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Is It Easier If You're Poor & Don't have Kids?


Brian Eno's Cousin

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Brian Eno's Cousin

I'm just starting to look into this, and from a quick sweep of these threads it seems that the two major hassles involved in any separation/divorce scenario are, obviously, the kids and also the division of assets. Does this, however, mean that the situation is easier if neither of these things are an issue?

 

We don't have children. We have a cat that we both love, and I am fully confident neither of us would ever allow any harm to come to said feline no matter who Mr. Cat ends up going with. We both live check-to-check and split all rent/bills equally. We both make about the same salary. As big city dwellers we don't own any property or cars. I do have a 401K and would fully expect for half of that to go to my (ex) partner, which is fine.

 

And that's all, folks.

 

So is it really that easy? What are some hidden traps I'm not seeing?

 

Of course, with this type of situation there is always the "We're too poor to afford our own rent" situation, but if we're not happy then we're not happy. I'm fully prepared to enter a roommate situation or live in a less attractive hood.

 

At least then I'd be free.

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CautiouslyOptimistic
I'm just starting to look into this, and from a quick sweep of these threads it seems that the two major hassles involved in any separation/divorce scenario are, obviously, the kids and also the division of assets. Does this, however, mean that the situation is easier if neither of these things are an issue?

 

We don't have children. We have a cat that we both love, and I am fully confident neither of us would ever allow any harm to come to said feline no matter who Mr. Cat ends up going with. We both live check-to-check and split all rent/bills equally. We both make about the same salary. As big city dwellers we don't own any property or cars. I do have a 401K and would fully expect for half of that to go to my (ex) partner, which is fine.

 

And that's all, folks.

 

So is it really that easy? What are some hidden traps I'm not seeing?

 

Of course, with this type of situation there is always the "We're too poor to afford our own rent" situation, but if we're not happy then we're not happy. I'm fully prepared to enter a roommate situation or live in a less attractive hood.

 

At least then I'd be free.

 

Well, of course it's easier because you don't have to buy as much food or clothing, but it won't be EASY because you still have to pay rent/mortgage, groceries, utilities, cable, etc. all on your own. THAT is the expensive part, not just having children. They just add to it.

 

JMO as a divorced mom of two teens :).

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It's cheapest when you have an uncontested divorce and you both agree on how your splitting your assets before you contact an attorney, or better yet you do the paperwork / court filings yourselves and skip the lawyers entirely. It's when you get Lawyers involved is when things get expensive quickly. If she's angry at you and wants to get revenge, she can fight your over every household item, so she makes her demands known to her lawyer, her lawyer tells you lawyer, your lawyer tell you, you give a response. It ends up costing you both $300 each in legal fees for that $20 item, and so on. The only people who win in a bitter divorce is the lawyers.

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CautiouslyOptimistic
It's cheapest when you have an uncontested divorce and you both agree on how your splitting your assets before you contact an attorney, or better yet you do the paperwork / court filings yourselves and skip the lawyers entirely. It's when you get Lawyers involved is when things get expensive quickly. If she's angry at you and wants to get revenge, she can fight your over every household item, so she makes her demands known to her lawyer, her lawyer tells you lawyer, your lawyer tell you, you give a response. It ends up costing you both $300 each in legal fees for that $20 item, and so on. The only people who win in a bitter divorce is the lawyers.

 

So so true. I've seen friends use attorneys when they absolutely do not have to.....or at least can STOP using them at some point in the process, but somehow have in their heads that they have to be used until the end. Every single phone call costs money, no matter what it's about. It's insane.

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Divorce is the No 1 reason for filing Bankruptcy.

 

I know someone who got a divorce after 10 years. They both went to the court house together, gathered up the paper work, went home and divided everything up, went back to the court house and filed the papers then bought each other lunch. Cost was $50 plus lunch.

 

There's property, finance and children to deal with in most case and sometimes a few misc things depending in the couples circumstances.

 

 

Mine was contested where the other party wanted the kids full time, the house and everything in it, 4 cars, alimony, retirement funds, more child support than I make in a month plus me paying off her moms credit cards and a made up loan from her family plus her attorneys fees. 3 years and $60K in legal fees later and that's just my part, I expect the other parties were a bit more than that, Our judge split everything 50/50.

 

Sometimes it cheaper to keep her.

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Brian Eno's Cousin

Thank you this is noted on the lawyer situation. Of course I will try very hard not to get any involved. I will be going into it completely uncontested, and we can work out the furniture etc. I have half a mind to just my partner have everything except for my clothes and half my 401K. With my paychecks I will be able to start putting together a life.

 

Which leads me to a horrifying question: Can my paychecks be held up during divorce proceedings? Like, if my partner did try to go with a scorched earth lawyer type scene? In the beginning my bi-weekly paychecks will be my lifeline. Without them I'll be sleeping at the office and showering at the gym.

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It's *supposed* to be cheaper and less complicated. But.. just make sure your ex-SO doesn't come after you for something in future? There was a story I heard of this older guy where his ex-ex wife tried to go after a portion of his company pension based on the fact that they were married once 30 years ago.

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Brian Eno's Cousin

And yes, Mr. Me, it would definitely be cheaper to keep. I've considered that. Worked on it for years and years and years. I'm ready. But I'm sorry that happened you. Does it make you bitter? I just don't want to ever be bitter.

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I just don't want to ever be bitter.

 

LOL!! Well, some things you can't control. But for the most part, I believe people are the type of people they have been raised to be. So if you the type of person who is laid back and lets things slide off your back and not bother you too much -- you should be fine.

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Whoa' date=' JJ, that's scary right there. These are the types of stories that terrify me in a very real way.[/quote']

 

 

Well, thats just a story. It also might be specific and restricted to the jurisdiction (in this case Ontario) and the particular person's income.

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If your court has self-help and you and your spouse agree on things it could very well be that easy, and cheap, depending on who files and how poor they are. The court may also assist with filing fees. Self-help may also recommend free or low-cost mediation which can assist with drafting a settlement agreement.

 

The main asset is the 401K and making sure that is handled properly. If it's substantial (I use the 1% rule regarding legal fees on specific assets), get legal advice on it, or 1K per 100K of imputed value. 3-4 hours of lawyer time on a deal like that can turn over a lot of stones. Don't like them but I like preserving the sweat off my brow more, as should you regarding yours.

 

Everything varies by jurisdiction but your court will have the basics and you can start there. Good luck!

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staggerlee71

This should be uncontested. The only think is the 401k. And unless that is a huge sum, plenty of penalties will be had to split it.

 

My uncontested divorce was 700.00. she didn't want half my 401k.

 

No lawyers, paid a service to file paperwork

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Brian Eno's Cousin

Gotcha'.

 

So, it seems that it actually is probably easier with no money and no kids as long as you are willing to struggle for a little bit while making a new life for yourself.

 

You know what else terrifies me? Social media. I don't use it personally, but what if my partner goes on a rampage on there and slanders my name far and wide? To quote The National, "Put it on me, I really don't care, it's a foregone conclusion." I really wish I could think that way. Like The National. But i can't. That aspect is scary. I bet there's some horror stories about that type of thing on here, huh?

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Gotcha'.

 

So, it seems that it actually is probably easier with no money and no kids as long as you are willing to struggle for a little bit while making a new life for yourself.

 

You know what else terrifies me? Social media. I don't use it personally, but what if my partner goes on a rampage on there and slanders my name far and wide? To quote The National, "Put it on me, I really don't care, it's a foregone conclusion." I really wish I could think that way. Like The National. But i can't. That aspect is scary. I bet there's some horror stories about that type of thing on here, huh?

 

if you partner wants to make a fool of themselves on social -- not much you can do about it. they come come across as a crazy person in public -- not you --as long as you keep quiet.

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staggerlee71

One last thing I learned. My 401K was substantial to me but after dividing it, which would include lawyers, and penalties, there in effect wasn't enough money. My lawyer buddy told me that as a lawyer, there wasn't enough to fight over so no lawyer would have taken the case. It was bout 50,000.00 at that time.

 

So since your prepared to give her half, its a total financial decision. easy peasy.

 

Lastly, social media came up in the case before me in court. Petty and lots of fighting. hurtful posts etc. Judge said he has no jurisdiction so nothing could be done. His words to that couple" Grow up and start doing whats right for your child" I am in NJ

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Brian Eno's Cousin

Ohhhh, that's good to know. I was basing the 401K panic on a friend of mine who divorced her husband and spent lots of time and lawyers fees going after his 401K. He was a big $$$$ dude so that thing was probably a half million or more. Mine is more in your range, so that makes me feel better.

 

Being a "financially modest" individual really helps with divorcing, it seems. And not having rugrats.

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todreaminblue

its really good to know the person well before getting involved in any relationship.....if you feel certain hesitation in regards to trusting that person to be discreet if you were to break up...then that would be a red flag to you...i have always believed what you put into a relationship should be what you get if you break up..what you started with is what you should leave with and then the rest if mutually earned should be split...

 

i was left destitute and debt ridden when i split with my ex... we have three girls so it was a struggle for a while and i have two children also from a previous relationship....we kept our family out of court and came to private agreement about child support.....

 

if two individuals are willing to compromise i dont feel courts are necessary .....if you care for someone truly you wont want to put them through hardship or for them to lose out from knowing and being with you...you will want them better for knowing you not worse off........even if the break up wasnt plain and simple....

 

no break up is easy...but people can go easy on each other when breaking up....for me the best possible situation in regards to marrying someone...is that it will never end in divorce...because i dont believe marriages should ever end...they arent meant to end...and for that reason alone is possibly why i am single now and never married.....if i ever do marry ...it will be my only one.....

 

 

worry about divorce isnt a reason not to marry....you have to trust the one you are with and that person trust you.....if divorce does happen or ends up happening....you face that possibility when it comes......deb

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staggerlee71

Its a simple as:

 

I have 50,000. She gets 25,000. I give it to her.

 

or

 

I have 50,000. She gets 25,000. We fight over it. I incur retainer fees. lawyer fees, time. then penalties. That equals X dollars. is that worth more or less than 25,000 and is it substantial.

 

Uncontested divorce means you agree to ALL terms before court. And only the filer needs to show because your not fighting over anything.

 

you should have some idea if she is or not going to go for an uncontested.

I was lucky enough to have an ex wife who was logical enough to realize, although not happy, there was nothing REALLY to fight over except feeling

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Another raised hand for having had an easy and uncontested divorce. We did have lawyers to look after us, but neither of us wanted to fight about stuff. In our situation, we did have some assets, but decided just to split it pro rata according to the percentage we brought in.

 

In the end, my lawyer congratulated us and said that more divorces should be this simple.

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Examine the strategy of asset substitution, bifurcation, or borrowing against the 401K to negotiate a settlement presuming the 401K is a point of contention.

 

As an example, I gave my exW a house and she left my place and the business alone. That's asset substitution. She took an equity position in a home versus cash. My lawyer impoverished me to make the asset more enticing since it was acquired post-M versus my place coming into the M with nearly 20 years of ownership under my belt. The trick is knowing what the departing spouse really wants and figuring out an equitable strategy to get them there without substantially damaging oneself. In your case, the retirement plan is the focus asset. Figure out how to make a win-win deal on that and you'll be golden.

 

Bifurcation would be divorcing today and agreeing to settle the financial stuff down the road, if that makes things easier with your particular asset/income mix

 

Borrowing against the asset is obvious. You borrow the settlement, pay off, then repay the loan out of income, presuming the particular 401K can be borrowed against and it's cost-effective to do so. Those numbers can be crunched, including tax ramifications.

 

Examine your options and one will rise to the top. Start with the court's web site for specifics and call up their family law division on the self-help thing and filing fee waivers.

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staggerlee71
Examine the strategy of asset substitution, bifurcation, or borrowing against the 401K to negotiate a settlement presuming the 401K is a point of contention.

 

As an example, I gave my exW a house and she left my place and the business alone. That's asset substitution. She took an equity position in a home versus cash. My lawyer impoverished me to make the asset more enticing since it was acquired post-M versus my place coming into the M with nearly 20 years of ownership under my belt. The trick is knowing what the departing spouse really wants and figuring out an equitable strategy to get them there without substantially damaging oneself. In your case, the retirement plan is the focus asset. Figure out how to make a win-win deal on that and you'll be golden.

 

Bifurcation would be divorcing today and agreeing to settle the financial stuff down the road, if that makes things easier with your particular asset/income mix

 

Borrowing against the asset is obvious. You borrow the settlement, pay off, then repay the loan out of income, presuming the particular 401K can be borrowed against and it's cost-effective to do so. Those numbers can be crunched, including tax ramifications.

 

Examine your options and one will rise to the top. Start with the court's web site for specifics and call up their family law division on the self-help thing and filing fee waivers.

 

This line of thinking is as good as it gets

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