A Question About Single Dads and Their Kids

[ADF]

I used to work at a social service agency that dealt with child custody issues, among other things. During my time there, I was struck by something and I wanted to know what other people thought about it.

 

Many of our clients were single mothers. Some had amicable relationships with the fathers of their children, others did not. What was strange was that the relationships of the fathers with their children seemed to depend almost entirely their relationships with the mothers.

 

If the mother and father were still together, or if they had broken up but remained friendly, things were usually good. The men paid support. They spent time with their kids. They tended to act like involved fathers.

 

However, as soon as a conflict erupted between the father and the mother, the men would just disappear. Most would stop paying support (which is where my agency stepped in). They would no longer visit their children, call them, or interact with them in any way. This was only the pattern with men who had never been married to the mothers. Divorced men usually kept in touch with their children regardless of how they felt about the mothers. But the never-married fathers seemed to have no actual parent-child relationship with their kids at all. It was as if their relationships with their kids were totally dependent on their relationships with the mothers.

 

I thought this was very strange, and wondered why it might be.

[White Flower]

I used to work at a social service agency that dealt with child custody issues, among other things. During my time there, I was struck by something and I wanted to know what other people thought about it.

 

Many of our clients were single mothers. Some had amicable relationships with the fathers of their children, others did not. What was strange was that the relationships of the fathers with their children seemed to depend almost entirely their relationships with the mothers.

 

If the mother and father were still together, or if they had broken up but remained friendly, things were usually good. The men paid support. They spent time with their kids. They tended to act like involved fathers.

 

However, as soon as a conflict erupted between the father and the mother, the men would just disappear. Most would stop paying support (which is where my agency stepped in). They would no longer visit their children, call them, or interact with them in any way. This was only the pattern with men who had never been married to the mothers. Divorced men usually kept in touch with their children regardless of how they felt about the mothers. But the never-married fathers seemed to have no actual parent-child relationship with their kids at all. It was as if their relationships with their kids were totally dependent on their relationships with the mothers.

 

I thought this was very strange, and wondered why it might be.

Maybe if the father was willing to 'man up' and marry her it was indicative of his character in 'manning up' and sticking through the rest of the child's life? Perhaps the act of marrying a woman belies a strength of character within the man that is demonstrated throughout life?

 

I used to take care of children and sometimes I would get single mothers who partook in programs that would help them get back on their feet. I saw a lot of what you saw.

[delnoire]

Well I am a single father, never married to my daughter's mother, so I guess I am the kind of guy you are wondering about.

I never really thought about it before, but yes, you are exactly right, in my particular case anyways. When I am getting along with my ex, I tend to see my daughter much more regularly. Every now and then my ex and I will have a spat and then I will go weeks without even talking to my daughter, which is odd since its not her that I am fighting with.

 

If you want to get down to the root of it.....hmm.....I mean, thats a very complicated question. Probably has something to do with the fact that men just aren't designed by nature to really 'parent' and 'nurture' if you get my meaning. Since the father is assuming a role he biologically isn't suited for, the smallest things, like a falling out with the mother, can make him elusive and indifferent towards the child.

 

As for me personally, my ex intimidates the heck out of me. As a female, but especially as a mother. Between the two of us she is much more aggressive and assertive than me, I was always the more passive one, so it makes sense that she usually dictates the relationship that I have with my daughter. Thats just the personal dynamics of how our relationship always worked, even when we were a couple. If I do or say something to make my ex angry, I stay away and out of sight until she's cooled off, and that usually means being distant from my daughter as well since thats who she lives with, which is an unfortunate side-effect, but it happens.

 

So my honest guess, is intimidation. Even though there are tons and tons of great fathers all over the world, men in general (in my opinion) don't truly comprehend what it is to nurture their own children the way mothers do and what they can't understand, they fear. When a woman (their ex) stops being just a woman, but a mother right before their eyes, they get intimidated. Guys don't like showing weakness, so if they fight with the ex, they seperate themselves from the entire situation, mother and child, because its easier than admitting they are scared of being a real parent. Its like they are little boys who never grew up all the way.

 

Just my two cents

[White Flower]

It sounds like you have a great sense of self-awareness. Understanding the dynamics of who you are and who your ex is is key to overcoming the intimidation; thus bridging the gap in your parenting styles. Have you ever asked her how she feels about your backing off and not coming back around until she (or the sitch) has cooled off? Because in the end, as a nurturing parent, she must know the time and distance hurts the very child she is nurturing.

 

Too, your awareness of how this hurts your child makes YOU the nurturing parent, believe it or not. If you can muster up the boldness, you should strike up the conversation with your ex and let her know you think the long stretches between visits hurts your child and you would like to put an end to the nonsense for her sake.

 

I am in a similar sitch with my ex but I waited 20 plus years to D him so my kids wouldn't be young and defenseless against him. Two of my kids are teens and one is 21. They all know how to stand up for themselves pretty well now so I don't need to involve myself any longer.

 

Best of luck in raising your daughter. I have a feeling your insight into the dynamics of the R you share with her mother will benefit your daughter in the end.

[Peaceful Guy]

first off, i get the sense that you are a very nice person and i think it was brave of you to respond with your story. that said, i noticed a couple things.. just ideas.

 

 

i think that this..

...my ex intimidates the heck out of me. As a female, but especially as a mother. Between the two of us she is much more aggressive and assertive than me, I was always the more passive one, so it makes sense that she usually dictates the relationship that I have with my daughter.

 

leads to you feeling like this..

...the fact that men just aren't designed by nature to really 'parent' and 'nurture' if you get my meaning. Since the father is assuming a role he biologically isn't suited for...

 

but, its not really true. i hope you believe me..

[sally4sara]

I don't think this is a male phenomenon. My ex roomie was a single dad. He and the mother never married. She was going to abort, but he offered to take the kid. He gave her the open option of being an active mother or walking away entirely. I fully believe the only reason she had any effort as a mother was due to her worry of how she would be seen by others. No amount of good or bad association with my roomie, resulted in her increase of decrease of interest in their son. The only time she grew more invested was when he started building a steady relationship with his now wife. I think the mother began worrying about her efforts being compared to the step mother's efforts or that her son would prefer his step mother.

Men are not less capable of nurturing a child. I can see it being a matter of maturity and assertiveness but not one of gender. My ex room mate started a support group for other single fathers with primary custody. There are a couple things I have noticed that seem similar in most situations for them:

 

1. The mothers that don't have primary custody only seem to be involved at all due to what people would think of them if they did what they wanted and just disappeared. I speculate that their waffling as mothers causes more harm than if they just walked off for good. Perhaps even more harm than if they were fathers because of how much more harshly we view uninvolved mothers and how more accepting we are on uninvolved fathers. the kids pick up on this and are more disturbed by their lack in their mother.

 

2. The relationship they have with their kid's mom is highly effected by both adults romantic relationships. If the dad takes on a GF or wife, he becomes less tolerant of his kids bio mom. On top of that, the fathers who have primary custody have to worry about what happens if the kid's bio mom has success within her new relationship - will she try to take custody away and replace them with the new guy? As well if the bio mom takes on a BF or husband, she often becomes even less involved in parenting the kid she only has secondary custody of causing all the concerns the kid's bio dad has to flare up even worse. Suddenly, any good associations the two bio parents once had becomes tense again.

[Tayla]

Partial Quote by ADF:"I thought this was very strange, and wondered why it might be."

 

Answer: IT can be simply geographically where you were placed to serve the public. Some folks simply do not make adequate parental decisions that serve the childs interest. Be they male or female.

[Tayla]

Sorry I didnt read some of the other responses, maybe I will say this and let it be.

1: Where is the FACTS that ALL Women make great nurturing parents? Shall I name Sybils Mom, who tortured her? OR how about the women who dump there kids in garbage cans because they suffer PPD.? Yeah they are just so nurturing.

2: And Dads, Gosh not one of them can be nurturing by providing a roof (shelter), teaching them how to ride a bike, fix a car...yeah those arent at all nurturing things...

I seriously hope some folks re-consider the overgeneralized opinion about Ladies and Men. Some Ladies (and its been openly discussed) have chosen NOT to have kids because they know they aren't nurturing. Nothing wrong with that I hope. Or Guys who make the decision to be a decent parent only to be thwarted by the *social* stigma if they are supportive or nurturing to their kids, its just so not acceptable?

 

A person only has the UPPER hand if you permit it. That is the best I can say to the one poster. Speak up, stand up and wise up when it comes to the parent who thinks they hold the cards...they dont. BOTH parents have equal say. How can a child look up to both parents if the one is always knocking the other one down? THink about it.

[delnoire]

 

A person only has the UPPER hand if you permit it. That is the best I can say to the one poster. Speak up, stand up and wise up when it comes to the parent who thinks they hold the cards...they dont. BOTH parents have equal say. How can a child look up to both parents if the one is always knocking the other one down? THink about it.

 

 

I suppose you are talking to me. My ex having the upper hand has nothing to do with MY permitting it. She's the custodial parent, she has full custody. I don't have equal say. Not even close. The courts decided that, not me. If she wanted, she could probably just keep me from seeing my daughter permanently, so its not exactly wise for me to be standing up to her at every little argument. She does in fact hold all the cards, and I imgaine this is the case with most of the single mothers and fathers in the original posters first post. I think you have an idealized perception of what co-parenting is, which is very far removed from the sometimes brutal reality of it.

 

And I was careful to say in my first post that this was just MY OPINION, based on my own situation. I did this because I just knew someone would get on here and point out how some women are not nurturing and some guys are great fathers. Yes, yes. We know, we know. However in my opinion, in cases where the parents were never married, and where both parents are probably pretty young (which was what the op was originally addressing) the mothers are usually the more nuturing, responsible of the two parents and the fathers in these particular circumstancees are still usually pretty immature and irresponsible, afraid of taking on the heavy responsibility of parenting.

 

What's that? You know ten young single dads who are totally awesome parents? Great. And you know twenty young single moms who suck at nuturing? I don't doubt it at all.

 

There. I think we understand each other perfectly now.

[Stung]

It's my understanding that this is a genuine phenomenon, statistically, fathers tending to take less responsibility for their offspring than the mothers, especially among the young. I'm not sure that marriage really has that much to do with it...I've known of many divorced deadbeat dads, sadly. As stated, some believe it's genetic in males; my own belief is that it's also societal and has to do with low cultural expectations, although I do agree that women tend to be more biologically/hormonally hooked up to their children in the beginning, which can make it easier for the father to take a step back if that's his inclination.

 

As has been pointed out however it's certainly not universal, thankfully. My husband was a single dad when I met him, never married. He and his ex gf weren't on great terms by any means, in fact she often made him miserable, but they have always been civil to one another and they came to a custody agreement out of court. He had his daughter 1/3 of every week when she was younger and he paid her mom generous child support; he also took her on holidays every year, she still remembers going to Japan when she was 2. Now that she is a bit older and he has more family support (i.e. me) we have her 1/2 of every week, and still pay because he makes a lot more than his ex gf does and we want his daughter to be comfortably cared for in both of her homes. When we were living together but not yet married and his ex started talking about moving to another state, he told her he would take her to court and get an injunction to force her to stay where she was, if necessary, or else petition for full custody. She decided to stay where she was.

 

Knowing that he was devoted to and responsible for his daughter, NOT because anybody made him be, was one of the qualities that initially made him so attractive to me. He's maybe not the world's most perfect dad, but he cares and he puts his time in as well as his money, and I liked that about him right away.

[ADF]

Partial Quote by ADF:"I thought this was very strange, and wondered why it might be."

 

Answer: IT can be simply geographically where you were placed to serve the public. Some folks simply do not make adequate parental decisions that serve the childs interest. Be they male or female.

 

No, I don't think it has much to do with geography. It does have a lot to do with gender, however. Consider that nationwide, only about 11% of single parents are male.

[sally4sara]

No, I don't think it has much to do with geography. It does have a lot to do with gender, however. Consider that nationwide, only about 11% of single parents are male.

 

I do not know of information that biologically supports a belief of men being genetically less capable of being a primary caregiver to their own or any other children. It is just as easy to say certain personalities are less capable of caring for children.

I can see how our societal norms and a desire to see a conformity to them would cause one gender to be given less support if their choices were not "normal". We get our prescribed gender role and we move through life with it being our guide. When one doesn't follow their guide, they see more obstacles as they move through their life.

To tell men they must go out and be the money earner rather than a care giver and then when they do, you say "See? You are just not as biologically inclined as a woman to be the primary care giver to a child" is an unfair tactic.