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Is It Easier If You're Poor & Don't have Kids?


Separation and Divorce Considering ending your marriage? Going through a divorce? Let us know!

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Old 2nd January 2018, 5:33 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Brian Eno's Cousin View Post
Gotcha'.

So, it seems that it actually is probably easier with no money and no kids as long as you are willing to struggle for a little bit while making a new life for yourself.

You know what else terrifies me? Social media. I don't use it personally, but what if my partner goes on a rampage on there and slanders my name far and wide? To quote The National, "Put it on me, I really don't care, it's a foregone conclusion." I really wish I could think that way. Like The National. But i can't. That aspect is scary. I bet there's some horror stories about that type of thing on here, huh?
if you partner wants to make a fool of themselves on social -- not much you can do about it. they come come across as a crazy person in public -- not you --as long as you keep quiet.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 5:50 PM   #17
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True dat, JJ.

This is giving me an adrenaline rush. From the fear.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 5:51 PM   #18
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One last thing I learned. My 401K was substantial to me but after dividing it, which would include lawyers, and penalties, there in effect wasn't enough money. My lawyer buddy told me that as a lawyer, there wasn't enough to fight over so no lawyer would have taken the case. It was bout 50,000.00 at that time.

So since your prepared to give her half, its a total financial decision. easy peasy.

Lastly, social media came up in the case before me in court. Petty and lots of fighting. hurtful posts etc. Judge said he has no jurisdiction so nothing could be done. His words to that couple" Grow up and start doing whats right for your child" I am in NJ
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Old 2nd January 2018, 5:56 PM   #19
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Ohhhh, that's good to know. I was basing the 401K panic on a friend of mine who divorced her husband and spent lots of time and lawyers fees going after his 401K. He was a big $$$$ dude so that thing was probably a half million or more. Mine is more in your range, so that makes me feel better.

Being a "financially modest" individual really helps with divorcing, it seems. And not having rugrats.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 6:01 PM   #20
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its really good to know the person well before getting involved in any relationship.....if you feel certain hesitation in regards to trusting that person to be discreet if you were to break up...then that would be a red flag to you...i have always believed what you put into a relationship should be what you get if you break up..what you started with is what you should leave with and then the rest if mutually earned should be split...

i was left destitute and debt ridden when i split with my ex... we have three girls so it was a struggle for a while and i have two children also from a previous relationship....we kept our family out of court and came to private agreement about child support.....

if two individuals are willing to compromise i dont feel courts are necessary .....if you care for someone truly you wont want to put them through hardship or for them to lose out from knowing and being with you...you will want them better for knowing you not worse off........even if the break up wasnt plain and simple....

no break up is easy...but people can go easy on each other when breaking up....for me the best possible situation in regards to marrying someone...is that it will never end in divorce...because i dont believe marriages should ever end...they arent meant to end...and for that reason alone is possibly why i am single now and never married.....if i ever do marry ...it will be my only one.....


worry about divorce isnt a reason not to marry....you have to trust the one you are with and that person trust you.....if divorce does happen or ends up happening....you face that possibility when it comes......deb
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Old 2nd January 2018, 6:06 PM   #21
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Its a simple as:

I have 50,000. She gets 25,000. I give it to her.

or

I have 50,000. She gets 25,000. We fight over it. I incur retainer fees. lawyer fees, time. then penalties. That equals X dollars. is that worth more or less than 25,000 and is it substantial.

Uncontested divorce means you agree to ALL terms before court. And only the filer needs to show because your not fighting over anything.

you should have some idea if she is or not going to go for an uncontested.
I was lucky enough to have an ex wife who was logical enough to realize, although not happy, there was nothing REALLY to fight over except feeling
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Old 2nd January 2018, 6:09 PM   #22
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Another raised hand for having had an easy and uncontested divorce. We did have lawyers to look after us, but neither of us wanted to fight about stuff. In our situation, we did have some assets, but decided just to split it pro rata according to the percentage we brought in.

In the end, my lawyer congratulated us and said that more divorces should be this simple.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 6:24 PM   #23
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Examine the strategy of asset substitution, bifurcation, or borrowing against the 401K to negotiate a settlement presuming the 401K is a point of contention.

As an example, I gave my exW a house and she left my place and the business alone. That's asset substitution. She took an equity position in a home versus cash. My lawyer impoverished me to make the asset more enticing since it was acquired post-M versus my place coming into the M with nearly 20 years of ownership under my belt. The trick is knowing what the departing spouse really wants and figuring out an equitable strategy to get them there without substantially damaging oneself. In your case, the retirement plan is the focus asset. Figure out how to make a win-win deal on that and you'll be golden.

Bifurcation would be divorcing today and agreeing to settle the financial stuff down the road, if that makes things easier with your particular asset/income mix

Borrowing against the asset is obvious. You borrow the settlement, pay off, then repay the loan out of income, presuming the particular 401K can be borrowed against and it's cost-effective to do so. Those numbers can be crunched, including tax ramifications.

Examine your options and one will rise to the top. Start with the court's web site for specifics and call up their family law division on the self-help thing and filing fee waivers.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 6:30 PM   #24
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Examine the strategy of asset substitution, bifurcation, or borrowing against the 401K to negotiate a settlement presuming the 401K is a point of contention.

As an example, I gave my exW a house and she left my place and the business alone. That's asset substitution. She took an equity position in a home versus cash. My lawyer impoverished me to make the asset more enticing since it was acquired post-M versus my place coming into the M with nearly 20 years of ownership under my belt. The trick is knowing what the departing spouse really wants and figuring out an equitable strategy to get them there without substantially damaging oneself. In your case, the retirement plan is the focus asset. Figure out how to make a win-win deal on that and you'll be golden.

Bifurcation would be divorcing today and agreeing to settle the financial stuff down the road, if that makes things easier with your particular asset/income mix

Borrowing against the asset is obvious. You borrow the settlement, pay off, then repay the loan out of income, presuming the particular 401K can be borrowed against and it's cost-effective to do so. Those numbers can be crunched, including tax ramifications.

Examine your options and one will rise to the top. Start with the court's web site for specifics and call up their family law division on the self-help thing and filing fee waivers.
This line of thinking is as good as it gets
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Old 3rd January 2018, 1:01 PM   #25
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Thanks very much, Carhill. Very logical. This all makes a brother feel much, much better.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 1:18 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by staggerlee71 View Post
One last thing I learned. My 401K was substantial to me but after dividing it, which would include lawyers, and penalties, there in effect wasn't enough money.
This is why I gave the Ex $6,000 for the differences in our 401k amounts. There was a $12,000 difference between what her retirement plans had and what mine had. I divided the difference by 50% and gave her $6,000 full value for the amount, it saved a lot of hassle trying to split it up to give her, her share. She really made out better anyway, considering she was getting the share tax free.

I think her having her own business certainly helped make her more agreeable to a fair settlement. All in all still cost me 30k, and yea I could have reduced that about by 5k or 10k, with a lawyer probably would have charged me twice as much.

Last edited by AngryGromit; 3rd January 2018 at 1:33 PM..
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Old 3rd January 2018, 2:16 PM   #27
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Hi Brian, good to know that you have benefitted from all the advice freely given here re your impending divorce/ separation from your SO. However, as a point of interest can you let us know the reasons why you want to go down that road? How long have you and your SO been together and are you married or in a common law relationship? Divorce/ Separation is a very final kind of a thing. Something like death. Have either of you been involved in infidelity or is it plain incompatibility? You don't have to answer but it would be good to know. Thanks.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 6:41 PM   #28
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Hi Just,

Sorry I haven't been focusing on the actual nuts and bolts of the potentially impending divorce. At this point I just feel as if I am past all that and want it done already. But a brutally honest snapshot can be found right here:

When we married six years ago (together for ten) she was a positive, ambitious, good-humored individual. A successful artist. We had many things in common, and the main thing that sealed the deal was that we live together nicely, just on a coexistence level. Perfectly in sync. We travel well as well. These aspects still hold true for the most part, but as for my wife? Well, that person I met back then just doesn't exist any more. It really trips me out when I try to think about it. She's literally not there. Her shell has been inhabited by this negative, dark, lazy, acidic, borderline hostile individual. Most evenings, such as this one, it fills me with abject dread just to go home. What will the mood be? Will tonight be misery for me? Most often it isn't, mind you, but the times when it is? I just want to RUN. Right then and there. I'm a chipper, lover of life type of individual, happy go lucky, and to put it bluntly she is simply making me miserable.

She quit her art completely (doesn't even do it for fun anymore) and is really bitter about it. I'm still going at it strong. The job she got when she quit? Hates it. Comes home crying. But does she do anything about it? Nope. Lots of big plans, but nothing followed through on. Me, I love my career and have been doing really well. These differences might be ok if she hadn't, over the past two years, started to attack me. She's gotten it into her head that if we could move to some out of the way place she would suddenly be inspired and everything would be right as rain. Which is a fine thing to think.....but I must admit I'm not convinced. I just don't see it in her anymore. My career and entire life are right here, not to mention the fact that I love it here, and I'm just not willing to give it all up on a whim, and if I did make this sacrifice, and months passed and there was still no "inspiration" and she was STILL lying there for hours staring at an iPad....then it would be divorce anyway. And in my heart of hearts I know this would be the scenario. Meanwhile, the attacks get stronger and more frequent. Things I've long considered red flags have been waved from the hillsides. I come under fire for not making enough money (because if I did she wouldn't have to work). I come under fire for "forcing her" to live here when she no longer wants to. I come under fire for not being more successful in selling/promoting my art. The person I married would not be saying these things. The person I married was a true artist who cared nothing for luxuries and was an independently motivated individual. This person attacking me is IN NO WAY the person I married. I don't want to be married to this new person. I don't even know who that is. I wouldn't even give this person the time of day meeting her now. And hey, if I'm such a loser then I'd rather just go off and be a loser and not burden anyone with it, or find someone who loves my loser ass just the way it is.

I look at old photographs. Then I look at her. It's the same person on the exterior. So where did she go?

I smoke SO MUCH POT to try to mute this long slide into misery and, though it once worked, it doesn't anymore. It enhances it. So I stopped a week ago and took a look around and, dear god, this situation is not good.

I try to take solace in our nice apartment, the fact that we still connect on some levels. This too used to work. It doesn't anymore.

In my darkest moments I actually cringe when I think about her or see her.

Everywhere i go, every book I read, every movie I watch, every street i walk down, I'm constantly looking for an ESCAPE.

For a while I thought an "out" would present itself, like a beacon light in heavy fog, but now I know this won't happen.

Now I know what I have to do.

The time has come to divide that 401K.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 6:51 PM   #29
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Thanks for sharing your story. It can be so very draining to be with a such a negative person . I hope she can recognize she needs some help, and I hope you find happiness.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 7:58 PM   #30
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Thanks very much for that.

It IS draining.

I've suggested therapy but she doesn't think a stranger can help her.

The interesting thing is, she most likely has no idea just how close I am to doing this. I'm not a big shouter or fighter. Just quitely biding my time.

A one man conspiracy.
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