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10 year old "playing" with visitation


tinktronik

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So my 3 boys are moving to Virginia with their Dad, he's military and transferring there. I think this is a very good move for the boys as they will have some interesting places to visit while there. It looks like Dad will be there for 6-7 months for sure and after then he'll find out where he will be for the next few years.

 

In the last 6 years they have had 4 moves. My oldest insists that I should move around after Dad because Nana [Dad's mom] does it. I understand that she does this at great cost, but she is stabilized by her son's support of her and lives with him a good deal of the time, the two of us have also supported her financially much of the time by paying her to watch the kids before and after school.

 

I fly to wherever they are every 4-6 weeks and have them alternating holidays and all summer. I thought we had all adjusted okay to this. I moved o TX after the divorce because Dad's base station will basically be east coast or west coast [as long as he's in the states] and living here, I am halfway to the kids already, no matter where hey are.

 

I just got back from a visit this past weekend and my 10 year old told me that unless I move to Virginia, he won't come to my house for summer visits anymore. I have explained to him how I can't follow Dad around whenever he transfers from state to state because I wouldn't be stable enough doing that to do what I need to do for him and his brothers. I told him that no matter what he has to come to visit me because it would break my heart if he didn't.

 

I can't tell my 10 year old that my biggest reasons for not living across town are that his father already screws with my visitation and that when we did live across town I got to see them less than I do flying around the country because there was more stress between their Dad and me and Dad withheld whatever he on paper did not HAVE to give. Dad has been telling him that if I lived in town that I could have hem every weekend and some after school. But I know from experience that this would not be the case.

 

How do I handle this whole thing?

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I just got back from a visit this past weekend

How do I handle this whole thing?

 

Hi,

 

Just forget about it for now and rejoice on the memories of the visit.

 

When the time comes you will know what to do.

 

Perhaps by then your ex will know where he will be permanently and that will help you decide.

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Hi,

 

Just forget about it for now and rejoice on the memories of the visit.

 

When the time comes you will know what to do.

 

Perhaps by then your ex will know where he will be permanently and that will help you decide.

 

There really isn't a decision to move where dad will be. It just is not realistic and will create too much stress for all involved, including the boys. The question is how do I delicately get it across to my 10 year old that:

 

1) He has to visit

2) I love him no matter where we all are [i am busting my @ss to fly around the country, manage a business, and support all of us financially; all for him and his brothers. ]

3) That the thought that he would not want to come anymore terrifies me.

 

I just don't know how to get across to him that I am doing my best here and that it is not realistic for me to move every 6 months.

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The question is how do I delicately get it across to my 10 year old that:

 

1) He has to visit

2) I love him no matter where we all are [i am busting my @ss to fly around the country, manage a business, and support all of us financially; all for him and his brothers. ]

3) That the thought that he would not want to come anymore terrifies me.

 

I just don't know how to get across to him that I am doing my best here and that it is not realistic for me to move every 6 months.

 

Well, don't worry about it for now.

 

It may be that by the time the summer comes he will be more than willing to visit you.

 

For a 10 year old that is ages away and he may change his mind.

 

It may be also that he is reluctant to go so you are going to have to respect that.

 

If you force him he might resent you later for that. He might blame you for not having fun or anything that is not pleasant.

 

The right thing to do in this case is let him decide and you figure your way around it.

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tink, children understand more than we sometimes give them credit for being able to understand.

 

Leaving out the part about their father and his issues, why not just explain to him that in order to live which includes eating and being able to afford a place to sleep, people have to work and jobs aren't plentiful, especially in this economy. As well, in order for you to be able to afford to feed everyone, buy toys and provide entertainment (really focus on the fun things that you do together or that they enjoy), you can't follow them around the country.

 

I would also say to him that no matter what, you'll always love him and be his mother. That you hope he can come to terms with practical matters like earning a living, that you would hate to think that he would give up the opportunities to be together, due to unreasonable anger.

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Wow I feel your pain. As a mother it is the worst feeling in the world to be rejected by your child. In this case I am glad you chose to come to THIS board as opposed to others out there where people will call you a bad mother, ask intervening questions and wonder why you don't have school year custody. Well, that's what they do to me :)

 

I have three sons. One baby home here with my husband who is my husbands and mine. My other two, six and three, live with their father for the school year in another, us for the summer. It's hard enough for me to become "used to" this situation since it's brand new. But their father has been screwing with my visitations, interfering with their relationship with me, going against the custody agreement and altering my time with them. Any time I get is interrupted too. He refuses to call me or update me about them at all, to speak to me about them, to tell me what's going on. And of corse this started when his girlfriend and her kids moved into his house. She put a stop to all his communication with me, resulting in damaging my relationship with my kids because she controls when I can and cant call or see them.

 

Anyway, didn't want to make this about "me", but I wanted to tell you you're not alone either. My son tells me from time to time that he likes daddy's better because there's other kids. He will say daddy's house is bigger, he has a better TV. Then when I see him he does a 180 and cries to come home with me. He changes his mind a lot. BUt he doesn't understand and I can't tell him things like, "Well your daddy is starving you, your daddy isnt taking care of you mentally, emotionally, or hygenically. I cant tell him his daddy is anti-social and refuses to co-parent, or that we can't just move closer to daddy because that area is poor, the economy especially that state is baad and we would have to file for bankrupcy, we have too bad credit, we've been looking and cant find any jobs at all there. I cant tell him that where we live is so much better for him cause he's six, how's he going to understand that? I dont want to badmouth daddy (btw my ex told my kids I abandoned them and he and the girlfriend talk bad about me to them and in front of them all the time)...

 

Here's some things you CAN do!

 

A lot of attorneys give free legal consultation. You can find out what your rights are as far as visitation. Maybe enforce your visitations, web cam sessions, phone calls ect. Although lawyers are rediculously expensive there is legal aid but you have to make under a certain $$.

 

Write letters, sent your son things he'd like. A new video game perhaps.

 

I've found a lot of support in church and through prayer.

 

Reading that book, "Bringing up Boys"

 

Knowing in your heart your son loves you. And making sure you let him know you are trying your hardest to be a part of his life even when he's far away. That you think of him every day and you are propd of him and his independance (even though he's only ten!) Tell him you are there for him whenever he needs you and to never be scared to want to talk to you about anything.

 

Besides that, it's the winter. He probably has a comfortable position in life right now and trust me he will be missing you by the summer :). Maybe you can secretly use this time to save up for a fun vacation with him, or summer things he'll enjoy.

 

 

I don't think he meant to hurt your feelings purposely.

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tink, children understand more than we sometimes give them credit for being able to understand.

 

Leaving out the part about their father and his issues, why not just explain to him that in order to live which includes eating and being able to afford a place to sleep, people have to work and jobs aren't plentiful, especially in this economy. As well, in order for you to be able to afford to feed everyone, buy toys and provide entertainment (really focus on the fun things that you do together or that they enjoy), you can't follow them around the country.

 

I would also say to him that no matter what, you'll always love him and be his mother. That you hope he can come to terms with practical matters like earning a living, that you would hate to think that he would give up the opportunities to be together, due to unreasonable anger.

 

Well said TBF. I think I will actually print out your post and read it over a bit so that I can word it right when I say it to him. I wish it was feasible for me to live down the street from him and everybody got along, but it just isn't. I think this is all a "how much do you love me challenge." He's also at an age where he is trying to exert some control in his life and I would imagine the move is scary for him.

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I wish it was feasible for me to live down the street from him and everybody got along, but it just isn't. I think this is all a "how much do you love me challenge." He's also at an age where he is trying to exert some control in his life and I would imagine the move is scary for him.
What you say makes sense, as well with most ten year olds that I've known, the world still revolves around him to a degree, especially his parents. If he's afraid, he'll want his security blanket with him. But he's at the age where he's also capable of understanding practical issues, particularly if it's put to him in the way of how actions WILL impact on his life/fun.

 

Oh, forgot one thing. I wouldn't stress the "must see me", avoiding pressure of that type. He has to buy into seeing you, otherwise, he'll resent it, which means it will fester. After you've had the talk with him, let him come to terms with it, especially after he leaves and is missing you.

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Wow I feel your pain. As a mother it is the worst feeling in the world to be rejected by your child. In this case I am glad you chose to come to THIS board as opposed to others out there where people will call you a bad mother, ask intervening questions and wonder why you don't have school year custody. Well, that's what they do to me :)

 

I have three sons. One baby home here with my husband who is my husbands and mine. My other two, six and three, live with their father for the school year in another, us for the summer. It's hard enough for me to become "used to" this situation since it's brand new. But their father has been screwing with my visitations, interfering with their relationship with me, going against the custody agreement and altering my time with them. Any time I get is interrupted too. He refuses to call me or update me about them at all, to speak to me about them, to tell me what's going on. And of corse this started when his girlfriend and her kids moved into his house. She put a stop to all his communication with me, resulting in damaging my relationship with my kids because she controls when I can and cant call or see them.

 

Anyway, didn't want to make this about "me", but I wanted to tell you you're not alone either. My son tells me from time to time that he likes daddy's better because there's other kids. He will say daddy's house is bigger, he has a better TV. Then when I see him he does a 180 and cries to come home with me. He changes his mind a lot. BUt he doesn't understand and I can't tell him things like, "Well your daddy is starving you, your daddy isnt taking care of you mentally, emotionally, or hygenically. I cant tell him his daddy is anti-social and refuses to co-parent, or that we can't just move closer to daddy because that area is poor, the economy especially that state is baad and we would have to file for bankrupcy, we have too bad credit, we've been looking and cant find any jobs at all there. I cant tell him that where we live is so much better for him cause he's six, how's he going to understand that? I dont want to badmouth daddy (btw my ex told my kids I abandoned them and he and the girlfriend talk bad about me to them and in front of them all the time)...

 

Here's some things you CAN do!

 

A lot of attorneys give free legal consultation. You can find out what your rights are as far as visitation. Maybe enforce your visitations, web cam sessions, phone calls ect. Although lawyers are rediculously expensive there is legal aid but you have to make under a certain $$.

 

Write letters, sent your son things he'd like. A new video game perhaps.

 

I've found a lot of support in church and through prayer.

 

Reading that book, "Bringing up Boys"

 

Knowing in your heart your son loves you. And making sure you let him know you are trying your hardest to be a part of his life even when he's far away. That you think of him every day and you are propd of him and his independance (even though he's only ten!) Tell him you are there for him whenever he needs you and to never be scared to want to talk to you about anything.

 

Besides that, it's the winter. He probably has a comfortable position in life right now and trust me he will be missing you by the summer :). Maybe you can secretly use this time to save up for a fun vacation with him, or summer things he'll enjoy.

 

 

I don't think he meant to hurt your feelings purposely.

 

Thanks for your post. It is very strange to be a non-custodial mom. People look at you like you must be the worst mother ever when you don't have your kids full time, or that there is something abnormal if you haven't thrown yourself from a bridge from the anguish of being away from your children. I don't think you ever feel "right" without them but you do adjust eventually. It's been about 8 years now for me.

 

It's not so much that my ex screws with the legal visitation, he follows it to the letter. But he will do things like when I give him the dates I am coming will say "Oh joy! Can you come for an extra 2 days early so me and my wife can go do X thing?" and when I confirm and show up 2 days early [after driving 1300 miles and juggling 1000 business commitments to make it all work] he has made other arrangements and I am sitting 1300 miles away from home twiddling my thumbs waiting until the weekend. For 2 years now on my birthday when I have showed up he has re-arranged the kids extra curricular activities to fall on my birthday [they had both times been scheduled for a different day] so that instead of celebrating my birthday, I am tied up running he kids to and fro literally all day and spending the day across the room from my ex who is attending [part of the arrangement is that the kids must make all extra curricular when with either of us]. Or that the cell phone mins. are only free after 9 his time [when the kids are gearing down for bed] so I have to call then, but it is either 11 or 1 am where I am. Just really dumb stuff. But in the main, I get every min. of actual court alloted visitation.

 

I don't think he wanted to hurt my feelings either, I think he is just asserting himself. And your right, by summer he will be itching for mom time. I really want to nip this in the bud though because I know a lot of times by 14 or so teens are so involved in their own lives that they don't want to visit with the secondary parent and that just isn't an option. The time that he spends with me is so short and so precious for both of us, but he may not realize that until he is an adult. But the time he spends with me, as well as his dad, helps him map a huge part of who he is, thus it is imperative.

 

I guess this too set off a worry about if his Dad will allow him in his teens to try to blow off visits with me, my gut says yes. But I guess I should just worry about that then.

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What you say makes sense, as well with most ten year olds that I've known, the world still revolves around him to a degree, especially his parents. If he's afraid, he'll want his security blanket with him. But he's at the age where he's also capable of understanding practical issues, particularly if it's put to him in the way of how actions WILL impact on his life/fun.

 

Oh, forgot one thing. I wouldn't stress the "must see me", avoiding pressure of that type. He has to buy into seeing you, otherwise, he'll resent it, which means it will fester. After you've had the talk with him, let him come to terms with it, especially after he leaves and is missing you.

 

I agree. But how do I do this? He does and will have to come and visit me even if he does not want to. My fear is that his dad is planting this in his head and I hear what sounds like a lot of "repeated" undermining statements from him.

 

I do fun stuff, we do vacations and the whole gambit but I have to maintain while he is with me as well. He really resents that I have to work, even though I am at home with him, he resents it terribly. My younger two are much more accepting that while we have lots of fun time, there has to be some down-time too. He has begun to hit puberty as well which I think has created a lot of these push-pull issues [i'm told they are across the board and not just with me]. Maybe this is all just unfamiliar teen territory for me.

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I agree. But how do I do this? He does and will have to come and visit me even if he does not want to. My fear is that his dad is planting this in his head and I hear what sounds like a lot of "repeated" undermining statements from him.

 

I do fun stuff, we do vacations and the whole gambit but I have to maintain while he is with me as well. He really resents that I have to work, even though I am at home with him, he resents it terribly. My younger two are much more accepting that while we have lots of fun time, there has to be some down-time too. He has begun to hit puberty as well which I think has created a lot of these push-pull issues [i'm told they are across the board and not just with me]. Maybe this is all just unfamiliar teen territory for me.

tink, how is his life structured, with his father? Is there a stay-at-home woman, involved?
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tink, how is his life structured, with his father? Is there a stay-at-home woman, involved?

 

Nana stayed at home for years with him and step-mom worked. But in the last year [about 15 months ago] Nana has had to get her own place and find work. I run a business from home with my spouse, so we are always home. This last summer was rough though because we had to cut back on employees and dedicate a lot of overtime due to the economy; this meant more time spent having to occupy himself and a lot of time pushing us to spend it with him. Things are back to normal now and holding, so the hope is that next summer we will get back to the norm.

 

As to structure with dad, it is school on school days, followed by after school program, until 7pm or so. Then diner and off to bed. Weekends, they usually have an extra-curricular that Dad attends, and then the rest of the weekend with Nana.

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Nana stayed at home for years with him and step-mom worked. But in the last year [about 15 months ago] Nana has had to get her own place and find work. I run a business from home with my spouse, so we are always home. This last summer was rough though because we had to cut back on employees and dedicate a lot of overtime due to the economy; this meant more time spent having to occupy himself and a lot of time pushing us to spend it with him. Things are back to normal now and holding, so the hope is that next summer we will get back to the norm.

 

As to structure with dad, it is school on school days, followed by after school program, until 7pm or so. Then diner and off to bed. Weekends, they usually have an extra-curricular that Dad attends, and then the rest of the weekend with Nana.

Okay, then, he's using double-standards on you. I'm not suggesting that you put his father down in any way but I would illustrate the comparison. Ask him why it's necessary for his father, stepmother and Nana to all work. Does this mean they also don't love him enough or is it that life's tough right now to make a living enough to feed and cloth everyone?

 

"I love you and your brothers more than anything or anybody else. I would love more than anything, to spend 24/7 being with you. But how will we eat, where will we sleep, how can we afford any toys or going out to [insert fun things]? If you look at your life with your father, stepmum and Nana, how do they afford to feed, cloth and entertain everyone? If you think about it, they also work long hours. This doesn't mean they also don't love you enough.

 

I'm talking to you like as if you're an adult. I know you're capable of understanding what I'm trying to say. But no matter what, I will always love you and would miss you dearly, if we couldn't spend any time together."

 

Throw in some hugs and kisses, so he understands how much you care, if not in words.

 

Then let him absorb, buy in or not, especially over the passage of time between visits.

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Ask him why it's necessary for his father, stepmother and Nana to all work. Does this mean they also don't love him enough or is it that life's tough right now to make a living enough to feed and cloth everyone?

 

Is not that.

 

I kind of like when my son goes to visit his father in Las Vegas..

 

He says that he gets bored to tears because he doesn't get to be with the father because the father is working all the time (that's the point of going), and there is nothing for him to do there: no friends, gf, his comp, etc.

 

My son says that it's no point going there for the little he gets to spend with the father and that travelling is an inconvenience.

 

He'd go all the time when he was little though, say 7 or 8, but as he got older he started refusing to go and nobody forced him.

 

He will be going next Tuesday for Thanksgiving God willing.

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Ariadne, I understand where you're coming from and have already addressed that issue, in that the world doesn't revolve around children and the sooner they learn it, the better for their own coping skills in life. They have to understand that to get, you have to give too and that your parents can't always be there to entertain you because they also need to make a living, so they can afford to feed and entertain you. It's got to be the most difficult but the easiest life lesson you can teach your children.

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Ariadne, I understand where you're coming from and have already addressed that issue, in that the world doesn't revolve around children and the sooner they learn it, the better for their own coping skills in life. They have to understand that to get, you have to give too and that your parents can't always be there to entertain you because they also need to make a living, so they can afford to feed and entertain you. It's got to be the most difficult but the easiest life lesson you can teach your children.

 

I think you are missing the point.

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Is not that.

 

I kind of like when my son goes to visit his father in Las Vegas..

 

He says that he gets bored to tears because he doesn't get to be with the father because the father is working all the time (that's the point of going), and there is nothing for him to do there: no friends, gf, his comp, etc.

 

My son says that it's no point going there for the little he gets to spend with the father and that travelling is an inconvenience.

 

He'd go all the time when he was little though, say 7 or 8, but as he got older he started refusing to go and nobody forced him.

 

He will be going next Tuesday for Thanksgiving God willing.

 

A the issue is that my 10 year old is trying to force me to do something he wants me to do by threatening something he thinks is important to me. For all the work I do during the summer, I am present every single moment that my children are here. At Dad's house the boys spend almost all of their time in school or with their Nana. All in all, I am pretty much assured that I spend more active time over the summer with my oldest that he gets throughout the rest of the year.

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I think I understand what you're saying. Your son wants you to follow his dad around (moving to be closer) and if you don't fulfil your son's wishes he won't want to see you for the summer. right?

 

If that's so, it sounds like he's obtained the ability to use double standards, such as you said he was doing. My six year old has done this too. "If you don't let me play Xbox, I won't let you get on the computer!" Cute and not as extreme as your situation, but still it's basically a social technique of negotiating thru manipulation or basic "wrong way of getting what you want". This type of social negotiation should probably be corrected given the right oppritunity. "Using something I want against me is not going to get you what you want".

 

I agree that explaining your reason why to him, possibly using metaphors for a 10 yr old, would be the best way to go. It will no doupt make you feel better to get your point across, and it will make him feel better to understand the "whys" of your situation. Not sure if I make sence. BUt in all conflicts, communication is key! :)

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I agree that using utimatums, in most cases, is the wrong way to go about greasing social interaction.

 

But, in business and in personal, sometimes you have to use the hammer, when other forms of negotiation fail.

 

So maybe this might also be viewed as a way to teach him how to negotiate.

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I agree that using utimatums, in most cases, is the wrong way to go about greasing social interaction.

 

But, in business and in personal, sometimes you have to use the hammer, when other forms of negotiation fail.

 

So maybe this might also be viewed as a way to teach him how to negotiate.

 

That is a very, very good idea. AND he is very intelligent so I think this path would appeal to him.

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LOL for some reason talking about negotiating reminds me of Star Wars and the Republic. I absolutly loved Amadala ;p (sorry that was off topic)

 

You are a very good and very smart mom! And yur son sounds pretty darn smart too :D

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my 10 year old is trying to force me to do something he wants me to do by threatening...

 

You are seeing this as manipulation or powerplay and you are missing the communication.

 

All because you want him to come no matter what, and you want to know how to make that happen.

 

You can let it be his choice, or you can use bully tactics.

 

The first has to do with respect, the second one with abuse.

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I told him that no matter what he has to come to visit me because it would break my heart if he didn't.

 

This is also immature to burden a child with the weight of your broken heart.

 

If his choice is not to go, you should strive to make him feel at ease because it's a tough decision.

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This is also immature to burden a child with the weight of your broken heart.

 

If his choice is not to go, you should strive to make him feel at ease because it's a tough decision.

 

No, it is ultimately not his choice not to go. It is the court's choice. There is a reason they do not let 10 year olds decide on how they live their lives A, because many would make choices to not ever go to school again too.

 

That's just it, there is no decision to be made; it was made when we divorced.

 

I, however, would like to have him feel secure in coming and it to be his desire to do so.

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