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Post Natal Depression?


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Background:

 

My Wife gave birth to our second child at the start of spring last year. At the beginning of last year I came home from work and she flipped out and went absolutely crazy at me because I sat down for 5 minutes. She was physically violent with me and drew blood on my face. SHE called the cops and tried to accuse ME of domestic abuse! The cops arrived and asked me if I wanted to press charges on her - which of course I said no as she was pregnant and I did not want to cause her any stress. So they took no further action.

 

I went to see my doctor and they advised me to just keep a low profile until after the pregnancy. I asked her to go and speak to her doctor as I was worried her strange behavior was linked to the pregnancy and I wanted her and baby to be safe. Anyway she got irate when I told her I'd been to see my doctor and she could do the same.

 

Anyway her behavior didn't get any more normal. One night shortly after this event she went outside pacing up and down around midnight in front of the house in the freezing cold rain. I enlisted the help of her parents who seemed supportive and understanding and also put it down to her hormones linked to the pregnancy. Her mum told me my wife just didn't enjoy being pregnant and that things would improve after she gave birth. Her dad said pretty much the same - it was her pregnancy hormones and laughed the thing off. Her parents live far away so it is difficult for them to help.

 

So we would have arguments over nothing in particular instigated by her. I would say there were two or three of these. I would try and get out of her way when she flared up and move to a different room in the house. She could not leave me alone and would pursue me and even broke the lock off a door to get to me.

 

One argument that springs to mind is that we were in the kitchen and she starts hitting me, I hold her arms to stop her and she runs over to the other side of the kitchen and says look what you've done to my arms - that's domestic abuse! I was shocked. SHE attacked ME. There were no marks on her arms that I could see. Anyway I put it down to lack of sleep with the new baby and gave her the benefit of the doubt.

 

Advance to the summer. My wife and I have an argument about the way she disciplined our eldest daughter. I was not happy with her actions and we ended up shouting at each other and arguing. AGAIN she calls the Cops! The cops arrive, talk to us both and take no further action saying its just an argument. I asked her why she kept on calling the cops like this and her response that she felt far away from her family and did not know who else to call.

 

So my wife returns back to work after only six months maternity leave as there is a financial incentive for her doing so (although we were doing fine financially). I fully supported her decision to do this as she seemed happier when she was at work. The children had to stay in childcare - but I didn't mind if it meant we had a happy family.

 

Advance to the start of autumn. My wife gets up one morning in a horrendous mood. Starts shouting at me, blaming me for everything. I take our eldest daughter out of the house to try and give my wife a bit of a break. Anyway we come back a few hours later and she is still VERY VERY angry at nothing in particular. I worry that she is going a bit crazy and move some of my things into my car. She chases me around the house and starts attacking me when I try to get out of the door. She tried to headbutt and bite me.

 

Anyway I manage to get out of the house - drive around for a couple of hours and decide to come back to the house. I arrive to find her with one of her girl friends. Her friend eventually goes, and my wife told me that her friend told her to divorce me. She got bruises on her arms where I held her off when she tried to headbutt and bite me as I was leaving the house and must have blamed these on me - her friend was not there when she was acting crazy trying to headbutt and bite me. AGAIN my wife tells me that she has called the cops! They don't arrive until next morning and take statements from us both but take no further action. I later learned that my wife made a false allegation of domestic violence against me but admitted it was a lie to the cops.

 

Everything seems to calm down after that. We both went to marriage counseling and all seemed fine. Fast-forward to one month later. I arrive home after work, after taking our eldest child to school in the morning (which I did every morning), EVERYTHING was gone from our eldest child's room, the nursery had been stripped bare, half the furniture in the house had gone. Fearing what would happen next I immediately got the locks changed on the house. Later that evening I have an email from my wife telling me that she needs space, and that I may have lost her but not the children. She says she doesn't like the person she has become living with me (we have been married for a decade). I later find out that her father has come and moved all the things out of the family home. The same father that admitted that her previous problems were hormonal and linked to the pregnancy.

 

So she doesn't tell me where she is and stops me seeing the children for several days. She finally meets me and lets me see the children. She tells me she's renting somewhere for six months and says she doesn't love me anymore. She eventually tells me where she lives - and its 10 minutes away in the same town.

 

We attend mediation a couple of weeks after she left to arrange a schedule for the children to see us both. My wife became VERY angry when the mediator told her that she may not be able to take the children to her parents at Christmas (they live in another country). My wife threatens me that she will take me to court and make allegations of domestic abuse against me so I must be conciliatory and let her have exactly what she wants (I have a recording of this). The mediator told her to wait a couple of weeks. She could not. Next thing I know I have court papers through the door for a hearing where she is going to attempt to force me let her take the children to her parents at Christmas, and severely limit our children's access to me.

 

During the exchanges of the children, when she comes to the family home she kept on trying to force her way in - causing distress to our oldest child who could not understand why mum could not come into the house (how do you explain to a child that mum cannot come into the house because she is threatening to tell horrible lies about dad?). So I apply for and was granted a restraining order to stop her doing this.

 

Fast forward to now. I told my wife it was 50/50 custody or nothing. She agreed. Given her strange behavior I think I could have got full custody, but lawyers are expensive, and the children need to see their mother. Even the judge at the custody hearing suggested to her that her current state of mind could be linked to her pregnancy.

 

The one thing I have noticed is that each time my wife called the cops it was within a few days of us returning from her parents. This seems too much of a coincidence to ignore.

 

I'm trying to move on with my life. Having read around similar situations this seems to be the only option. She has moved out and broken up the family for what? I did not want this, and do not think this is the best way to bring up children. I only deal with my wife regarding the children now.

 

I have spoken to a therapist about everything and they say that my wife is putting herself as the victim and must have an aggressor and a rescuer. She casts me as the aggressor so that she can be rescued by a white knight. This seems to fit with BPD - I'm no expert in this field so I can't say for sure. Could the pregnancy have shifted her along the BPD spectrum for example?

 

I would have done and did do anything for my wife. I would never ever be violent to her. I have shouted back at her when she has shouted at me during her instigated arguments and I wish I had not. I was very caring and was always there for her. It has been painful beyond description to have my children taken from me by her in this way. My wife will no let our youngest stay overnight until SHE says she has finished breast feeding. I am really missing seeing my youngest every night and morning. I really miss my beautiful family.

 

I cannot understand why my wife has acted like this. Her sister was treated for post-natal psychosis and I worried that there could be a connection. Any time I bought this up or suggested that my wife may need help she accused me of saying she is mad. The children are definitely mine (I thought the contrary would be an explanation but it is not the case).

 

I just don't know what to do. She is my wife but she has acted appallingly. She wants us to be "friends" but I cannot see how after all she has done. She wants to have her cake and eat it. She says she wants to start dating again. I've given her the benefit of the doubt so many times as I thought it was linked to the pregnancy - but it now seems to be going on too long for this still to be the case?

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ShatteredLady

Has her behavior ever been iratic before pregnancy?

How would you describe her 'normal' behavior prior?

How would you rate your marriage before this pregnancy?

What were the major prior issues in your marriage?

 

What was she like during her first pregnancy?

 

Untreated postnatal mental issues can last a long time. Paranoid psychosis can be triggered by pregnancy hormones.

 

NOTHING makes an angry resentful person more fuming than being called crazy!

 

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just trying to get a clearer picture of what's going-on. It sounds awful but I'd rather not jump to conclusions.

 

Is it possible she was/is having an affair?

What was she claiming when she raged? What are your faults in her mind?

 

Did you attend any of her/your babies medical appointments during pregnancy & after birth? Did she lie to the doctors about her mental state? My doctors were as focused on me as they were my babies. I have a large birthmark that looks like bruising when exposed to the sun. Every single medical professional questioned it!!

 

If your description is completely accurate & you're not leaving anything out I'd be VERY worried about your children in her custody. With all the false police reports why don't you apply for (temporary) custody with supervised visitation? The results of untreated psychosis can be tragic you only have to check the news!!

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Very occasionally e.g. not believing my phone not working so she snatched out of my hands and went through call log.

 

Violent with me shortly before we were engaged (scratched my back in an argument).

 

Kicked me in the ribs once during an argument.

 

Normal behaviour prior - very career focused. But a good mother. Sometimes lacking confidence in herself.

 

Marriage was ok before pregnancy. We did see marriage guidance after first child. She had this thing where she would look back and rewrite history. Like saying I did nothing to help which was just not true. I helped with everything- changing diapers, feeding, bathing etc etc. I was very attentive to my wife too. Anyway things seemed good. She really wanted another child and so did I.

 

Again she has re-written history and now says she wanted a second child because she thought it would make her happy - suggesting she was not before?

 

My faults in her mind seemed to change according to her mood. One day she would say she couldn't rely on me - I was always there and did anything she needed. Other times she would say I was not there for her emotionally - again I was. I loved my wife and was always there emotionally.

 

I attended all of the ultrasound scans and some of the medical appointments with her.

 

I was extremely concerned about our children's safety after she left and children's services investigated her but didn't seem to have any concerns. I worry that she can present a facade that masks what's going on underneath.

 

 

Has her behavior ever been iratic before pregnancy?

How would you describe her 'normal' behavior prior?

How would you rate your marriage before this pregnancy?

What were the major prior issues in your marriage?

 

What was she like during her first pregnancy?

 

Untreated postnatal mental issues can last a long time. Paranoid psychosis can be triggered by pregnancy hormones.

 

NOTHING makes an angry resentful person more fuming than being called crazy!

 

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just trying to get a clearer picture of what's going-on. It sounds awful but I'd rather not jump to conclusions.

 

Is it possible she was/is having an affair?

What was she claiming when she raged? What are your faults in her mind?

 

Did you attend any of her/your babies medical appointments during pregnancy & after birth? Did she lie to the doctors about her mental state? My doctors were as focused on me as they were my babies. I have a large birthmark that looks like bruising when exposed to the sun. Every single medical professional questioned it!!

 

If your description is completely accurate & you're not leaving anything out I'd be VERY worried about your children in her custody. With all the false police reports why don't you apply for (temporary) custody with supervised visitation? The results of untreated psychosis can be tragic you only have to check the news!!

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I am no expert in post natal depression but this sounds way too severe for it. I also would be worried for the safety of the children. How old is your oldest child? The least you guys can do is to agree not to disclose stuff to your older child. Kids should not be choosing sides.

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Oldest child is 6 years old.

Even the Judge at the custody hearing suggested her behaviour could be hormonal to her. She just broke down and wept. It was horrific. I just feel like there is nothing I can do.

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Jersey born raised

I assume you are close to the border for her to see her parents regularly. You need to see a lawyer and make sure she cannot take the kids out of the country

 

You also need to read downtown posts http://www.loveshack.org/forums/members/84986-downtown/. Also you need to record all conversations with her!! She has already accused you three times to the police!

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Jersey born raised

There is a registry customs does keep for court orders barring a child from leaving the US. Even with a passport they will stop her.

 

Next get your kids passports, social security and birth certificate put them in a safe deposit box in your name only.

 

Secure yourself financially.

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Oldest child is 6 years old.

Even the Judge at the custody hearing suggested her behaviour could be hormonal to her. She just broke down and wept. It was horrific. I just feel like there is nothing I can do.

 

If it is hormonal, noone can help her if she doesn't want to be helped. The only thing you can do is try to avoid the arguments as much as possible and maybe even call police yourself if situation is getting our of control. Also, make sure you have witnesses when you exchange children or any time you interact with her in person.

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I have spoken to a therapist about everything and they say that my wife is putting herself as the victim and must have an aggressor and a rescuer. She casts me as the aggressor so that she can be rescued by a white knight. This seems to fit with BPD.
Yes, AlChem, you are describing traits of Borderline Personality Disorder. Specifically, the behaviors you mention -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, verbal and physical abuse, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD.

 

Could the pregnancy have shifted her along the BPD spectrum for example?
Yes, absolutely. The nine BPD traits listed in the APA's diagnostic manual do not describe the disorder itself because nobody has yet proven what type of disorder is causing these behaviors. Rather, the nine traits simply describe the behaviors that arise from this (unproven) disorder.

 

Because the BPD traits shown in the diagnostic manual are simply a pattern of behaviors (not a proven disease), BPD is not something that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, as you say. That means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums.

 

Keep in mind that the most common cause of strong BPD traits is not the BPD disorder itself but, rather, hormone changes. This is why a large share of adolescents start exhibiting full-blown BPD behavior for a couple of years during puberty. Indeed, such a large share of teens exhibit strong BPD traits that psychologists generally refuse to diagnose BPD in anyone younger than 18.

 

Similarly, it is common for women to exhibit a strong flareup of their BPD traits during pregnancy, postpartum, PMS, and perimenopause if they experience strong hormone changes. So, yes, your W may have experienced a hormone change that moved her to the upper end of the BPD spectrum for a year or two. Although pregnancy lasts less than a year, postpartum hormone changes can last two years and perimenopause typically lasts four years (but can last much longer in some women).

 

SHE called the cops and tried to accuse ME of domestic abuse!
Likewise, my BPDer exW called the cops on me after I pushed her away from a bedroom door she was trying to destroy. Because I was arrested early on a Saturday morning, I was in jail for nearly 3 full days before I had a chance to go before the judge in arraignment. When I got out, I found that my exW had obtained a R/O that prevented me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a divorce in this State).

 

She was physically violent with me and drew blood on my face. SHE called the cops and tried to accuse ME of domestic abuse! ....She chases me around the house and starts attacking me when I try to get out of the door. She tried to headbutt and bite me.
The physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

 

I thought it was linked to the pregnancy - but it now seems to be going on too long for this still to be the case?
Like I said above, the hormone surge can be caused by pregnancy and by postpartum. So it is possible that her hormones will be surging for 2 or 3 years.

 

I just don't know what to do.
I suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join JerseyBorn and the other respondents in discussing them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Only a professional can determine whether her BPD traits are so severe and so persistent as to constitute full-blown BPD (as opposed to a BPD flareup caused by hormones). Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation. Take care, AlChem.

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So what do I do? Wait to see if she calms down? Should I ever let her come back? I feel like she has taken so much - she has destroyed our family for no reason.

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I have spoken to a therapist about everything and they say that my wife is putting herself as the victim and must have an aggressor and a rescuer.
AlChem, when you say you spoke with "a therapist," are you referring to a marriage counselor, a therapist with a masters degree, or a psychologist (having a PhD degree)?

 

So what do I do? Wait to see if she calms down?
IMO, the answer depends heavily on whether your W is suffering from only a temporary flareup of BPD traits or, instead, from a lifetime problem with BPD. If your therapist does not have a PhD degree (or is not very experienced with PDs), I would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your children are dealing with.

 

If your W really does suffer from a lifetime problem with strong BPD traits, there is some risk that one of your kids could inherit the problem. There is no large-scale study showing what that risk is but several very small studies suggest that it is in the range of 20% to 30% for a child having one BPDer parent.

 

But there is no such risk to your children if -- as you suspect -- your W's strong BPD traits are only a temporary flareup due to hormone changes. Are you sure that you were not seeing strong BPD traits before the pregnancy occurred? You seem to say that you did not see strong BPD traits for the first 9 years or so. Specifically, you say "Marriage was ok before pregnancy." And you say, "Normal behaviour prior."

On the other hand, you seem to suggest that some aberrant, abusive behavior existed much earlier than the second pregnancy. Specifically, you say:

Very occasionally e.g. not believing my phone not working
so
she snatched out of my hands and went through call log. Violent with me shortly before we were engaged (scratched my back in an argument). Kicked me in the ribs once during an argument.

This is why I suggested earlier that you read my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs and my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. An important issue is whether you were seeing strong occurrences of most warning signs before the second pregnancy. If you were, please tell us which signs were strong.

 

Regardless of whether you discuss this with us, it would be prudent to discuss it with a psychologist who has not seen or treated your W. That way, you are assured that the psych is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests, not hers. This assurance is important because therapists generally are loath to tell any high functioning client who is suffering from lifetime BPD the name of her disorder -- because it usually is not in the interest of such clients (or their spouses) to be told.

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AlChem, when you say you spoke with "a therapist," are you referring to a marriage counselor, a therapist with a masters degree, or a psychologist (having a PhD degree)?

 

This was just a normal therapist with a masters degree whom I spoke to just to get over the shock of coming home and all my family being gone.

 

 

But there is no such risk to your children if -- as you suspect -- your W's strong BPD traits are only a temporary flareup due to hormone changes. Are you sure that you were not seeing strong BPD traits before the pregnancy occurred? You seem to say that you did not see strong BPD traits for the first 9 years or so. Specifically, you say "Marriage was ok before pregnancy." And you say, "Normal behaviour prior."

On the other hand, you seem to suggest that some aberrant, abusive behavior existed much earlier than the second pregnancy. Specifically, you say:

Very occasionally e.g. not believing my phone not working
so
she snatched out of my hands and went through call log. Violent with me shortly before we were engaged (scratched my back in an argument). Kicked me in the ribs once during an argument.

 

  • 1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor comment or infraction;
    Yes - observed with both friends and her relations - both before and after pregnancy. Cutting friends off - not wanting to speaking to them. In-laws on her side of the family switching from bad to good and vice versa.

  • 2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
    Yes - observed especially during and after the pregnancy - much less frequent before pregnancy.


  • 3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
    Maybe - she didn't like my parents and always made excuses to not see them / cut their visits short. Throughout marriage.

  • 4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude (e.g., not appreciating all the 3-hour trips you made to see her for two years) and a double standard ;
    Yes - using up ALL my holidays to take her to her parents - not at all thankful. Throughout marriage.

  • 5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
    Only really observed during / after last pregnancy and a few months after first pregnancy but seemed to go away after first, but present during / after second.

  • 6. Frequently creating drama over issues
    so
    minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
    Definitely during / after second pregnancy - not really noticed before. Why call the cops three times?

  • 7. Low self esteem;
    Yes after both pregnancies.

  • 8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums or cold sulking that typically start in seconds and last several hours;
    Much Much Much worse after second pregnancy - seen occasionally before but not as bad.


  • 9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
    No not really seen this.


  • 10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
    Definitely after the second pregnancy, I can't remember it happening before then.

  • 11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
    Her violence after the second pregnancy suggests lack of impulse control?


  • 12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
    No never seen this.

  • 13. Mirroring your personality and preferences
    so
    perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
    I would say our personalities and preferences were pretty well matched in that I would say she was my soul mate. This lasted throughout the marriage which is why the current situation is such a shock.

  • 14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
    Not really - always seemed pretty centered and grounded.

  • 15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has
    so
    little ability to do self soothing;
    Very rarely.

  • 16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
    Not really, but she would cast friends off on a whim.

  • 17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people;
    Yes I've seen this sometimes but I wouldn't say majorly
    and

  • 18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.
    Definitely after the second pregnancy - to the point of gas-lighting unless presented with incontrovertible evidence.

This is why I suggested earlier that you read my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs and my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. An important issue is whether you were seeing strong occurrences of most warning signs before the second pregnancy. If you were, please tell us which signs were strong.

 

Please see my comments in list above in bold. She only exhibited about three of these signs frequently during the marriage. The massive increase of all of the others is really noticeable during and after the second pregnancy.

 

I have gone NC / LC as far as possible since we have 50 / 50 shared custody of the children. From the above list it seems that she may be demonstrating an increase in BPD traits as a result of the pregnancy? I've raised the issue that it could be post-partum depression with my doctors and children's services but they all seem to think its just her decision to end the relationship. She says she just wants to be friends. She wants me to be around to be there when she needs me. Isn't that known as having your cake and eating it?

 

It doesn't make any sense - why would you have a second child (we both really wanted this) and then go and do this a few months later? Why did she tell all of the lies? Why call the cops on me three times in a year? Why then threaten to make more false allegations against me? Why then when she moved out try and force her way back into the house? She even tried to allege I domestically abused her AFTER she moved out - but then retracted it!!! It just makes no sense. We had a good happy family that was working well. We had occasional arguments but I would say we were a good family. Our eldest daughter was doing well, now she is frequently withdrawn and seems to be developing issues with her temper. My wife has turned us both into single parents for no good reason.

 

Its the complete lack of logic in it all that I cannot understand. She's lied to the cops so I must also assume that she has lied to her friends and family - hence why they assisted in moving her out. It is just such a mess

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Her violence after the second pregnancy suggests lack of impulse control?
Yes.

 

From the above list it seems that she may be demonstrating an increase in BPD traits as a result of the pregnancy?
Yes, that is what you seem to be describing. You are describing a woman who went from exhibiting a few of the 18 warning signs -- for ten years -- to exhibiting nearly all of them following the pregnancy.

 

Why did she tell all of the lies?
If she is exhibiting strong BPD traits, she likely BELIEVES the nonsense coming out of her mouth. And, a week later when she is telling a completely different version of events, she likely believes that nonsense too. When a person is exhibiting very strong BPD traits, she is unable to regulate her own emotions. The result is that her feelings become so intense that they distort her perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations.

 

She will continue to see physical reality just fine (which is to say she is not "psychotic" or "crazy" or "insane"). But her perception of your intentions will be greatly distorted and will be dictated by whatever intense feeling she is experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT. When her feeling changes, her perception of you will change just as quickly. That can occur in just ten seconds.

 

Why would you have a second child (we both really wanted this) and then go and do this a few months later?
If her hormones changed greatly and resulted in very intense uncontrolled feelings, the marvel is not that she can completely change her mind "a few months later." Rather, the marvel is that she will do it in a few seconds in response to some minor thing you say or do. This is the way a person exhibiting strong BPD traits behaves because, like a young child, she is emotionally unstable.

 

Why call the cops on me three times in a year?
If she is experiencing a flareup of BPD traits caused by hormones, she called the cops for the same reason that my BPDer exW had me arrested and thrown into jail for 3 days. At the moment she is talking to the police, she truly believes all of the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth. This sincerity and absolute conviction is what makes BPDers so convincing to the police -- and to her friends when she is bad mouthing you.

 

She even tried to allege I domestically abused her AFTER she moved out - but then retracted it!!! It just makes no sense.
Emotionally unstable people don't make sense. Instead, the react to whatever intense feeling and fear they are experiencing at this moment in time. Because the feeling is so intense, they are convinced it MUST be true. They therefore will rationalize it with whatever notion pops into their minds. If you manage to disprove it, they will simply replace that argument with the next one that pops into their minds. Disproving arguments accomplishes nothing because they are convinced that the feeling is a self-evident "fact" that must be true.

 

She's lied to the cops so I must also assume that she has lied to her friends and family - hence why they assisted in moving her out.
When a person is experiencing such intense feelings that she is exhibiting strong BPD traits, she will revert to the black-white thinking you see in young children. Whenever adults experience very intense feelings, our brains are hard-wired to shift to B-W thinking because it usually increases our chance of survival. While in this all-or-nothing thinking mode, she will perceive of you (and everyone who is a friend or family) as "all good" (white) or "all bad" (black). Not surprisingly, when she perceives of you as "all bad" or "against me," she may perceive of you as Hitler incarnate. If so, she will treat you accordingly -- and it won't be pretty.
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Jersey born raised

Keep posting! You are.exactly where you need to be emotionally. Yes I confused and fearful, but rational. Here are some links for you

 

Borderlinepersonalitysupport.com (there are overlaps)

 

What Therapists Don't Tell You About Divorcing A High-Conflict Personality | The Huffington Post

 

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

 

Cycle of Abuse (again overlap)

 

Research the concept of "Gray Rocking and BPD" and discuss with the doctor on how to use it. Be careful though as nothing with make a BPD more crazy then thinking you are treating them crazy.

 

Again "Gray Rocking" research it, it may save your sanity. I have additional questions and thoughts but first read the links I suggested and respond please.

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If she is exhibiting strong BPD traits, she likely BELIEVES the nonsense coming out of her mouth. And, a week later when she is telling a completely different version of events, she likely believes that nonsense too. When a person is exhibiting very strong BPD traits, she is unable to regulate her own emotions. The result is t]at her feelings become so intense that they distort her perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations.

 

This is when I knew something was REALLY not right with her and opened my eyes. She flatly denied saying something in a conversation, but I had a recording of the conversation and there was someone else present too. So I pushed the point again - saying but you did say this. I did this three times then said look I even have a recording of you saying this. At that point she changed her story. What shocked me most was that she did this TWICE on two different occasions when I asked her about the same conversation. (Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me). For me that behavior was just totally bizarre for her.

 

If her hormones changed greatly and resulted in very intense uncontrolled feelings, the marvel is not that she can completely change her mind "a few months later." Rather, the marvel is that she will do it in a few seconds in response to some minor thing you say or do. This is the way a person exhibiting strong BPD traits behaves because, like a young child, she is emotionally unstable.

 

So is this likely to be permanent do you think? She has caused a lot of hurt a damage - but if this is all a result of pregnancy hormones you kind of think she needs to be forgiven. The Judge thought that the fact that she was still breast feeding could be a big influence on her current emotional state.

 

I just find it difficult to see how this could be recoverable. She's told lies to her family (and I presume friends), she's not likely to even realize herself that this is HER distorted version of reality alone? Does that mean in the future she will always be convinced that her lies are the truth - or is there ever likely to be a moment of realization with her?

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Borderlinepersonalitysupport.com (there are overlaps)

I couldn't get this link to work.

 

Do I give her a chance to recover or is divorce the safest route?

 

Research the concept of "Gray Rocking and BPD" and discuss with the doctor on how to use it. Be careful though as nothing with make a BPD more crazy then thinking you are treating them crazy.

 

Again "Gray Rocking" research it, it may save your sanity. I have additional questions and thoughts but first read the links I suggested and respond please.

I've been pretty much adopting this approach to avoid conflict. I still get attempts to create a drama from her though - I just don't rise to it.

 

I can see where the advice about parallel rather than co=parenting is coming from. In the short time we have been co-parenting she frequently attempts to create high drama out of nothing.

 

Its the whole distortion of reality by her that I find most difficult. Keeping logs and recording is the only way to survive the gas-lighting. At one point I was even doubting myself. It really is insidious. She creates her own version of reality - persuades her family and friends this is the case - and it becomes self perpetuating. If her family had not moved her out I don't know what would have happened - either she would have settled down or called the cops again and have me arrested on false allegations.

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So is this likely to be permanent do you think?
AlChem, if your W were to have a permanent condition of strong BPD traits, the damage likely would have occurred before age 5 -- causing her emotional development to freeze at that young age. If that were the case, she would have started exhibiting strong BPD traits in her early teens and they would have been persistent thereafter.

 

When a person has such a permanent problem with BPD, the traits do not disappear for ten years and then suddenly surface. This is why I said you are not describing that type of situation. Of course, I don't know a thing about your W. I therefore can only comment on what you are describing.

 

If this is all a result of pregnancy hormones you kind of think she needs to be forgiven?
In discussing the difference between a temporary BPD flareup and a lifetime BPD problem, I am trying to give you information that may explain your W's strange behaviors. Importantly, trying to explain her bad behavior does not imply we are trying to excuse it.

 

Even if her perception of you is distorted by hormone-induced intense feelings, those hormone changes do NOT give her a free pass to kick you, bite you, head-butt you, verbally abuse you, and try to get you arrested on bogus charges. Regardless of whether a hormone problem exists, it is important that she be held fully accountable for her own bad choices and bad behaviors. Otherwise, she has no incentive to improve.

 

She's told lies to her family (and I presume friends), she's not likely to even realize herself that this is HER distorted version of reality alone? Does that mean in the future she will always be convinced that her lies are the truth - or is there ever likely to be a moment of realization with her?
If she is exhibiting a temporary BPD flareup caused by hormones, her distorted perception of your intentions likely will clear up when her hormones settle down. This is why I've encouraged you to see a psychologist or a psychiatrist (both of whom have PhDs in psychology) to obtain a professional opinion on what you're likely dealing with. If the psych agrees that the cause likely is a hormone change, he may be able to tell you roughly how long the problem will last.
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She's been gone 4 months. It still feels bizarre. One moment family life going on normally then bang it's all gone. I can't get used to not seeing my children every day.

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Jersey born raised

Did you try the BPDfamily link? I tried it and it works. There is a lot of info on multiple situations dealing with BPD.

Gray rocking involves first determining what you need, for example 50/50 custody. Then using her feelings to get her to believe it was her idea and then she demands it. This sums it up perfectly:

 

How to deal with an unrepentant spouse: an Irish person can tell a person to go to hell and have them so excited at the prospect they demand to know when, where the train is leaving and how to get a ticket. Then offer them a loan to get the ticket and a ride to the train station. Be Irish

 

One BW got her WH BPD to agree she and the children move out of state to be near HIS MOM (the WS) for a cooling off period. In the end he demanded it so she could clear her head. Her family lived in the next state less then an hour away. He never thought it though and saw the trap.

 

Anyway he was stuck two states away shacked up with OM. Rarely showed up for visitation. Wound up threatening her, but the kids where settled in a stable environment and with her family close could not intimidate her.

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Did you try the BPDfamily link? I tried it and it works. There is a lot of info on multiple situations dealing with BPD.

Yes that one works ok - its the first link I had problems with I tried it again - but each link just gives me more links that seem to be the result of a search and don't go anywhere?

 

Another incident I remembered. After she gave birth last spring - we took our eldest to her friend's birthday party in the summer. Well I couldn't believe it - I was holding the baby and my wife started flirting outrageously with this other mum's husband right in front of me! It was just so embarrassing. At the time I just brushed it off, but she made an excuse for me to take our youngest daughter back to the car. She came back all mad and said she couldn't find her phone so she had to borrow the other guys phone to call her own to try and find it...?!? WTF? So she now has the other guys number on her phone....I confronted her about her flirting with him and she admitted straight away that she was doing it because she was annoyed with me "looking like a perfect father"....WTF? I see the other guy when I take our eldest to school and he is always very sheepish. I bumped into their family in the supermarket recently too. He did a pretty good job of staying back and not saying hello - his wife was very friendly and quizzing if I was OK. They have two children too.

 

My wife also used to send me out alone with my eldest daughter a lot at weekends saying she was too tired to join us. I cannot see why we did not all go out as a family. I believed her that she wanted a rest, but in hindsight it feels like she was trying to get rid of me.

 

I wonder if her strange behavior and rapid exit from the family home is pointing to OM?

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I wonder if her strange behavior and rapid exit from the family home is pointing to OM?
AlChem, your W's behaviors -- e.g., kicking you, biting you, head-butting you, verbally abusing you, and repeatedly trying to get you arrested on bogus charges -- are way too strange to "point to" (i.e., arise from) an affair with the OM. On the other hand, her rapid exit from your home may well be the result of her desire to see other men.
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On the other hand, her rapid exit from your home may well be the result of her desire to see other men.

Well she has told me that she wants to start dating again but can't because she refuses to let me have our youngest overnight because she is breast feeding....so she clearly has a desire to see other men or is this just part of her ongoing attempt to control of me?

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Another thing I noticed several times during our relationship, increasing in frequency in the last year is what appeared to be her pretending to faint. The first couple of times I thought this was real, but the three times over the last year I am convinced that they were faked. They always occurred when she was trying to create conflict out of nothing with me and I didn't rise to it. I treated her like she had fainted as I was worried about her - but the timing made it suspicious. I never saw her faint in any other situation during the entire relationship.

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