My father's debts- to pay or let it go

[czen]

So, I have lived with my dad my entire life. First 17 years, I also lived with my grandparents. Things seemed to be doing fine, my grandparents kept everything in check. After they passed away, problems seemed to come up.

 

More and more court orders seemed to drop on the doorstep. I didn't really pay it much attention, I was starting college and had some issues of my own. My dad would take care of it I thought. In the end, he didn't. A year later me and my uncle had to bail him out, as he hadn't paid rent. We gave him the money, my money was from my years of savings I had as a kid. My dad said it was because he was distraught over the loss of his parents and just lost control. He also figured he couldn't handle it financially on his own, as he had this massive debt which meant he barely received any salary. So he asked my uncle, who is a very dysfunctional person himself, as he has some kind of mental incapacity.

 

After this, seemed to be doing better for a short while, but I learned my lesson: I moved out, I didn't want to ever come in the position again that I could be evicted. So I still paid no real attention to my dad's financial situation. Besides, I expected with the double income from my uncle that things would be manageable. He still asked me for money intermittently, a few hundred every few months.

 

Eventually, I moved abroad and I started to study there. I expect to have a student loan debt of about 100k because of all this. When I came back home for vacation, I helped my dad buy a new second hand car. He needed it, because his old one broke down. I paid for the entire car, which I paid for with my student loans. The car breaks down a lot though, so it needs a lot of repairs. So my dad spends a crap ton of money on it.

 

When I came back during another vacation, I started to think more and more about the future. I wanted my dad and uncle to be able to live their lives, but I also didn't want to have to pay for them, or be worried that I had to pay for them. So I went through all the finances.

 

My dad often just refuses to pay bills. He pays them when he really has to, when he already got a bunch of late fees and they start threatening with turning off the service. He always pays his rent though. This all wasn't too bad, I mean bills can only amount to like a thousand or two, even with the late fees. Still idiotic that he doesn't pay them on time of course. He said he often just didn't have the money. I number crunched it all, and I agree, it's very tight, but it should be manageable. Plus I already pay the taxes for the car every month.

 

The main issue was that he never files income tax. Not sure why he has to, since there is no way he would have to pay extra. As a result of his many years of not filing, he gets like a 10,000 fee every time he does it. When I saw that, it all clicked. No wonder my dad can never become guilt free.

 

So I helped him over the summer. Paid off his last utility bills and asked him to just let everything be done automatically. Not everything could be done that way, so I told him to keep it up with the payments. I would be back for Christmas and try to help him with his income tax.

 

I hoped this would be the end. Also because I wanted to stop worrying and wanted to focus on my own future and stop having to pay for him. But I'm not too sure. I just got back, and have seen new court orders laying around. Plus my dad has been saying how he has spent a lot of money on the car lately. With his income, he shouldn't really be able to do that, unless he has been saving up a bit every month...or he has not been paying his bills.

 

I am planning on talking to him about it soon. I am prepared for the worst, that he again has a lot of debt just like over the summer. But what should my response be? Should I bail him out again and hope he manages it better? Or tell him he's on his own? I don't want to forever have to pay for him, but still, he's my dad.

[Ronni_W]

But what should my response be? Should I bail him out again and hope he manages it better? Or tell him he's on his own? I don't want to forever have to pay for him, but still, he's my dad.

You already know that he is not going to manage his finances any better in the future than he has in the past, for your entire life...and likely before that. Stop "hoping for" or expecting things that your own mind has more than enough evidence is unrealistic, unreasonable.

 

Third option. Tell him that you will help him file for bankruptcy. That you will do ALL that you have time and energy for, and ONLY to help him file for bankruptcy.

Tell him that you are sorry for having enabled him all this time, but you are not going to be doing that anymore. Here, and no further.

And then stick to your word.

 

Yes, he is your dad. No, you are not responsible for his life, his debts, his world that he has created for himself through his own free will choices.

 

Yes, it's a difficult decision that you have to make. No, you need not feel guilty about not taking on responsibility that is not, and never was, yours to take on in the first place.

 

Hugs.

[Toodaloo]

It sounds as though he is completely incompetent with money.

 

You have your own life and are already saddled with student debts that you should have used to pay for your study but you have used to pay off his debts... You have taken on enough.

 

Sit him down. Tell him there is no more that you can give him but you will help him file for bankruptcy.

 

You can't keep on like this.

[bathtub-row]

It sounds like he has never had to be responsible before and doesn't have any interest in being that way now. I don't know if his parents did everything for him or what but he is extremely childish and is determined to ignore reality. I agree with the others, help him file bankruptcy and let him know that you won't be bailing him out again. This is not a child's responsibility.

 

I'm curious as so why he's getting court orders at this point. That doesn't happen within a few months, and if you cleared everything up over the summer, this doesn't make sense. I think there are lots of other debts he's not telling you about; some that must be several years old. I doubt that these court orders are even legitimate unless they pertain to his house payment.

 

Btw, good for you for the education and experiences you're getting. You also seem to be the exact opposite of your dad when it comes to money. You have a great life ahead of you.

[SoleMate]

If you pay his bills for him yet again, there will be no end in sight. However much money you throw at him, even far beyond your own means, he will create more debt. So may as well call a halt right now and save your money for where it will be well-used, i.e. your own needs.

[pink_sugar]

Your father sounds very irresponsible and you are enabling him by paying his debts and not allowing him to suffer the consequences of his bad decisions. Also, this is putting unnecessary strain on you. I would honestly walk away from this. He needs some tough love right now and not you bailing him out.

[czen]

Hey everyone!

 

Sorry for the (very) late reply. What happened now:

I left tmy father again, I asked him repeatedly everything was okay, both financially and emotionally. He kinda evaded the question each time, but he sort of said it was going okay.

 

Well, it all went to hell.

My father actually has a girlfriend now, which is great, she seems responsible and everything. She live about an hour away, so that's not ideal, but oh well.

 

But the issues started two weeks ago: my uncle went crazy. He stopped taking his medication as is very mentally unstable now. Caused some damage, attacked my dad, it was ugly. Eventually he went to an institution, so that's sort of cleared up now.

 

But now my dad told me he will get evicted, unless he can cough up three grand.

 

I want to give him money, but I know I will be completely broke again then too (I will still have like two thousand dollars in my bank account, but my account in my father's country will be like minus 2000).

 

I know it's bad to do that, as all the previous posters said, but is there anything else I can do to let him at least live somewhere?

[preraph]

Are you in the US? Can you get your father on food stamps or into government low-cost housing? If he lives with the mentally ill uncle, maybe you can get the uncle disability and all that to help them both. If the uncle has no one else but you and your dad, you could probably get guardianship of him and take over his finances and use those to try to keep them afloat, even if it's just a disability check or whatever.

 

Please contact the IRS if you are in the US and ask if all this can make you eligible to claim your dad or uncle as a dependent. If so, you can get a lot of tax breaks. Your dad has to be not claiming himself though. I doubt he even files taxes by the sound of him.

 

If all your dad owes is $3000, it's not worth paying a lawyer to file bankruptcy. Plus he'd have to keep up his end of the payment deal and be in violation of federal law if he had terms he didn't meet.

 

Honestly, he's so cavalier about not paying bills, I'd be tempted to let him pay off his $3000 in jail. They probably wouldn't keep him a week as crowded as jails are. But see if he's eligible for assistance. See if you're able to claim him on taxes. See if uncle's situation can be used to your benefit. Having a girlfriend around will only cost him more money and I think it's a good time to wash your hands of giving him money with both of them to come up with it.

[Tayla]

Save your money for a brief consult with a lawyer. There is a Pro tem for family management that can be incorporated. Basically the judge can order that as his heir (you) can manage his finances due to his past record. The monies would be kept in a guarded account. You would only be able to pay his debts as they arise. Each month the court receives the itemization of how you are managing it.It can be awarded for short term til your father can show responsible behavior or it can be long term. That again would be discussed thru the courts and your lawyer. It would be easiest if Your Dad simply granted you this authority yet more often then not it ends up in court for a judge to determine your Dads stability. This is just a basic re-cap as certain states have varying process's. If you are in another county or he is, then you would need to seek advise thru their system.

Again, speak with a lawyer for clear answers and ways to keep yourself financially safe while showing concern for your fathers quandry.

[carhill]

He'll survive. Let it go. They always survive.

[czen]

Are you in the US? Can you get your father on food stamps or into government low-cost housing? If he lives with the mentally ill uncle, maybe you can get the uncle disability and all that to help them both. If the uncle has no one else but you and your dad, you could probably get guardianship of him and take over his finances and use those to try to keep them afloat, even if it's just a disability check or whatever.

 

Please contact the IRS if you are in the US and ask if all this can make you eligible to claim your dad or uncle as a dependent. If so, you can get a lot of tax breaks. Your dad has to be not claiming himself though. I doubt he even files taxes by the sound of him.

 

If all your dad owes is $3000, it's not worth paying a lawyer to file bankruptcy. Plus he'd have to keep up his end of the payment deal and be in violation of federal law if he had terms he didn't meet.

 

Honestly, he's so cavalier about not paying bills, I'd be tempted to let him pay off his $3000 in jail. They probably wouldn't keep him a week as crowded as jails are. But see if he's eligible for assistance. See if you're able to claim him on taxes. See if uncle's situation can be used to your benefit. Having a girlfriend around will only cost him more money and I think it's a good time to wash your hands of giving him money with both of them to come up with it.

I'm in the US right now yes, but my dad is in the Netherlands. So the laws are a bit different...

 

But one thing I do know, is that his rent already is really low, so that won't really help.

 

And yeah, he does not file taxes, as I said in the OP. He just puts his head in the sand and lets himself get screwed over. Since because he makes so much, I know he won't have to return anything to the IRS. But he always walks away with a 10.000 fine every April...Realized this when I was looking at his finances in the Summer.

[Tayla]

Where is the citizenship based?

[Diezel]

Might be time to stop enabling him.