Parents of pre-teens..

[Touche]

I'm having a serious meltdown. My child is wilful and obstinate...has an answer for everything. EVERYTHING has becme an issue to argue over...from what's for lunch to it's time to study to you name it! EVERYTHING! Is this normal?

 

Does your kid around this age, argue with you about EVERYTHING? I can't take it anymore. I want to have more pleasant interactions with my bright, sweet smart and funny son but it's getting increasingly more difficult.

 

I guess I just need other parents to talk to now. I honestly don't think his friends are this way with their parents but who knows?

 

He's very lazy and I have to spoon-feed him during homework and assignments. I've pulled back at times to try to get him to be more independent but then he fails. I don't know what to do. What's the right balance to strike here?

 

I've tried punishments/rewards..everything. He'll be fine for a little while and then right back to where we started.

 

Any help/advice would be very much appreciated. Even if you have the same issues and just want to vent with me. ANYTHING! I'm at my wit's end.

[magichands]

Does your kid around this age, argue with you about EVERYTHING? I can't take it anymore. I want to have more pleasant interactions with my bright, sweet smart and funny son but it's getting increasingly more difficult.

Well...it's lucky you're not the argumentative sort. You're such a diplomat on LS - one of the things I admire about you.

 

I say argue about things that have substance, and refuse to argue about (heatedly discuss?) things that don't.

 

Not much advice there. Sorry.

[Touche]

Well...it's lucky you're not the argumentative sort. You're such a diplomat on LS - one of the things I admire about you.

 

I say argue about things that have substance, and refuse to argue about (heatedly discuss?) things that don't.

 

Not much advice there. Sorry.

 

Are you being sarcastic? I can never tell with you. I mean some people DO think I'm the argumentative sort.

 

You're advice though is good. It comes under the heading of "pick your battles." I try to do that. He's wearing me down though. And parents should never "argue" with their kids. It's easy to slip into that bad habit though.

 

Really, I know what to do. I just need to vent. He's a tough customer and I just have to stay tough. He sure knows how to push my buttons though!

[magichands]

He sure knows how to push my buttons though!

Hahahahaha! Don't they just.

[Touche]

Hahahahaha! Don't they just.

 

Oh yes. I have the worst headache now because of all of this. He pushes and pushes and pushes until I'm ready to explode!

 

So am I the only parent with this issue?

[melodymatters]

My daughter is now 13. We are very close ( it was just the 2 of us for most of her life) and she is beyond wise. She grew up with primarily adults surrounding her and was part of my adult theatre troupe for most of her life.

 

I can not " argue" or out logic this kid.

 

So, the best piece of advice I ever got was " kids will not change because they make YOU uncomfortable, they will change when THEY become uncomfortable"

 

I applied this in many ways. I used to lose my MIND about her constantly missing the bus. Then I realized, I was the one suffereing. SHE had no problem because if she missed the bus, mommy would give her a nice ride in the car.

 

So, the new deal was, she misses the bus, she walks. ( keep in mind this was in upstate NY, often during winter) The first few times, I followed her secretly in the car to make sure she was ok, but she had to LEARN THE CONSEQUENCES OF HER BEHAVIOR !!!

 

When the truant officer in Flordida was upset at her for being late and missing too many days, I was like " well give her saturday school, punish her, I am doing MY best, but if she's not doing HER best, give her the CONSEQUENCES "

 

I tend to go with a cause and effect parenting style. I do not scream, I do not lose my mind. I lay it out :

 

If you do A, B will happen, if you do C, D will happen.

 

It's hard, but at the end of the day, thats real life and I feel like I am preparing her for it.

 

GOOD LUCK TOUCHE !!!

[Touche]

Melody thank you SO much for that. All stuff I know but need to APPLY in a more consistant and dispassionate way. It's really helpful for me to hear this from another parent right now. I'm going to show my H your post too because he's wearing us BOTH down..not just me. We've been taking turns dealing with him lately because it's gotten a little out of hand with him.

 

You're SO right about the part about making HIM uncomfortable. That's excellent advice. He's sitting in his room right now and I have some peace for the moment. Wish I can get rid of this headache though. I know the stress with him brought it on because one minute I was fine and then it started building as the frustrations with him started to build. And I hate to admit it but I lost it and yelled. I try to NOT do that. You're so right about that.

 

So are you able to be consistent? Does your daughter test you much?

 

Again, thanks so much melody. You've helped me a great deal with your post. I feel like I need a parenting "coach" right now!

[melodymatters]

Touche, I am SO glad I was able to help in any way. LS if the first forum I ever joined, and every day, the giving and recieving has helped me in so many ways !

 

My Daughter, lets call her " HL" is very mature as i said, I guess she kind of had to be with a single mother, so now my biggest battles are cleaning her room, and her being late for school. I am HOPING ( crossed fingers) that we may be past the worst of it.

 

Yes, calmness and consistency are the key. I would mentally pretend I was her foster parent, and ask myself what I would do with ANOTHER child to prepare them for the world. That would help move the insane love/emotions we have for our offspring to a place I could better deal with it.

 

I am not a big "punisher", partially because I'm lazy, LOL and busy and most punishments end up hurting the parents as much as the child. But I always gave her her dignity and brought it back to the basic cause and effect of everything.

 

I am not here to PLEASE her. I am here to make her a functional member of society.

 

If she doesn't like what I cooked. Eat some cereal, this ain't a restaurant. If she won't do her homework, i will work with her to an extent, then I say " well, I got through college, I"M not going to be the one saying " Do you want fries with that" for the rest of MY life.

 

We are too invested in our children nowadys I feel. I had a "smother Mother" so I think thats why I go the other way.

 

" Hey dude, fail, starve, live in filth" this is YOUR life, I'm just your guide"

 

I know thats not typical, but if you can adopt a few pages from my " philosophy" that work for YOUR family, then It's all good !

 

Again, good luck and glad I could help !

 

Melody

[Touche]

I am not a big "punisher", partially because I'm lazy, LOL and busy and most punishments end up hurting the parents as much as the child. But I always gave her her dignity and brought it back to the basic cause and effect of everything.

 

How can you show cause and effect without consequences, i.e. punishment?

 

I liked your foster parent idea. I'll have to try that!

 

I always tell him that this is not a restaurant and then he says (after I give him 2 or 3 more choices like an idiot) that he'll just not have anything then...ARGH! I say fine, and then one hour later he'll break down and accept the first choice I gave him. It's really annoying. And it's all my fault I know. Seems like I just went through it with lunch and now I'm going through it again concerning dinner!

 

Funny because as far as your school work example I've told him that exact same thing too but he just doesn't care. He only cares about immediate gratification. My telling him of the long-term consequences concerning his school work has NO effect on him. He just simply doesn't care. So I have to keep pushing him.

 

I'd LOVE to step back and have him be more responsible for himself. I'm trying to do that but I sometimes feel like I'm getting nowhere fast.

 

His friends' parents tell me how wonderful he is. He's invited over to one friend or another just about every weekend. (He had THREE invitations this weekend alone.) The parents tell me that he's the most well-mannered, pleasant "little gentleman." Some have even asked me how we do it?! And I'm scratching my head saying "Whaaaa? Are you talking about OUR child?"

 

Believe me, I'd love to just be a "guide". I WANT to step back a little more but he'll fall like he's always done when I stepped back in the past. He's very immature for his age I think.

 

I'm rambling now..just getting it off my chest.

 

Oh and Melody, this is the first forum I've ever been involved in also. It's helped me in many ways (hurt me in some other ways though too.) I'm glad you're being helped and thanks again for listening and advising!

[anna13]

How can you show cause and effect without consequences, i.e. punishment?

 

I liked your foster parent idea. I'll have to try that!

 

I always tell him that this is not a restaurant and then he says (after I give him 2 or 3 more choices like an idiot) that he'll just not have anything then...ARGH! I say fine, and then one hour later he'll break down and accept the first choice I gave him. It's really annoying. And it's all my fault I know. Seems like I just went through it with lunch and now I'm going through it again concerning dinner!

 

Funny because as far as your school work example I've told him that exact same thing too but he just doesn't care. He only cares about immediate gratification. My telling him of the long-term consequences concerning his school work has NO effect on him. He just simply doesn't care. So I have to keep pushing him.

 

I'd LOVE to step back and have him be more responsible for himself. I'm trying to do that but I sometimes feel like I'm getting nowhere fast.

 

His friends' parents tell me how wonderful he is. He's invited over to one friend or another just about every weekend. (He had THREE invitations this weekend alone.) The parents tell me that he's the most well-mannered, pleasant "little gentleman." Some have even asked me how we do it?! And I'm scratching my head saying "Whaaaa? Are you talking about OUR child?"

 

Believe me, I'd love to just be a "guide". I WANT to step back a little more but he'll fall like he's always done when I stepped back in the past. He's very immature for his age I think.

 

I'm rambling now..just getting it off my chest.

 

Oh and Melody, this is the first forum I've ever been involved in also. It's helped me in many ways (hurt me in some other ways though too.) I'm glad you're being helped and thanks again for listening and advising!

my goodness T , reading your post was like reading about my child . well, my child isnt pre teen anymore he is full teen now at 16. but a few years ago he used to spend the night at friends houses and his friends parents would always compliment my on what a gentleman and polite considerate child i had. and I was like WHAT? you mean my son ? LOL .. but i didnt say it just thought it . my son doesnt like to argue but he sure likes to push buttons too. I agree with the above poster , to just know that you can guide your child but if they are going to not listen then they will have to learn lessons that only life can teach . Trust me I was having a meltdown the other day and posted about it ( my teen is making me insane ) but i felt better after. yup sometimes you need to talk to others who are going through the same thing . I know that our kids will act one way with us and differently with the rest of the world. I used to get really stressed because i was thinking that my goodness does he act like this at school? but i realize that they are comfortable and trust us that is why they act up with us . i heard from someone once that if I am getting really upset at everything my son is doing . and it is stressing me out so much then I am giving him the power to control the quality of my life . so now I pick my battles ( that is important) and even though he gets on my nerves I defintly try not to get on him about every little annoyance. that isnt good for me at all or him either , . melt down is a good way to describe it . kids are so hard sometimes. but it will pass. It is just their age and they really can't help bu tbe irrational ,impatient, and self centered and arrogant. try to concentrate on the good things your son does or the things that he does that are positive and make you happy. that is what i do and it helps alot. Also , do not think this is just your pre teen ... most pre teens and teens are this way to a certain extent so you are not alone. my girlfried who has raised 4 teens so far tells me , they all pretty much go through similar ways and then they start changing for the better ( maturing more around 17) this isnt forever they do eventually normalize, sometimes when my teen is driving me crazy, i wonder , but then I take a deep breath and think to myself that this isnt forever and that he is a good kid .. hang in there .also I have found that boys take longer to mature because all my girlfriends daughters that are or were the same age seem more mature and rational. LOL . post whenever you need to because it helps to take the edge off .

[burning 4 revenge]

Well...it's lucky you're not the argumentative sort. You're such a diplomat on LS - one of the things I admire about you.

:laugh:

 

you're a funny nothersucker magichands

[burning 4 revenge]

He pushes and pushes and pushes until I'm ready to explode!

he's a lucky boy

[Touche]

he's a lucky boy

 

Get lost...........

[Touche]

Thank you so much Anna! Yes, I think I posted on your thread. You said something about telling your son something 5 times and I said you should only have to say it ONCE. I've been trying to follow my own advice. Things are a little better. He's just a very wilfull child..which will serve him well later.

 

Thanks for the words of encouragement!

[blind_otter]

I'm not a parent, but have some experience with this from my partner's child. I just observe, more often than not, and I comment on their interactions later from a more objective perspective than my SO has.

 

It seems to me like, he allows the child to draw him into arguments that are not logically based, but they use the tactics of a logical debate. Which draws the parent into an emotionally based quasi-logical debate that really has no factual basis.

 

The goal, as far as I have observed, is never to argue the point -- it seems that the child is intent on riling the parent up so that the parent with forget what their initial point was. I find it hard to understand why these children want to argue but I have observed several times that the children will repeat the behavior with varying success with other adults.

 

I believe it's a form of emotional manipulation. Or it may be projection, because pre-teens feel inner emotional chaos and try to have their external environment match that chaos because they don't yet understand how to manage their own emotional landscape. They are still learning.

 

Just some observations, I have no real advice.

[Touche]

The goal, as far as I have observed, is never to argue the point -- it seems that the child is intent on riling the parent up so that the parent with forget what their initial point was.

 

God, that's SO true. He does this! And I find myself getting caught up in it. I have to make a conscious effort to stop that. It's hard sometimes.

 

As far as this goes though:

 

Or it may be projection, because pre-teens feel inner emotional chaos and try to have their external environment match that chaos because they don't yet understand how to manage their own emotional landscape. They are still learning.

 

I ain't buying that psycho babble. Sorry, BO. You know how I feel about that sort of thing by now I gather. It's BS!

 

"Inner emotional chaos" my ass! More like he wants what he wants when he wants it! It's that simple. And he's testing the boundaries big time.

 

"Emotional landscape":laugh: Sorry, it's just that kind of psycho babble nonsense that turns me off of the whole world of psychology/psychiatry. It's poppycock (don't you love that word? ) Seriously, it is.

[hotgurl]

His friends' parents tell me how wonderful he is. He's invited over to one friend or another just about every weekend. (He had THREE invitations this weekend alone.) The parents tell me that he's the most well-mannered, pleasant "little gentleman." Some have even asked me how we do it?! And I'm scratching my head saying "Whaaaa? Are you talking about OUR child?"

 

Kids always act so differently at school and other house. My daughter is the same way but I know it because she feels safe at home and can be cranky or whatever.

 

She is 11 and just about to start her period and her mood swings are unreal. One moment she'll be snotty and b!tching about math or school etc... and than 1/2 hour later it's mommy will you tuck me in and can I have my stuffed dog. I love you.

 

God it makes my head spin. Plus we just moved so new state, school friends and that makes everything harder.

 

She thinks goth is cool and can be very snotty.

[amaysngrace]

My son is 9 and he is like yours, Touche. He wants what he wants when he wants it. Plus he is seriously lacking respect for me.

 

I've finally had enough of his crap and put my foot down. Saturday, I told him "no". He freaked out. He called me a "stupid j-off", I sent him to his room and then before getting there, he took off his flip-flops and threw them down the steps at me.

 

I picked up the shoes, went up to his room, and beat his a** with the flip-flop. I told him he is to "never speak to me like that again. I am your mother". I also told him "you don't throw things EVER, especially at people and especially at women and mostly NEVER at me, your mother"

 

I took the phone out of his room and then the cable modem. I told him to "stay there and don't come out until I say you can, unless you have to pee"

 

Later on, he was all hugs and kisses. Now, when I tell him to "get down here right now" he comes running down the steps.

 

It sounds mean and all, and he even told me "i hate you" but you know what? He can hate me. I think I hated my parents at some point when I was growing up. But then I turned into an adult and realized I loved them. Because they tried hard to make sure I turn out okay. They didn't try to be my friend when I was a kid. They knew their roles were to be my parents. Besides, I had plenty of friends but only one Mom and Dad.

 

Now that I'm older, I have no greater friends than them.

[hotgurl]

touche,

Has you son started emtional blackmail. My daughter has a gift for it. She can tell if I am feeling guilty about something ie moving and try to exploit it to win arguments. recently she started are you ashamed of me? are you calling me a __ to try to get out of trouble.

 

Also BO is right there is a lot of inner chaos in pre teens and teens due to hormones. They was an interesting article on it where they said when teens get emotional they literally can't think straight.

[blind_otter]

Well when I felt emotionally chaotic I projected outward and did all sorts of crazymaking things with every intimate relationship I had.

 

Pre-adolescence is a weird time because the kid has to completely redefine who they are, with a new sexual component. And we all know how complicated sexual urges can make things. Imagine feelings like that in the world we live in today where EVERYTHING is over-sexualized.

 

THAT would make me feel confused as hell. And how do emotionally immature people deal with confusion? They get pissy and argue with everyone.

[Touche]

Thanks you guys. Yes, hotgurl he does practice emotional blackmail. Very much so. He'll try to make me feel guilty for this or that.

 

Grace, your son sounds a lot like mine and I couldn't stop laughing at the flip flop incident! That could have been a scene right out of my own house except the other day it was with a fly swatter! Oh he was an ANGEL after that. Stuck to me like glue and was very agreeable and sweet. Funny but I barely touched him with the swatter. He just saw that I had had enough!

 

He's never called me names but I have heard the "I hate you" a few times. I just put him in his room and let him think about that for awhile.

 

Wow, Grace your son has a phone and modem in his room? Not here. He's spoiled enough as it is. And don't you HATE, speaking of emotional blackmail when they bring up what other parents do with their kids? I mean COME ON! It's never enough it seems.

 

We took him and his friend bowling last weekend. We take trips together a lot (camping, cruises, etc.) but he has to bring up that we don't all go bike riding together or he'll name some other thing that one of his friends does with his parents. It's ridiculous. Am I a bad mother because I only go bike riding with him maybe once a year? Sheesh...seems I can't ever win.

 

It feels good to get this off my chest. And it's nice to know that others are going through what I am.

 

Hotgurl, I hear you on the moodiness but the way my son acts you'd think HE was getting his period! He's 10 1/2 by the way. Going on like 35!

 

And don't you hate when they say "Well how come YOU get to...etc. etc.) I keep telling him that I'm the adult and HE'S the child. We're not equals and I'm not his friend. I really agreed with you on that Grace. I'm an old-fashioned parent that way too. Good for you. I hate this whole "movement" of trying to be a friend to your kid. It's ludicrous. Those are the kids that end up really screwed up! I've seen it first hand. I have a knack for predicting which ones will have trouble later on.

 

My stepson is 19 and I was right about every one of his old buddies. The ones I predicted would do well, have. And the ones who didn't go on to college or who found themselves in trouble were no surprise to me. And those predictions were made when he/they were NINE! You can tell really early on.

 

My son will be fine. He's bright, funny and has a wonderful personality. Very popular. He just needs some discipline and focus. But it can wear you down. It's not easy to be consistent as you guys may know.

 

Thanks for the support. I have a feeling I'm going to need a LOT more of it!

[Moose]

I picked up the shoes, went up to his room, and beat his a** with the flip-flop.

YES! That's how you do that people!!

I took the phone out of his room and then the cable modem.

This probably hurt him more than the whippin'.

[Touche]

YES! That's how you do that people!!This probably hurt him more than the whippin'.

 

You're funny Moose! Yes, that's how it's done people!

 

I agree with you thought about the above. I get better results with punishment/reward than with spankings. But there still IS a time and a place for a good old-fashioned whoopin'.

 

And I do not want my thread turned into a debate about that, ok? It's been done. So please respect what this thread is really about. I'd appreciate it.

[Moose]

Nothing really changed for us until we created our, "Chore Chart".

 

They all have revolving chores to do every month with a reward system.

 

When they follow it, most times everything is peaceful and clean, and everyone is generally in a good mood.

 

The chores chart also has rules to obied by.

 

Rule #1 is the hardest of all, but most important, so much so that it's punishable by a week's grounding in the room, no phone, sattelite or internet...

 

Rule #1: ALWAYS, show respect for each other.

[Touche]

Good one Moose. But in our home he has to only show H and I respect (and other adults in authority like his teachers.) We chose to only have one child together. But anyway, are they clear on what that means? Sometimes you have to be more specific with kids.