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The_Onceler

Ugh.

 

I am so tired of pretending. I have rationalized, or perhaps merely accepted *her* assertions, that we need to maintain a facade for the sake of our children (two girls, ages 5 and 7).

 

There is a lot of backstory, but to summarize, our relationship had an inauspicious start which included an unexpected pregnancy. We decided to give it a go, and have managed to stay together now for about 8 years. In that time, during a "good" phase, we had our second daughter.

 

Things between she and I have not been great, but we seemed to be making it work, even if our own interpersonal relationship was not what either of us would have wanted for ourselves. Still, we were committed to staying together so long as it mostly worked. With that long term outlook in mind, we recently moved and bought a bigger home when I landed a new job.

 

We moved in to our new place in November of 2015. It was at the end of May of this year when she began her contact with an old flame online (I was unaware). It was a couple of weeks later when she announced she wanted to leave.

 

I did not fight her on the decision, since our relationship has had its ups and downs, and having her "want out" sort of took the sails out of what little hope I had left for the two of us. I figured, maybe she was right - we were never going to be "happy", and perhaps we needed to face that fact.

 

Anyway, I asked her if she was seeing somebody (which would explain the sudden decision to leave, not to mention that it would fit her previous patterns of behavior), but she said she was not. She stated her intention to move out (rather than make me leave), but asked that we continue under one roof while she found a full time job (she has been a SAHM for most of the last 8 years, with part time work during the last few years).

 

Over the following days, I struggled to understand why suddenly she had decided to end things. I was quite upset, because she had convinced me to stretch financially in order to buy our big new house, with a 10 year plan ahead of us, and now six months later she intended to leave, and leave me with a home I could barely afford, and with child support payments looming.

 

In my crazed state, I started poking around, looking for clues as to her sudden change of heart. I noted that she had started facebook and email contact with a person that I did not recognize. I snooped a bit, and discovered that she was having some sort of online affair with this guy, complete with 'sexting' and the sharing of explicit photos.

 

I confronted her, and she admitted to the online contact with the man, an old flame from decades past. I angrily pointed out that I had just asked if there was another man, and she replied that I had asked if she was 'seeing' somebody, which she insisted that technically she was not.

 

Whatever.

 

So, now here we are weeks and weeks later. She won't leave until she has a job, and I am forced to continue living with her as if nothing was wrong. Worse still, she continues to manage our lives as if we were a happily committed couple. She keeps inviting other couples over for dinner and the like. I am happy to meet new people after moving to a new town, but it feels insane to continue this way. I find myself wanting to say, "Hey, can I get you another glass of wine? Oh, and did I mention, she is leaving me for her old boyfriend?"

 

We of course will need to tell our children about the impending changes, but we decided that we needed to wait until we knew more precisely what we were doing, and the changes were fairly imminent. I want the kids to have some time to absorb the news before she moves out, but I don't want to tell them that "Mommy is going to find a new house of her own to share with the girls", only to then have all of us stay under one roof for weeks or months. I worry that we should not add more uncertainty and confusion to what will surely be terribly confusing and upsetting for them.

 

Still, I just want her gone. I mean, on some levels, nothing much has changed between she and I. But to me, it seems that a tidal shift has occurred. I mean, I still have an attraction for her, but affection and physical intimacy are totally off limits. And at times we actually enjoy each other's company, but then I remember that as soon as I head off to bed, she is likely to dial up her new boyfriend on the phone.

 

I find that I am not myself - instead, I am this angry and tense guy. She maintains that she CANNOT leave without finding a new job (and an apartment) first, and to force otherwise would only harm the kids (which would be my fault, of course). But I wonder, is it harming them to have me so tense and prone to anger? That is not to say that I am taking things out on them, but I have noticed that I don't have the patience that I usually do when I am dealing with tantrums and the like.

 

I don't like this transitional me, and I suspect that my girls do not either. I am not the dad that I want to be, the dad I have mostly been all along.

 

Argh! I just want to get on with it, now that it is happening. I mean, I don't see any way to unring the bell at this point, but her fruitless job hunting has me in limbo, and I hate it...

 

 

 

 

Sorry. I am not sure what I expected from this, aside from perhaps a chance to vent. If you got this far, thanks for indulging me...

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Onceler, vent away! Breaking up a family is painful and sad, but she compounded it with terrible timing! And her asserting that she is technically not seeing anyone is dishonest.

 

Is it possible for you to sell the new home without taking a bath? If so, I'd be interviewing real estate agents ASAP. It's important for you to protect yourself financially, given your future obligations to your children.

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This sucks. My condolences.

 

That said, I think you will be better off in a divorce if she is employed and has an income and her own place.

 

I would speak with a lawyer and follow their advice.

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I would speak with a lawyer and follow their advice.

 

Goes without saying, I would have lawyered up when you found out about the OM. The_Onceler, you'll also find that having a plan in place will empower your view of the future.

 

While you're waiting for that to happen, follow these rules:

 

The 180

 

1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

 

2. No frequent phone calls.

 

3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.

 

4. Don’t follow her/him around the house.

 

5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

 

6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

 

7. Don’t ask for reassurances.

 

8. Don’t buy or give gifts.

 

9. Don’t schedule dates together.

 

10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

 

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

 

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

 

13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

 

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

 

15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

 

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!

 

17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.

 

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

 

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

 

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

 

21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

 

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

 

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

 

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

 

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

 

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

 

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

 

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

 

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.

 

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

 

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”

 

32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

 

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life.

 

Read them every day upon awakening and every night before falling asleep. They'll save your sanity ;) ....

 

Mr. Lucky

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The_Onceler

Thanks TennisGal, SevenCity, Mr. Lucky - I appreciate your comments and concern.

 

With regard to the house and finances: I am in no immediate peril. I was initially VERY anxious about getting her name off of the deed. A (not so) brief history: I relocated in order for us to try to live together as a family when she became pregnant 8 or 9 years ago. We moved into a rental about a week before the baby was born. About a year later, I bought a house and we all moved there. We lived there for 6 years or so - I worked outside the home, she was a SAHM. The fact that the house was mine alone was a sore point for her.

 

When we bought the new house, given that we seemed to be in for the long haul, and in consideration of (1) her contributions to our family over the previous years (2) an expectation of more years of the same, I had her name added to the deed (the mortgage was in my name alone). I figured that, if 5 or 10 years down the line she was able to make a claim to half of the house, that would be fair - I could live with that.

 

Then, a mere six months later, she announced that she was leaving. She indicated that she expected that we would sell "our" house. She also indicated that she expected to receive enough money from the sale of the house that she would be financially secure after the split. She went on to elaborate about all the expenses that she saw looming, and about how "we" would need to ensure that "she" would be OK. I mean, she was casting fairly far into the future with her musings ("Well, I will need another new car in a year or two - who's gonna pay for that?").

 

I had sunk a ton of my own savings (and liquidated some investments) in order to get us into the new house. What I saw was coming a huge transfer of wealth, from me to her. I may have been overly paranoid, but that was my fear.

 

So, I suggested that I buy her out, and after some discussions over the course of a few days, we arrived at a number. I had a quitclaim deed drafted, wrote her a check, and then registered the signed, notarized quitclaim with the registry.

 

Now the house is mine to manage as I see fit. As I said above, I can afford to keep the house, at least in the short to mid term. If things get too tight after the split (when I am paying child support), I have enough cushion that I will be able to sell rather than simply foreclose.

 

My primary worry is not about affording the house, but about keeping my job. We knew going in that the new job would be more demanding of my time, and we agreed (or so I thought) that she would continue to stay at home or to work "mother's hours" for a few more years until the kids were old enough to be able to tolerate less parental care. So, as a single dad with shared custody, I am worried that I simply won't be able to perform at work as expected. If I change jobs, my salary will likely decrease, and THEN I will need to sell the house. But, one thing at a time, right?

 

 

Yeah, I have no particular reason to want her to be unemployed or to have a crappy job. She is a smart, capable woman. And she is driven to get ahead - always has been. She is very confident in a professional environment, and seemed to always be looking for the next promotion (which she often got).

 

So, I fully expect that within a year or two, she will be doing quite well for herself. And I get that, the better she does, the better we all do (financially speaking). I would honestly LOVE to see her land a great job with great pay.

 

Its just right now - I am having a hard time sharing my home with her.

 

I do my own thing as much as I can, but she and I still spend a lot of time together doing "family" stuff. I don't want to be around her when I can help it, but at the same time, I don't want to miss time with my kids.

 

But with regard to the "180" stuff - I think I am doing all of that. I mean, aside from a brief period of craziness when I was obsessed with finding out "the truth" about why she was suddenly leaving (i.e the other man), I have for the most part just left her alone. I am certainly not chasing or pleading or any of that. I had a hard time managing the dichotomy for a bit - carrying on as normal in front of the kids, sharing a bed, seeing her parade around the house in her yoga pants and tiny tee shirts - yet accepting that she was in a courtship with some other guy and ignoring/squashing my natural urges.

 

But I think I am beyond that now, too.

 

 

 

I have *not* retained a lawyer yet. Given that the house is mine, we have our own bank accounts and such, and that we aren't married (never were) - this isn't a "divorce" in the legal sense, so it is not clear what I might want a lawyer to do for me/us.

 

There is an outside chance that she might hire a lawyer and attempt to make some sort of "common law marriage" claim, but from my understanding, no such claim could be enforced in our situation. Still, if she does pursue that avenue, I will of course hire my own lawyer to counter her claim. I figure that the outcome of that sort of battle is not dependent upon who lawyers up first, so I feel no need to initiate that process.

 

I have no problem with paying child support. Here in our state, child support is determined by a fairly simple equation. She and I agreed that we would abide by whatever amount the equation resulted with. And since before my eldest daughter was even born, I have fully committed to providing for her. It rankles that paying child support will mean handing over my financial support to their mother to use as she see's fit, but that is fairly petty and probably has more to do with my ego and failings of my character than anything else. I figure I can live with that as well as the next guy.

 

We have also agreed to split custody 50/50. I don't anticipate a fight in this area, either. She loves her girls, but I *know* that she is not interested in being their primary caretaker. She wants/needs more time for herself than that would allow. In fact, even before talking about finances, she was making clear the ways in which she expected that the logistic of our shared custody would enable her career choices.

 

Also, she is not *evil* or anything. She and I are not terribly compatible, and I find her to be selfish, but I am sure she could give you a listing of my shortcomings if you asked. So, no matter how much I might paint her negatively, I don't see her making things hard for no particular reason. Also, I think she gets that the well being of our children depends upon she and I staying sane and civil, as much as we can.

 

Still, if all of this begins to become contentious between us, I am prepared to retain an attorney.

 

 

 

Sorry! It seems that no matter how brief I intend to be, I wind up writing a (boring) novel. Still, thanks again for the insights and the chance to vent a bit. Time for some work...

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PegNosePete
Here in our state, child support is determined by a fairly simple equation. She and I agreed that we would abide by whatever amount the equation resulted with.

...

We have also agreed to split custody 50/50.

Normally if custody is split 50/50 then there is no child support? Since you're already contributing 50% of the time and money during your time...

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The_Onceler
Normally if custody is split 50/50 then there is no child support? Since you're already contributing 50% of the time and money during your time...

 

While that seems reasonable, and was my first assumption, the rationale presented by the state is a bit different. Essentially, they seek to even out the financial position of each parent. I presume so that the children have a consistent experience with either parent?

 

When sharing custody 50/50, the state runs the child support equation "both ways", so to speak - as if parent A had primary custody and was receiving child support from Parent B, and vice versa. Then they average the two.

 

Also, consideration is made for how much each parent needs to spend on child care. Finally, consideration is given to the parent who pays for health insurance.

 

After all of that, the child support essentially depends upon the delta between your incomes. If I make more, we both have the same child care costs, and I provide insurance, I will still pay child support to her (unless her salary is very nearly the same as mine).

 

Based on her expected starting wages and my current salary, and assuming we split child care costs and that I provide insurance, I would STILL be paying her about $1200 per month for the kids (in total).

 

The good news (is there good news?) is that, as her income increases, the delta decreases and the payments go down.

 

Of course, my life is essentially devoted to my kids, so I have no issue with paying for their needs and well being. It bothers me to some extend that SHE will be the one who decides how MY money is spent on OUR kids, but that is just the reality of the situation.

 

Knowing her avarice and abilities, though, I console myself with the knowledge that she will likely be paying ME child support before long, when her salary exceeds mine. :)

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sharing a bed

 

Your choice but I wouldn't do this for a number of reasons. And there are lots of plausible reasons you can come up with that satisfy any curiosity the kids might have...

 

Mr. Lucky

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The_Onceler
Your choice but I wouldn't do this for a number of reasons. And there are lots of plausible reasons you can come up with that satisfy any curiosity the kids might have...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Yeah, initially I wanted her out of the bed. We went back and forth on the matter, including our concern with how our girls would interpret things. She was clear that she wanted to remain in the bed (or in the bedroom, to be more accurate), but that there was to be no hanky-panky. When I insisted that we not sleep in the same bed, she invited me to go sleep in the tiny bed in the spare room (my feet hang off the end!).

 

Given that we now inhabit a king sized bed, we hardly even know the other person is there. And for quite a while now, my work schedule has required me to be up between 4 and 5 AM, so I go to bed by 10:00 or so each night. She, on the other hand, stays up until midnight or later, and sleeps until the kids wake at 7 or 8 AM. So, I essentially go to bed alone, she joins me after I am asleep, and I leave while she is sleeping. Aside from the occasional errant knee or elbow, we hardly know that we have company.

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PegNosePete

Ah, that state equation seems sucky. It might be worth consulting a lawyer to discuss it. Since many do a free initial consultation, it will cost you absolutely nothing so there's really no reason not to do so.

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The_Onceler
Ah, that state equation seems sucky. It might be worth consulting a lawyer to discuss it. Since many do a free initial consultation, it will cost you absolutely nothing so there's really no reason not to do so.

 

Oh, yeah, THAT part I have done. He noted that a judge will have a great deal of discretion in ALIMONY suits (which doesn't apply in my case), but child support is fairly cut-and-dried.

 

Even so, there are nuances to it, and if she and I cannot agree on the basics, then I will need a lawyer at that time. For instance, the equation relies on each of our salaries. She has already indicated that she considers my bonus income as salary. In point of fact, the state calculation does as well. The wrinkle is that I have only been in my new job for 7 months. While I have the *potential* for a bonus, I have not yet received one, and I have no guarantee that I will. She seemed to think that I needed to include the maximum possible bonus in my salary estimate. If we wind up fighting over these sorts of things, then "Hello Mr. Lawyer!"

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The_Onceler

I think I have almost survived stage 1. She and I are still living under the same roof, but she has a job offer pending, and assuming it is a good offer, then she will be moving out on Sept 1 or Oct 1.

 

In the meantime, we are "playing nice", and have not told the kids yet.

 

We attempted to carry on as normal to the extent that we were going to still take our previously planned family vacations together, as a family. Well, I found that too emotionally taxing, so I told her that I intended for us to split our upcoming week of vacation between us. That has now morphed into the girls and I taking the vacation without their mother. Since she is (hopefully!) starting a new job, that might make sense anyway.

 

We had a big argument/discussion the other night as well, which also served to clear the air. We did range around to some of the old tried and true argument topics, but mostly we stuck to the issue at hand. I had known about "the other man" for some time now, but somehow I had not known specifically that he had been her college boyfriend. She claims that I have always known (and she could be right - my memory is not the best), but it seems to me that in these last months, in our discussions and arguments, she has referred to him in myriad ways ("someone she was very close with", "someone significant from her life", "somebody she had shared so much with", etc.), but never as an ex-boyfriend. Not that it matters much, I guess...

 

Still, at one point, she basically stated that she was torn because she knew that she was giving up a lot by leaving, but she could not deny her attraction to him, and that her heart, mind, and body yearned for him. Maybe its just my ego, but after hearing that, the remaining shred of hope in me died. I had gotten used to having her not want me in the way that I wanted her, but to know that she instead wanted somebody else RATHER than me...

 

Oddly, I have been more at peace with things since then. It is obvious that she is hurting, and I am still plenty angry at her, but I can't blame her 100%. Our relationship has been in a rocky place for a long time. She had reasons to want out. She just showed no signs of "giving up", and we had recently made the implied commitment to stay together when we bought the new house...

 

I am angry that she seems to have lost sight of what this will do to our kids. I mean, it could be that breaking up is the best for all involved. But it seems to me that we could have tried counseling or something before she bailed. Things had actually been improving for us lately, it seemed. And she has stated that she knows she needs to get individual counseling - if she is willing to "do the work", couldn't we have tried to do that BEFORE blowing everything up?

 

And the fact that she was clearly having some sort of mid-life crisis, and now that I fully realize that she is reconnecting with her college boyfriend - it smacks of a real psychological crisis. I am worried for her, and for my daughters. I suspect that things for her are going to get MUCH worse before they get better. She seems to think that once she moves out on her own, goes back to work full time, has to get by with no help from me, and has to get by with less - then she will be happier.

 

I wonder. At first I took a cynical glee in the thought that she might suffer, but now I am worried what her suffering might do to the kids...

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I wonder. At first I took a cynical glee in the thought that she might suffer, but now I am worried what her suffering might do to the kids...

 

You can mitigate that by staying as involved in their lives as you are now. You'd be amazed at how quickly a new normal can become an accepted part of their life...

 

Mr. Lucky

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The_Onceler
You can mitigate that by staying as involved in their lives as you are now. You'd be amazed at how quickly a new normal can become an accepted part of their life...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Thanks, Mr. Lucky. Believe me, nothing will ever come between my girls and I. Whatever happens between their mother and I is just that - between their mother and I. I will always be the best father I can be to my kids.

 

It is their mother's psychological well being that has me concerned. But, I guess time will tell. Hopefully she will be able to work through whatever she is facing without impacting the kids.

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The_Onceler

I had previously noted here that my ex and I *had* been planning a family vacation for the end of the summer. We were to go camping with the kids. We had also planned to go with another family - friends of hers, who we have gone camping with numerous times in the past.

 

Well, now that we are splitting, I told her that I did not want to do a joint vacation. I tried that earlier this summer, and it was too emotionally taxing. My ex said she would let the other couple know, and make other logistical changes (like put the reservation under my name, etc.).

 

Anyway, the other couple (the wife, really) came back and said that they did not want to go camping if my ex was not there. And my ex said she would not go if I did not go (she wants me there to do 'the heavy lifting').

 

I am not necessarily saying that they are colluding, though they could be. But in any event, here are my choices:

 

(1) stick to my guns, and wind up taking my kids camping - just me and them. The other couple had children who are friends with my kids, so they are excited to go as a group. They will still enjoy the trip, but they will surely be complaining that their friends are not with us.

 

(2) agree to suck it up and go as 'a family'. I might be better able to deal with it emotionally this time, but I am not 100% certain. Also, it bothers me somewhat to be put in the position of choosing. We had made these plans, and if their mother hadn't decided to leave me and hook up with an old boyfriend, we would still be going as a happy group.

 

 

 

Is it OK for me to 'take a hit for the team' and have us all go together, or am I right to stick to my guns, even if it means taking the kids without having their friends be there with us?

 

Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated - Thanks!

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I had previously noted here that my ex and I *had* been planning a family vacation for the end of the summer. We were to go camping with the kids. We had also planned to go with another family - friends of hers, who we have gone camping with numerous times in the past.

 

Well, now that we are splitting, I told her that I did not want to do a joint vacation. I tried that earlier this summer, and it was too emotionally taxing. My ex said she would let the other couple know, and make other logistical changes (like put the reservation under my name, etc.).

 

Anyway, the other couple (the wife, really) came back and said that they did not want to go camping if my ex was not there. And my ex said she would not go if I did not go (she wants me there to do 'the heavy lifting').

 

I am not necessarily saying that they are colluding, though they could be. But in any event, here are my choices:

 

(1) stick to my guns, and wind up taking my kids camping - just me and them. The other couple had children who are friends with my kids, so they are excited to go as a group. They will still enjoy the trip, but they will surely be complaining that their friends are not with us.

 

(2) agree to suck it up and go as 'a family'. I might be better able to deal with it emotionally this time, but I am not 100% certain. Also, it bothers me somewhat to be put in the position of choosing. We had made these plans, and if their mother hadn't decided to leave me and hook up with an old boyfriend, we would still be going as a happy group.

 

 

 

Is it OK for me to 'take a hit for the team' and have us all go together, or am I right to stick to my guns, even if it means taking the kids without having their friends be there with us?

 

Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated - Thanks!

 

 

Do your kids know that WW is having an affair and divorcing you?

 

 

Does the other couple know this as well?

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The_Onceler
Do your kids know that WW is having an affair and divorcing you?

 

 

Does the other couple know this as well?

 

I should clarify: her 'affair' is entirely online and via her phone. I still think of it as an 'affair', but she always tries to make the point that it is not an 'affair' because there has been no physical contact. But anyway...

 

No, the kids don't know yet. She refuses to move out until she has a good paying, full time job (she is negotiating an offer at the moment!). I didn't want to tell the kids that we were splitting, only to then have us all remain together for weeks and months (she announced the split at the start of June). We figure to tell them like a week or two before she intends to move out.

 

The other couple knows (in fact, the other couple knows the man she is involved with - he was her boyfriend back when they were all college room mates). Oddly, the wife in the other couple feels that my ex should not have decided to leave and taken up with the old boyfriend. I guess I assumed that she would support my ex in whatever decision she made, but I guess not.

 

In any event, the wife in the other couple does not want to go on the trip if my ex is not present.

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Is it OK for me to 'take a hit for the team' and have us all go together, or am I right to stick to my guns, even if it means taking the kids without having their friends be there with us?

 

Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated - Thanks!

 

Knowing what you know and the path it's put you on, I wouldn't vacation with my wife. Others may differ...

 

Mr. Lucky

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But in any event, here are my choices:

 

(1) stick to my guns, and wind up taking my kids camping - just me and them. The other couple had children who are friends with my kids, so they are excited to go as a group. They will still enjoy the trip, but they will surely be complaining that their friends are not with us.

 

(2) agree to suck it up and go as 'a family'. I might be better able to deal with it emotionally this time, but I am not 100% certain. Also, it bothers me somewhat to be put in the position of choosing. We had made these plans, and if their mother hadn't decided to leave me and hook up with an old boyfriend, we would still be going as a happy group.

 

Is it OK for me to 'take a hit for the team' and have us all go together, or am I right to stick to my guns, even if it means taking the kids without having their friends be there with us?

 

Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated - Thanks!

 

The_Onceler- You are quite an amazing person, and don't ever let anyone tell you different. I read through your ordeal, and I can't say that many would do the same thing if they were in your shoes. Most probably would have cut and run by now, but that's another story.

 

A vacation is supposed to be exactly that...a vacation. If you honestly think that you could relax and enjoy yourself and your two daughters with your ex present, then I guess I would vote for taking one for the team. I, for one, don't think I could put on an act like that for very long. It would be emotionally and physically draining, and I don't think that I would willingly put myself into a situation like that. I understand now why the other couple's wife doesn't want to go if your ex isn't going. That might be kind of awkward.

 

How is your relation with the husband of the other couple? Any chance you could spin it to your daughters that their mom needs to miss the trip due to the upcoming job, have the other couple's wife graciously bow out (so that the Dads can have time with their kids), and go on the trip that way? Just an idea....but since the other couple's wife won't go if your ex isn't going, then she can stay home this time. Again, I'm not sure if you are okay with the other couple's husband, but at least your kids would be able to be with their friends, you would be with your kids, and you can relax in not having to put on the "act" with your ex around?

 

Good luck....let us know what you decide to do...and hang in there.

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The_Onceler
How is your relation with the husband of the other couple? Any chance you could spin it to your daughters that their mom needs to miss the trip due to the upcoming job, have the other couple's wife graciously bow out (so that the Dads can have time with their kids), and go on the trip that way? Just an idea....but since the other couple's wife won't go if your ex isn't going, then she can stay home this time. Again, I'm not sure if you are okay with the other couple's husband, but at least your kids would be able to be with their friends, you would be with your kids, and you can relax in not having to put on the "act" with your ex around?

 

Good luck....let us know what you decide to do...and hang in there.

 

I actually get along quite well with the other dad. The other couple has been friends with my stbx since they were all in college, and subsequently I have known them for over a decade. The other mom had suggested that very solution - that we dad's take the kids without the mom's in attendance. I am hoping that it goes that way. I like the other mom well enough on her own, but they have more troubles than we had, and he is better company when she is absent.

 

My stbx is in a meeting RIGHT NOW discussing her job offer. I hope they offer her a ton of cash, so she can move out without costing me an arm and a leg in child support. Don't get me wrong - I will always make my girls a priority. But if the child support numbers are too high, I will have to sell my house. I don't want to do that if I can help it, but I don't want to be house poor either.

 

 

 

Now that I am taking steps to distance myself from my stbx (as much as I can while she is still under my roof), I have begun to notice stuff that I had not noticed before. For instance, I often seem to hear the refrain "that is too much hassle" from my stbx.

 

First and foremost is the camping. I had offered her "first dibs" at our camping trip with her friends. She stated flatly that she would not go as a sole parent. She felt that it would be too much effort and trouble to manage alone. Then there was this last weekend.

 

My stbx had been planning to go visit her family this past weekend, and meet them at the beach with our girls. However, she told me last Thursday that she decided it was all too much hassle. I asked her if she intended to do something else with the girls that day, and if not, could I have them for the day. So, she and I traded days, and I took them to the beach myself. It was something of a test run - to see if I could manage it; could I manage the supplies, logistics, and of course the two girls. I had always been part of a team when doing such things in the past.

 

Well, it wasn't perfect, but I think I did a pretty damned good job. The girls and I had a ton of fun, nobody drowned (or even got sunburned!), and nobody starved to death. They may have eaten a tad too much junk food, and we may have gotten home an hour late, but all-in-all, I would call it a success.

 

Their mother kept making a play to come with us. She tried a number of excuses and rationalizations, but I stuck to my guns. I am glad I did. I mean, it makes me sad to think that our last family vacation was our LAST FAMILY VACATION, but I feel better about my ability to do things with the kids in the future.

 

Next, I plan to haul them out of bed in the wee hours Friday night/Saturday morning to check out the Perseid's - fingers crossed for clear night skies!

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The_Onceler

Well, she got her job offer. It's a commissioned position (after a grace period for training). Based on our salaries, at least for the next six months, I would be paying her about $1,000 per month in child support (I provide the health/dental/vision insurance for the kids).

 

That is sort of right on the edge of what I might be able to afford. I don't want to put the kids through too much at once, but I am thinking more and more that I may want to sell this big house and get into something more affordable. Tho we have only just finished unpacking...

 

*sigh*

 

Oh, wait... it gets worse.

 

I was assuming that I was in line for a bonus this year, and that my bonus would help offset this 'new' child support expense. Sadly, our state guidelines indicate that I need to report my bonus as income, and recalculate my child support payment. I ran the numbers, and in essence, if I get a bonus, I have to transfer 90% of it to her anyway through increased payments. In other words, there is no way in HELL I can afford to keep this house that she talked me into buying less than one year ago.

 

I guess we will be telling the kids that we are splitting AND that we are moving to a new house.

 

 

Oh, what?? So, I ran the numbers real quickly. Given my current salary and her anticipated salary, if I deduct child support from my take home and add it to her take home, she will take home more than me. And that is assuming that I pay for health insurance for the kids, and that we split the cost of child care 50/50. If I get a 'bonus' at the end of the year, she takes about 90% of that, and her take home pay leaps FAR ahead of mine (though mine goes up slightly).

 

My only real hope here is that she makes a ton in commission, and soon!

 

WTF???

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ShatteredLady

When my friend was in your situation she made a 'short list' of 3 houses & let her girls choose their new home. Then she took them to the DIY shop & let them choose any colors for their new bedrooms....bright orange & bubblegum pink!!

 

They LOVE their little house so much more than the big conservatively decorated old one!

 

Best Wishes.

 

You seem to be doing fantastically well given the circumstances. Girls relationship with their Daddy is so important. You have a wonderful attitude with your priorities in the right place. You'll do great!

 

Our friend got full custody of HIS 3 children. 1 boy & twin little girls. They're all very happy & well adjusted. He's never drowned them....just the occasional grazed knee & sun burn!! You can do it!

 

I hope you have a Daddy's vacation. I think that's the best solution. Have fun & try to leave your problems at home for a few days. (Easier said than done. I know.)

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Take the hit for the kids. Camping requires close contact. You will soon discover if the other wife is colluding with yours.

 

I feel for you having to share the bed and house with your wife. luckily mine has been staying out of town. I guess it helps me get used to not being with her. I am sure it will hit harder once I am in my new place and divorce is final. Right now in my own home and things seem somewhat normal.

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I should clarify: her 'affair' is entirely online and via her phone. I still think of it as an 'affair', but she always tries to make the point that it is not an 'affair' because there has been no physical contact. But anyway...

 

I have not proved my wife's PA. However over 6000 minutes and hundreds of texts and sudden urge for divorce, lack of sex and intimacy point that way. What she is doing is definitely an affair. I think I feel more angered at her sharing that much time on the phone with another man. Hell for four months each month she was on the phone with him more than she was with me for a years time.

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When my friend was in your situation she made a 'short list' of 3 houses & let her girls choose their new home. Then she took them to the DIY shop & let them choose any colors for their new bedrooms....bright orange & bubblegum pink!!

 

They LOVE their little house so much more than the big conservatively decorated old one!

 

Best Wishes.

 

You seem to be doing fantastically well given the circumstances. Girls relationship with their Daddy is so important. You have a wonderful attitude with your priorities in the right place. You'll do great!

 

Our friend got full custody of HIS 3 children. 1 boy & twin little girls. They're all very happy & well adjusted. He's never drowned them....just the occasional grazed knee & sun burn!! You can do it!

 

I hope you have a Daddy's vacation. I think that's the best solution. Have fun & try to leave your problems at home for a few days. (Easier said than done. I know.)

 

Thanks for the words of encouragement, SL. Yeah, I have considered taking that sort of tack with the kids, as you pointed out: involve them in the process, try to present it all as an adventure, rather than an ordeal. Ideally we won't have to move (for a number of reasons), but if we do, then I will try to handle it that way.

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