How to deal with a nasty ex...

[nastyex22]

I have an had a very ugly divorce. We have a 9 year old son. My ex felt blindsided by the divorce and I got into a new relationship very quickly that had turned very serious. That was not meant to hurt her -- but it is the fact of the situation.

 

 

But, because of my work schedule -- she has far more time with our son than I do. I see him a couple of times a week for dinner/lunch and every other weekend. But, he lives primarily with her.

 

 

Well, early on - she told our son that I was lying to her about where I was ( I didn't want our son to know I was dating anyone) and then just continued to confide in our son like a best friend. It's completely unhealthy.

 

She told him to grab my phone and spy on me and look through my texts and even listen to my phone conversations.

 

When I introduced my son to my girlfriend -- I introduced her as a "friend" and my ex went and told our son that I left his mom for her...and that I picked her over them.

 

Now, when I eat or spend time with our son -- it's ugly. My son grabs my phone and/or monitors my text messages. Makes fun of my girlfriend (who is very nice to him and spoils him) ... and begs me not to see her anymore because his mother will be mad.

 

Tonight, was particularly awful. He begged me to break up with her ...because his mother told him that she was on a dating website -- because I didn't love them anymore.

 

I am in so much pain -- I love my son. I hate this brainwashing. I do not know what to do.

 

Any advice?

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[joseb]

That is a really tough situation.

 

You need to have a heart to heart with your son, and you need to be firm with him, but in a way to not alienate him. Which is tough. Especially when he is being brainwashed.

 

You have to explain that he can't grab your phone. You are his dad.

His mom is hurt, but telling him to do that is wrong.

You also have to be firm and tell him that he can't make fun of your girlfriend.

 

You also need to make sure that he knows you love him very much, and that although you loved his mom, that relationship is now over.

 

Can I ask, what was the relationship like before you split up?

Maybe I'm seeing things everywhere now, but her behaviour sounds a little like that of a BPD scorned.

[nastyex22]

I tried all of these elements tonight -- but my son just cried all through dinner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My ex and I were cordial but had our issues --which are very complicated.

 

 

I told her the divorce was coming, but she continued to be in denial. She did not realize that I was dating after it was filed. She thought I was bluffing. So she found out the hard way -- that the divorce was real.

She even went through the school parents and told them horrible things about me. It's just been a nightmare. I have apologized for the way things move so quickly, but she doesn't seem to be satisified unless I get back with her. She has done everything she can to bad mouth me to all of our friends and even my co-workers. Our son -- seems to hate me now. Truthfully, it makes me feel like running away -- I don't know how to deal with this constant brainwashing.

[Gary S]

It's called parental alienation syndrome.

 

Do a search for it. Unfortunately, this is very common with divorce and a disgruntled ex, where they turn the children against the other. This is well documented. You'll have plenty of reading to do. There are groups also.

 

Where it stems from: People often only divorce when they get to the point of resentment. They can become very vindictive.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Gary S

[nastyex22]

I think he has a good mother ...for the most part. (not including this situation) but nights like tonight - make me want to fight for full custody and have him with a nanny when I'm working instead of a mother who badmouths me.

 

 

I just feel like such an outsider. I feel as if my interaction with our son only upsets him - because of all of this. Maybe he's better without me.

It's gut wrenching - because I was so involved in his life - until all of this happens.

I mean having the child know about her on a dating site? And then telling him not to tell me these things? He's in agony - not knowing what to think. And hating the woman I was seeing seriously. My son said "mom said if I don't like some she dates - she will instantly stop seeing her... I get to pick."

 

 

Obviously, that's a knock on me - because I have stayed firm with this woman -- no bouncing around.

[DivorcedDad123]

Forget the nanny bit first. No way will you get custody from a parent to spend with a nanny.

Just put that out of your head.

I went through this. Many dads do. Stay firm with your son. Yout rules when he's with you. Dont turn your back on him. My ex told the kids all kinds of things. Now, they ASK to go see my gf. She's good to them. Talks to them like a friend, cooks snacks for them, takes them places, etc. She made a point to have one on one time with them, when the time was right. That made them feel more at ease with her.

She never badmouths their mom to them. She actually encourages them to mind her, even though she knows how she is.

Give it time. He's 9. The more he's around her the more he'll be at ease, but spend time one on one with him too. Let him know he's your priority.

[neowulf]

Personally, if I were in your situation, I'd be signing up for counselling sessions with your boy.

 

You need a third party, someone with the training and experience to help you navigate this situation.

 

It's going to be next to impossible to make any progress while the ex continues to poison his mind against you.

 

If you attempt to gain full custody, he may well end up hating you for separating him from his mother. Not to mention it'll only serve to intensify her vindictive behaviour.

 

My advice, don't try unravel this yourself. It's a complex situation that really doesn't have a "good" option, only choices and consequences.

[joseb]

It's called parental alienation syndrome.

 

Do a search for it. Unfortunately, this is very common with divorce and a disgruntled ex, where they turn the children against the other. This is well documented. You'll have plenty of reading to do. There are groups also.

 

Where it stems from: People often only divorce when they get to the point of resentment. They can become very vindictive.

 

Any good books on it for the OP to read?

[Raena]

How long have you been divorced? Is this recent? How long did you wait after you split up with your son's mother before you introduced your gf to him?

 

I ask because your son could easily be acting out in this manner simply because he equates you leaving to you being with someone new at the same time. He could be upset about the changes in his routine or the fact that the rules are different in both homes or simply because you have someone new in your life and don't see him as often as you used to.

 

Your ex probably has said some inappropriate things to your child. You hurt her and then left her to take care of your child alone most of the time. I'm sure there is more to that story, but those are the details that you shared. Sadly, this is what OFTEN happens when families split up and Mom has custody the majority of the time. Your ex shouldn't be badmouthing you to your child, that's a major no-no, but given the details you shared... it seems reasonable that she's hurting and not dealing with the reality of her life being turned upside down well. It also seems reasonable that your son is acting out and saying things to you because he's upset and doesn't know how to handle it.

 

I agree with what someone else said.. counseling for all of you might help. But figuring out how to have a civil relationship with your ex is the best place for you to start. It won't be easy, but if you can get along with your ex then a lot of these issues will subside. Your child should be coming first in your life right now. Make him your priority. Ask to see him more often. Maybe lay off on having the gf around every time he visits (if that is what you are doing). It could be too much for him to handle right now and if it is, then you need to make a decision about what is more important for you in this moment... to have a gf, or to be a father to your child. It's going to take time for you ALL to adjust to the new changes.

[BlueIris]

How long have you been divorced? Is this recent? How long did you wait after you split up with your son's mother before you introduced your gf to him?

 

I ask because your son could easily be acting out in this manner simply because he equates you leaving to you being with someone new at the same time. He could be upset about the changes in his routine or the fact that the rules are different in both homes or simply because you have someone new in your life and don't see him as often as you used to.

 

Your ex probably has said some inappropriate things to your child. You hurt her and then left her to take care of your child alone most of the time. I'm sure there is more to that story, but those are the details that you shared. Sadly, this is what OFTEN happens when families split up and Mom has custody the majority of the time. Your ex shouldn't be badmouthing you to your child, that's a major no-no, but given the details you shared... it seems reasonable that she's hurting and not dealing with the reality of her life being turned upside down well. It also seems reasonable that your son is acting out and saying things to you because he's upset and doesn't know how to handle it.

 

I agree with what someone else said.. counseling for all of you might help. But figuring out how to have a civil relationship with your ex is the best place for you to start. It won't be easy, but if you can get along with your ex then a lot of these issues will subside. Your child should be coming first in your life right now. Make him your priority. Ask to see him more often. Maybe lay off on having the gf around every time he visits (if that is what you are doing). It could be too much for him to handle right now and if it is, then you need to make a decision about what is more important for you in this moment... to have a gf, or to be a father to your child. It's going to take time for you ALL to adjust to the new changes.

 

I agree with this. Keep your GF out of your time and conversation with your child.

 

Understand why your ex might be upset. Maybe read the infidelity and divorce sections here and see how often people assume infidelity is the cause of a divorce and how much pain they are in- whether they're men or women.

[Toodaloo]

I am just going to add that perhaps spending time with your son and girlfriend away from your home when they are together. So make it trips out to somewhere. Keep your home as a safe place for him to talk to you. Make sure you have time together that is just you guys. Even if its flopped on the sofa watching a DVD.

 

Keep telling him you love him. Do not ever bad mouth his mother to him but perhaps explain that she is very hurt right now but you are not able to do anything about that. Reinforce that you met your girlfriend after the divorce.

 

Be cool calm, supportive and above all make sure your son knows he is top priority but that you are going to be moving on with another partner that is not his mother. If you allow him to split you up from this woman then you will be creating all merry hell for later.

[minimariah]

It's gut wrenching - because I was so involved in his life - until all of this happens.

 

then why did you wait so long to react & take some serious action? forget about getting a full custody - it will completely ruin your already strained relationship with your son because it will confirm the "bad dad trying to hurt my mum and get his new GF as a substitute" story he already has in his mind.

 

2 things - spend time with your son ALONE, no GF. just you and him, she can't be anyhwere near because you want to repair that relationship with him 1st and show him that you're not "picking" her over him. when your relationship with the child gets better - THEN try to bring your GF around more, start with lunches & walks and then spending all days together. it's not a bad idea to spend time with both him & his mother just to show him that you're not hating her or trying to hurt her but that might backfire in terms of your ex thinking you're trying to get back together so... and 2nd thing... find a good counselor specialized for situations like these, communicate, be patient & nice to your ex, tell her how you didn't mean to hurt her and how important it is for you two to get along and for her to NOT confuse the child any longer. all three of you as a family need to see a counselor and learn how to work together.

 

learn how to communicate with your ex. i have a feeling that you're not communicating with her at all, you didn't mention any kind of confrontation with her. did you talk to her about everything, did you ask her why was she doing it, did you explain to her how much it hurts your son and that she won't get you back by doing that stuff? if you did - what did she say?

Edited April 30, 2015 by minimariah

[nastyex22]

Yes, I have spoken to my ex about this. She is just angry because I think she wants to get back together.

 

 

She hates my GF. And unfortunately, I had told her at one point that we had broken up. So she thought there was a chance --

 

 

We had actually broken up because I was too nice to my ex wife and my GF was getting jealous. I had given her money when she needed extra and I had been friends with her -- and my GF could tell my ex wife was after more than friendship.

 

 

In the end, my GF was right. My ex wife invited me to dinner with our son and I went - and after our son fell asleep she asked me to sit down, poured me some wine and tried kissing me.

 

 

At that time - I told my ex -- I'm sorry -- but I'm just not capable of doing this right now. I need time...and I can't make any promises to you -- about a reunion....I told her that my break up was still very fresh.

 

 

She said she would be patient....and then I ended up getting back together with my GF.

 

 

So most of this is jealously from my ex wife. And truthfully, there have been times where I wonder if I should reunite for our son. The damage that is happening to him is awful - because of his mother's venom. But, I love my girlfriend and I am planning to propose to her .. I just don't know how to handle my son AND my ex. Who is just so spiteful.

[GoBlue]

I just feel like such an outsider. I feel as if my interaction with our son only upsets him - because of all of this. Maybe he's better without me.

 

Please do not ever say anything like that to your ex-wife or in the presence of your son. First of all, it isn't true - your son may not be happy with the choices you have made but he definitely needs you in his life. It is also equally true that if his mother is actually doing what you say she is doing, then it is unhealthy and it needs to be addressed. Your son should never be used as a bartering chip or as a battering ram between the two of you. Although you cannot control what she does, these things can be brought to court and/or to mediation. There is a great book that I highly recommend called Co-Parenting Works! Working Together to Help Your Children Thrive by Tammy Daughtry. She deals with this issue from every angle - especially helpful is how she talks about what to do when your co-parent isn't cooperating in the process.

 

Look - there is no way around it - divorce affects children in very real and deep ways. It is not easy on them and to expect your son to just accept your new girlfriend as though it doesn't hurt is fantasy (even if she is nice to him). His world has been turned upside down and there is nothing he can do about it. You need to be sensitive to this fact. Have you considered seeing a counselor, someone who specializes in family therapy, who can help you navigate this with your son? The last thing he needs, no matter what, is for you to abandon him.

 

Remember, your wife was not the only person "blindsided" by this divorce. Your son needs time and he needs unconditional love from his father. There can be a fear in his heart that says if you were willing to leave his mom you may be willing to leave him as well. He may even have to deal with feelings of guilt like he was somehow to blame for your divorce. These fears need to be relieved by your purposeful involvement in his life. He may not like the choices you have made but he still loves you. Please show him that you love him too. If you would like some practical information I know about some articles that I can refer you to. Send me a private message. In the mean-time, please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.

[smackie9]

Document this and take her to court and get full custody. This manipulation she is doing to your son is abusive.

 

Next you need to discipline your son by having a "talk" about how he is a child and is not allowed to be involved in adult things, like who you are dating or touching your phone. Also correct him about what his mother has asked him to do, and explain why it is not proper to do those things. If he goes for your phone you send him to his room for a time out. Remember your son is very confused because like most kids they want their parents back together so counseling or a therapist may be required.

[minimariah]

We had actually broken up because I was too nice to my ex wife and my GF was getting jealous. I had given her money when she needed extra and I had been friends with her -- and my GF could tell my ex wife was after more than friendship.

 

sit down with your GF and explain to her the importance of having a good relationship & good friendship with your xW for the sake of your son; explain to her just how unnecessary her jealousy is even if the xW wants something more than friendship because as long as you don't - it is not a threat to your relationship. you're not just dealing with the jealous xW, you're dealing with the jealous GF who can't handle the situation without being insecure & feeling threatened.

 

sit down with your xW and tell her what you want from her, that you want FRIENDSHIP & friendship only and that there isn't a chance of you two getting back together - stop playing with her feelings, learn how to develop a real friendship and communication with BOUNDARIES with your xW. start being honest with her!

 

So most of this is jealously from my ex wife.

 

it definitely seems like there is more to the story, but we only have what you're giving us. like i said, learn how to communicate with your xW without giving her some kind of false hopes and set up boundaries in your relationship. be clear with her that you won't get back to her even if you & your GF don't make it.

 

The damage that is happening to him is awful - because of his mother's venom.

 

it's not just his mother's venom that's damaging him, take responsibility for your own actions - it's also you not reacting and treating your family like some kind of ongoing problem that needs to be solved. why didn't you seek counseling as soon as you figured out what's going on? why didn't you remove the GF from your moments with your son when you saw how badly he responds to her?

 

seek counseling, be smart and patient about this.

 

But, I love my girlfriend and I am planning to propose to her.

 

no, don't propose to her. dude... you have a son who is going through some serious isuess, can you focus on that for a minute? why is your kid not your top priority? you proposing to your GF will only make your xW angrier & your son even more confused. you're moving too quickly, you're not thinking about your child at all. proposal at this moment? bad idea. you can wait a little longer, your child trying to adapt to this new situation is far more important than getting a piece of paper.

 

seek professional counseling ASAP. it would be great if all three of you could go to some kind of family counseling in order to learn how to work together. spend as much time as you can with your child without the GF around and then slowly let him get used to her, slowly let the two of them build a relationship... don't force that on him. learn how to be honest and straightforward with your W, know what you want, express it & stick to it. be clear with your xW that the GF isn't going anywhere and that she'll have to accept her. be clear with the GF that she will have to accept your xW and you trying to work on that relationship; there is no room for jealousy.

 

DO NOT seek full custody; you probably won't get one + you can kiss your relationship with your son goodbye. don't take any sudden and radical action, seek professional advice, counseling... rebounding with your child & trying to communicate with the xW - these should be your top priorities and your GF needs to understand that. you also need to understand how hard this entire situation is on your kid - with or without his mother's venom.

Edited April 30, 2015 by minimariah

[nastyex22]

That's the thing ...

 

 

My son loves being with my GF -- after he gets past the anger already in his head from my ex. He rolls his eyes and is disrespectful to her when he gets in the car -- or starts crying when he sees that she's there....

 

 

But once he gets past this and I talk to him -- he goes back to the son I know! He is warm and happy -- laughing around her. Loves playing with her...he's great!

 

 

It's just the transitions - And honestly he's better when we are all hanging out with her kids etc..then he is just with me. He seems to focus (when alone on me) on the fact that we are alone --without his mom and he starts to get upset.

 

 

It truly is easier and HAPPIER when we are all together on the weekends -- he has a blast and even asks her kids when they can all hang out again...

 

 

But then he goes home -- gets scolded about having fun with them and he swings back into an angry place.

 

 

Literally -- last weekend -- we were all together and he told me he didn't want to go home -- kept asking if she could go do things with us ....like mini golfing etc. So, I KNOW he likes her and our times together...

[lollipopspot]

And honestly he's better when we are all hanging out with her kids etc..then he is just with me. He seems to focus (when alone on me) on the fact that we are alone --without his mom and he starts to get upset...

 

Literally -- last weekend -- we were all together and he told me he didn't want to go home -- kept asking if she could go do things with us ....like mini golfing etc. So, I KNOW he likes her and our times together...

 

I think you are in a lot of denial. This is not all about your wife. Unless he's an alien, he will feel that you have replaced the family with your girlfriend and her kids, and is jealous of those kids. You are blaming everything on your wife but honestly you seem clueless as to your own contribution to the situation. Your wife was "blindsided" by the divorce, your son was too...then you created expectations that you would get back together...and you're just blithely going along acting as though you've had little to do with all of this upheaval.

[nastyex22]

Not true, I realize my part in this.

 

 

But - I am trying to figure out how to fix it -- to the best of my abilities.

 

 

I will set boundaries for my ex wife and let her know that I'm going to marry my GF. And I will let her know that I would llike to work with her regarding our son -- and his care.

 

 

But, part of the reason I have been so nice to my ex and left my GF out of conversations (misleading ..I now see...) is because it's the best way to get her to act normal. I hate this anger and venom she has...and what it does to our son.

[O'Malley]

How long have you been divorced? I can't imagine getting remarried before at least 4-5 years have went by, and that's in a healthy situation where you and your ex had amicable relations and your child wasn't experiencing such stress. Your girlfriend is getting jealous. It sounds like too much, too soon.

 

Counseling for your son and you is the priority here. Sorry to say it, but I think the stress he's experiencing is from both his parents' actions: his mother's anger and your expectation that he accept your girlfriend and her kids as an instant family. You might not say these things about your ex or your girlfriend but your son likely can pick up on your feelings.

[smackie9]

well it sounds like you need to just keep talking this out with him....and address his behavior, and set boundaries. TBH kids really need this because they will respect you for it in the end.

[BlackOpsZombieGirl]

Document this and take her to court and get full custody. This manipulation she is doing to your son is abusive.

 

.

 

 

I haven't read through your entire thread, but this is what I advise that you do:

 

You need to PROVE to the court that what your ex-wife is doing to your son IS abusive, manipulative and potentially permanently emotionally damaging to your CHILD. Get the Department of Children and Families involved. They will schedule a random home visit with your wife and will interview her AND your son SEPARATELY. They know the right questions to ask your son (and your wife) and when they find out from your son ALL of the manipulative, inappropriate and emotionally DAMAGING things she has told your son about your private life and what she has told him to do with regard to spying on your phone and such, they will submit their findings and conclusions to the court and a hearing will be scheduled.

 

How DARE she put your poor son THROUGH ALL of HER ISSUES regarding the divorce??? Even if her EMOTIONAL ABUSE of your son stops right NOW, the damage SHE has caused him mentally AND emotionally could affect him PERMANENTLY. The way he perceives you (as the 'bad guy' who CAUSED the divorce and broke his mom's HEART), the way he perceives your new GF and the way he THINKS he FITS into this entire equation has been ADVERSELY AFFECTED - by the parent who's supposed to LOVE HIM and PROTECT HIM from ALL harm: his OWN MOTHER.

 

I actually think you're acting way more calmer than you should be! If I were you, I'd be absolutely LIVID and HORRIFIED at what your ex-wife has DONE (so far) to your son's emotional, spiritual and mental WELL-BEING!

 

So, what are YOU going to do about this situation so that she does NOT HARM your son ANY further????:confused:

 

 

.

[minimariah]

It's just the transitions - And honestly he's better when we are all hanging out with her kids etc..then he is just with me. He seems to focus (when alone on me) on the fact that we are alone --without his mom and he starts to get upset.

 

this has nothing to do with his mom, it has everything to do with you not building any kind of relationship with him. the fact that he likes being around your GF & her children could simply mean that he misses his family unit and he enjoys being a part of one - even if it's for one afternoon. after that - he probably feels like he is betraying his mother when he gets home and these feelings would probably still be there, even if your xW was super nice & reasonable.

 

why aren't you comfortable being alone with your child? you're literally running away from him because it's too much of a hassle for you to deal with a child who isn't happy and smiles all the time - it seems like it. it seems like you're literally avoiding him instead of spending the time with him ALONE because that's where the problem is. he needs to rebuild his relationship with YOU, not your GF & her kids. he needs to spend time with you alone, as much as possible and he needs to learn how to trust you. you're basically avoiding the problem & sweeping it under the rug by bringing more people around him. why?

 

But, part of the reason I have been so nice to my ex and left my GF out of conversations (misleading ..I now see...) is because it's the best way to get her to act normal...

 

you didn't mislead your xW because you were nice to her and because you kept your GF out of the conversations. you mislead her because you straight up told her that you might go back to her & that there is a chance of reconciliation. it's like you're STILL confused.

 

you can continue to be nice to your xW & exclude the GF out of the conversations (why would your xW even discuss your GF in the first place)? also, check your girlfriend. don't let her jealousy ruin your potentionally good and friendly relationship with your xW.

 

and i really don't understand the marriage rush... it's just a ceremony and a piece of paper. your kid is having trouble adapting now, how could you possibly think that dropping another bomb like marriage on him would be a good idea? this marriage can wait some better times, can it not?

 

BOTH you and your xW are confusing the hell out of this boy, i recommend seeking professional opinion & counseling ASAP (and by ASAP, i mean TOMORROW). make some serious moves, call your xW IMMEDIATELY and let her know that you're willing to take her to the court if she doesn't improve her behavior (this kind of threat might actually work far better than you think). give her one last chance to fix her behavior, tell her that, let her know how determined and serious you are. communicate, communicate and communicate some more with your child, let him know that you DID NOT ABANDON him, that you did not pick GF & her kids over him and that you'll do anything to make him happy. take some serious action until the xW trully damages him beyond the repair.

 

be smart and patient about it. if you come at the xW the wrong way... the child won't take your side, let me tell you that. you'll only "prove" everything his mother told him... so be CAREFUL and smart. think it all through.

Edited April 30, 2015 by minimariah

[loveboid]

I would use this as a challenge to build a closer relationship with your child. Sometimes adversity brings out our best. This situation could reveal to you how strong you are and that you're a better father than you thought.

 

Make sure to play with your son a lot. Playing is reassuring to kids. Also give him advice even if he appears not to be listening--he is listening intently. Kids remember everything parents say.

[SycamoreCircle]

You're spinning this story.

 

It's like someone telling you they're not a killer. Meanwhile, there's a bloody knife in their hand, a dead body on the ground, a life insurance policy, etc.

 

You have a poor sense of boundaries. Own up to your part in this. How long did you wait before forcing your new GF and her kids on your child? That is a lot for a child to handle. You didn't even appropriately cut ties with your ex.

 

You say this new woman being in the mix is just a circumstance of the situation. You chose that circumstance. What, you couldn't wait one year before getting involved with someone? You were too lonely, too vulnerable? This new woman is all that?

 

To me it just sounds like a lot of poor decisions, selfishness, lousy parenting, and as someone else said...denial.