Kids - which is worse, high conflict or A and leave?

[Henni]

I believe that staying in a bad marriage with high conflict is worse for the kids than having an affair, getting out, and starting a loving relationship.

 

A lot of comments here recently have led me to believe that many people think that this is not the case.

 

I would like to test this theory. Which is worse for the kids, a high conflict marriage that doesn't end where there is no affair, or a bad marriage where an affair happens, the WS leaves and begins a loving relationship outside the marriage?

 

I've stated this as two circumstances to be compared. I'm not saying that other circumstances don't exist, they do, they're just unrelated to this post.

[bentnotbroken]

It's kind of hard to answer. For me it is like comparing breast and pancreatic cancer. Neither is good or wanted.

[Henni]

It's kind of hard to answer. For me it is like comparing breast and pancreatic cancer. Neither is good or wanted.

 

Neither is good or wanted, but breast cancer is more treatable and detectable.

 

It's about what is more damaging to the kids. I think that leaving a high conflict situation, even if it is not under ideal circumstances and there is falsehood implied on the way, is preferable for the kids long term health to staying in a conflict situation.

[Spark1111]

I think it is how it is handled by the unhappy adult parent...in either a bad marriage OR an affair that acts as an impetus to leaving.

 

if you conduct yourself with dignity, patience and always show respect to the other parent, either could work.

 

As long as the security of children is placed FIRST before your personal romantic happiness, both would scenarios could be okay.....depending on HOW it is handled in the presence of the children who love both parents equally.

[Henni]

I think it is how it is handled by the unhappy adult parent...in either a bad marriage OR an affair that acts as an impetus to leaving.

 

if you conduct yourself with dignity, patience and always show respect to the other parent, either could work.

 

As long as the security of children is placed FIRST before your personal romantic happiness, both would scenarios could be okay.....depending on HOW it is handled in the presence of the children who love both parents equally.

 

By high conflict, I meant where one or both parents are openly arguing with the other.

[Henni]

It would be good to also hear from anyone who has been the child in this circumstance. It's an important question for anyone going through a so called 'exit affair'.

[bentnotbroken]

Neither is good or wanted, but breast cancer is more treatable and detectable.

 

It's about what is more damaging to the kids. I think that leaving a high conflict situation, even if it is not under ideal circumstances and there is falsehood implied on the way, is preferable for the kids long term health to staying in a conflict situation.

 

 

Yet both are just as deadly.

[Spark1111]

Neither is good or wanted, but breast cancer is more treatable and detectable.

 

It's about what is more damaging to the kids. I think that leaving a high conflict situation, even if it is not under ideal circumstances and there is falsehood implied on the way, is preferable for the kids long term health to staying in a conflict situation.

 

 

well how parents HANDLE conflict is MORE important than their personal romantic happiness.

 

Kids could care less if you are romantically happy. HOW does mom treat dad? HOW does dad treat mom? With kindness, respect and patience I would hope.

 

And I hope adults know this and act accordingly despite their personal feelings.

 

Kids first, romantic relational happiness second. You can disengage, slowly over time, with lots of counseling to ensure kids feel confident and secure, before embarking on your own personal romantic happiness.

[Henni]

Yet both are just as deadly.

 

One being more treatable makes it less deadly, by definition.

[bentnotbroken]

One being more treatable makes it less deadly, by definition.

 

 

Not in my culture. That's all I have to go on. Back to your topic.

[Henni]

well how parents HANDLE conflict is MORE important than their personal romantic happiness.

 

Kids could care less if you are romantically happy. HOW does mom treat dad? HOW does dad treat mom? With kindness, respect and patience I would hope.

 

And I hope adults know this and act accordingly despite their personal feelings.

 

Kids first, romantic relational happiness second. You can disengage, slowly over time, with lots of counseling to ensure kids feel confident and secure, before embarking on your own personal romantic happiness.

 

I agree, respectful exit before new relationship is ideal, but that is not one of the two circumstances i'm particularly interested to compare in this post.

[Henni]

Not in my culture. That's all I have to go on. Back to your topic.

 

It's not a question of culture, it's a question of what percentage die after diagnosis. Or, to get back to the source of this allegory in the original post, which is more damaging long term to the kids, a high conflict marriage, or an affair, exit and subsequent loving relationship?

[Spark1111]

It would be good to also hear from anyone who has been the child in this circumstance. It's an important question for anyone going through a so called 'exit affair'.

 

yes, me!

 

my mother bled emotion all over us; anger, bitterness, disparaging my dad ad nauseum.

 

My dad? NEVER said a bad word against my mom, treated her with kindness and respect, and NEVER allowed us to disrespect her in his presence.

 

WHO do you think we MOST respected in adulthood?

 

Dad, who, despite his personal feelings, always demanded kindness and respect towards my mother. Yes! It can be done.

[Henni]

yes, me!

 

my mother bled emotion all over us; anger, bitterness, disparaging my dad ad nauseum.

 

My dad? NEVER said a bad word against my mom, treated her with kindness and respect, and NEVER allowed us to disrespect her in his presence.

 

WHO do you think we MOST respected in adulthood?

 

Dad, who, despite his personal feelings, always demanded kindness and respect towards my mother. Yes! It can be done.

 

Thanks Spark. To clarify, was there an affair, exit and subsequent loving relationship in your parent's marriage?

[Spark1111]

I agree, respectful exit before new relationship is ideal, but that is not one of the two circumstances i'm particularly interested to compare in this post.

 

Ok, fBS here. His OW may have been st. Theresa incarnate. My kids did not care. They HATED her. WHY? because she and his relationship made their mother cry.

 

Henni....do you have children?

[Henni]

Ok, fBS here. His OW may have been st. Theresa incarnate. My kids did not care. They HATED her. WHY? because she and his relationship made their mother cry.

 

Henni....do you have children?

 

I'm going to stick to my guns here and point out that this is not the question I wanted to discuss. I am not particularly interested in whether he children knew about the affair or not, whether there was a DDay and crying, or whether or not the children hated the OW, or whether the OW had kids. I just want to know if people out there really think a high conflict marriage is better for the kids than an affair, exit and subsequent loving relationship. It's not that i'm not interested in anything else, it's just that the questions get so easily lost in posts here and it's hard to maintain a focused and rational discussion on any topic.

[Henni]

if the marriage is that bad, and there is so much conflict, then why not get the h@ll out...why does an affair need to be the median point between the two? If one is that concerned about their children's wlefare, then it shouldn't take having an affair to make them realize it's time to go, and besides, having an affair is the one thing a person can do that has a god chance of leading to extra hurt, acrimony and sadness for all involved before, during and after a divorce...

 

It would seem that saying " having an affair helped them to leave" it's just trying to sneak in through the back door what someone was to afraid to bring in through the front...

 

If it takes having an affair to make a person want to leave, then i would really question jut how bad it really is...seems like it's just another way to rationalize bad behavior ( same logic as " I don't want to divorce as doing so would break up my family and hurt my kids, yet I'll have an affair, which is the one thing with a very good chance of breaking up my marriage")...

 

If someone wants to have an affair, or if someone wants to be the other man/woman, then why not jst say so? why is it so important to find reasons to rationalize it and make it okay? could it be that just maybe it isn't okay after all?

 

In the end, it does all come down to the kids and how they feel. They most likely really don;t care too much if mom or dad is enjoying their romantic life, as long as they themselves are being looked after. It really does seem like the height of self centeredness to think that a child would be happy about a divorce simply because mommy or daddy is "in love"...they care more about such things as " where will I live", "where will I go to school", "when will I get to see mommy or daddy", " will I still get to see my friends" and things like that ( older kids, of course, worry about other things). Children may not be as dumb as some would like to think but they aren't adults either, and don't tend to see thinsg the way an adult does...

 

As I said originally, there are many other circumstances than the two specific ones I've opened for discussion here. These circumstances don't 'need' to be anything other than two circumstances, ones which I believe many people in affairs face. I don't want to discuss all the various circumstances on this thread, I just want to compare and discuss these two.

[Spark1111]

Thanks Spark. To clarify, was there an affair, exit and subsequent loving relationship in your parent's marriage?

 

Hmmmm....

 

My mother was very bitter as my dad was the only man she would ever risk enough to love....and my dad never married his AP BUT did go on to have other relationships...some I liked, some I hated.

 

had he EVER met a woman of my mother's caliber and class...who loved him with the same passion she did, I would have embraced her with open arms.

 

later in life, and many, many, women later.....I think he realized this and admitted as much to me.

 

mom? I couldn't mention his name without her almost spitting in disgust. She sacrificed all, way too much, at the alter of love for my dad.

 

All his subsequent women had wanted much more from him than my mom ever demanded. she just wanted his love.

 

Ah.....sad no? Like so many, he thought the grass was greener and discovered it was not, but too late, to much water under the bridge, to ever get her and that unconditional love back.

 

He died with regrets I think.

[Henni]

Hmmmm....

 

My mother was very bitter as my dad was the only man she would ever risk enough to love....and my dad never married his AP BUT did go on to have other relationships...some I liked, some I hated.

 

had he EVER met a woman of my mother's caliber and class...who loved him with the same passion she did, I would have embraced her with open arms.

 

later in life, and many, many, women later.....I think he realized this and admitted as much to me.

 

mom? I couldn't mention his name without her almost spitting in disgust. She sacrificed all, way too much, at the alter of love for my dad.

 

All his subsequent women had wanted much more from him than my mom ever demanded. she just wanted his love.

 

Ah.....sad no? Like so many, he thought the grass was greener and discovered it was not, but too late, to much water under the bridge, to ever get her and that unconditional love back.

 

He died with regrets I think.

 

Thank you. That sounds really hard for both your parents.

 

For you, as a child, do you think it was better or worse for your long term happiness that they chose to separate? Was the marriage high conflict when they were together? Just trying to figure out which of the two circumstances i've defined was your experience, and if there was a high conflict marriage, which you were witness to, do you think this situation would have been preferable to a break up, even with the break up being preceded by an affair? I'm genuinely asking this with good reasons.

[Furious]

I'm going to stick to my guns here and point out that this is not the question I wanted to discuss. I am not particularly interested in whether he children knew about the affair or not, whether there was a DDay and crying, or whether or not the children hated the OW, or whether the OW had kids. I just want to know if people out there really think a high conflict marriage is better for the kids than an affair, exit and subsequent loving relationship. It's not that i'm not interested in anything else, it's just that the questions get so easily lost in posts here and it's hard to maintain a focused and rational discussion on any topic.

 

You make it sound as if there is no other option, that either the kids suffer through their parents dysfunction or their father has an affair and then gets a divorce.

 

Are you implying your MM would not be divorcing if you had not come along. If so, that says a lot about this man and his inability to act independently to protect his children's well being.

 

I think anyone who involves themselves in this type of dysfunction should run for the hills. The marriage should be dissolved as best as can be and both spouses should be focused on their children's transition and detox from the marriage before embarking into a new relationship.

[Spark1111]

I'm going to stick to my guns here and point out that this is not the question I wanted to discuss. I am not particularly interested in whether he children knew about the affair or not, whether there was a DDay and crying, or whether or not the children hated the OW, or whether the OW had kids. I just want to know if people out there really think a high conflict marriage is better for the kids than an affair, exit and subsequent loving relationship. It's not that i'm not interested in anything else, it's just that the questions get so easily lost in posts here and it's hard to maintain a focused and rational discussion on any topic.

 

yes! I think a high conflict marriage is MORE desirable for children than an affair, exit and subsequent loving relationship.

 

That is HOW I felt as a child....delusional I know....up until AFTER I was graduated from college.

 

For me, their good times out weighed their conflicts, and typically a child, I wanted mommy and daddy together no matter what. I felt more secure with them together than apart.

 

I did not know any better. how could a child know any better? they cannot.

[Praying4Peace]

I believe that staying in a bad marriage with high conflict is worse for the kids than having an affair, getting out, and starting a loving relationship.

 

A lot of comments here recently have led me to believe that many people think that this is not the case.

 

I would like to test this theory. Which is worse for the kids, a high conflict marriage that doesn't end where there is no affair, or a bad marriage where an affair happens, the WS leaves and begins a loving relationship outside the marriage?

 

I've stated this as two circumstances to be compared. I'm not saying that other circumstances don't exist, they do, they're just unrelated to this post.

 

A bad marriage with an affair and the WS leaves and is happy...what happens to the BS? Is he/she in the kids lives? Is he/she angry and bitter and broken and showing this daily to the kids? I don't think its healthy for parents to pit against each other, even unintentionally. When you talk bad about a parents its always hurtful to a child bc that person is a part of them.

Assuming that doesn't happen- kids just want to be in a happy environment. It can be a blended family or a situation where parents aren't together. As long as the kids see a happy parent who gives them the attention that they are due and makes them feel loved and a priority.

 

A toxic marriage without an affair. This is interesting because I got a call from a friend today in one of these. Its escalated out of control with phases of either cold silence (they only will email), snakiness, or out of control fighting. This has been the case for the kids whole lives. Their 10 year old daughter has so many problems. Always nauseous, high anxiety and other problems that the therapist says are caused by environment. She has bad dreams nightly. The son is just aggressive, but he's younger.

 

In my childhood I lived with two parents who did not get along. It was always tense...like at least 60% of the time. I would literally hate eating dinner or being in a room with them because I always was afraid something was going to happen. I can still remember when the tone of voice would change and I'd get a knot in my stomach...like 'oh crap is this going to be a big, medium or small fight and how long will it last and its after affects (cold war silent treatment)'

 

I remember wishing that if i could have anything in the world i'd have parents who loved each other enough for it to show. If I saw them hug it was the best day in the world. I used to feel upset that they had so much power over my emotional world...why couldn't they just get along or split up?

 

There were times when my dad had to travel...the whole world used to light up and it seemed like that whole house was different. It would've been hard to adjust to them living apart but it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

 

In my A, my exMM used to say the kids would get so upset when they would fight that the 9 year old would cry that he didn't want them living together and the older kids would take the younger ones into a room and close the door to protect them. I know what that kind of stress feels like. It affects you the rest of your life.

 

I am newly D due to my A. I personally feel sad and terrible but my kids are thriving after 8 months of us living apart. I look at them and realize that I want them to dream big when it comes to love and relationships. I don't want them to think a marriage is how ours was at the end. Kids model what they see.

 

At the end of the day- I'd rather be from a broken home than live in one.

[Henni]

You make it sound as if there is no other option, that either the kids suffer through their parents dysfunction or their father has an affair and then gets a divorce.

 

Are you implying your MM would not be divorcing if you had not come along. If so, that says a lot about this man and his inability to act independently to protect his children's well being.

 

I think anyone who involves themselves in this type of dysfunction should run for the hills. The marriage should be dissolved as best as can be and both spouses should be focused on their children's transition and detox from the marriage before embarking into a new relationship.

 

No, i'm not implying that my MM would not be divorcing if I had not come along. It was already in the plans. I agree that the marriage ending first is preferable, but that's not the way it is, which is why i've defined the two circumstances I would like to compare pretty clearly.

[Henni]

yes! I think a high conflict marriage is MORE desirable for children than an affair, exit and subsequent loving relationship.

 

That is HOW I felt as a child....delusional I know....up until AFTER I was graduated from college.

 

For me, their good times out weighed their conflicts, and typically a child, I wanted mommy and daddy together no matter what. I felt more secure with them together than apart.

 

I did not know any better. how could a child know any better? they cannot.

 

Fair enough. Do you mean, you felt it was more desirable to stay in a high conflict marriage when you were a child, but later after college felt differently?

[bentnotbroken]

Yes...it is more desirable than an affair. Crazy with integrity trumps crazy without.