For the separation and divorce folks

[kenmore]

Just a thought that came to me today: You are not losing someone you love, you are losing someone who does not love you! Big difference!

 

Best to you all.

 

Ken

Edited March 26, 2015 by kenmore

[Majormisstep]

Ken, your posts are encouraging. You are making your way through this transition with class and dignity.

 

I was the "leaver" so to speak. Stbx loved me but I didn't feel the same way about him. In typical fashion, I now realize what I had and would give anything to reconcile. He does not want me back. Got a long road ahead of me

[chew123]

Kenmore,

 

I agree, why want someone who does not want us.

 

Misstep,

 

I may be wrong but I suspect my ex-wife may be thinking like you in a few months. What scares me is that I do still love her and if she did try to come back I think I would consider it. I honestly don't want her back after the way she treated me but i can't predict how I will feel in the future.

 

How long were you gone before you tried to reconcile? Did you have an affair or did you just leave because of lost love.

[kenmore]

Thanks you two for your posts. For the record, I do still love her but I have developed a coating which seems to allow me to not be dug into by the scythe that can rip my heart. I don't know how or why this happened. It just did on a specific day and has been in place ever since.

 

I just spent many hours on the phone with a beautiful woman who I have been trying to develop a business / personal relationship with, and we have a date for lunch tomorrow. She is a Cantonese / Swedish mix if you can imagine. I'm looking very forward to it, but have no intention of pushing this now. That said, my wife has made her feelings clear, so if something is progressing, I will go with it. Why the f*ck not?

 

I loved her with all my heart, she did not. So, if this works out, am I to blame?

 

Ken

[kenmore]

Ken, your posts are encouraging. You are making your way through this transition with class and dignity.

 

I was the "leaver" so to speak. Stbx loved me but I didn't feel the same way about him. In typical fashion, I now realize what I had and would give anything to reconcile. He does not want me back. Got a long road ahead of me

 

Thank you misstep. We all make mistakes. I did years ago by not finishing my education. Instead I chose to go with the "family business". My wife always held that against me. It could never have worked out just for that reason. I went back to college, but then she accused me of "using her to get through college". Apparently, I have to do it on my own, which would be fine, except I would have had to leave to do so.

 

So now I left and I am alone. I can do what I want. I am. I am developing a new career, and hey, I am meeting a woman tomorrow. She has no more say. I'm doing it on my own like she said. I doubt that she will have doubts as you are, but if she does, too late!

 

In your case, you do seem to really want it to work, so I wish that for you with all my heart! I'm truly sorry that you are in pain. You seem so wonderful!

 

I haven't heard from my wife for weeks now, so that just makes it all the easier to think screw her. I will meet this woman tomorrow and will enjoy it as if I'm alone...because I am.

 

Ken

Edited March 27, 2015 by kenmore

[KBarletta]

I loved her with all my heart, she did not. So, if this works out, am I to blame?

 

Go for it Ken. Whatever happens happens, but whatever it is certainly is not your fault. You have suffered with this back and forth for a long time, and it is good to see you looking to the future!

 

I would urge you to take things slowly with this new woman and guard your feelings (and hers) because it's clear that there are still some feelings there for your ex. I am in a similar boat and while it is great (GREAT!) to spend time with other beautiful women, I am being very careful not to get into a situation where one of us could get hurt until I am sure of what my next step in life is going to be. So - go for it, just be cautious.

 

Good luck!

[KBarletta]

I was the "leaver" so to speak. Stbx loved me but I didn't feel the same way about him. In typical fashion, I now realize what I had and would give anything to reconcile. He does not want me back. Got a long road ahead of me

 

Like Chew, I believe my wife has had or will have these same feelings. Whether she will act on them is another question, as she is the most stubborn person I've ever met, sticking with every bad choice she's ever made as if she's incapable of admitting a mistake.

 

I believe I am approaching a tipping point, very soon if I'm not there already, where my desire to move on will be significantly greater than my desire for her to come back to me. A month or two ago, her coming back would have been a dream come true. Now it would be as likely as not that if she came back I would tell her to get lost. It's easy for me to forgive what she did, but not as easy to forget, quite honestly. When someone tells you they don't want to be with you, then they change their mind, it's hard for me to think that they won't change their mind - again - some time down the road.

[Movingforward2]

Like Chew, I believe my wife has had or will have these same feelings. Whether she will act on them is another question, as she is the most stubborn person I've ever met, sticking with every bad choice she's ever made as if she's incapable of admitting a mistake.

 

I believe I am approaching a tipping point, very soon if I'm not there already, where my desire to move on will be significantly greater than my desire for her to come back to me. A month or two ago, her coming back would have been a dream come true. Now it would be as likely as not that if she came back I would tell her to get lost. It's easy for me to forgive what she did, but not as easy to forget, quite honestly. When someone tells you they don't want to be with you, then they change their mind, it's hard for me to think that they won't change their mind - again - some time down the road.

 

 

 

I'm about at the point I feel the same way. Still quite not there, but selling our home and starting over is just that.......starting over. I could also forgive pretty easily...everyone makes mistakes.......

 

 

I think those characteristics of stubborn and decisions that don't make any sense are the biggest headscratchers. While it certainly takes some time to get to a breaking point....Was it really THAT bad?

[chew123]

KB,

 

Interesting you mention the stubborn thing. My wife would never admit a mistake even when she knew she was definitely wrong. She was like this the whole time we were together. I thought it was cute. Not so much now.

 

Cbew

[Michelle ma Belle]

Although I appreciate your positivity if only to get you through the pain you're dealing with, I do not necessarily subscribe to that belief.

 

In some cases, one person stops loving the other.

 

In other cases (like mine for example) one realizes that love just isn't enough to keep two people together.

 

[KBarletta]

While it certainly takes some time to get to a breaking point....Was it really THAT bad?

 

In my case (and I suspect others), it's not so much that it was "bad" but that it didn't fulfill their needs or wants or dreams of what it "should" be. Some people, I think, wrongly expect relationships to solve or ease their own issues, make life rosy like a fairy tale, and when real life intrudes and they realize that it takes actual work and commitment and effort to bring about those results, they bail out and move on to the next potential "fairy tale" which of course is eventually bound to flame out in similar fashion. That's my take on my wife. She admitted when she left that our life together was "90 percent good" but still not good enough for her to stay. That, to me, is someone who expects a fairy tale and isn't satisfied until they get it, even though the reality is that they never will.

[chew123]

KB,

 

The similarities continue, my wife said I was 100 percent a good husband and our life was 90 percent. I really think they just like to babble things thinking they make us feel better and to allay their guilt.

 

There must be a secret sister site to this one where they all get together to talk.

 

Your analysis is wise though. No one will ever get the perfect relationship, they are chasing rainbows.

 

Chew

[81West]

Ken, your posts are encouraging. You are making your way through this transition with class and dignity.

 

I was the "leaver" so to speak. Stbx loved me but I didn't feel the same way about him. In typical fashion, I now realize what I had and would give anything to reconcile. He does not want me back. Got a long road ahead of me

 

This made me sad. I don't know everybody's story well, but your posts always seemed to describe a marriage that compromised real fulfilment on almost every front. A slog alone really is better than a slog together, just for the courage and hope alone. Even if that chance moment that spins you in a whole new direction where love and life can be lived the way it's meant to be lived never comes, at least there was always a chance. All things being equal, a life of being a refugee in your own soul is so much worse than being alone. For what it's worth, I don't think you did the wrong thing by leaving.

[81West]

Just a thought that came to me today: You are not losing someone you love, you are losing someone who does not love you! Big difference!

 

Best to you all.

 

Ken

 

Bang on. It's the cognitive life preserver we must hang on to when we're drowning in the emotions of grief and self doubt. We truly all do merit a full and secure love - not just to be able to receive it, but to be allowed to give it too.

[apeman101]

Women do not love men the same way men love women. Women want the feeling of being desired from men. Men have to keep performing in order to keep women under control. This is the reason why women have fantasies like 50 Shades of ...

[dreamingoftigers]

Women do not love men the same way men love women. Women want the feeling of being desired from men. Men have to keep performing in order to keep women under control. This is the reason why women have fantasies like 50 Shades of ...

 

:facepalm: a thousand times facepalm

 

Yeah, I bet if you married a sexual girl who cleaned house real well, and then once you married her she sat on the couch all day, eating doughnuts and throwing the wrappers on the floor, you would just be so happy she was still married to you.

 

The same thing happens to us. We marry a thoughtful guy that gets us flowers or cards or does nice things to show appreciation for us.

 

Then we get married. And some men are great, they know to maintain a relationship, some men do nice things "once in awhile" and other men decide that they are entitled to the sex, the clean house and the fruits of her career while doing absolutely nothing to maintain the bond between them.

 

Much like some people get a new car and make sure to keep it washed, oil changes, brakework, some people maintain their vehicles so well that they get to 1,000,000 kms or miles.

 

Some people just throw the oil in, maybe change it twice a year. Maybe. If something breaks, they fix it. Over time it just kind of all wears out.

 

Some people do absolutely nothing to maintain a vehicle and burn it right out. Make a mess of the interior, some people don't even remember to fill their gas tank and get stuck on the freeway.

 

Everything worth having in life requires some form of maintenance.

FYI, whining about the gender you want to sleep with isn't maintenance.

[Michelle ma Belle]

Women do not love men the same way men love women. Women want the feeling of being desired from men. Men have to keep performing in order to keep women under control. This is the reason why women have fantasies like 50 Shades of ...

 

You're kidding me, right?

 

"...keep women under control"?!?!

 

You clearly do NOT know women at all.

[dreamingoftigers]

You're kidding me, right?

 

"...keep women under control"?!?!

 

You clearly do NOT know women at all.

 

I swear that 50 shades of Bullshyte has set us back 50 years.....

[Jclements00]

Currently going through a separation that the wife wants and still living together until I can financially move out, the way I see it is if you do all you can to make things better to work it out and the other still doesn't want, it is not your fault. You really need to look at the other person if they don't want the marriage anymore and are happy without then why put yourself through all the pain and suffering over someone who doesn't appreciate you. Sure every divorce is different but mostly it's one that wants out or did something bad enough to warrant getting out. In my case my wife just won't budge on even trying to accept we can work it out when I have been the best guy she ever had. But she always has lost the good guys in her life and she chooses to support herself after admitting she married me so I could pay her bills yet says she did love me. I work too hard to be used and I loved my wife and still do, have been faithful and always made sure she knew I loved her.

 

Whatever your situation is just remember when you start to feel pain to look at the other person and if they are not in pain then don't let yourself be down over someone who isn't. No one is alone in divorce a whole lot of people go through it and a lot are probably having a harder time than you. It may not be the greatest thing but one thing I keep hearing is how great it turns out over time. Being free able to be you and care for only you and do the things you want to do in life will make it all worthwhile. You were alone and fine before that person and you will fine after. When you wonder if it'll get better rest assured it will or you would still be stuck in a bad marriage that you aren't worth stressing over. Stress will fade relief will come you will one day be a better you and be thankful for the divorce.

[kenmore]

Like Chew, I believe my wife has had or will have these same feelings. Whether she will act on them is another question, as she is the most stubborn person I've ever met, sticking with every bad choice she's ever made as if she's incapable of admitting a mistake.

 

I believe I am approaching a tipping point, very soon if I'm not there already, where my desire to move on will be significantly greater than my desire for her to come back to me. A month or two ago, her coming back would have been a dream come true. Now it would be as likely as not that if she came back I would tell her to get lost. It's easy for me to forgive what she did, but not as easy to forget, quite honestly. When someone tells you they don't want to be with you, then they change their mind, it's hard for me to think that they won't change their mind - again - some time down the road.

 

Hi my friend! I would have given this post a dozen likes if I could, you said EXACTLY what has been going through my mind for the last dozen walks I took. I take them when I can...2 1/2 miles, every day or if I can't, at least once a week. Lately more the latter.

 

But it gives me about an hour alone to think about me and what's going on, and what do I think of most? You guessed it!

 

I feel lucky. I was like you in ambivalence land. She gave me "what for" just before our fifth anniversary (Feb 23.) And why? because I sent her a gift and a card. I had been sending her gifts and cards for all occasions, but this time she complained. She had sent me gifts too. But with this complaint, she also told me she never meant the things that gave me hope. It finally sealed the deal! That was just what I needed!

 

The other thing you said that hit home was about being stubborn and not admitting a mistake. After five years (more when you add in dating time), I know my wife! I know how she thinks and what's important to her. I know I mean a lot to her. While I know it's over, I know it's so because she decided it and she will NEVER admit to being wrong. She used to. When we were dating, she admitted being wrong a few times as did I; but as time went by, she admitted it less and less; but I still did when I was wrong. She has grown into a never admitting wrongness attitude, and since I won't talk to her anymore, it must be festering.

 

But it doesn't matter, it's over. I'm gonna see this beautiful lady tomorrow and have fun! I won't have sex because I promised myself I won't while married and already told her so (yeah, we have talked sex a lot LOL!) but I sure as Hell will enjoy her company!

 

So, who got hurt here? It seemed it was me. Maybe it's nobody. Maybe it will be her? Don't give a crap anymore. What's important to me anymore is my well being and my happiness. Also the happiness of anyone I am dating. My ex? That is so last year!

 

Ken

[contact1]

While the original post is a good boosting one, it doesn't always apply. I know in my case it certainly was not in that fashion.

 

I have no doubts that my ex-wife loved me, and I loved her too for a very long time. But just like your ex, mine would also never admit to having made a mistake, but had no issues pointing out the ones I had.

 

I was the one to have ended the marriage, for many reasons, just like Michelle said, sometimes just love alone isn't enough, when the person that loves you has certain characteristics that makes it almost impossible to live with.

[kenmore]

Although I appreciate your positivity if only to get you through the pain you're dealing with, I do not necessarily subscribe to that belief.

 

In some cases, one person stops loving the other.

 

In other cases (like mine for example) one realizes that love just isn't enough to keep two people together.

 

 

Hey Michelle! Not sure if you are talking to me or KB, but if me, I entertained that idea for awhile but decided it was a load of crap. (I went on walks and reflected a LOT!)

 

If someone loves someone else, it takes a whole hell of a lot to make it stop! Someone just does not start to "not love" someone they love. At least not in my own brain where love has a certain meaning. Maybe if love has a different meaning or none in someone else's brain it can change, I can't know that. Maybe that's why many of us are here?

 

To me, love is an emotional bond that just gets stronger and stronger with time. The more time you spend with your spouse, the more you love them! That's how it has always been with me and how it will always be. I can imagine it being different with others, especially those who hurt us too much. Maybe those who just don't care (but then I wonder why they would marry in the first place.) I know people can change and their feelings do, but I still say it should take one Hell of a lot to have that happen!

 

I feel like love is the only force strong enough to keep two people together. Why the Hell else would they? Money? Yeah, that's a real touching relationship! Respect? Better but that's part of love, as is sex.

 

I'm not trying to make light of your breakup nor cause a fight, but I simply disagree with you. I still love you though!

 

Ken

[Majormisstep]

Ken, Chew and KB, you three gentlemen have (unknowingly) been my rock through this journey. Maybe because I'm on the flip side and can see what my stbx is going through on his end. Damn this is hard. BUT, with the support of family, cyber and live friends plus a library of self-help books (my collection is growing rapidly - yikes), we WILL get through this and be ok.

 

Yup, we all make mistakes. Though Ken it doesn't make sense that your career/schooling path was the catalyst to end the M. Adversities and changes happen and as a couple you work through them. Anyway, that is now the past.

 

81West...are you my IC?? Are you on LS too? LOL! All kidding aside, that is exactly what she said to me verbatim at my last session. Wow. A very powerful and inspirational message. Thank you so much 81

 

Ken, good luck and please take it slow with that pretty lady today. Although you have a better understanding of where you are in this phase, you are not on "the other side" yet.

[kenmore]

Ken, Chew and KB, you three gentlemen have (unknowingly) been my rock through this journey. Maybe because I'm on the flip side and can see what my stbx is going through on his end. Damn this is hard. BUT, with the support of family, cyber and live friends plus a library of self-help books (my collection is growing rapidly - yikes), we WILL get through this and be ok.

 

Yup, we all make mistakes. Though Ken it doesn't make sense that your career/schooling path was the catalyst to end the M. Adversities and changes happen and as a couple you work through them. Anyway, that is now the past.

 

81West...are you my IC?? Are you on LS too? LOL! All kidding aside, that is exactly what she said to me verbatim at my last session. Wow. A very powerful and inspirational message. Thank you so much 81

 

Ken, good luck and please take it slow with that pretty lady today. Although you have a better understanding of where you are in this phase, you are not on "the other side" yet.

 

Thank you Misstep. I appreciate you saying I (we) have been helpful to you. There is not much to be happy about right now, but knowing anything I have done or said helped someone, that does make me happier.

 

I'm sure you're right that my career path or education in themselves were not the real issues. She said they were, but they were most likely just ways of using vulnerable spots to get to me. I mean I was practically perfect in every way, she had to pick on something, right? What she said was that she lost respect for me because I was not able to get a job worthy of my intelligence and skills. She said it was because of laziness. While I deny that, there were many factors; amongst them frustration and my efforts at "pulling my weight". While I can't deny that I have my lazy times, I really did try to get a good job. All that said, I have come to the conclusion that she never loved me, wanted out of the marriage even before it began, and that I was always looking at it through rose colored glasses. That means it would have ended anyway. She would have just found a different reason. So, seven years of my life to learn one valuable lesson, take off the stinkin' rose colored glasses!

 

I know to be careful, I just wonder if I'll have the ability. She woke me up this morning telling me how she woke up...it was almost like waking up next to her, and if I had, we wouldn't have even used words.

 

She and I are in the same boat sexually, the only difference is I'm still married. Somehow that means something to me. It's not about worrying how doing it would hurt my wife (although I suppose I do), and it's not about any hope of reconciliation (though I suppose there is always that crappy doubt in the back of my mind), it's about being true to myself. It's about the fact that I made a vow to someone to be faithful, to love her and to cherish her, and even though that has all been thrown back onto my face, it still means something in my own heart.

 

That's what will keep me from having sex with this lady, assuming she would even go there anyway. She was sure acting ready this morning! I'm hoping she would respect my feelings and even respect me more for feeling them, but it's possible it will just frustrate her in the long run. I mean we're still talking months before I'm legally divorced. That's a long time to hold out in a new relationship!

 

I often wonder how our parents and ancestors held out! Think they did or just said they did?

[Majormisstep]

Then your stbxw must have had some pretty high and likely unachievable standards. That is/was her currency...you in a high level career which looks good to the family and community etc. and so on. Big deal and who really cares. But you are correct, if you had the job of her dreams, it would have been something else.

 

You'll know when the time is right to get close to someone else. I've been asked out a couple of times since separating from H, but am just not interested. Probably because I'm "saving myself" for H when he rides in on his white steed and sweeps me away saying he's missed me so much and off we go into the sunset. Anyhoo...it looks like I'd better hunker down with a self-help book tonight because my thoughts are getting a wee bit random

 

Tomorrow is a new day for all of us.