SoMuchMore Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 After over a year of doing everything I can, including working with a marriage counselor on my own, I now realize my wife is never going to be anything more than a coparent. She’s happy with the way things are and says any problems in the relationship are mine alone to solve. I’ve received advise from my counselor, therapist, and most people I’ve talked to, that I should consider divorce. The only reason I don’t is my kids (7,11,15). I love them and am a big part of their lives. Divorce would mean financially having to move them from their school district where they are doing very well and have many friends. It would disrupt their lives much more than the divorce would. I'm amazed how many people relocate their kids without regret but consider a divorce too traumatic. On the other hand I am very affectionate, sensual and sexual. I’ve heard from some people that this is something that I should just willing forego until the kids are grown. To them it seems trivial and not very important, but that’s based on their own values and needs. For me, giving up affection and sensuality would be just as ridiculous as giving up conversations. Since my wife has little or no interest in affection, romance and sex, and likes the relationship just the way it is, I feel we should continue as coparents while I seek relationships outside the marriage until the kids are grown. Or at least until we can afford to split and stay in the same area. It sounds like open marriage, but this isn't really the same intent. I suggested this idea to my wife in a conversation but she became angry and refused. I tried another time and she shut down the conversation. After all the times she’s told me that sex and romance don’t matter at all to her, and marriage is just a piece of paper, why does she care? It just sounds very selfish and jealous of her. Has anyone else gone through a similar situation successfully? If so, how did you negotiate the terms with your spouse? Were you able to still maintain a friendly coparenting relationship? Did you find other people willing to start a relationship with you? How did that go? You would think by the amount of both men and women in similar situations that we could just find each other and be happy. Link to post Share on other sites
Noideanow Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 really hope this works out for you, and you find love:love: your wife sounds like she has something hidden in the closet, i hope you insist on what you want, with or without her, maybe try hard to get her to tell why such arrangement will be a problem for her? (it should be perfect for her too? afterall ask her if she doesnt want/dream about love too?), but im afraid you wont get under her skin and get an honest answer. Dont let her keep you in misery:cool: 1 Link to post Share on other sites
loveboid Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Your wife is not in it for love is what it sounds like to me. I believe this is why people have secret affairs. She may not want you with anyone else because you may leave for the other person. I bet that since she's in it for something else, as long as she gets to keep that something else she won't divorce you if you openly date. Whatever that something else is, I'd find out. As long as that's not threatened in her mind I believe she won't divorce you. I believe this is the reason some women put up with stepping out as long as it's not in their face. I'm sorry you're going through this. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Has anyone else gone through a similar situation successfully? If so, how did you negotiate the terms with your spouse? Were you able to still maintain a friendly coparenting relationship? Considering you don't have agreement on the role of sex within your marriage, seems unrealistic to think you'd successfully negotiate the terms of intimacy outside your relationship. So it sounds as though any activity you'd conduct would have to be in secret. Given the choice, I'd rather divorce. Less drama, more integrity... Mr. Lucky 5 Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 It will not end well. What if you find someone else and she wants more from you? Or she gets pregnant and suddenly your kids have half-siblings elsewhere. At some point, the kids will figure out that their parents do not have the Ozzy & Harriet Household that you are trying to maintain and it will imprint on them that it is normal. I believe creating that type of scenario does a bigger disservice to the children. It teaches them that wedding vows mean nothing. If you want to live your life for YOU and your affection and sensuality, than divorce your wife. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 - why would you have to relocate the kids if you divorce???? Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 In regards to your love/sexual dilemma, she has expressly declared that she does not want a physical relationship with you nor does love/affection/sexuality have any place for her in your marriage. Therefor what you do with your sexuality is none of her business. She has no rights and no claims over your sexuality. As long as it is legal and has no direct negative impact in the kids, do as you please without her input. If she doesn't like you becoming involved with other women, she can either step up to the plate and address her sexual issues and strive for a meaningful marital sex life or she can divorce you. If she doesn't care, she can just live with it and keep her yap shut. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Now the reality is a little more complicated. If a woman isn't happy with her sex life and wants a FB on the side, men will line up down the street and around the corner to service her.... Women are not so accommodating for dissatisfied men. Your options are basically scam the secretary that you're planning on leaving or pay for it. Considering the work and sneaking around and deceptions and expense to carry on with side action, unless you are wealthy or really really really good looking, your quickest and easiest option is to just jettison the frigid bitch and work out a cooperative coparenting arrangement. You are already just roommates and coparents anyway, why not just do it from the freedom of your own home as a divorced man? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I read your other thread. Your wife is cruel, emotionally abusive and thoroughly toxic. She is soulless. Your counselors and therapists have all advised you to leave. This is analogous to having a cancer growing in you and your doctor advises treatment. The treatment will have some immediate side effects but will save your life in the long run. (In this case, your life and well being will improve in weeks. Get with a good divorce attorney on the down low and start working on a thorough and comprehensive divorce plan. You will need to get her employed before you file so you don't pay out the ass for child support and spousal support. Work with your attorney and accountant on all the details and game plans. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Author SoMuchMore Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Wow, thanks to all for the support, thoughts and tips. I will contact an attorney to at least outline what my options are. I need to make sure my kids aren't sacrificed in whatever action I take. As far as questions about money and relocation, my response could be its own thread but I'll try to be brief. We need every dollar of every paycheck to pay bills and have no savings. The cost of living in our area is very high and our expenses have greatly increased the last few years. We're already in a home at the low end in value and have little equity. We live very frugally already. If I tried to separate today and scraped every way I could, I'd come up with $500 tops. Just a room rental starts at $700 here. Even if we sold the current home there is no way I could find two places to live on my income without moving to another area with more affordable homes or apartments. As suggested, I'll check with an attorney to see what they advise and what options I might not be aware of. Link to post Share on other sites
Author SoMuchMore Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Your wife is not in it for love is what it sounds like to me. I believe this is why people have secret affairs. She may not want you with anyone else because you may leave for the other person. I bet that since she's in it for something else, as long as she gets to keep that something else she won't divorce you if you openly date. Whatever that something else is, I'd find out. As long as that's not threatened in her mind I believe she won't divorce you. I believe this is the reason some women put up with stepping out as long as it's not in their face. I'm sorry you're going through this. Thank you, loveboid. Both my MC and I are sure she's in it for the stable home for her and the kids. We aren't rich, but we live in a good area and pay the bills. Our kids are doing very well in school and have great friendships. She's finishing her degree and has autonomy over her life. All her needs are currently being met. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 As far as questions about money and relocation, my response could be its own thread but I'll try to be brief. We need every dollar of every paycheck to pay bills and have no savings. The cost of living in our area is very high and our expenses have greatly increased the last few years. We're already in a home at the low end in value and have little equity. We live very frugally already. If I tried to separate today and scraped every way I could, I'd come up with $500 tops. Just a room rental starts at $700 here. Even if we sold the current home there is no way I could find two places to live on my income without moving to another area with more affordable homes or apartments. This should be your immediate concern, regardless of the state of your sex life. Throw your pent up energy into work and making money for the life you want. Link to post Share on other sites
Author SoMuchMore Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Considering you don't have agreement on the role of sex within your marriage, seems unrealistic to think you'd successfully negotiate the terms of intimacy outside your relationship. So it sounds as though any activity you'd conduct would have to be in secret. Given the choice, I'd rather divorce. Less drama, more integrity... Mr. Lucky From what I've seen it's hard to predict where all the drama will come from, but I understand what you're saying. My first priority is keeping as much integrity in my role as dad. It feels like I will lose some no matter what I do. If I stay in the marriage my kids learn from a bad relationship and might end up in their own someday. I can tell that they lose respect for me when I keep calm and take it, but it's no better when I stand firm and they feel the mood grow tense. If I leave then I'm a quitter and we have at least 50% less time together. It's a cyclical cluster or lose-lose. I don't know how parents in this situation keep from passing out from all the dizzy thoughts Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Wow, thanks to all for the support, thoughts and tips. I will contact an attorney to at least outline what my options are. I need to make sure my kids aren't sacrificed in whatever action I take. As far as questions about money and relocation, my response could be its own thread but I'll try to be brief. We need every dollar of every paycheck to pay bills and have no savings. The cost of living in our area is very high and our expenses have greatly increased the last few years. We're already in a home at the low end in value and have little equity. We live very frugally already. If I tried to separate today and scraped every way I could, I'd come up with $500 tops. Just a room rental starts at $700 here. Even if we sold the current home there is no way I could find two places to live on my income without moving to another area with more affordable homes or apartments. As suggested, I'll check with an attorney to see what they advise and what options I might not be aware of. This is why you need to work very methodically and thoroughly with an attorney and possibly an accountant. This should not be a quick and rapid process but rather a mindful and thorough and comprehensive one. Suck it up and go along with her as if everything is fine. Don't rock the boat or make waves. Don't whine or bitch or make any threats and for God's sake don't say anything to her about divorce or plans to leave or separate etc. You want to have everything worked and in place before you drop the bomb. Battles are won and lost well before the first shot is ever fired. You want her first hint that you are thinking of divorcing is when she is handed the papers. Your attorney will likely want her employed and self-supporting by then. This may take awhile. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 As far as questions about money and relocation, my response could be its own thread but I'll try to be brief. We need every dollar of every paycheck to pay bills and have no savings. The cost of living in our area is very high and our expenses have greatly increased the last few years. We're already in a home at the low end in value and have little equity. We live very frugally already. If I tried to separate today and scraped every way I could, I'd come up with $500 tops. Just a room rental starts at $700 here. Even if we sold the current home there is no way I could find two places to live on my income without moving to another area with more affordable homes or apartments. Does your wife work? She has some responsibility for her own financial well-being... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 If I leave then I'm a quitter and we have at least 50% less time together. It's a cyclical cluster or lose-lose. I don't know how parents in this situation keep from passing out from all the dizzy thoughts My new husband went through this. He tried to stay with his ExW for eight years and five counselors before he threw in the towel. Their custody battle was so vindictive that he emptied his retirement savings to pay for lawyers for custody. We met six years after his divorce and I am really lucky that his kids and I get along, but even they confirmed that they know their Mother is wacko and were surprised their Dad stayed as long as he did. You aren't necessarily a quitter when the writing is on the wall and the kids are probably more insightful than you might be giving them credit for. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 From what I've seen it's hard to predict where all the drama will come from, but I understand what you're saying. My first priority is keeping as much integrity in my role as dad. It feels like I will lose some no matter what I do. If I stay in the marriage my kids learn from a bad relationship and might end up in their own someday. I can tell that they lose respect for me when I keep calm and take it, but it's no better when I stand firm and they feel the mood grow tense. If I leave then I'm a quitter and we have at least 50% less time together. It's a cyclical cluster or lose-lose. I don't know how parents in this situation keep from passing out from all the dizzy thoughts The needs of children are selfish in this sense - they want supportive parents emotionally able to interact with them in a positive environment. Resentment, frustration, drama, turmoil and dissension are all counterproductive towards these goals. You have two good options (and several lousy ones ): 1). Figure out a way to live an emotionally healthy life in your current environment. 2). Get a new environment. Not sure 1). is even possible... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Author SoMuchMore Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 The needs of children are selfish in this sense - they want supportive parents emotionally able to interact with them in a positive environment. Resentment, frustration, drama, turmoil and dissension are all counterproductive towards these goals. You have two good options (and several lousy ones ): 1). Figure out a way to live an emotionally healthy life in your current environment. 2). Get a new environment. Not sure 1). is even possible... Mr. Lucky Yeah, it's really looking like #1 is not an option. Thanks to Downtown in the other thread, I'm learning very quickly how much my wife really matches the behavior of BPD. So many light bulbs are turning on in my head that it feels like a spotlight. Link to post Share on other sites
jaskiegs Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Take it from me, a MM in a situation not too dissimilar from yours, although my wife is not nearly so dead. Some similarities, especially when it comes to affection (why is it when you say affection, people assume you mean sex), but not quite a bad. Anyway...DON'T DO IT. I fell madly in love with another woman. I still am madly in love with her. But the effed up nature of the relationship makes it not work, at least 99% of the time. Had I divorced and then started the relationship, I have little doubt I would be married with another child by now but because of all the luggage in the relationship, my life is in shambles. I suppose if your wife would agree to an open relationship, that's one thing. But in your description of your life, you are hardly saving your children heartache as it is. You know what to do...it's not easy but the time has likely come. Link to post Share on other sites
Josmatjes Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 After over a year of doing everything I can, including working with a marriage counselor on my own, I now realize my wife is never going to be anything more than a coparent. She’s happy with the way things are and says any problems in the relationship are mine alone to solve. I’ve received advise from my counselor, therapist, and most people I’ve talked to, that I should consider divorce. The only reason I don’t is my kids (7,11,15). I love them and am a big part of their lives. Divorce would mean financially having to move them from their school district where they are doing very well and have many friends. It would disrupt their lives much more than the divorce would. I'm amazed how many people relocate their kids without regret but consider a divorce too traumatic. On the other hand I am very affectionate, sensual and sexual. I’ve heard from some people that this is something that I should just willing forego until the kids are grown. To them it seems trivial and not very important, but that’s based on their own values and needs. For me, giving up affection and sensuality would be just as ridiculous as giving up conversations. Since my wife has little or no interest in affection, romance and sex, and likes the relationship just the way it is, I feel we should continue as coparents while I seek relationships outside the marriage until the kids are grown. Or at least until we can afford to split and stay in the same area. It sounds like open marriage, but this isn't really the same intent. I suggested this idea to my wife in a conversation but she became angry and refused. I tried another time and she shut down the conversation. After all the times she’s told me that sex and romance don’t matter at all to her, and marriage is just a piece of paper, why does she care? It just sounds very selfish and jealous of her. Has anyone else gone through a similar situation successfully? If so, how did you negotiate the terms with your spouse? Were you able to still maintain a friendly coparenting relationship? Did you find other people willing to start a relationship with you? How did that go? You would think by the amount of both men and women in similar situations that we could just find each other and be happy. I've gone through something similar. My husband has little to no interest in sex...I on the other and feel its really importance. I suggested the same as you and he looked at me like I was crazy! Now I'm asking for a divorce because I can't live like this anymore.... Link to post Share on other sites
Clarence_Boddicker Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 You are rewarding your wife's bad behavior. Stop giving her anything she wants. I'd limit my communication with her. Get a better or 2nd job. Get a stealth (trusted family or friend to have the box name under) safe deposit box to hide money in. You will need it. Link to post Share on other sites
LifeNomad Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I have over a year split with my ex, we cooperate fully when it comes to kids, but was bumpy at first, ive loaned her money for kids, she consults woth me first when it comes to kids situation, which is great as i always show hwr she can count on me for anything as i personally wpuldnt like it if another guy was making decisions about my.kids (she does have a bf) However its my kids that kill me, my 5 yr old asked me when i was planning on moving to a new house so we can all live together again (the mom included), my 3 yr old asked me just 2 days ago when her mommy was gonna love me again, she also told me last week she wished i lived with them....those things kill me everytime and no matter how happy i am it almost brings me back to square one, filled with regret and at times wishing things were different. Link to post Share on other sites
central Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Let me put it succinctly: you can d1tch the b1tch and still be a good, involved parent. In fact, you will be a better parent if you can find a GOOD, loving relationship that will provide a good example to you kids. Right now they are learning and modeling dysfunctional relationship skills from your example. It will harm their future happiness and ability to create healthy relationships. Give them a better model, and also show them that being decisive is a healthy trait when needed to extricate yourself from an unhealthy relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
casey.lives Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 If you do choose to live like that "for the children" what are you teaching them???????????? Link to post Share on other sites
ShatteredLady Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Hi. I'm so sorry. What degree is your wife doing? When will she be finished? She should be able to work in the future. Even if you had a wonderful M given your financial situation she should be looking for employment anyway! You should have savings. What about your children's further education? Once she has her degree & career it should be so much easier to run 2 households. I know that everyday can seem like an eternity when you're miserable but I can see a light at the end of the tunnel here. It's clear that you're a thoughtful, loving parent. Please don't do anything that's against your moral code, it will only turn you into the bad guy. Continue to be a MAN that your children can respect. That kind of mental illness makes it almost impossible for the sufferer to realize that they're sick & put in the absolute dedication necessary to NOT torture those close to them. I'm so sorry. You're walking on eggshells. That's no way to live. PLAN, PLAN & PLAN some more. Best of luck in your HAPPY future. Link to post Share on other sites
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