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'How to Ruin a Child'


laRubiaBonita

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It is spot on. There's also an awesome article in Time, I think, from a few months back, about 'helicopter parents' along the same lines.

 

That's why boot camps work on kids. They grow up nowadays not having to work hard at anything, not having to earn what they get, not having to do chores, and getting instant gratification. Small wonder we rank about 30th in education - kids don't give a flip; they don't have to, everything is handed to them.

 

I remember a friend telling us 20 years ago that in his history class, he was no longer allowed to mark off for misspelling, as it would 'hurt the kids' psyches'. He was also not allowed to use red ink any more, nor have other kids grade each others' papers, as that might evoke embarrassment. I was horrified then; now it's common practice.

 

I give this country another 20 years before it implodes. Atlas Shrugged all over again.

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Disillusioned

Pretty sad. What would modern educators think of people like Ray Kroc and Walt Disney, two guys who failed at everything they did before Walt founded the Disney empire and Kroc bought the McDonald brothers out?

 

I think all these kids are being set up for the shock of their lives because without failure, they'll never learn the importance of devising Plan B. It's bad enough when college professors get pissed off at students who talk about becoming self-employed.

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its just the flip side of teaching going out of balance. Be it parental teachings or thru the education system.

 

It was found that beating a child into education is no different then OVERLY praising...neither have the affect necessary to create the skills necessary.

A beaten and trodden child will cringe at making mistakes , for the next blow is no less painful then the first.

Too much praise gives "false" sense of superiorness....

 

My son and his wife are teachers- they moderate and give proper instruction, guidance, drawing out the positives and challenging the need to reach and further the student. Never making the bar too high , creating perserverance...

Ultimately having the student think for themselves, when wrong..so be it. No shunning, but rather change course...find other ways...

 

I do beleive that encouragment can blossom and aide a young person, gosh knows they have it harder when most families are blended, most parents are working and more then anything they may have the material things but lack the guidance to make those independent decisions that are good ones to make. I disagree that todays kids have any less challenges....they still have to grow up and I know ALOT of adults that still havent learned that skill...

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Great article.. thanks for sharing this. IMO, to much pressure = failure in my mind. I don't push.. my kid's per say, I direct them and and give them the opportunity to come to their own conclusions.

 

Mea:)

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Disillusioned
It was found that beating a child into education is no different then OVERLY praising...neither have the affect necessary to create the skills necessary.

A beaten and trodden child will cringe at making mistakes , for the next blow is no less painful then the first.

 

Tell me about it! Most of the family members who raised me came of age during the Depression... they were taught to believe in the stick and the fist. They honestly believed that paddling a kid's butt would raise his IQ... but OTOH they had to be careful how much they did it, or else the kid would turn out "smuaht" ("smart" in Joizyspeak), and nothing turned the old folks green with envy like a kid who had more brains than they did.

 

My family also took the deprivation approach... I glumly watched as the juvenile delinquent boys down the street got the BB guns and the go-karts and they had all the fun in the world, but all I got were underwear and dorky-looking clothes. We had enough money to get me a BB gun and a go-kart, but my mother would screech and threaten me with a knife whenever I dared ask for those things (hey, parents don't need reasons).

 

Then she had the temerity to resent me when I chose to break the cycle by not fathering kids... she used to make this real pitiful face in an effort to make me feel sorry for her...

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pureinheart
i found this article interesting and i agree with some points.....

 

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will030410.php3

 

 

thoughts?

 

Hi LRB...I skimmed the article and got the jist of it...I agree with the high pressured environment...it's as if we've gone from one extreme to the other.

 

Not sure if the article stated this, although this is my opinion...let kids be kids. Give them balance and direction, encourage their strengths and help them with the weaknesses.

 

We've got one end of society wanting their kids to succeed at any cost, wanting the "prodigy child", and this sector can go to the extreme ridiculous...then we have the other end who could give a dam and the kids end up with no goal, dreams, nothing....balance mixed with wisdom, knowledge and understanding is the correct mixture for me:)

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pureinheart
It is spot on. There's also an awesome article in Time, I think, from a few months back, about 'helicopter parents' along the same lines.

 

That's why boot camps work on kids. They grow up nowadays not having to work hard at anything, not having to earn what they get, not having to do chores, and getting instant gratification. Small wonder we rank about 30th in education - kids don't give a flip; they don't have to, everything is handed to them.

 

I remember a friend telling us 20 years ago that in his history class, he was no longer allowed to mark off for misspelling, as it would 'hurt the kids' psyches'. He was also not allowed to use red ink any more, nor have other kids grade each others' papers, as that might evoke embarrassment. I was horrified then; now it's common practice.

 

I give this country another 20 years before it implodes. Atlas Shrugged all over again.

 

This is the case in America also...(bold)

 

OMG...it will hurt the psyches...Lord have mercy, and I mean that...

 

They mark off in red at the DMV when when taking the written test...sounds like the ducks need to be in a row:)...excellent reply BTW T:)

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Feelin Frisky

If it hasn't directly been covered on Penn and Teller "Bullshi+" it will be. It certainly falls under many categories they have tackled. Last night they covered the "self esteem" "industry". There were lots of people making money giving seminars and selling toys and junk to keep telling yourself you're number one. Like them I think they are number two from el torro.

 

What is at the heart of the problem is that the establishment knows there's something wrong but they don't know that they are the agents of what is wrong because their social development was completely neglected in the factory model system they went through. So they artificially put it upon the children to pump themselves up with empty BS instead of accepting responsibility to reform education to include formal social development by means of student orientation to and participation in shared authority. Rote memory and artificial self inflation do not a modern prepared individual make.

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pureinheart
Pretty sad. What would modern educators think of people like Ray Kroc and Walt Disney, two guys who failed at everything they did before Walt founded the Disney empire and Kroc bought the McDonald brothers out?

 

I think all these kids are being set up for the shock of their lives because without failure, they'll never learn the importance of devising Plan B. It's bad enough when college professors get pissed off at students who talk about becoming self-employed.

 

D, you stated this very well...I forget what I was listening to, although Einstein was listed too....hahahaha, he didn't start talking until the age of 3 and was ridiculed...Beethoven was another one...said he had no music ability or something like that (this on I know I have wrong, but he was told he was no good)...gotta love it huh D.

 

Failure is the greatest part of success IMO

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pureinheart
If it hasn't directly been covered on Penn and Teller "Bullshi+" it will be. It certainly falls under many categories they have tackled. Last night they covered the "self esteem" "industry". There were lots of people making money giving seminars and selling toys and junk to keep telling yourself you're number one. Like them I think they are number two from el torro.

 

What is at the heart of the problem is that the establishment knows there's something wrong but they don't know that they are the agents of what is wrong because their social development was completely neglected in the factory model system they went through. So they artificially put it upon the children to pump themselves up with empty BS instead of accepting responsibility to reform education to include formal social development by means of student orientation to and participation in shared authority. Rote memory and artificial self inflation do not a modern prepared individual make.

 

Bottom line right there FF...the almighty dollar.

 

Being a sixties baby...filled with rebellion:eek: (which there is some credit to the anti-establishment thing) and hard-headed as all hell...tell me I couldn't do something and see how hard I try to prove them wrong.

 

How many times have we seen the most successful people were told they "can't"...we all need a challenge, especially men IMO (I am old traditional in the chain of command...go figure sixties baby and all). I am not saying to tell a kid they can't, although I think telling them they can too much creates arrogance with no challenge.

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D, you stated this very well...I forget what I was listening to, although Einstein was listed too....hahahaha, he didn't start talking until the age of 3 and was ridiculed...Beethoven was another one...said he had no music ability or something like that (this on I know I have wrong, but he was told he was no good)...gotta love it huh D.

 

Failure is the greatest part of success IMO

My husband is literally brilliant - if he had gone to college, he'd have been unstoppable. But he didn't speak until he was three, either - not until he could speak in complete sentences.

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threebyfate
You guys started school at 7:30am? :eek:
That was weird to me too. Also weird is why any finger pointing is being put on early school hours, when earlier bedtimes could make up for it.

 

As far as the article in its entirety is concerned, extremism of any kind whether too strict or too indulgent, causes issues.

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Feelin Frisky
Bottom line right there FF...the almighty dollar.

 

Being a sixties baby...filled with rebellion:eek: (which there is some credit to the anti-establishment thing) and hard-headed as all hell...tell me I couldn't do something and see how hard I try to prove them wrong.

 

How many times have we seen the most successful people were told they "can't"...we all need a challenge, especially men IMO (I am old traditional in the chain of command...go figure sixties baby and all). I am not saying to tell a kid they can't, although I think telling them they can too much creates arrogance with no challenge.

 

I'm cut from similar stock. I feel though about this "I'm number one" (for no other reason than I am continually urged to say so) crapolla that the dynamics of esteem and motivation are actually much simpler than pushes to pump one's self up coming down to them from the "authority". What really speaks is action, not words. And it is the action of those responsible for a child that makes the difference. Nothing need be really said about telling yourself rah-rah I'm number one.

 

There is much more capital along those lines by showing a child that his or her thoughts and feelings matter to someone, that being at least the parent. The dynamic doesn't have to be told--it is shown by acts of caring and encouragement to share just what the child does think and wonder about. Otherwise the neglect the parent shows by not investing time in the child's personal identity development just casts the child into an unarticulated world of defacto competition where ranking is given so much impetus. Thus the knee jerk attempt by society is to focus on telling kids to tell themselves that they are number one without even addressing the reality that there is a ranking system and it can be supplanted by something else. It gives them no orientation to anything but rank by emphasizing self rank at no cost of earning distinction.

 

A child whose parents take the time to allow the child to express the truth rather than acquiescing to threat of consequence for not doing what they are told, gives a believable sign that who they are does matter and that life is not just a chain or command and a game of competition--it is one of cooperation and negotiation as well or more.

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TheBigQuestion

I agree 100%. This is exactly what I was talking about in another thread, where I tried to explain that the other side of this trend involves excessive paranoia and sheltering, and in which overzealous parents chimed in and completely missed my point. Overparenting is bad, and I'm thankful that I just missed the cut-off where this actually became an epidemic (I got a lot of "You're the best kid ever" type stuff from extended family. My parents generally kept me far more grounded). Nonetheless, a lot of people my age clearly suffered from some of these consequences. There is really nothing good that can come from teaching kids that they're number 1 all the time, and hovering over them constantly so that they don't get any scraped knees.

 

While it's not a good idea to be excessively harsh on children who fail at a certain endeavor, we are going to suffer TERRIBLY as a society if we continue to reward mediocrity starting from childhood. That's not to say, however, that American society doesn't already reward mediocrity at every age and being "average." There's a reason America started going downhill in terms of intelligence and scientific accomplishment. Every standardized test and school curriculum has been dumbed down (although curiously, the amount of homework being given has increased dramatically and free "play time" has plummeted), and where did this all begin? The sloppy, overindulgent, and spoiled Baby Boomers that raised the equally slovenly and entitled Generation X-ers.

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I am a Baby Boomer, and I was not sloppy, overindulgent, OR spoiled, lol. Any my DD19 is amazing. She reads nonfiction for fun, she's teaching herself Italian, her favorite foods are salad and sushi. ;)

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bentnotbroken
I am a Baby Boomer, and I was not sloppy, overindulgent, OR spoiled, lol. Any my DD19 is amazing. She reads nonfiction for fun, she's teaching herself Italian, her favorite foods are salad and sushi. ;)

 

 

Yup! I agree with you.

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If you really want to ruin a child, then force him or her into a normative/popularly-defined gender role.

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Jumping rope without rope???? Whatever next?

Thats..... preposterous.

 

I

 

I remember a friend telling us 20 years ago that in his history class, he was no longer allowed to mark off for misspelling, as it would 'hurt the kids' psyches'. He was also not allowed to use red ink any more, nor have other kids grade each others' papers, as that might evoke embarrassment. I was horrified then; now it's common practice. .

 

I have heard of this happening. But as I write this, my teacher husband is marking (and failing) chemistry papers with a red pen. He is lamenting the new marking system that sounds far more complicated than one tick= one mark.

 

There were lots of people making money giving seminars and selling toys and junk to keep telling yourself you're number one. Like them I think they are number two from el torro.

.

 

I am a new parent, and we are BOMBARDED with so many gadgets, toys, devices etc etc that will help us be a more stimulating, engaging, interesting, fun, safe, smart, healthy, organic, green, nuturing, caring parent.

 

The baby food/toys/safety/clothing industry must be worth billions of dollars, and feeding parents insecurities and neuroses are parenting magazines, parenting classes etc etc etc. you must do this/ that to ensure your childs successful mental and physical development. Nuture their creativity. Make sure they eat all the colours of the rainbow.

 

Its enough to make your head hurt and as she grows there is more and more stuff bombarding me- my daughter doesn't watch TV yet and isn't at school imagine how bad its going to get then!

 

Granted, some of the information is valuable. Some things are helpful (safety catches, fireguards) some toys are great, some food (pouches you can heat in a mug of hot water) is convenient for when you are on the go.

 

In general- the biggest lesson I have learned in my short time as a parent is to RELAX.

 

My daughters favourite toys right now are a $2 picture book that has a picture of a puppy on the front and an empty tissue box that has a pair of socks and a couple of wooden blocks in it.

Her favourite food is toast. (any kind)

 

She is a pretty chilled out little girl so far, and observing other parents and children has made me realise-

-there aren't that many things you can do to speed up basic developmental stages (walking, crawling, etc) Kids will do that when they are ready.

-competitive parenting (my kid is smarter than yours) just makes you look like a twit

and

 

-SOMEBODY has to be last. Maybe that person will be first at something else, maybe they will always be in the middle, but overanalysing it to the point where KIDS JUMP ROPE WITHOUT ROPES is just... ridiculous.

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I always give books when I have to give a kid a present. Usually, I'm the only one doing so. When I was raising DD19, I told her that the one thing I would always buy her was books. Now she loves to read and is a stellar college student.

 

I also read to her every night at bed for the first 12 years of her life. After that, it wasn't 'cool' any more, lol.

 

My mom used to tell me that we were spoiling her with too many toys, and she was right. The only issue my DD19 has is that she doesn't value her stuff, cos she always had so much. So I would hold back on the toys if I were you - and make sure half of them are the old-fashioned plain kind like a truck or a doll, where she has to use her imagination. Kids don't get enough opportunity to just use their imagination any more. And when she's older, send her outside a lot, to learn how to occupy herself on her own.

 

We had a party once, and the teenagers were really loud, so I told them to go outside, and one of them said 'Outside? What are we supposed to do outside?' I just laughed and pushed them out. And they had a great time, just lounging around and talking, instead of using the tv and computer. Some of them had never even done that. So sad.

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Thanks for the advice. As a kid I spent half my life outside, the other half I spent inside with my nose in a book!

 

A new favourite toy we have found this morning is a clear plastic container and we play at looking at eachother through it.

 

Simple things huh!

 

We also read every day, and books seem to be a big hit with her now so will keep encouraging that.

 

Her first birthday is coming up, and I think we will ask that everyone either buy books or summer clothes, as she really doesn't need flashy toys that will take up more space- she gets just as much enjoyment out of simple stuff.

 

Being conscious of this stuff now is good, but I do worry about how things will change once there are more outside influences, such as school peers etc. Although most of my close friends with children the same age do seem to have similar attitudes at this stage.

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