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My brother's fiancée


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I don't even know where to begin with this. This is probably going to be really long so I apologize in advance. It pains me to even call her my future sister-in-law. I always used to look forward to the day my brother got married. To have a close bond with that woman who'd be my sister-in-law. I've always liked and got along with his ex's. Would have been more than happy if he had chosen one of them to marry. But for different reasons they were not right for him and I respected his decision because in the end I know that he's the one who has to be happy and that was all that mattered.

 

Then he meets her...From the first moment I met her I did not have a good feeling about her, but my brother adored her so I knew it was important to give her a chance and get to know her. Their relationship has been pretty rocky from the get go. He met her online and after four months of dating they move in together. It seems like they were always arguing about something. Many nights my brother would call me asking if he could stay at my place for the night because they just had a huge argument. One of those arguments was about her ex. Apparently he contacted her and wanted her back. My brother found this out because she forgot to log out of her email and he found all these emails exchanged between the two of them. When my brother confronted her about this she told him to leave it alone and that she needed this closure from the ex and that she would handle it. She even agreed to meeting her ex at some coffee shop to talk things out in person. Not caring about how this hurt my brother. Yet the time when my brother's ex contacted him through Facebook he told her right away that he was with someone new and they could not talk anymore. He was even upfront and honest with the fiancée telling her about how his ex contacted him and how he put a stop to it. Well the fiancée blew up at him, yet it was ok for her to talk to her ex behind his back.

 

So much more has happened. She basically manipulated my brother into proposing to her. They hadn't even been together for six months when she tells him "you have by such and such month to propose to me or I'm out. Afterall, my ex wants me back anyway so if you really want me you'll propose." Well apparently she has my brother under some spell because he ended up proposing. Not long after she ends up moving back home to Chicago because she told my brother she's not happy living here. My brother tries to get her to stay, but she was adamant. They have been living long distance for awhile now. My brother has since moved in with me because the plan was for him to try to get a job in Chicago and eventually move up there too. In the meantime he'd just stay with me since I had an extra room. She now has been telling him if he really loved her that he would just take any job or move up there until he could find a job. He's had a few interviews up there, but he recently got a promotion at his current job making really good money and he didn't want to take a job making less. She even tried telling him that her sister could get him a job at Target. So she wanted him to quit his good paying job for a minimum wage job? If she really loved him she would have never of moved in the first place. She caused this distance. He finally put his foot down and told her he wasn't moving up there. She finally agreed to try to get another teaching job down here. The distance had really taken its toll on their relationship. I mean who gets engaged and then moves away when they really don't have to?

 

There are many other things that I don't care for about her. She has treated my brother very badly in my opinion. He has called our mother up one day almost on the verge of tears talking about how she called him some very hurtful names. On several occasions she has pulled off her ring and given it back to him. She does not care for being around me or our family and my brother has lied for her on numerous occasions on why she doesn't come around. "Oh she's sick" "had such and such to do instead." Etc. We all know she doesn't care for us so not sure why he lies for her. Whenever she flies down to visit my brother she stays at my place and she's always whispering something to him so I can't hear which I think is so rude. One year for Christmas I got her this jacket which she later said she wouldn't be caught dead in. That really hurt my feelings. I mean if it wasn't her thing why couldn't she just quietly return it, give it away, throw it away etc.? She's basically an alcoholic. Always going out getting wasted at bars and my brother having to go pick her up. She's even gotten a DUI, but still drinks too much and drives all the time. They went out one time for their one year anniversary. My brother booked this nice fancy restaurant, bought her flowers...the whole nine yards and all she could do was complain about where they were sitting. My brother offers to get another table and she says no, I just want to go home and then gets up and leaves. I could go on and on about what she does. For some reason my brother still adores her so I'm nice to her face and I don't talk badly about her around my brother because I truly only want him to be happy and if she makes him happy then I guess that's all that matters. I just hate the way he's treated sometimes.

 

Just this past Sunday he tells me they are done and that he broke things off with her. He had to ask for the ring back because she didn't feel like she should have to give it back. She sent him all kinds of hateful texts and does finally end up mailing the ring back. He told me he had just had enough and couldn't deal with the distance any longer among other things. He said the whole incident with her ex still hurts him and he could not let it go. I could tell he was very hurt over the whole thing. I was happy though because I knew he deserved better. Well the very next day he regrets his decision and has been calling her up trying to get her back. I told him it was only natural to feel sad and to feel like there is a void now. That it would take time to heal. I told him it hurt me to see how he was being treated by her and that he deserved better. I tried telling him that he made the right decision and should just let things be, but he told me to stay out of it and that he knew what was right for him. He flew up to Chicago this weekend with the ring in hand to try to get her to take him back. I'm not sure why he felt he needed to break up with her only to change his mind the next day. The day that he broke things off with her he told me he'd been feeling this way for a few months now and had been trying to break things off sooner on several occasions, but never got the chance or she'd talk him out of it.

 

Sigh...I know it's his life, but I just fear he's making a big mistake by trying to get her back. I wish he would have just given it some time to think about first. Some time of no contact. They have been talking everyday since he broke things off. We've always been close and he knows I'll support him with whatever decision he makes. I just hate to know he could possibly get hurt far worse by deciding to pursue things further with her. Anyway, I'm just venting. This whole thing has been bothering me for awhile now and I guess I just had to get it out.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm really sorry, sounds incredibly stressful. With that said, it sounds to me like your brother isn't all too innocent in this situation either. It takes two to tango, and although I'm sure she's incredibly difficult at times and sounds like a real bitch, he perhaps seems to enjoy the toxicity.

 

Also, I'm assuming the only way you know about all those details is from him, so if he wants you to 'stay out of it' he needs to stop running to his family when she hurts him. Of course you guys aren't going to like her after that.

 

I'm sure that at the end of the day there are things he loves about her, but if he's going to put himself through a bad marriage, my best advice is to stay as uninvolved in it as possible. Let him know that if he keeps venting to you guys about her bad behavior, there's no way you will agree with this situation.

 

At the end of the day, be there for him, but stay away from the drama.

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I do hope he has broken up with her again by now.

 

Print off what you wrote and give it to him.

tell him she is a big mistake and you want better for him.

 

Or have your Mom give him the note.

 

 

He will have too much drama and pain.

 

what would he tell a good friend of his going thru the same thing?

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I do hope he has broken up with her again by now.

 

Print off what you wrote and give it to him.

tell him she is a big mistake and you want better for him.

 

Or have your Mom give him the note.

 

 

He will have too much drama and pain.

 

what would he tell a good friend of his going thru the same thing?

 

 

I see where you're coming from, but she has to be careful not to become the bad guy in this either. A note won't do much.

 

Also most of us are good at knowing what others should do but have a hard time receiving the same criticisms, meaning he may think if a friend did that they should break up, but it doesn't mean he'd break up with his own girlfriend following the same advice

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I tried telling him that he made the right decision and should just let things be, but he told me to stay out of it and that he knew what was right for him.

 

Sounds specific and unequivocal to me. You've expressed your strong concerns and reservations and he's made his decisions. Stay out of it.

 

And resist the temptation to say "told you so" when it all spectacularly implodes ;) ...

 

Mr. Lucky

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Cora, I suggest you give your brother a present: a copy of Stop Walking on Eggshells, which is the best-selling book targeted to the abused partners of BPDers (i.e., those exhibiting strong and persistent symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder). Alternatively, you could email him a link to my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs so he can see -- for himself -- whether most of them sound very familiar.

 

I mention BPD because the behaviors you describe -- i.e., emotional instability, verbal abuse, controlling actions, irrational jealousy, temper tantrums, lack of impulse control (alcohol), double standards, rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring him) and Hyde (devaluing him), always being "The Victim," and efforts to isolate him away from his own family -- are classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting that his fiancée has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

He felt he needed to break up with her only to change his mind the next day.
If his fiancée is a BPDer, he likely will find it extremely painful to walk away from her. The primary reason is that walking away from a BPDer feels like you are walking away from a sick young child who, despite her periodic tantrums, dearly loves you. Because a BPDer typically has the emotional development of a four year old, she likely exhibits the vulnerability and purity of expressions that otherwise is only seen in young children. Whereas a full-blown narcissist and a sociopath are unable to love, a BPDer is able to love very intensely. But is an immature form of love and thus falls far short of what is required to sustain a mature adult relationship.

 

A second reason it is difficult to leave is that, whereas narcissists and sociopaths manipulate you with deliberate lies, a BPDer usually believes the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth. Because her feelings are so intense, she is absolutely convinced they MUST be correct. Hence, because you know she loves you and truly believes most of her allegations, you mistakenly assume that -- if you can only figure out what YOU are doing wrong -- you can restore the R/S to that wonderful bliss and passion you saw at the beginning.

 

A third reason -- especially for an excessive caregiver -- is that a BPDer relationship gives him an opportunity to experience the intoxicating feeling of being the nearly perfect man who has ridden in on a white horse to save the maiden from unhappiness. His desire to be needed far exceeds his desire to be loved. He therefore is strongly attracted to a child-like woman who can project her vulnerability across a crowded room. (Indeed, if you ever see a Marilyn Monroe movie, you will see a BPDer woman who could project enormous vulnerability right off of a flat movie screen.)

 

A fourth reason is that, because a BPDer so completely mirrors the best aspects of your personality and your preferences, you both mistakenly believe that you have found your "soulmate." Hence, even when the abused partner later starts to question that intense feeling intellectually, he still will have to fight against the intense feeling that she is somehow perfect for him -- and destined to be his mate.

 

The result is that it is common for the abused partners of BPDers to attempt to leave many times. BPDer relationships thus are notorious for having multiple breakups. A BPDfamily survey of 460 such relationships found that 23% went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll.

 

I just fear he's making a big mistake by trying to get her back.
I agree if what you've told us is reasonably accurate. I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether his fiancée exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe your brother can easily spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if he takes a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as verbal abuse, always being "The Victim," impulsiveness, and temper tantrums. Take care, Cora.

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Thanks for the replies. I appreciate all the advice. It's been difficult, especially this week. She is a teacher and is off on spring break this week so she flew down to be with my brother. Which means she is in my house this very moment. :mad:

 

I have been avoiding her like the plague for fear of saying something I'd regret to her face. It's hard with her right here in my house, but I don't want to make things awkward or uncomfortable for my brother so I stay out of the way and am civil. I feel like since she chose to fly down to spend the week with my brother that she must have forgiven him or at least well on her way to. Which means they will most likely get back together.

 

I told my brother before she flew down that while I don't think she is the right girl for him, that it's not my place to say and that if he feels she is the one for him then I will support his decision. Also told him I'd never be disrespectful to her face. I just don't want to push him away even more.

 

It still confuses me how the day he broke up with her he said he could not see himself moving to Chicago to be with her because he was too happy here, settled in a good career and has all his friends and family here. Then the next day he's willing move to China if it meant being with her. But it's not for me to figure out. He keeps bringing up how he made a big commitment to her by getting engaged and how he's been with her the longest. How he can't just give all that up.

 

Anyway, I'm staying out of it. He still asks for my advice from time to time and my opinion on if he's dong the right thing. I'm as honest as I possibly can be with him. Telling him my feelings, but also saying it's not my decision to make.

 

I just pray we can all make it through this week. She will be staying here through Sunday. I've noticed she's been avoiding me too. You can just cut the tension with a knife. My brothers birthday is tomorrow so I'm trying to stay pleasant for his sake.

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I just pray we can all make it through this week. She will be staying here through Sunday. I've noticed she's been avoiding me too. You can just cut the tension with a knife. My brothers birthday is tomorrow so I'm trying to stay pleasant for his sake.

 

A measured, considerate and thoroughly adult approach! Kudos to you.

 

I'll bet you've had some great imaginary conversations with her while you're alone in the shower. "And another thing you should know..." :eek::eek::eek:

 

Mr. Lucky

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whichwayisup

Just be there for him when the crap hits the fan. Until then you're doing the right thing by doing your best to stay civil and not shoot your mouth off.

 

Hopefully your brother will find his self respect and take a step back to see what this woman is all about and will wake up before saying vows to her.

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BettyDraper
Just be there for him when the crap hits the fan. Until then you're doing the right thing by doing your best to stay civil and not shoot your mouth off.

 

Hopefully your brother will find his self respect and take a step back to see what this woman is all about and will wake up before saying vows to her.

 

That's the best approach.

 

As a woman who has a brother, I completely understand your wish to protect your sibling from making a huge mistake. I hated the mother of my brother's child because she was trashy, ignorant and devious. I was so happy when they broke up.

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Well he announced Easter Day to the whole family that he's quitting his good job here which he just got a promotion in and moving up to Chicago with her into her apartment with no job lined up there. He will be living off of her money until he finds something. I just don't understand how one moment he said he could never be happy living there and would not move there and definitely would not move there without a job making at least what he makes now, preferably more. And now he's going back on his word on all of it. It's like she's brainwashed him or something. He put in his two week notice at work today and she is flying down on May 5th to help him move. The whole family is just upset by the whole thing. Mom was in tears. Not so much that he's moving away, but feels he's making a mistake. Not once did she visit our parents while she was down the entire week and they were hurt by that.

 

I don't understand his decisions he's made and am in shock that he's doing things so quickly now. I don't know what the rush is. All I can do is wish him the best and hope he doesn't look back in regret later. I just can't help but fear that once he gets up there in her clutches, we will rarely, if ever see him. I can't explain the power she has over him. It still hurts me too that the entire week I allowed her to stay in my house and eat my food, that she barely said two words to me. Not even a simple thank you. And now she has my brother right where she wants him. :(

Edited by Cora
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Well he announced Easter Day to the whole family that he's quitting his good job here which he just got a promotion in and moving up to Chicago with her into her apartment with no job lined up there. He will be living off of her money until he finds something. I just don't understand how one moment he said he could never be happy living there and would not move there and definitely would not move there without a job making at least what he makes now, preferably more. And now he's going back on his word on all of it. It's like she's brainwashed him or something. He put in his two week notice at work today and she is flying down on May 5th to help him move. The whole family is just upset by the whole thing. Mom was in tears. Not so much that he's moving away, but feels he's making a mistake. Not once did she visit our parents while she was down the entire week and they were hurt by that.

 

You seem determined to focus on the hurt he's caused you and others by not living up to your expectations. You'll have to accept he's got his own expectations and priorities and he's busy sorting them out.

 

If your feelings for those close to your will be based on their compliance with your standards, I can guarantee they'll all disappoint you sooner or later. Let it go and let him be him...

 

Mr. Lucky

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You seem determined to focus on the hurt he's caused you and others by not living up to your expectations. You'll have to accept he's got his own expectations and priorities and he's busy sorting them out.

 

If your feelings for those close to your will be based on their compliance with your standards, I can guarantee they'll all disappoint you sooner or later. Let it go and let him be him...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

You're absolutely right. It's his life and his decisions...not mine. I need to stop caring so much and not let the decisions of others affect me. It's a horrible habit of mine. Thank you for that clarity.

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You're absolutely right. It's his life and his decisions...not mine. I need to stop caring so much and not let the decisions of others affect me.

 

Cora, don't know if you have kids (and if so, how old they are) but just wait until you go through this process with them :eek: ! Letting go is very difficult and I'm convinced at times their goal is to thwart our expectations for them. Patience very much a virtue in this regard...

 

Mr. Lucky

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