ISO people who did the work and saved the marriage (or not)

[bluemood]

Hi,

 

I am hoping to connect with people who came within a hair's breadth of getting divorced, but did all the work necessary to save the relationship. I'm curious to hear what your process was, how you made it through the hardest part, got over the anger and resentment, found a way to love again, and how it feels on the other side to still be with someone who put you through so much. Or, if you did the work, but still decided that divorce was the only path forward. What was your experience?

 

The significant details of my story (hoping yours will be somewhat similar) are that we have been together for about 14 years, married for 7. We have 2 kids ages 4.5 and 7.

 

I left my career to be a stay at home mom.

He has a very demanding job.

Our relationship wasn't great before kids. It got worse after kids.

 

I started individual counseling when our oldest was about a year old. Took a break from counseling after the second child was born. Went back a year later. All the while, I'd ask my husband to go to couples counseling with me, and he'd always refuse.

 

Do I need to elaborate on why our marriage wasn't good? I suppose I could abbreviate the story by saying that we were both in a bad place (me, because of being, in effect, a single mom.. he, because work stretched him too thin and he had no work-life balance... and a thousand other things like emotional abuse, abandonment, neglect, inability to communicate, etc etc from before having kids).

 

Then, about a year ago, I accidentally "fell in love" with someone else, and it made me realize just how ****ty my marriage had gotten. I checked out of the marriage emotionally, and only then did my husband wake up and realize that he needed to make some significant changes.

 

He finally agreed to marriage counseling. We have been going for about 9 months, and now he will actually admit that it is helping him, and can finally see how my many years of therapy changed me, and our relationship, for the better. He acknowledges, finally, how much effort I put into improving our relationship, even before I met this other guy. He has made a lot of changes. He started individual counseling, too. He wakes up in the morning to make breakfast for the kids, he gets home in time from work to brush the kids teeth and once in a while early enough to cook dinner for all of us, he does the dishes instead of complaining about how there are always dirty dishes (even if he wasn't the one who used them)... instead of coming home and immediately getting back on his computer, he greets us and asks if he can help with anything. we go on regular date nights. he surprises me with gifts and flowers and chocolates. He has made a great effort to be the man I need and have always wanted him to be.

 

(queue **** talking - sorry, can't help myself)

 

The problem, though, is that he wasn't that man for the previous 13 years of our relationship or the first 6 years of our kids' lives. I was alone, struggling, and feeling abused. Now I resent his changes, because he actually IS being a good husband and he IS being a better father... why couldn't it have always been that way? Why was my emotional detachment the only thing that caused him to act the way I had always wanted him to? If I reattach, emotionally, will he go away again? How could I dare leave him now, now that he is being so good? Why can't I accept the help he offers now, instead of just resenting that it wasn't there before?

 

Who am I to leave this man, who is doing the work, who wants me in his life, who wants to be a good dad to his kids, who wants to be a good husband.... so what if he slept on the couch of his own free will for 13 years, making me feel ugly, unwanted, and rejected. So what if he would call at 6pm to say he was leaving work and not show up until 2am with no account for where he'd been, and i'm sick and have two screaming children who wouldn't go to bed. So what if my life has been **** for 13 years, because now he has decided to show up. Now that I am ready to leave.

 

Now the fate of our relationship is up to me, it's on ME to forgive HIM. I'M the one who fell in love with someone else, so I'M the one who ruined the marriage, and none of my suffering matters now because of that. AND he is an amazing provider, he is an attractive man, so why on earth would I ever leave a man who has so many redeeming qualities? What kind of person does that make me?

 

So right now, I'm at a crossroads. Both of my therapists tell me that if we keep on working on our relationship, it'll get better. That at some point I will fall back in love with my husband. (They use two analogies - one is that you have a bunch of emotional cups, and all my cups were totally empty for a LONG time, and now they are getting filled back up. the idea is that once they are reasonably full, meaning my basic needs like eating, sleeping, companionship, time without the kids, etc are met, I'll have bandwidth to process the deeper issues going on and be able to feel love again...

 

while many of the cups are now mostly full and have been for a few months (meaning he has been consistent with the changes he has made), i still am no where near feeling love for my husband. at best, i feel we are friends with benefits (when drunk)...

 

the other analogy is that i've been in an emotional drought. there is just hard packed dirt. when he starts to show up in the relationship, it's like a deluge and the water just rolls off. it takes a slow, steady rain before the soil will soften. and then it takes even longer before the flowers (love?) begin to grow again. i'd say at this point the soil is softened and i'm hopeful albeit doubtful that the seeds will grow)

 

I feel like I am making a choice between what is right for the family, (ie staying in the marriage - but let's not start the "what's best for the kids are happy parents" conversation, because the goal is not happiness, is it? isn't it stability for the children? to hurt as few people as possible?) and my own selfish desire to feel happy.

 

fwiw, I didn't have a physical relationship with the other guy, we hugged once or twice, but there was a very deep connection that we prolonged, off and on, via text and email over the last year.

 

This is where you come in. Tell me - is it really possible? Did it happen to you? Were you able to see past the anger and resentment? Were you able to forget about being in love? being happy?

 

(I mean, can you go on in the relationship without love and happiness and just stop chasing the dream of having those things? Everything else is fine, I can find happiness in other ways like with the kids and snuggling the dog, so can the relationship continue even if I don't feel love and that particular kind of happiness towards my husband?)

 

did the happiness and love come back in your relationship? what if it was never there in the first place? can it be cultivated from this point, for the sake of the children, and the life that has been built (homes, cars, furniture, traditions..)? arranged marriages work out, right? isn't this kind of similar? if i can't love him, whose to say i could love anyone at all?

 

Please tell me your experience, whether you're the husband or the wife, I want to hear about the aftermath, please. What worked for you and what didn't. I'm trying to figure out if I am prolonging the inevitable or doing the right thing by being patient and continuing with the work of improving the existing relationship.

 

Thanks for reading.

[No Limit]

Arranged marriages work out because usually the spouses both have a secret partner on the side to distract them. They're roommates; and frankly you shouldn't measure your marriage with an arranged one.

[Movingforward2]

I appreciate you posting this. My situation is much like yours as I am that man now. Was with my XW for 11 years, married for 7 with 2 kids.....yada yada. Everything you just posted, I can now see that she probably feels that way.

 

I think she asks herself the question constantly "why couldn't he have been this way before"? And the answer is pretty simple. I was very comfortable. I never had to do anything extra, because I was so used to doing what I wanted all the time. She told me I never made her feel #1, and I never understood that....and now I do. But for my marriage, and that relationship....it's too late. It doesn't matter for me personally now that I can do all of those things your husband does now. I get it now. What's important....not your job, not money, not any of the bull that everyone is sold on believing. My XW and my girls meant everything to me, and I lost them. I've been divorced a little over a year, and I did everything I could to change....and it was for both her and myself. I'm a much better person, and would be a much better partner. But all of the pain, resentment, and bitterness.......she will not let it go.

 

Like you, she met someone and told me about it. Whether it was physical or not, at this point I really don't care, but understand it now. She claims it was an emotional affair, but who really knows......I can forgive and forget pretty easily......she can't. I'm not women can do that. Men can just take the bitching and get so used to it, it's like it doesn't matter...get up the next day and keep pushing. Women hold it in, until they go to counseling....or some other man sells them on "your husband doesn't treat you right"....or "I'm in that same situation".....or whatever. In my case, I know that some guy probably told her all of these things and she just snapped at some point thinking it's better on the other side - and literally walked away. For nothing. It's almost 2 years later, and neither one of us has really moved on to someone else. Yeah, I've dated around.....but it's terrible. I enjoy the companionship, but really want nothing to do with any type of relationship because I'm not at that point.

 

In your situation, I would tell you that he really didn't "get it" until he absolutely had to. I would encourage you to forgive him. You obviously care about him and your children or you wouldn't be asking these questions. Instead of focusing on what went wrong in the past.......you could be the happiest woman on the planet and live for the future. You can't change what happened, and neither can he...but as the guy that was your husband, I would ask you to give him the benefit of the doubt. If the guy is making that sincere of an effort to be the person you wanted, and you have it now.......why would you not give him the 2nd chance?

 

I'm just telling you.......it's not better on the other side. Even though I feel like I never got that chance and "get it" now.....I do know that things would be different a 2nd time. Even with someone new, I will understand it so much more. No one will ever care about you or your kids more than that guy......and it's not worth throwing it away to start over. Keep your focus on your great future.....don't look back.....you aren't going that way. Keep the lines of communication open and clear.

 

Again, this is from my situation.......which is a lot of parallels to yours.

[Castlemate]

The emotional affair is what has made things complicated. Even though nothing physical happened, the OM filled a void. He appreciated you and made you feel alive. Now that your husband is doing the same, you can't accept it. 1. Because of the way he treated you and 2) he's not the other man.

 

Is it possible for the love to come back? I'm not sure if the love was ever lost. Anger and resentment make it difficult to see anything positive in a relationship. They're toxic emotions that if not recognized and manage, pollute the love in a relationship.

 

Ask yourself, if the OM never existed in your life and your husband suddenly made changes to improve your marriage would you still be so resistant .

[bluemood]

I know, No Limit... I was being hyperbolic. I don't actually think my situation is anything like an arranged marriage. I was using that to paint the picture that it feels that way because there has been a lack of love for so long, yet I'm still in the marriage. That's the only real parallel that can be drawn.

[Esraem]

I wish my wife would see this post. We are going through the samething but the OM is there still sending money and whatnot. It also is an emotional affair. I got the divorce papers delivered yesterday and I am still not ready to let go. I want like your husband to be better, so the progress and to refill cups that have gone empty again. I would say why not try. It may take time, the flowers may not seem to be coming up, but they are still growing.

[bluemood]

Thank you, Movingforward2, for sharing your experience.

 

I have to say that I completely agree with that feeling that I was not my husband's #1. I would even tell him that I thought his ranking system went like this: Work, him, the cat, work, me. And once the kids came along, they squeezed themselves in between the second work and me. So we were all down at the bottom of the totem pole. Knowing that I felt that way didn't change any of his habits or behaviors.

 

It sounds like you made as much effort to change as my husband is. It's a hard road. I'm glad you feel better for having done it.

 

You said, "all of the pain, resentment, and bitterness... she will not let it go"...

There was a session where I said to our counselor that I felt bad because I didn't feel like I could forgive my husband for all the pain he put me through. My counselor said, "Why do you think you need to forgive him?" and i just kind of blinked at him. Like, isn't that the solution? If I could just forgive then we can get over this and move on.

 

He explained that it isn't so much about forgiveness... the key is to process the feelings. To do that, I have to keep talking about what hurts, and my husband has to listen and respond until *I* feel like HE gets it. It won't stop hurting until I feel HEARD. I swear, I have repeated the same hurts so many times and they still hurt and I don't understand why, but I think each time we get a little closer to my husband understanding what he put me through. I understand myself a little bit better.

 

I'll put the question back out to the group - has someone else done this same exercise and gotten to that point where they feel fully heard? Was that enough to save your marriage?

 

I am very wary of the grass being greener. I feel a bit lucky that my OM was actually the biggest champion for my husband and encouraged me to stay in the marriage and work things out and keep the family whole. He encouraged me to do the work, and said that my feelings for him are just fantasy, that I want to be with who I think he is, not who he really is. I'm sure there is a lot of truth in that, but it is still difficult to accept. The kind of happiness I felt when he was around is like nothing I'd ever experienced before. I was so high... My husband even said that maybe that was the first time in my life I had ever really felt happy. He could be right. It's really hard to put the strength of that high against the "grass is always greener" mentality. It IS greener, it really is! But I've come down off the high now, and I really miss it. I miss feeling happy. I miss feeling in love. Meeting the OM made me realize what I had been lacking in my marriage for so long (love and happiness), and made me question if this life that we have built together is worth it without love and without happiness.

 

So my mission right now is to work through all the hurt to see if there is any possibility to feel that kind of happiness and love towards my husband, for the sake of all we have built together and for the children. But I still just... have this itching feeling that it'll be a lot of work and I'll end up in the same place... wanting to be free. and i feel bad thinking about how much time it will take to work through the pain, and how much of both of our lives will slip by while we go through this process...

 

You said, "If the guy is making that sincere of an effort to be the person you wanted, and you have it now.......why would you not give him the 2nd chance? ".... I agree, I ask myself that all the time. I guess I'm looking for someone who is in my shoes who understands exactly why that is so much easier said than done. I just want to feel happy. I look at my husband and all I see is the anger and pain and resentment. I look at OM and I see happy. Staying with my husband is like self punishment at this point. But I have to, because there are kids. And everyone keeps saying that in the end, I'll be better for it. That I need to work through my issues one way or another, so might as well do it within the relationship. Easier for the kids that way. ... the other part of it is that I don't yet trust that he will keep showing up. That's part of the emotional abuse cycle. He shows up for a couple days, just long enough for me to think things will be better, and then he disappears and leaves me reeling. This time IS different, he has been consistently "here" for many months in a row, but that feeling of "ok, the end HAS to be coming up soon" is still there. I still don't fully trust it. So for that, I think it just takes time and patience. Guess I'm losing my patience.

 

Thanks, again, for your reply, and kind words of encouragement at the end.

[bluemood]

 

Ask yourself, if the OM never existed in your life and your husband suddenly made changes to improve your marriage would you still be so resistant .

 

 

This is really tricky, Castlemate, because then I would also have to assume that my husband would have "woken up" without me emotionally checking out of our marriage. I can assume that I would have anyway, we were on that path already. I actually think that meeting the OM is the only thing that has, to this point, saved our marriage. He woke us both up, and it prompted us both to do the work...

 

So, to imagine that my husband just figured it out on his own... I don't know. I think I still would have been "done" with the relationship. I think I already was, I just didn't understand why I was done. I didn't, I still don't, understand why I stayed so long in such a bad relationship. Why I allowed him to treat me the way he did for so long, over and over again. Why I never stood up for myself.

 

Meeting the OM gave me the courage to talk about all the things I needed and wasn't getting. My husband has (er, had... couples counseling has helped him to stop doing this) a sneaky way of making me feel like my feelings aren't important. So if I were to express unhappiness about something, he'd sort of talk me out of it, and then I'd feel manipulated but that he was right and then I'd feel bad for feeling manipulated... Anyway, the point is, meeting the OM made it possible for me to call BS on that cycle and stop it before it starts. So instead of "I'm upset that you didn't eat the meal I cooked" "well, it was gross" "oh, right, of course, sorry"... the conversation is now "I'm upset that you didn't eat the meal I cooked" "well, it was gross" "what? no it wasn't. I ate it, and the kids liked it. we all thought it was good. it hurts my feelings that you thought it was gross. what didn't you like about it?" (on a side note, I used to not even be able to tell him that it made me upset that he didn't eat what i cooked, i'd just walk around quiet and pissed off, which only made him feel like **** because he had no idea what he did to make me upset... another side note, now he just eats whatever i cook and has done a lot of work to not be so critical all the time...thats a work in progress, but it has gotten a lot better)

 

Sorry, I'm a little off track. I just don't think there is any way I can honestly answer your question. I'd be in the same position I'm in now. It's always been about me and my husband. I never wanted to leave my husband ONLY to go be with the OM. The OM just shined light on the problems that were already there. I DO want to be happy. And the OM does make me feel happy. It's a bit of a gray area, then, about whether, at this point, I'd be leaving the relationship to seek out the greener grass or just to be free of the pain.

 

(fwiw, the OM is dating and has said that he would never be in a relationship with me ever, so it still isn't like I'd be leaving my husband for another man. I'm still just trying to do what is right for me, so that I can be happy. I hope that eventually that means I can be in a healthy, happy, loving relationship. I need to stay in this marriage and do the work to be able to achieve the 'healthy' part. i'm hopeful but skeptical that the 'happy' and 'loving' parts are a biproduct of that work.)

 

Does that kinda answer your question?

Thanks for posing the idea. it was interesting to think through that.

[MajorOak]

[Then, about a year ago, I accidentally "fell in love" with someone else, and it made me realize just how ****ty]

 

 

This might be the first step of your recovery, excepting it was no accident you actually had a choice.

 

 

Good luck

[bluemood]

[Then, about a year ago, I accidentally "fell in love" with someone else, and it made me realize just how ****ty]

 

 

This might be the first step of your recovery, excepting it was no accident you actually had a choice.

 

 

Good luck

 

You're suggesting that I chose to fall in love with the OM?

 

Hmm, I dunno. I mean, I understand what you're saying. It was my choice to talk to him after the initial "love at first sight" moment. But I didn't choose for him to, literally, ring my doorbell and show up that day. I didn't choose to feel the way I did in that moment. The choice I made was to examine what that feeling was, to explore that feeling, and understand what happened in that moment.

 

I'm not sure people get to choose if, when, or how they fall in love. The choice is what you do after that moment, right? And I think I've been very conservative with my choices after that moment. Instead of immediately leaving my husband, I stayed to talk about what was going on, to explore every avenue to make things better. I feel like I've made mostly good choices, in the face of the difficult things that are out of my control.

 

In a way, telling me that it was my choice to fall in love with someone else makes it seem like my husband did no wrong. Like it's my fault that the relationship isn't working. But think about WHY I was open to falling in love at that moment. It's because my existing relationship wasn't good. It's not like I was on tinder looking for ways to screw around. I had no thoughts of other men (aside from like benign crushes on the guy at the coffee shop or something innocent like that) at all since I'd met my husband.. until that one day. I didn't choose for my husband to mistreat me and neglect me for over a decade. (or maybe I did, because I didn't put a stop to it sooner?)

 

What I chose (in talking to the OM) was happiness. What I continue to strive for is happiness. The choices I make are all with the intent to be happy (with as little negative impact on my kids as possible). And I am still no closer to knowing whether or not to stay or go, because there is little evidence that I will find that same intense level of happiness within my marriage that I felt during those weeks I spent talking to the OM...but I know that staying is the "right" thing to do...

[Yasuandio]

What has your husband shared about his life during the troubled period, when he was apparently satisfied without your company and sleeping on the couch for over a decade?

 

While you suffering the abuse of his emotional and physical withdrawal, what was he doing to quench his normal human needs and desires for "companionship?"

 

When I apply my common sense to this issue, that seems to be a large missing piece of the puzzle. Of course, that's just my take. Yas

[bluemood]

When I apply my common sense to this issue, that seems to be a large missing piece of the puzzle. Of course, that's just my take. Yas

 

I thought he was cheating on me the whole time. That's just what guys do, right? That's what all my previous boyfriends did. So I accepted it and didn't bother trying to talk about it. I already thought he wasn't interested in me (I mean sexually attracted to me) because of the couch sleeping, so it made sense to me that he'd be sleeping with other women.

 

As it turns out, when we met, I had a very innocent persona, and he didn't want to tarnish it. So he kept his distance, thinking it was what I wanted (we discovered this through a number of marriage counseling sessions), when I really wanted the exact opposite but was too embarrassed and ashamed to say so.

 

He swears that he has never cheated on me (except for that one time just after we met but before we were officially dating so technically that isn't supposed to count, but believe me, I've brought that up plenty of times because it hurts just the same). Something about the way he says it makes me think he is being honest. We've talked about it a few times in couples counseling. I think if he were lying, the therapist would be able to draw it out of him. Anyway, at this point, what good would it do to lie? The marriage is already held together by nothing more than a piece of floss... A little affair isn't going to make it or break it at this point.

 

And we did have sex once in a while (and two kids). But I suppose his 'needs' were not ever being adequately met. That contributed to his being an a**hole all the time. Suffice to say, we are also working through our sex issues. It is hard to want to have sex with someone that you associate with emotional pain. Women need to feel emotionally connected and safe in order to want and enjoy sex. I don't feel that way towards him right now. The whole process is hard.

 

I keep hoping to hear from more people who have gone through this, less about analyzing my situation and offering advice... not that I don't appreciate it, but what I need is something more like a support group, someone to tell me they made it through and things really did get better and this process isn't a waste of time and that the love I feel toward the OM will dissipate and I'll be able to feel it, or something similar, for my husband... Maybe I posted to the wrong group for that

[bluemood]

Yas, I skimmed through the stuff that's on the link in your SIG. My husband was totally gaslighting me for years. It is so infuriating to have that happen. I didn't know it had a name until I was telling my friend a story about something that had happened earlier in the week, and she said "it sounds like he's gaslighting you". I looked up the meaning and realized that most of our arguments included him gaslighting me in some way.

 

That has, thankfully, stopped now. And if he were to do it now, I'm now strong enough to call him out on it while at the same time understand that he only does that when he is feeling depressed or angry about something and we need to talk it through instead of let him be a prick.

 

Interesting that it's in your list of resources! I didn't think it was so common.

[Yasuandio]

Yas, I skimmed through the stuff that's on the link in your SIG. My husband was totally gaslighting me for years. It is so infuriating to have that happen. I didn't know it had a name until I was telling my friend a story about something that had happened earlier in the week, and she said "it sounds like he's gaslighting you". I looked up the meaning and realized that most of our arguments included him gaslighting me in some way.

 

That has, thankfully, stopped now. And if he were to do it now, I'm now strong enough to call him out on it while at the same time understand that he only does that when he is feeling depressed or angry about something and we need to talk it through instead of let him be a prick.

 

Interesting that it's in your list of resources! I didn't think it was so common.

 

Honey,

 

I'm not sure I would say "Gaslighting Proper" is common. What might be slightly more common is for cheaters and liars to use gaslighting techniques (such as "deny, deny, deny) to cover their tracks. Now, if you are looking at dead on evidence, and a person is telling you that the evidence is NOT there (that you are imaging it), then, we are talking about serious gaslighting - or "Gaslighting Proper."

 

According to my research, "Gaslighting Proper" is sick and sadistic. Like a scary movie. The goal is to confuse you, cause you to doubt yourself, sometimes to become paranoid. Ultimately, gaslighting might not only tear down your self esteem and confidence, but can and does cause "crazy-making," and, depending on the degree, can drive you mad, if done upon you long enough.

 

Of course, there are variables of gaslighting. But is a terrible mental assault - and the goal in mind of the assailant is, at the very least, to keep you off-center. Only the meanest, heartless persons would to this to their nearest and dearest.

 

Bluemoon,

 

You would like more personal testimony? I know quite a bit about gaslighting because it was down upon me for more than a decade. Everything written above is exactly true. What I found interesting, after years of reflection, is that many of the unwarranted and random crazy statements, criticisms, and accusations directed at me -- were actually the truth about him.

 

Eventually, during the separation and four year protracted divorce, he really ramped up the gaslighting to a point where it sounded ridiculous. He accused me of the most insane things that even I saw right through -- then I was convinced, finally, he knew exactly what he was doing all along. Unforgivable.

 

No wonder I was having panic attacks, and isolated myself. Therapist, psychiatrist, medications for me. I'm still in recovery from the mental damage: trust and anger management issues I now have. I used to be the sweetest, most innocent, giving, kind girl - now, I am a completely different person, I can be vicious, like a snake (I'm not proud of this at all - I feel like I've taken on some of his bad qualities over the 26 year marriage to simply survive). I let him beat me down for a long time. Never again. I have been working in therapy twice a week trying to un-do these bad qualities that have become a part of my personality - and it is hard work (like a 12 step program).

 

Onto another topic: "Forgiveness"

 

There was mid-point in my marriage, at about 13 years where I was feeling just as you are. I was at the height of my career as a Research Professor and my husband was pulling this "hostility routine," and embarrassing me in front of my colleagues, among other unacceptable conduct, as well as things I'm positive I did not know about - will never know. We were at a crossroads - he had "attempted" to take ALL the money out of the bank, but did move out without my knowledge, while I was at work (this was a common tactic). This particular time - I sent divorce papers to him. As usual, he soon wanted to come home. This time I insisted on MC. After that, there was the same drama, again. I made the wrong choice and gave him what Abrams refers to as "Cheap Forgiveness." In fact, I made that wrong choice many times after for another 13 years.

 

You might really like the post about the "Types of Forgiveness," in the same thread you were looking at.

 

I recommend you avoid "Cheap Forgiveness."

 

Hope this post relates more to your situation, per your request. Yas

Edited April 22, 2015 by Yasuandio

[understand50]

Bluemood

 

"I keep hoping to hear from more people who have gone through this, less about analyzing my situation and offering advice... not that I don't appreciate it, but what I need is something more like a support group, someone to tell me they made it through and things really did get better and this process isn't a waste of time and that the love I feel toward the OM will dissipate and I'll be able to feel it, or something similar, for my husband... Maybe I posted to the wrong group for that"

 

 

Well, Marriages need to be worked on everyday, and that is the first thing I can say, about how my wife and I recovered from a bad situation. It will get easier, but to stay happy, you will need to work.

 

 

Background: My wife and I met in HS, she is 2 year older then me. We met when I was 15, we started dating when I was 16, we became lovers when I was 17. She graduated and took a summer job in a town 3 hours away. I would visit each weekend and we would stay together. During that July, I could not make our weekend as I was working. I called her and talked with her on Saturday. Sunday she called me and said that she had something bad to tell me and she needed me to come on Friday. That Friday she met me at he buss station and told me about her “ONS” She did not give me much information past that. Long story short, we talked, went back to her room and talked some more, and made love. By Sunday, I had forgiven her. I can say that I am sure that she has faithful to me from that time forward. 2 months later, I got my GDE, and moved in with her. We have been together ever since, marrying 2 years after that.

 

 

OK, 5 kids, collage, careers, and 2 grandchildren later, the second shock happened to us. My wife after getting out of collage, was an on and off stay at home mom. Later, we decided to have her stay at home to keep the “teenagers in line” In 2008, the company I had worked for 15 years was sold and I was layed off. I also found that my wife had been running up credit cards ($60K), spending a 2nd mortgage line of credit, $80K, and took out loans on our 401K, $30K. Total $170K. This is known as financial infidelity, and it leads to divorce as does sexual infidelity. I spent some time (3 months) deciding if I wanted to stay in the marriage. 3 things decided it for me. I still loved her, if we divorced we both would be poor, and lastly, I wanted to keep our family together. Due to the economy, all the kids had come back home.

 

So we studied on the internet, and came up with the following from many sources. We talk and agree on process, and make sure whatever we are doing it works for both of us.

 

First, I let my wife know I wanted to try and make the marriage work, but that I did not want the marriage we had. I asked he to take some time and think about it and come back to me. I made her take a week, she wanted to stay together as well.

 

Second, she had to help me find out where all the money went. There was a possibility that she had or was having a A, or drugs, or gambling, or all. None of these were so. Basically over the course of 5 years she spent about 2000k a month extra on things for herself, the kids, her family and friends. She had to come clean with everyone on what she had done. She did do this after much talking and insisting. As this was finical, it was easier to track then a A. (good paper trail) She also had to give up the money management, and now I do it, but we go over the bills each month. This way she get her input. I also give her and myself some money to do as we please.

 

Third, We started Date night. Once a week we get out of the house and do something as a couple. Depending on money situation, it could be a walk, picnic, movie, dinner, or just a long drive. The rule is we are out to have fun and we do not talk about or bring anything “heavy” up. This is for us to enjoy each others company. This has worked very well, and we both consider it the highlight of our week. We try and out do each other on things to do, that fit our budget.

 

Four, our communication was bad. We just did not talk about anything that would upset the other. “rug sweeping” We started setting aside a time each week, where we had privacy and talk. I insisted on honesty and no secrets between us. We later went to talking each month. We had long talks on why she spent the money, did she and really want to stay together, and many other questions. She had to be truthful on everything. I as well. On another post, I talked about how and why I asked about her sexual past in HS. We talked about her ONS. I, after 25 years, asked the hard questions. Not so much as to get something on her, but truth was what I and her needed. It took some time, and I investigated a bit. Both her and I wrote to each other during the time we were not together, and I reread our letters. I found 3 letters from a G/F of hers. They were replies back to her letters written at the time, and they covered her “ONS” What had really happened, was she had not gotten drunk and then seduced, but went out of her way to sleep with the guy. She was living with 4 roommates. They all knew each other from HS. They were not impressed with my wife dating some “boy” 2 years younger and still in HS. They teased her, and over a couple of beers, bet her she could not bed a “hot” guy that came around from time to time. She was not sure of us and me as well, and had her doubts, she started flirting, and over the week, went out of her way to get to know him. By that Saturday, after making out in the living room, she literally took him by the hand to her bed room and he spent the night. The next morning, thinking she had lost me for good, and feeling cheap, she called me to come on the following Saturday, as she wanted to confess face to face and let me get back on the buss after I told her off. This she did. From her friends letter, it also seems that she found out that this “hot” guy, also was in on the bet, and she and been set up to some extent by her friends. He later bedded the all the other roommates during the next month. After hearing this, and asking some more questions, I forgave her again, and told her I had no regrets about staying that weekend after she told me. My main reasons was that she had 35 plus years of being faithful to offer in balance. She talked about how ashamed she felt, that she just did not want to tell me, and she was hoping that I would forgive her when she told me. Later, as after we had moved on, she felt that no good would come from bring the matter up. This really was not a large issue, it hurt a bit, but I had processed the “ONS” a long time ago, and I still loved her. It did help that her friends letter backed her up. My main point and goal was truth between us, and also the truth was, I did not really buy the first story when she told me, but wanted to keep her. I bring this up as if you are going to work on commutation, you need to be prepared for anything to come out, and work trough it. If you ask hard questions you may, and will, get hard answers.

 

We also worked on our health, and sexual relationship. We have always had sex 2 to 3 times a week, but it had gotten boring, we had also gotten out of shape. We have been working together to help each other eat, exercise, so forth, This has helped in the bedroom. The date nights have also helped with sex as well. We now look forward to sex, and do not see it as a chore or habit.

 

So after 7 years, we are both happier, but still poor. I think we will remain together, but we both work to remain a couple. I am still vary angry over the money, but have learned not to be angry all the time. She has shown remorse, and made a large effort to change. I have learned to be a better husband, and pay attention to her. We are still working on why she lied to me and spent all that money behind my back. We may never really know, I wonder sometimes if she does. As we did not have health insurance and little money, we did not go to MC or IC for ether of us. We may go in the future, but we seem to be in a good place right now. Our MC was talking things out and we worked not to get mad when things came out. The fact that we have been together so long, and “grew” up with each other helped. The goal is to work things out and to understand each other, but not just buy everything they say. Not believing, is OK. We ask for more information, file it away for another time.

 

As for trust, I am reasonably sure she has been faithful, but if some information came forward I would check it out. On money matters, she can not have secret spending of any kind. I apply the rule to myself as well. I hope this helps. I came on LS to see if I could learn any new ideas to help on our monthly talks. I have picked up on a few things. So keep looking, and good luck.

Edited May 3, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[amaysngrace]

Holding resentment for the man he once was is unhealthy.

 

Either hold on to the past and allow it to destroy your marriage or let it go and start from now.

 

Your choice.

[Lion Heart]

Dear bluemood,

 

I read your thread starter and straight away thought "this belongs in the 'infidelity' section". It does. You had an Emotional Affair (EA) and your M is in the "reconciliation" stage.

The more I read your thread, the more I could hear you crying out for help. There is alot more traffic in that section and ls members who contribute, do so in an honest and heartfelt manner. As they do in this section too, ofcourse, I'm just highlighting the fact that many members in the infidelity section are in reconciliation now.

 

Maybe you'd be willing to start a thread there.

 

It's plain to see you are asking for specific advice from a specific group of M couples who have or have not made a successful reconciliation and why.

 

Lion Heart.

[Red123]

Hi,

 

I am hoping to connect with people who came within a hair's breadth of getting divorced, but did all the work necessary to save the relationship. I'm curious to hear what your process was, how you made it through the hardest part, got over the anger and resentment, found a way to love again, and how it feels on the other side to still be with someone who put you through so much. Or, if you did the work, but still decided that divorce was the only path forward. What was your experience?

 

The significant details of my story (hoping yours will be somewhat similar) are that we have been together for about 14 years, married for 7. We have 2 kids ages 4.5 and 7.

 

I left my career to be a stay at home mom.

He has a very demanding job.

Our relationship wasn't great before kids. It got worse after kids.

 

I started individual counseling when our oldest was about a year old. Took a break from counseling after the second child was born. Went back a year later. All the while, I'd ask my husband to go to couples counseling with me, and he'd always refuse.

 

Do I need to elaborate on why our marriage wasn't good? I suppose I could abbreviate the story by saying that we were both in a bad place (me, because of being, in effect, a single mom.. he, because work stretched him too thin and he had no work-life balance... and a thousand other things like emotional abuse, abandonment, neglect, inability to communicate, etc etc from before having kids).

 

Then, about a year ago, I accidentally "fell in love" with someone else, and it made me realize just how ****ty my marriage had gotten. I checked out of the marriage emotionally, and only then did my husband wake up and realize that he needed to make some significant changes.

 

He finally agreed to marriage counseling. We have been going for about 9 months, and now he will actually admit that it is helping him, and can finally see how my many years of therapy changed me, and our relationship, for the better. He acknowledges, finally, how much effort I put into improving our relationship, even before I met this other guy. He has made a lot of changes. He started individual counseling, too. He wakes up in the morning to make breakfast for the kids, he gets home in time from work to brush the kids teeth and once in a while early enough to cook dinner for all of us, he does the dishes instead of complaining about how there are always dirty dishes (even if he wasn't the one who used them)... instead of coming home and immediately getting back on his computer, he greets us and asks if he can help with anything. we go on regular date nights. he surprises me with gifts and flowers and chocolates. He has made a great effort to be the man I need and have always wanted him to be.

 

(queue **** talking - sorry, can't help myself)

 

The problem, though, is that he wasn't that man for the previous 13 years of our relationship or the first 6 years of our kids' lives. I was alone, struggling, and feeling abused. Now I resent his changes, because he actually IS being a good husband and he IS being a better father... why couldn't it have always been that way? Why was my emotional detachment the only thing that caused him to act the way I had always wanted him to? If I reattach, emotionally, will he go away again? How could I dare leave him now, now that he is being so good? Why can't I accept the help he offers now, instead of just resenting that it wasn't there before?

 

Who am I to leave this man, who is doing the work, who wants me in his life, who wants to be a good dad to his kids, who wants to be a good husband.... so what if he slept on the couch of his own free will for 13 years, making me feel ugly, unwanted, and rejected. So what if he would call at 6pm to say he was leaving work and not show up until 2am with no account for where he'd been, and i'm sick and have two screaming children who wouldn't go to bed. So what if my life has been **** for 13 years, because now he has decided to show up. Now that I am ready to leave.

 

Now the fate of our relationship is up to me, it's on ME to forgive HIM. I'M the one who fell in love with someone else, so I'M the one who ruined the marriage, and none of my suffering matters now because of that. AND he is an amazing provider, he is an attractive man, so why on earth would I ever leave a man who has so many redeeming qualities? What kind of person does that make me?

 

So right now, I'm at a crossroads. Both of my therapists tell me that if we keep on working on our relationship, it'll get better. That at some point I will fall back in love with my husband. (They use two analogies - one is that you have a bunch of emotional cups, and all my cups were totally empty for a LONG time, and now they are getting filled back up. the idea is that once they are reasonably full, meaning my basic needs like eating, sleeping, companionship, time without the kids, etc are met, I'll have bandwidth to process the deeper issues going on and be able to feel love again...

 

while many of the cups are now mostly full and have been for a few months (meaning he has been consistent with the changes he has made), i still am no where near feeling love for my husband. at best, i feel we are friends with benefits (when drunk)...

 

the other analogy is that i've been in an emotional drought. there is just hard packed dirt. when he starts to show up in the relationship, it's like a deluge and the water just rolls off. it takes a slow, steady rain before the soil will soften. and then it takes even longer before the flowers (love?) begin to grow again. i'd say at this point the soil is softened and i'm hopeful albeit doubtful that the seeds will grow)

 

I feel like I am making a choice between what is right for the family, (ie staying in the marriage - but let's not start the "what's best for the kids are happy parents" conversation, because the goal is not happiness, is it? isn't it stability for the children? to hurt as few people as possible?) and my own selfish desire to feel happy.

 

fwiw, I didn't have a physical relationship with the other guy, we hugged once or twice, but there was a very deep connection that we prolonged, off and on, via text and email over the last year.

 

This is where you come in. Tell me - is it really possible? Did it happen to you? Were you able to see past the anger and resentment? Were you able to forget about being in love? being happy?

 

(I mean, can you go on in the relationship without love and happiness and just stop chasing the dream of having those things? Everything else is fine, I can find happiness in other ways like with the kids and snuggling the dog, so can the relationship continue even if I don't feel love and that particular kind of happiness towards my husband?)

 

did the happiness and love come back in your relationship? what if it was never there in the first place? can it be cultivated from this point, for the sake of the children, and the life that has been built (homes, cars, furniture, traditions..)? arranged marriages work out, right? isn't this kind of similar? if i can't love him, whose to say i could love anyone at all?

 

Please tell me your experience, whether you're the husband or the wife, I want to hear about the aftermath, please. What worked for you and what didn't. I'm trying to figure out if I am prolonging the inevitable or doing the right thing by being patient and continuing with the work of improving the existing relationship.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

I believe that for some of us real change only comes from crisis. So maybe your feelings for another man woke your H up to action. Your life sounds like so many of us, overworked, busy, exhausted so it's so hard to make time for our spouse when everything else applies so much pressure. As far as now, it sounds like things are the way you wanted them to be. So you have the choice to stay in the past or move forward. If he is willing to forgive you for your time with this other man, maybe you can try to forgive him. My relationship with my H is so different now and I too have struggled with why couldn't this have been this way all along, we had crisis and so much change since then. I think the answer (for me) is that we needed the lessons we had to endure in order to change and truly appreciate each other. I wish you the best in your relationship.

[alsudduth]

 

And we did have sex once in a while (and two kids). But I suppose his 'needs' were not ever being adequately met. That contributed to his being an a**hole all the time. Suffice to say, we are also working through our sex issues. It is hard to want to have sex with someone that you associate with emotional pain. Women need to feel emotionally connected and safe in order to want and enjoy sex. I don't feel that way towards him right now. The whole process is hard.

 

 

 

I believe I have said almost this exact same thing. My husband is starting to get it I hope....

[bluemood]

Thank you, Understand50, for sharing your experience. There are a lot of similarities to mine.

 

One thing that stands out for me is that you love your wife, and she loves you. That is a big difference between your situation and mine. Right now, I'm questioning whether or not I love my husband and if I ever really have. I was reminded by the OM what love actually feels like, and I can't ever remember feeling that way for my husband.

 

I also wonder if love is the thing that kept you and your wife together and got you through it. It seems like love has a magical power of helping people to get through the hard parts of being in a relationship. My husband says he loves me (which I might believe, now, but for sure he didn't before I met the OM), so maybe his love will hold us together until I find my way. But is it fair for him to be with a woman that doesn't love him? Or will I eventually learn to love him, if he keeps showing up and being part of the family and paying attention to me?

 

A friend of mine has a theory... that you only really ever truly love your first love. So if you're lucky enough to still be with your first love, then you'll be able to work things out. But if you aren't with your first love, then you're screwed, basically. I am not with my first love. Neither is my husband. But we are "comfortable" together, so maybe that is enough? Maybe love isn't necessary when everything else is fine?

 

But love is so powerful. I miss the feeling.

[bluemood]

Holding resentment for the man he once was is unhealthy.

 

Either hold on to the past and allow it to destroy your marriage or let it go and start from now.

 

Your choice.

 

Amaysngrace, I read your reply last week, and it has been haunting me ever since!

 

I would LOVE to be able to let go of all the pain, to pretend like my husband did nothing wrong, to forgive him for abandoning me with two kids. But it's not like I can just say to myself "oh, ok, I'll just let it go. ok, there it goes, bye!" and be done with it. Emotions just don't work that way.

 

I think that's what marriage counseling is for, right? To work through each pain one by one until the hurt goes away. Letting go is a long, hard process. I resent, SO MUCH, the idea that *I* alone am the one who is ruining this marriage. He abuses and neglects me for so many years and now, because HE left my heart unattended, *I* am the one that is responsible for "letting go"? He gets a free pass? I don't think so.

 

I will not "let it go". What I WILL do, is PROCESS the pain.

[bluemood]

Dear bluemood,

 

I read your thread starter and straight away thought "this belongs in the 'infidelity' section". It does. You had an Emotional Affair (EA) and your M is in the "reconciliation" stage.

The more I read your thread, the more I could hear you crying out for help. There is alot more traffic in that section and ls members who contribute, do so in an honest and heartfelt manner. As they do in this section too, ofcourse, I'm just highlighting the fact that many members in the infidelity section are in reconciliation now.

 

Maybe you'd be willing to start a thread there.

 

It's plain to see you are asking for specific advice from a specific group of M couples who have or have not made a successful reconciliation and why.

 

Lion Heart.

 

oh! you are probably right. Thank you for the suggestion! I didn't look around much before I made my original post. I saw something similar in this area from a few years ago so that's why I posted it here.

[beach]

My experience is long and tough.

 

But are you capable of letting go of the past and live in today?

 

Does your H know you were deeply connected emotionally to another man?

 

 

He's willing to try now - it may be useful to see how the marriage can change.

 

 

Does he have deep conversations with you? How is his interest level when he's home? Do you have fun when you two go out together?

[nightmare01]

We are closing on 14 years passed dday. Still Married - but I feel I did most of the heavy lifting and sacrifices in saving the M.

 

First - have you told your husband of your affair?

 

This is key because unless you are honest with your husband - as long as that secret exists between you two, it will keep you from being truly emotionally intimate with each other. The M will be based on a lie - the lie that you have been faithful when you've not.

[bluemood]

My experience is long and tough.

 

But are you capable of letting go of the past and live in today?

 

Does your H know you were deeply connected emotionally to another man?

 

 

He's willing to try now - it may be useful to see how the marriage can change.

 

 

Does he have deep conversations with you? How is his interest level when he's home? Do you have fun when you two go out together?

 

 

Long and tough is my experience, so far, too. Yes, my H knows everything.

I think we do have deep conversations, now. His interest level is pretty good, now. We have fun together until something reminds one of us about the EA.

 

Although, honestly, I am always a bit nervous when we plan to spend time together because I never know which way it'll go... if he'll be easy going and fun, or a total absent stick in the mud.