The attorney consulation

[lunajane]

Background:

 

I am 38, he is 43. We've been married for 13 years. We have a seven year old daughter.

 

Five years ago I quit my job in NC to move to FL for his job. We left ALL of our friends and family and started over. I've been a SAHM since we moved.

 

He is in software and made over $100K a year. I work part time as a substitute teacher and make less than minimum wage.

 

He was laid off a week ago. We saw it coming, and he's actively looking for something else. At least I hope he is.

 

What happened:

 

His job was VERY stressful. I gave him a ton of space and freedom so that he wouldn't have stress coming from us. He went out with his friends more than he was at home.

 

I've felt for a while that our marriage needed work, but, again didn't want to stress him out. I figured marriage ebbs and flows, and he'd come back around eventually. When we did talk about things, he blamed stress at work. I had no reason to believe that wasn't the case.

 

Our sex life was non existent. He seemed to cringe every time I touched him. He never iniatiated contact with me.

 

Four days ago he told me he doesn't want be married anymore. He loves our daughter but basically can't stand to be around me. I asked him what I'd done, and he mentioned two fights we'd had (both of which started because he was being a jerk, I handled them badly and profusely and sincerely apologized for shortly after). I'm sorry, I thought married couples fight!

 

My opinion:

 

He had six months down here in FL before we moved down with him all by himself to live a bachelor life. I basically let him continue that. Now he wants it for real.

 

He's having an affair.

 

I was by no means a perfect wife, but I was still a damn good one. I've put up with his **** for a long time.

 

Issues:

 

1. He doesn't want me to hire an attorney. He wants to do it all through mediation. His reasoning is "every dollar we spend on attorneys is less money we have to split in the end". Everyone I've spoken to is STRONGLY encouraging me to at least speak with an attorney.

 

I feel like I should at least know of my rights before we go into mediation.

 

However, I'm scared that if I piss him off, things could get messy.

 

2. I want ask for three years of alimony so I can go back to school part time and earn a teaching certificate. I would like to continue subbing, go to school and still be as available to my daughter as I am now. I'm not expecting the same standard of living we have now, but I do think he should support me while I get the training I need to support myself. Does that sound fair?

 

3. I have a strong urge to move back to NC to be with my family. The jobs he is looking at are "remote", which means he could work from anywhere. But my daughter's home is here. It's all she's ever known. I don't want to dump a divorce and a move on her. However, she's young, and it might be better in the long term for her to grow up around family. This is a BIG issue I'm grappling with.

 

4. We haven't told her yet. When we do, I think he should tell her. While I don't think it's fair to frame it as a joint decision, I also don't want her to feel negative emotions towards her daddy. He's not exactly been Father of the Year to her during her seven years, but he's still her father. And maybe he'll be a better father to her if he doesn't have to be a husband to me.

 

Her birthday is next week, so I'm thinking that next weekend would be a good time to sit down with her. Is that too soon? He is still here in the house (although I told him he had to leave after she went to bed. I just can't sit here and watch TV with him. He doesn't want to be here anyway.) I want him gone as soon as possible. I can't even look at him without wanting to cry or throw up.

 

5. Of course we will co-parent our daughter. When I was growing up, my sister and I stayed with my mom every other weekend. I don't feel that's enough for them to develop and maintain a solid relationship. What's the norm these days for shared custody?

 

I think that's plenty for now! Thanks for reading. I appreciate any feedback.

[lolablue17]

I'm so sorry for you.

 

Your husband's statement about "every dollar we spend on attorneys is less money we have to split in the end" is really stupid because if he wants to save money you can just stay married, right? (One house instead of two, mutual expences...) Divorce costs some money.

 

If you can do it on good terms, you don't have to talk to each other through lawyers, but (memorize this) you will not go through signing an agreement that can dramatically effect the rest of your life, without at least consulting an attorney in every step of the way, including finalizing the agreement.

 

Tell your husband that you would love to do this on good terms, while respecting him, listening to his whishes and needs, but you are going to take an attorney to consult you, and you recomend him to do the same.

[GorillaTheater]

I'm so sorry. This situation sucks like a black hole.

 

 

I don't know that I have much to offer besides my sincere sympathy, but one thing I can tell you is yes, consult with an attorney. More than one if you can. They'll be able to advise you on several of the issues you've brought up, including alimony and custody/child support.

 

 

You couldn't trust your husband with the marriage, for damn sure don't trust him with the divorce.

[PrettyEmily77]

Sorry you're going through this, lunajane. You seem very lucid and level-headed , which is very commendable and no mean feat under the circumstances, but if I may, this

 

However, I'm scared that if I piss him off, things could get messy.

 

stood out for me.

 

It doesn't look like he worried much about pissing you off these last few months, so don't worry about pissing him off. In fact, it should probably be the least of your worries - just keep your focus on what you feel is the right thing to do for your daughter and yourself. Things will likely get messy regardless - you might as well make sure you get an equal say in how to proceed with things from now.

[Lois_Griffin]

Well, he's already SHOWN you how trustworthy he is, hasn't he?

 

He doesn't get to tell you how to handle your end of the divorce. Too damned bad if it ticks him off. Do NOT allow him to coerce you into agreeing to anything he comes up with.

 

Get going and find a lawyer who offers free one-hour consultations. They're OUT there.

 

I wouldn't trust this assclown if he told me it were raining outside - I'd have to go to the window myself and look outside.

 

He doesn't have your best interests at heart. He has his OWN.

 

Get cracking NOW and find a lawyer.

[minimariah]

1. hire an attorney. that is a MUST!

2. it does sound fair; use your legal rights.

3. would moving affect her relationship with her father & his visitation rights?

4. it should be a joint decision, tell her together - to be honest, i wouldn't believe him to deliver the news on his own. next weekend sounds good.

5. look up the norm for custody in your country; 50/50 meaning every other week or exchange during the weekdays is the norm.

 

i'm curious -- how come you stayed with your mother that rarely, when you were a child?

 

also, don't hesitate to look up support from therapists from both you and your daughter.

[oldshirt]

 

He doesn't get to tell you how to handle your end of the divorce. Too damned bad if it ticks him off. Do NOT allow him to coerce you into agreeing to anything he comes up with.

 

 

 

He doesn't have your best interests at heart. He has his OWN.

 

 

Although several of us have said this in so many words, I want to emphasize the points above.

 

 

He is not your friend or ally any more. He has stated his intentions to legally dissolve your marriage and leave you to your own devices for the rest of your life. You will soon no longer be joined legally or financially and other than matters relating to your daughter, neither of you will have any moral, legal or financial responsibility to the other.

 

 

To put it simply in a very guttural analogy, if you were to fall off of a building and splat on the sidewalk right in front of him, he would be within his legal and financial right to step over your carcass and keep on walking without breaking stride.

 

 

There for he simply has no say in how you conduct your legal or financial affairs from this point forward. He has his agendas and strategies, and you have yours. He doesn't get to say how you run your divorce case.

 

 

Never forget that.

 

 

You have a variety of legal rights, responsibilities and entitlements according to the law of the jurisdiction you are in. You do not know those laws. you need to have someone who does know those laws reviewing your case and representing you so you do not get screwed out of what is legally entitled to you as well as to ensure that you do not fail to fulfil a responsibility and get you in legal trouble.

 

 

Your STBX does not have a say in how you conduct your legal and financial affairs any more. He forfeited those rights when announced his intentions to divorce you.

 

 

Yes he will be mad and upset at times. I can't tell you how many tears I will shed and how much sleep I will lose worrying about how upset he will be that you are legally protecting yourself and standing up for your legal and financial rights.

 

 

But seriously, decisions based on fear and based on the fear that someone will get mad are almost ALWAYS the wrong decisions.

 

 

Do what is in your best interests and do not make decisions based on what will keep him from getting upset while he is cheating on you and breaking up your home and family.

[lunajane]

Thank you, everyone, for your replies. They have all been very helpful.

 

In the interest of clarification and fairness, I do NOT know for a fact that he has been unfaithful. I only suspect. It's my opinion. If he is, I'm not sure how much I care or want to know. It would only add more pain. I'm done. And I don't want to "go after" him for it. I don't want a big, messy divorce. I don't want to put my daughter through that. I just want what I'm legally entitled to as a spouse who gave up all her earning power for a husband who gave up trying years ago.

 

Counseling for all of us is an excellent idea. Although I don't know if he would want to pay for it. He's always been very concerned about money.

 

See? I have to shift my mindset from what considering what he would want to do to what I require him to do. It was weird even typing that! It's a BIG shift for me. I've spent a long time considering his wants and needs. You know, like a spouse should.

 

We had a very productive conversation tonight. We laid down a timeframe for telling our daughter and for his immediately moving out. I was actually proud of myself for not trying to figure out for him where he should go. HE needs to figure that out. All these friends he's been spending so much time with him need to take him in.

[oldshirt]

Again, I must commend you for being as rational and objective as you are.

 

 

Please stick around and keep us up on how things are going and what is happening in your case.

 

 

I think down the road you will be able to offer a lot of insight and good advice to others who are going through similar situations.

[whichwayisup]

Lawyer up asap and hire a PI so you can find out what he's been up to. Chances are he is having an A, you say he goes out with his friends more than he's home. Does he ever spend time with you and your daughter, do family outings? Is he a good father?

[Jersey born raised]

You need to see a lawyer, without his knowledge. The bonds of mutual trust are in transition. Seeing a lawyer is not a breech of trust at this point. This site is the best I've seen so far State Specific Divorce and Custody Information - Divorce Source. Most states have web sites for information on divorce settlements and custody. Be aware the settlement and custody are two different different issues. Do not confuse the two.

 

In the past the settlements tended to be based on the current economic reality of the spouses and were frozen in place. Child support and custody were not as ridged.

 

On a practical matter his former company is required to offer a cobra. Did you obtain it? If he turn it down without telling you call the company today and inform them you want it. Many states require both spouses to waive a cobra if they are both on it.

[Jersey born raised]

One other point about "no fault" states. Just because a state is a no fault, that does not mean adultery or serious and prolong abuse is not a factor in the division of assets and debts or does not effect custody. Many no fault states it does offer such a limited scope it makes no difference. Other states it can shift the percentages.

 

No Fault simply means "I can't stand the way they eat, I am done" is grounds for divorce.

[MidwestUSA]

Why settle for three years of alimony? You've been a SAHM for five years. Take whatever a lawyer tells you you can get. What if your plan for further education doesn't play out exactly the way you'd like?

 

Don't settle for less than you deserve. You relocated for this jerk. Get that lawyer.

[lunajane]

I have a consultation with an attorney in an hour. It'll run approximately 30 minutes. What are the most important things to discuss before I decide to retain him?

 

Here's my story:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/579268-husband-leaving-no-warning-devastated

[carhill]

1. What motions you want in the initial filing. No need to be conversant in legalese. Layperson wants can be triaged by the lawyer. Write them down though so you don't forget. Motions relevant to spousal support and any children would be at the top of my list.

 

2. List of major assets and debts of the marriage.

 

3. Your, and their (the lawyer's), perspective on mediation, as appropriate to your jurisdiction.

 

If you're clear and concise in what you want from the attorney, and can communicate that, then you can sit back and listen and decide whether their response is a good fit.

 

When I divorced, I actually got advice from some of the divorce attorneys at the law firm I was using for other matters, mostly estate and trust actions, so the firm was already on retainer. However, that advice was on the billing clock, unlike your situation, where your interview may be complimentary prior to retention. I learned quickly, prior to any divorce actions, that being prepared, clear and concise is a path to saving a substantial amount of money on legal fees. My lawyers generally billed at around six bucks a minute in 1/10 hour blocks, so 36 bucks per block. It gets expensive fast.

 

Good luck!

[d0nnivain]

Carhill gave you good points but do find out what the hourly rate is & how much of a retainer you will have to pay upfront. Be prepared for charges for every 1/10 of an hour or every 6 minutes. That means you talk to your lawyer for 5 minutes at $300 per hour you pay $30. 10 minutes is $60 etc. A 1/2 hour conversation = $150.

 

Do not confuse your lawyer with your therapist. You will get crappy mental help & it won't be covered by insurance.

[jen1447]

Do not confuse your lawyer with your therapist. You will get crappy mental help & it won't be covered by insurance.

 

^^ This. Big pitfall many ppl fall into. (Understandably bc you're dealing with emotional issues.) But they're not there to help you process your feelings, they're there to represent you legally and advise you regarding their area of expertise. Some will be happy to listen to you moan about your soon to be ex as long as the meter's running, so save yourself some money and don't do that. Save it for the friend/therapist and have the lawyer tell you how to get divorced and make it happen.

 

Good luck.

[amaysngrace]

I always pick fast-talking lawyers.

 

They just seem smarter to me.

[carhill]

If 'expanding' on points, a good time to do that is during a complimentary interview. If the attorney has other priorities, like bringing more billable hours or another client into the firm, they may entertain a push of the traditional timeframes. What helped me decide on the firm I retained was one of their lawyers spent nearly 90 minutes with me in the interview, including bringing in a couple colleagues for specifics, before asking the 'are you interested in retaining us?' question. That last part was important and what sold me on the firm..... "us" That had value that I would only discover much later.

[lunajane]

I have a handful of different issues I'm grappling with, and I'll post them separately.

 

First on my mind is telling our daughter. My husband has decided he doesn't want to be my husband after 13 years. I had no indication he was thinking of leaving.

 

I've told him he has to be the one to tell her, figure out how to handle her questions, and then he must move out immediately. We will figure out and tell her a temporary visitation schedule.

 

She is seven and a very smart, perceptive little girl. For the past five years, her daddy has been out with his friends more than he has been at home. Really, the visitation arrangement we enter into will not be much different than the way things are now as far as the amount of time she spends with him.

 

I am sick over how she's going to take the news. Obviously, she'll be upset. But how upset? Will she be angry? At whom? What can we do to minimize her pain as much as possible?

 

I know you don't have a crystal ball, but can you give me some advice based on your experiences?

[lunajane]

Well, the consultation went well. The attorney is very nice, and his rates are extremely reasonable. I will probably hire him.

 

Two issues:

 

1. We discussed my relocation back to NC from FL to be with family. My husband told me last night that if I take our daughter back to NC away from him, he will be less inclined to pay alimony. He assumes I will receive financial support from my family, which, other than free babysitting, I will not. The attorney told me that if he contests the relocation, things could get ugly and expensive.

 

I haven't decided whether I want to move back. I don't want a messy divorce. I want it over quickly and amicably. And NC is MY home. My daughter's home is here. The thought of dumping a divorce and a move on her makes me sick.

 

Yet, we could do it amicably. He is currently looking for a job. Several of the positions are remote, which means he could work from anywhere. I think he doesn't want to be close to our family, who will likely be very angry at him for a long while. And he "likes the FL weather".

 

Does he like the FL weather more than he loves his daughter? What a dick.

 

Anyway, the attorney said I could use the relocation as a bargaining chip. I could ask for less alimony in exchange for his not contesting the relocation.

 

I want my little girl to have a good relationship with her dad. But he could make that happen by finding a job in NC.

 

Also, I was thinking about jobs he's mentioned in Baltimore and San Francisco. The very angry part of me knows that he could rationalize having a long distance relationship with her in a hot minute if HE wanted to move away. He can rationalize anything if it benefits him. Dick.

 

2. When to file. He is currently unemployed but looking for a job. I'm thinking we should wait to file until after he finds employment. That way we don't have to amend any support aggrements.

 

Should we split our assets before then? I thinking I should just sit tight until he gets a job, which shouldn't take too long. He's very good at what he does. He already has a company seriously looking at him. I don't want to do anything drastic right now.

 

3. The attorney saw a red flag in how much money he makes. His gross income is over $150K, and hasn't contributed anything to a retirement account. The attorney thought it was worth checking into, especially considering my husband's been wanting to leave for over two years. I can see all of our bank accounts. But I guess there's a possibility he's squirreled away money.

 

Honestly, as long as he pays me what's fair, I don't care.

 

Thoughts?

[amaysngrace]

You should be entitled to a portion of his retirement savings so you should care.

 

I guess my biggest question is why you'd call your exH a dick for wanting your daughter to stay near her home? In one breath you're saying you want to go back to NC and he's making that difficult for you then in the next breath you say the thought of putting your daughter through divorce and a move makes you sick.

 

I don't understand.

[d0nnivain]

Yuck. The minute you start talking about bargaining chips this is going to be a long drawn out contest that costs a fortune.

 

You don't get everything you want in a divorce, at least not without an expensive fight. You want to move. That's on you. Expecting your EX to move is unrealistic.

 

Do not wait for your EX to get a job. The court will set CS based on what he's capable of earning. I do agree with the lawyer that a forensic accountant would be a good investment.

 

Do not count on alimony. It's a highly disfavored concept. Unless you were a SAHM who paid for your husband to get his degree while you were married, there may not be a basis for it. Then again, if he was earning $150k while you made minimum wage, there is something to be said for the lifestyle to which you have become accustomed.

 

Anything you & your EX can agree on amicably will reduce your overall expenditures on lawyers. If the lawyers have to split up every item you jointly own that is a lot of lawyer time. Instead if you two can create a list & give it to the attorney so all that person has to do is plug it into a property settlement agreement format that will be more more cost effective for you.

 

Remember the more you dig in your heels, the more expensive the divorce. One of my BFFs who is a divorce lawyer says the biggest mistake people make is thinking it's 50/50. It's not. Usually you get 1/3; your EX gets 1/3 and the 2 lawyers split the other 1/3. If you really fight & contest everything it is 50/50. You & your spouse split 50% of your assets & the lawyers take the other 50%.

[lunajane]

Is this strange? I mean, I'm basically a grab bag of emotions right now.

 

He assures me that there's nothing I could have done. He doesn't want to go to counseling.

 

I gave him tons of space and freedom because I thought that would help him to be happier. He had lots of stress at work. But then he walked out the door.

 

Maybe if I'd done the opposite, this wouldn't have happened. He says if I'd done the opposite, things would have ended sooner.

 

I just can't help but wonder if there was something I could have done.

 

We fought no more than any married couples do. Probably much less. Again, I didn't want to stress him out. But I guess we were fighting about the wrong things.

 

I built a life in FL that he didn't want be a part of. I thought it was a happy life, full of friends, activities, traditions. I never understood why he didn't want to participate. He wanted to hang out with his friends at bars. But should I have built a different life? I don't how to incorporate bar hopping and a toddler, though.

 

He wanted to have a child. He told me he was ready. But then he never really seemed to like being a father. A family man. At least not in the traditional sense.

 

I realize now that I made a huge mistake in choosing this man as the father of my child. And now her life will be forever changed, really, because of me.

 

Ugh. This ****ing sucks.

[lunajane]

You should be entitled to a portion of his retirement savings so you should care.

 

I guess my biggest question is why you'd call your exH a dick for wanting your daughter to stay near her home? In one breath you're saying you want to go back to NC and he's making that difficult for you then in the next breath you say the thought of putting your daughter through divorce and a move makes you sick.

 

I don't understand.

 

I'm very conflicted on what to do about relocation. On one hand, I don't want to take my daughter away from her home and her dad.

 

On the other, although it would be hard for her at first, I think she would adjust. And she would have the benefit of growing up around a large family that loves and misses her.

 

And she doesn't have to live away from her dad. He could find a job in NC.

 

I go back and forth on it every day. I want make the right decision.

 

And I call him a "dick" because I'm very angry at him for putting me in this position. And he also can be very selfish. Like I said, I'm sure he would rationalize moving away from her if it suited him.