How to deal with $$/Terms during Trial Separation as Sole Bread-Earner?

[starglider]

I'm planning for a 3 month trial separation from my husband but I'm the sole bread-earner. We have a 9 year old daughter and I want to do this right. Any advice on how much money to give him each month during the separation? Any feedback on my plan below?

 

I'll list out background facts and what I'm thinking of doing.

 

Background:

-He's been unemployed for 9 years, marginally keeping up the house hold while I worked.

-We have a new brick and mortar business we have to keep running while I also work as a consultant.

-He's recently started anti-depression meds and is still a chronic pot smoker

-He only has one close friend (his EA partner, I believe) in the area

-He doesn't have the support network in friends and family that I have

-He's on a fitness kick and is into healthy food and working out (yay!)

-He is able to deal with shopping, cooking, cleaning, laundry, pets but hasn't done any bill-paying financial stuff in 15 years, since we met.

-We own a house with pets, we own a business nearby where we have 2 extra bedrooms and a kitchen

-We have access to my parents' nearby condo which is currently empty.

-So we have options of places to live where there will be no rent/lease needed.

 

My Plan:

-Close down our join account and take back his credit card from my personal account

-Set up a private banking account for him (he has none)

-Give him XXX dollars a month to cover food, gas, misc

-Maybe have him pay his own health insurance from the monthly fund (my daughter and I can be on one plan, he on another) now that I'm switching plans anyway. He'll have to budget this from the money he gets each month.

-His monthly stipend requires him to work 2 days a week at our business and do lawn work and trash each week at any time he wants. (I'll work the other 3 days each week - we're closed 2 days).

-Daughter stays at home in our house and he and I will switch during separation. I'm with her 4-5 days a week, he is with her 2-3 days a week depending on how we negotiate it.

-On nights we don't stay at home with our daughter, he and I stay either at our business or at my folks' condo. (Maybe I should spell out who stays where)

-I show him what I'm paying for cable, phone, electric etc so he'll know but I'll cover rent and utilities during 3 months because I already am anyway.

 

Conditions

-we each do IC and MC (I'll pay for this)

-he quits smoking pot and I quit cigarettes

-no dating or sex with others during separation

-no talk of divorce during separation

-no selling anything major (car etc.)

 

-Should I insist he gets a job on his days off or let him concentrate on therapy during the separation? I tend to think he needs to be part of the work force again but he is floundering and I've been supporting him too much. I want him to learn how to stand on his own two feet again.

 

-Should I stay in the house and have daughter move to condo/business on nights she is with him? All three places are fine for living, but the home has all of our pets and she loves the cats.

 

-Any advice on calculating how much money he gets a month for food, gas, misc. I don't want to be paying for his pot anymore!

 

Thanks for your feedback

Edited May 2, 2015 by starglider

[beach]

You can't force him to do anything.

 

He will do what he's going to do.

 

 

I think your separation plan is well mapped out...except your expectations of the way HE is to participate.

 

He may not work at all.

He may not get health ins.

He may opt not to go to any counseling.

 

If you want him gone - then cut the ties, form an agreement through legal means and be done with him.

 

 

He will adjust after you adjust what he gets. The less you give the more he will need to get creative and figure out how to make it work.

[devilish innocent]

My suggestion would be to start the marriage counseling first. I'm not sure if you can work on the marriage while separated. But the marriage counselor should be able to provide feedback on this. It also seems strange that you don't want any talk of divorce, yet you are looking at doing a trial separation. I thought the whole point of a trial separation was to see if divorce was the right option for you. Quitting cigarettes and pot can also make people tense, so might be hard to do while you're working on other areas of the relationship. You seem to taking a lot on your plate when focusing on one thing at a time might be a better option.

[Akashsingh]

The courts usually have sympathetic view of women in proceedings. Having said that, if you are the only bread winner, then you owe child support and maintenance.

 

child support is a standard calculation.

 

Maintenance is just and equitable.

 

In lieu of above two, you can not ask for favors in return. He will and can do what he wants to do.

 

Similarly, if the courts were to be unbiased and he decided to take you for cleaners, you will also end up paying his attorney fees. However, most attorneys dont like to help men in this situation. The attorney fees for other party are based on need of a person and ability of the adverse party to pay. Its a bit different in family law.

 

So to make it smooth, calculate the child support, which is a standard calculation and get him to agree to a maintenance that gets him by.

 

The property division would be equitable: meaning he will get half of what you earned together. Since he is not earning, he may get more, but unlikely. It seems since you have more assets than him, he has more to gain and you have more to lose. Be careful.

[jakrbbt]

I was the sole breadwinner and wife. Some of your issues sound familiar to me. One thing I'd say is: Whether you stay together or divorce, one thing that's going to be hard for you is, learning how to quit taking care of him.

 

And know that he has the right to disagree with your separation terms. Then what?

 

If you are going to separate with terms, I'd advise a legal separation (that might then be turned into a divorce agreement if you two don't reconcile). And the most important thing to iron out there will be the parenting plan. You don't want to do it without legal advice.

 

You're not going to end up paying his legal expenses for divorce, that's a common misconception. (At least, you won't pay them unless you pull some BS in court that the judge thinks is so legally outrageous that the other party should not have incurred legal fees to fight it. That's rare.)

 

You won't owe "spousal maintenance" unless you live in a state that has that (by statute) AND you fit the criteria. There are different kinds of spousal support, maintenance is just one. And not all states have every kind.

 

Another common misconception (again, talking divorce) is that the sole breadwinner will be forced to pay the other spouse enough money that the other spouse can continue being a divorced stay-at-home parent. Weirdly, lots of people who have been through divorce even still think that. All the divorce professionals I talked to rolled their eyes at that super common misconception. People will go all the way to trial, ignoring all the advice, because they stubbornly believe that once a SAHP (stay-at-home-parent), always a SAHP. Most can't grasp the legal ins and outs, so if you go for separation and divorce, check with a lawyer.

 

Beach is right, you cannot control what your husband is going to do during either a separation or a divorce. He may file for divorce during separation, especially if he has that common misconception that you'll have to take care of him while he smokes weed and doesn't work. A separation won't give him child and spousal support, but (in his mind maybe) a divorce would. So don't separate without knowing about your divorce options. Even if you love each other and might reconcile.

 

When I moved out (after lots of MC and lots of trying to warn ex), I paid double rent and double expenses for a couple months, ouch! I did it so ex could get a job and still have time to spend with our baby. He spent the time mostly being hurt and not doing anything. In fact I think he purposely stayed unemployed until the divorce was final, for the support calculation (another common thing, but courts will impute min wage). The point is: I don't regret that expenditure, because it allowed me to MOVE OUT when I did. And while he didn't find a job in 2 months, he found another free living situation. It worked out.

 

So if it's fairness you're thinking of, then I'd say that letting him live in the condo for free, and having some workable parenting-plan, is fair while the separation is pending. That's if you want him to work. If you are ok with supporting him forever as long as he quits weed, then tell him so, and give him some time to quit, maybe without the mess of a separation. He'll have to all but quit anyway if you two get divorced and he wants any significant time with your child.

 

I wanted to separate too, rather than divorce. Now I think, what on earth was I thinking? If his weed smoking is enough of an issue for you that you'd leave him for it, then do so (I say that kindly). If you try to separate just so he will change, then the changes will seem disingenuous and my guess is that neither of you will be happy. He will change when he gets a job, does his own finances., and deals with his addiction-- and, most likely, sometime after you officially don't care.

 

What I'd do in your shoes is tell him that the weed is a deal-breaker for me and that you need MC. It can be a scary conversation, but at least you'll see whether he can change that. If not, then really, prepare for a legal separation or even divorce.

 

Do what's best for your daughter and don't try too hard to control his end of things. That's hard, don't I still know it! But it's best.

[starglider]

Thank you for your responses and thank you jakrbbt for your detailed and highly informative feedback. I really appreciate the time and sharing you gave on these specifics.

 

I'm feeling strong! We have a big event over Mother's Day weekend so I'm not bring up the separation until after then. Just have to make it through this week!

[jakrbbt]

That's good, I hope your week is going well OP. Another piece of general advice I keep thinking of:

 

Get comfortable with the idea of "sub-optimal but workable." Or: "Not what I'd chosen and planned, but I can work with it." I mean that, whether you separate, divorce or stay together.

 

You'll thank yourself if you can manage the little bends in the road that simply come because another person has some legal standing and some different ideas than you.

 

If you can really say that, no matter how the separation/divorce goes, it's better than staying married like this forever, then it's important to remind yourself of that often.

 

Like you, I had some pretty specific ideas about what was best-- not because I always want to drive, but because my ex wasn't doing anything or even communicating. And because it's scary to make the huge change that is divorce. I didn't see it then, but I was already in a situation that was way out of my control-- even my portion of it. I was in a failing marriage with crippling problems. I was really in reaction mode, weather-the-changes mode, let's-deal-with-this-fallout mode, not "set up your life and what you want in it" mode. There's nothing wrong with being in weather-the-changes mode. We all have those times in life.

 

What helped me the most was visiting a family therapist with my toddler. She was able to explain the difference between A) what I wanted for our child, B) what was bad for the child, and then C) allllll the acceptable variations in between those two. The hardest was letting go of what I wanted for my then-husband. You might find some similarities, maybe not, but I hope this helps. Keep us updated.

[starglider]

Thank you, Jakrbbt, for more great words of wisdom. I appreciate it so much.

 

I just had a session with my IC and in two days my H and I have our first session with a new MC (my IC met with us both once, but suggested we get a separate MC as she has met with me alone). My goal for the Thursday session is to see if we can arrive at a level of civility (i.e. no fighting in front of our daughter) to stay under the same roof, and if not, then to plan for a separation.

 

My therapist also reminded me that when men (in particular) come out of a long depression a lot of anger can come with it - anger that had formerly been turned inward. So his high level of anger and lashing out is consistent with his progress in the depression. It is just very unpleasant for me, but I'm dealing with it.

 

We had more arguing today and I told him about my concern of how he'll support himself if I'm not in the picture and he said "by living off of half of what you own." I told him the court may not necessarily rule in his favor in the regard. This made him yell that all I care about is money, once again.

 

I'm feeling like I'm in a pretty good place, despite it all.

Edited May 5, 2015 by starglider

[jakrbbt]

Just keep asking yourself whether divorce is better in the long run than staying for life in a marriage like yours. And I don't know the answer to that, but I am guessing that you're in that limbo where you can't really go on like this, but you don't know that you can divorce, so you're trying to set up the best possible separation outcome and at the same time change the marriage.

 

Know that you can be fine, in a dozen different ways, if you divorce. Now, as to whether you and your daughter can be fine if you stay married, I don't know the answer to that. Maybe so-- plenty contemplate divorce and then stay happily married. But I believe that rather than trying to avoid every hardship, you should know that you can weather a hardship. After carrying a depressed, unemployed person on your shoulders (and probably doing so largely for the sake of your child), you probably do not believe you can or should take any shake-ups or any more hardships. But that is an absolute illusion. Don't make decisions just to avoid hard stuff. Make them for your future and your child's future. You will thank yourself.

 

Your ex plans to live off you for life, whether married or not. His attitude by the way, is not very constructive toward your daughter, who would benefit most from two incomes after divorce. You may feel hurt and exploited during a divorce. He actually can't exploit you as much during a divorce as during a lifetime of marriage to you.

 

He may go for some kind of majority parenting time/custody if he believes that that will affect the child support. That's a nasty fight, but dont' take it personally if it happens, it's the outcry of a weak man wanting to use you and feeling he has to. And not to sound contentious, but keep a record of his drug use. Courts will not look kindly on someone who smokes weed, refuses to quit, and on top of it, plans not to work. A request for majority parenting time/sole custody in such circumstances might not go over well. But send him an email or similar, asking him to finally quit smoking weed.

 

He may be able to "live off of" half of what you own, I don't know. It depends on how much "marital property" you two have. (In my state, for example, that's anything that was acquired during the marriage.) But he won't likely get half your income. If you become established and shoot me an PM I am happy to tell you the financial details of my own divorce, but I am not likely in the same state. Still, I would be surprised if any state legislature decided to essentially fund unemployment by awarding one parent half the income of the other parent after divorce. SAHP is an agreement between married people, during marriage--- not a right that is funded by the state.

 

At nine-plus years, he has a shot at some custody and parenting time if he claims he was the primary parent. Maybe go to my (long) thread entitled "he filed, asked for sole custody" to see how that request played out in my divorce after a much shorter marriage. I say a lot in there about what I leaned of alleged primary parents and custody disputes.

 

Also after a marriage of your length, he may get some kind of spousal support-- I am not sure. It depends on your state, the laws in it, and also (don't forget) each party's willingness to settle just to avoid trial.

 

But please know, the court knows you are both that child's parents, and you won't be either kept from her or bankrupted by the divorce to the point where you can't take care of her.

 

Don't stay in a marriage only because of fear, is what I'm getting at. Stay for other reasons if you're going to stay in it.

 

And try to stop worrying about what your husband will do if you divorce. Everyone told me this: He will figure it out. I didn't believe it in my case. But mine did, just like he always did even before he met me. Yours will too. and I have a little secret for you: If he does not figure it out (should you divorce or separate), then the marriage would not have been a constructive one for you or him or your daughter in the long term, and at least you'll know that.

[PegNosePete]

What is the point of this "trial separation"?

 

What is being tried, exactly?

 

What are the success/failure conditions of the trial?

 

Under what conditions will the trial result in a reconciliation, as opposed to a permanent separation?

[Miss Clavel]

I'm planning for a 3 month trial separation from my husband but I'm the sole bread-earner. We have a 9 year old daughter and I want to do this right. Any advice on how much money to give him each month during the separation? Any feedback on my plan below?

 

 

Thanks for your feedback

 

it seems to me that you are a catch. stable and successful, surrounded by friends and family. therefore, i suggest you make sure it works out that he gets weekends. that way, down the line you will be free to make new "friends".

 

in the meantime, go see a lawyer, because i'm pretty sure that whatever amount you give your, imo, stbex, is going to be used against you in the event you do divorce.

 

you will be stuck supporting him for the next 11 years, at a time when your daughter's life will become more and more expensive(braces, lessons, car, car insurance, prom and college) and you will be saving for your own retirement.

 

and he needs to save for HIS. which he probably won't do and he won't be able to work outside doing lawns forever.

 

seek legal advice.

[Friskyone4u]

In also confused about what goal of trial separation is ??? How are you going to confirm he stops smoking pot ( good idea by the way), and if infidelity had anything to do with this how is that stipulation confirmed about no dating or sex with others.

His comment to you about he will live off half of what you have is not too great to hear I am sure.

It seems like you have this really well thought out plan but the end result you want to be???????????

[starglider]

My goal of the trial separation is really to give things one last chance, given that we have 15 years together and a daughter. Then in my mind, I'll have given it everything I could (including marriage counseling) in case things could turn around in a big way for us.

 

We went to one session of MC and I like the counselor, so does my H. Since the first session we haven't been arguing so much as we were the week leading up to the session. So I'll get the counselor's input on if we should separate or give things one more try while living together. (We're having limited contact this week in our home, spending time in different rooms in the evening and when we sleep, and I'm spending time out with my daughter and her friends to get out of the "heavy" house right now).

 

I'm at the stage of going back and forth on the question of "can we work it out and do I really want to try to work things out?" and on the other hand feeling like I'm mentally and logistically preparing for divorce. For me, the guilt of leaving him is still present and I know I have to work on this myself to be strong enough for divorce. It is unhealthy (codependent) guilt, but I still feel it.

 

It is hard and sad. I used to think that couples who divorced "took the easy way out" and I'll never see it that way again. This is tough stuff! In a way, I will always "love" him in some way as a result of having spent so many years with him, but my respect and admiration for him have been so compromised by his pot addiction, his withdrawal from our family during his depression, and by him depending on me financially for about a decade (he worked the first 5 years when we dated). Plus his desperation at the thought of me leaving resulted in such nasty words/lashing out from him and this isn't helping any hope of reconciliation.

 

As for my stipulations, they really are guides/goals. I won't be able to prove that he has or hasn't stopped smoking pot, but this is something in my mind that would need to happen for us to have a future. As for the no dating/sex stipulation, it is really trying to make sure that we're on the same page that this is a time to hang in there together to see if we can work things out - not a free pass to start finding a new partner; that's all.

 

Once upon a time I fell in love with a kind, sweet man who had issues and I mistakenly thought I could rescue him with my love. Now I see I had/have issues for letting myself get into this and continuing it for many unhealthy years.

 

Thanks again for all your support!

[starglider]

Just an update ...

 

My H and I have been to MC twice and I think the male counselor is a good one. We've made it through a big business event, Mother's Day (with his extended family coming to town and staying with us), and our daughter's birthday with civility and some moments of humor and fun.

 

Arguing has died down and we don't argue in front of our child anymore.

 

The big issues remain and we'll keep working on them. Right now I'm inclined to try to stay under the same roof while we work on our M. I've heard that physical separation creates momentum outward so this makes MC harder and that makes sense. I'm ok with trying it this way while we stay in the same house.

 

I still feel like I'm mentally/emotionally detaching and I don't see that H is listening to my POV too much because he is still so defensive. But I'll give it time. Maybe my words are sinking in, even if he doesn't show that he has heard it yet. I starting to see my negative role in things too.

 

We were on the verge of an argument the other day and my daughter just went over and gave him a hug. It was touching and sad to see. I guess we can all use hugs.

[beach]

What is your goal? To stay married or to end the marriage?

[starglider]

Beach,

 

I still don't know if my goal is to stay married or to end the marriage. I don't know how common it is to not know this - it is very confusing.

 

When I go to my CODA meetings (codependents anonymous) I'm quite clear that this is an unhealthy relationship and I've been an enabler and a rescuer for too long (financial support and keeping up the family life when his pot-smoking prevents it). He has his current addiction to weed and in the past has been addicted to coke, alcohol, cigarettes (all of which he has overcome). Now he is addicted to fitness (the gym and healthy foods) which at least is a healthier arena for him. I can become controlling as a rescuer and I avoid reality through my own addiction to technology or work or (now) cigarettes.

 

Is this normal not to know if I want to stay married or divorce?

 

Because we have a daughter who loves us both, I feel it is my obligation to hang in there a while longer and let the answer manifest itself.

 

I guess my goal is to get into a healthy and strong place for myself and my daughter. If my husband pulls himself up to do the same ... if he is a more active/equal partner in the grown-up areas of running a home, if we restore intimacy in our relationship, if he faces his dependency on pot, if we have a better social life in our community as a family unit (not just me, my daughter, and our friends) ... then yes, let's stay married. If not, I'm ready to divorce.

 

I focus on the bad aspects in my posts but obviously there is enough good that I've stayed in there this long. He is a loving father, his values and ethics are in sync with mine, he has a warmth and charm to his spirit, he wants to be optimistic in life, he loves animals, he loves me. But he is immature and troubled.

 

Codependents have a hard time walking away from unhealthy relationships, I've learned, so I don't know if my ambivalence is from unhealthy fear of detachment or a mature willingness to see if things can improve.

Edited May 14, 2015 by starglider

[jakrbbt]

It is very normal to be confused about whether you want to stay or divorce. A lot of the people who are instantly sure, are maybe those who have been cheated on. You have other issues. It isn't so cut-and-dry for you.

 

Your husband sounds so much like my ex. The positives as well as the negatives, very similar. And you may have to deal with the control issues you've developed in being such a helper/enabler.

 

For me, there were several mini-moments of realization. But I was squarely one foot in marriage, one in divorce. I believe that what did it for me, was this one night when I lay staring at my son's crib, and I thought:

 

"No matter what, I will not live out the rest of my entire life in an unhealthy relationship."

 

It just wasn't me-- the possibility of that future didn't feel real-- it was odd and icky and terrifying to think of. And it was somehow easier to think of it that way, than to ask myself whether I wanted to divorce or not.

 

You are asking for a whole lot of changes from hour husband. And it is likely he won't make those changes until divorced, if at all.

 

It's likely he will feel very threatened by a separation, since he sees you as his support. And to make matters more tense, you'd be putting your own conditions on it, which mostly have to do with what he can or can't do.

 

He will not react in his most mature way, when feeling threatened. That's why I wouldn't separate (in your situation) but would rather, either stay together or divorce. I know that sounds drastic and kind of officious, but it seems best.

 

The immature reaction from husband, the ****ty scary part of divorce, is worth it if you are in an unhealthy marriage that is not likely to become healthy.

 

I do not know whether you are at the point yet, that your marriage is unlikely to become healthy. I can only speak to the "If."

 

And yes I can tell you that for me, I lived for many months in the horrible limbo of not knowing whether to stay or divorce. Oddly, simply searching for new places to live really helped me to decide, too. I moved out rather than just asking my then-H to leave. But again, mine may have been more unpleasant to me (some would say emotionally abusive) than yours is to you, I don't know.

 

As my lawyer put it (and he is not a touchy-feely hand-holding kind of lawyer), divorcing with a child is more like a re-structuring of the family, rather than an end to the family. I think he was speaking from the child's point of view-- she will still have a family, mother and father and the stability of school and friends.

 

And a lot of the things you want from your husband, he will almost be forced to do during a divorce. Stop the drug use (especially if it's illegal in your state), get a job, step up as a reliable parent, give you and daughter predictability. I don't mean to toot the divorce horn here, just to allay fear if that is the main thing informing your decision. The more you know, the more true a decision you can make.

 

Try not to think too much about ideals and optimal results. Think more about what is basically healthy and constructive.

[starglider]

For me, there were several mini-moments of realization. But I was squarely one foot in marriage, one in divorce. I believe that what did it for me, was this one night when I lay staring at my son's crib, and I thought:

 

"No matter what, I will not live out the rest of my entire life in an unhealthy relationship."

 

Thank you, jakrbbt, for another thoughtful and helpful reply. It helps me so much to read your words.

 

I've heard from some other divorced mothers that they had this type of clarify come to them as you've described and then there was no turning back. They knew what they had to do.

 

Yesterday in the middle of an argument with my H I had had enough of the fighting and just suggested we do this 3 month separation. I never meant to bring it up during a fight, but rather during a calm moment or in therapy. Needless to say, it didn't go over well.

 

He was angry, defensive, and laid on the guilt, and I was probably stone-walling and emotionally shut down. He said I'd have to be the one to move out and threatened to tell our daughter that night.

 

By the end of the day, I decided to make a family meal for us and texted him what we'd be eating. We had a pleasant evening and he said he didn't want us to separate. I spent the evening zoned out reading self-help books in another room and he was grumpy today that I didn't come up to bed.

 

I'm feeling depressed today but at least I have IC to look forward to.

[jakrbbt]

It's very difficult to think long-term when you're used to caring for a depressed or low-functioning person (or thinking that you are caring for one). Especially while also parenting and working a serious job.

 

It's very difficult, under those circumstances, to recognize what kinds of "hard" stuff you can still handle. It isn't how hard something is, but the type of hard, and the reason for it.

 

I predict that if you divorce, there will be some fairly destructive but temporary lashing-out on your ex's end at first-- and nothing your family cannot handle. I also predict that you'll surprise yourself with how well you can handle the temporary negative stuff. Given some of what you've told us, I also predict that after that, you'll all settle into a long-term situation that will be constructive, and you'll even get along if that's important to you. But if you do divorce, then just in case you don't end up working together well in the long run, I'd recommend a very detailed parenting-plan. Parties can always agree to not-follow the parenting plan, but if you have a very detailed and specific one then you'll have this fall-back guarantee where you know you wont' have to deal with ex at all if you don't want to, and you know what will happen if you two don't deal with each other.

 

That's my general (not including any outcome details) prediction of divorce scenario. As for staying-together scenario, I don't know what that would look like for you long-term. Do you?

[starglider]

Today is a confusing day. H and I had a terrible family vacation where we also brought some of our daughter's friends. H was passive aggressive the whole time, muttering things under his breath about me within earshot of them, refusing to join in the fun activities at the amusement park (claiming physical pain prevented him from joining in), tried to have the kids wait in the hallway so he could argue with me and I refused, then he scared me to death by driving WAY TOO FAST with all of us in the car (I looked, it was over 90 MPH) and he initially refused to slow down, saying he had the right to drive as he wanted to and I couldn't control him if I didn't want to argue when he wanted to and that was a comparable control issue. I told him the two issues were not the same, he was putting us in harm's way now, and if he didn't slow down I would never get into the same car with him again. He finally relented (the children didn't notice as they were watching a movie and talking).

 

We got home and he dropped F bombs at me when our D could hear. She and I slept elsewhere and I said we were over - ready for divorce.

 

Now it is 4 days later I returned home the next night, we went to MC, I shared the story, the MC gave platitudes about keeping our high standards/goals but keeping our expectations of the interactions low and finding a middle ground. I'm kind of stunned he didn't address the driving incident - I don't know if he was caught off guard or what.

 

My girlfriend said the driving thing brought "the abuse" to a new level, higher than the physical abuse she has endured in relationships (I've never encountered physical abuse). This shocked me at first to hear her say this was worse than physical abuse but then confirmed that my anger was justified and a line had been truly crossed when he put our lives at risk by intentionally driving too fast and refusing to slow down for quite some time.

 

But I can't hold onto my anger. I jump into empathy for him that my detachment is extremely hard on him and he is desperate at the thought of losing me. I feel like I'm starting to sound like one of those women who can't leave an abusive relationship. But the fact that my male MC didn't see the driving incident as a deal breaker makes me wonder if this is a gender thing - women feel that is crossing a line of abuse and men think I'm over-reacting to a little extra speed.

 

The mother in me whose instinct is to protect myself and innocent girls feels I cannot back slide on this issue, despite caving in on my statements to separate/divorce in the past.

 

Maybe I need to talk to more local girlfriends about what happened and really do this.

 

Thanks

[starglider]

H and I spoke tonight. We'll go forward with a separation. We'll do it for 2 or 3 months. He agreed to move out. It was amicable and sad. His willingness to do it peacefully was very moving to me. We still have a business to run together so we'll be in contact and overlap there. We'll continue to do MC. He will start IC and I'll continue IC.

 

My D will mainly stay with me and he can come back to our home sometimes to see the pets. We'll play it by ear how often she'll see him/stay with him and how often he'll come to the family home.

 

This is a relief. I'm glad we were able to make arrangements in a calm place and not in a place of anger or F bombs. I'm glad and surprised he's willing to leave our family home -- this is something he refused to do when I brought up separation the other week.

 

We agreed we will both work on ourselves and on finding our own happiness, then we'll evaluate our M and see if absence has made our hearts grow fonder.

 

I didn't share the structured plan/goals of my OP. We just need time apart and that is more important to me than the conditions.

 

It is truly happening now - hard to believe. But good.

Edited May 31, 2015 by starglider

[jakrbbt]

I'm so glad for you that you've mutually decided on a separation that can l lead to either reconciliation or relatively uncontested divorce.

 

The biggie right now--bigger than financial arrangements even--is an agreed, predictable parenting plan. Even if the plan is loose or you both agree to communicate a lot and deviate from it when practical. An agreed, predictable plan would help your child and would establish a status quo so any divorce scenario would hopefully be more set, and thus less contested.

 

Your h sounds like he's been acting out. I'm sure he loves your daughter, but he doesn't seem capable of placing her wellbeing above his need to express his pain. And he has a lot of pain and even panic around relatively small stuff. You need to decide whether you can sustain a life together with someone so weak and destructive--even it'd you love him and even if you're not angry.

 

And don't ever let him drive any of your daughter's friends. Now that you know he can be knowingly reckless and extremely unsafe with kids in the car, you've got a moral obligation to at least warn their parents. If it were my kid I'd be livid to learn that someone in your shoes didn't warn me about their husband's driving even if it were only one incident.

[starglider]

Thanks Jakrbbt,

 

I reread your earlier post after I gave my previous update and remembered your advice on the parenting plan. Yes, we can set that up for sure. I think he was on his RX Xanax tonight, and that might have been why he was so mellow. In fact, I maybe should do the parenting plan now while he is in this easy-going state.

 

Yes, I think you are right about warning the parents about him and the driving situation. Or I'll just have to make sure he doesn't participate as a driver in the future. It really was awful. I've only told two friends about the driving episode yet. It was unreal.