The Universe has Given Me a Second Chance.

[jimmy1968]

Well I was here this summer and going through a divorce. It only took a couple months. I made sure it went through smoothly for my children, 3 boys and a little girl. My three boys came from my first marriage and my little girl from my second.

 

My marriage to EX was a real nightmare from the start. She bought her own wedding ring, quit her job right away and refused to work. Ex threw tantrums everyday, spent every cent of our money, sometimes I did not have enough gas to get to work and I make six figures. Se screamed and cursed everyday. I was living on pins and needles. She has some sort of disorder which which hasn't been diagnoies to my knowledge. I found out she had done porn with some friends of ours before we got marrried She swore at my biological children everyday and than we would fight over that. Everyday was a nightmare. A trauma.

 

I started doing yoga and seeing a therapist because I was super depressed and sad. I got the strength to get away from her. It went so smoothly and it all worked out to my benefit. I got the house, half custody of the kids and now I have money in the bank.

 

I see a therapist once a week for the past 2 years which has helped me in so many ways. I never loved myself and felt really afraid of being alone. Had alot of childhood trauma. That's why I ended up in bad relationships. codependent ones. Than I'd get angry and try to make my EX value me.

 

She wasn't there for me. In anyway and I know that I deserve to be loved.

 

Why do I still think about her? Why do I obsessed about her? She was horrible. She put me through so much trauma and abused my children. Why can't I break the thoughts of her she's been gone for 7 months. Why do I care who's she sleeping with?

 

Please advise I don't want to blow my second chance. Thanks!

[Ralph79]

I posted this on another thread. You and your ex seem to fit the criteria. I recommend you read. Might bring you comfort.

 

AT ANY COST: Saving your Life after Loving a Borderline.

 

And

 

OBSESSED WITH A BORDERLINE - A Matter of Attraction and Revulsion

 

These articles help us rethink our lives. Worth reading fully.

 

Cheers

[GirlStillStrong]

I posted about how this happened to me too, in reply to another thread, except it took me like 20 years to get over. For me, i think it was because I really cared about the person and it was the first time someone I really cared about and thought i had a future with actually exploited my feelings for him. It's traumatizing to be treated that way. I was 32 years old before I met a man who truly cared about me and how I felt that he actually would ASK what was upsetting me instead of just fighting with me about whatever it was I was saying to him. He literally changed my life. He became the new standard.

 

Maybe you need to meet someone who truly cares about you. Someone who is not such a selfish *******.

[jimmy1968]

My ex doesn't have borderline personality disorder. But somewhat similiar, and great read. My first wife had bpd. Thank you for the support. My therapist recommended I get my thoughts out here. She has taken so much from me and I wish she was wiped from my mind.

 

See has:

 

Histrionic personality disorder (HPD) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association as a personality disorder. HPD is characterized by a pattern of excessive attention-seeking emotions, usually beginning in early adulthood, including inappropriately seductive behavior and an excessive need for approval. Histrionic people are lively, dramatic, vivacious, enthusiastic, and flirtatious. HPD affects four times as many women as men.[1] It has a prevalence of 2–3% in the general population and 10–15% in inpatient and outpatient mental health institutions.[2]

HPD lies in the dramatic cluster of personality disorders.[3] People with HPD have a high need for attention, make loud and inappropriate appearances, exaggerate their behaviors and emotions, and crave stimulation.[3] They may exhibit sexually provocative behavior, express strong emotions with an impressionistic style, and can be easily influenced by others. Associated features include egocentrism, self-indulgence, continuous longing for appreciation, and persistent manipulative behavior to achieve their own needs.

[jimmy1968]

20 years! Wow that's a super long time. My EX was a living nightmare and I think I have a trauma bonding problem. Similiar to PSTD, good and bad times create intimacy. I hate her so much, but than feel love and obsess about her when I feel lonely.

 

Thanks you.

[Downtown]

She has some sort of disorder which which hasn't been diagnosed to my knowledge.

Jimmy, I agree with Ralph that the behaviors you describe -- i.e, the frequent temper tantrums, verbal abuse, feeling of entitlement (to being taken care of), and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs of BPD. I had intended to discuss this with you in your first thread last June but you left before responding to my post. She may also have strong traits of HPD, as you suspect. Studies have shown that the vast majority of people suffering one PD also suffer from another one too.

 

Importantly, you are not capable of determining whether your exW has full-blown BPD. Only a professional can make a diagnosis. You nonetheless are capable of spotting any strong BPD warning signs that occurred during the 7 years you were married. There is nothing subtle about red flags such as frequent temper tantrums and always being "The Victim."

 

I was living on pins and needles.

If your exW is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), that is exactly how you should have felt. This is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

 

I found out she had done porn with some friends of ours before we got marrried.

Studies have found that women working in the sex industry have a strong incidence of BPD. A 1999 article by Dr. Layden (Dept. of Psychiatry, Univ. of Penn.), for example, states:

Most strippers, as with other women who work in the sex industry, are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Research indicates the number is between 60%-80%. One study found that... 55% had Borderline Personality Disorder.... Often as adults they reenact their childhood trauma by working as strippers, Playboy models, and prostitutes. See

55% of Prostitutes Are BPD

.

She swore at my biological children everyday and than we would fight over that.

If she is a BPDer, this behavior is not unexpected. BPDers typically are so fearful of abandonment that they will try to isolate their spouses from family members and close friends. My BPDer exW, for example, tried repeatedly to verbally abuse my foster son -- behavior that I would not permit.

 

Why do I still think about her? Why do I obsessed about her?

There likely are two primary reasons. One is that, being an excessive caregiver like me, the notion of walking away from a sick loved one is anathema to you. That is, it is extremely difficult for you to throw up your hands and accept the fact that you cannot fix her. (During childhood, we caregivers were taught that we are the "little fixers" of the family -- a role we do not take lightly.)

 

The other likely reason, if she is a BPDer, is that the toxic marriage actually has a very addictive quality. When BPDers are behaving well (i.e., "splitting you white"), they typically are very VERY good. And when they are behaving badly, they are horrid. The marriage therefore takes on an addictive quality as is seen in the use of heroine and other hard drugs, where the highs are separated by painful lows. During the marriage, you likely always had the feeling that, if you could only figure out what YOU were doing wrong, you could restore your exW to that wonderful woman you had seen at the beginning.

 

If you would like to read more about these red flags, an easy place to start is my list at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss it with you. Take care, Jimmy.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Downtown

[Ralph79]

@Downtown

 

I would like to one day message you about how you overcame the BPD eX addiction. I went through a really REALLY rough marriage, and although I feel almost completely recovered, there are still some lingering resentments I feel towards my BPD eX.

 

I don't want to Hijack jimmy's thread though.

 

@ Jimmy

 

Your feelings are normal after what you went through I would think. Did your therapist ever meet your eX ?

[jimmy1968]

Dallas, thanks for the insight, see show many of the BPD traits!

[jimmy1968]

No worries on hijacking, we have the same problems. My therapist couldn't believe I allowed some of the behavior to happen. But as a good therapist she has helped me move energy from my childhood. I've been seeing her for around 3 years, two of those I was married. She helped me see that I can have real love for myself and get it from others. The more I love myself and accept myself the more I don't think about her.

 

When I feel lonely and fearful of being alone, I feel like reaching out to her.

 

We have a daughter and when I see her see still wants to have sex with me, which is really hard.

 

I'm getting stronger, but our push and pull stuff is really addictive. You just have to learn to pause and break old habits. If you do fall back don't feel guilty just move on and learn from it.

[GirlStillStrong]

20 years! Wow that's a super long time. My EX was a living nightmare and I think I have a trauma bonding problem. Similiar to PSTD, good and bad times create intimacy. I hate her so much, but than feel love and obsess about her when I feel lonely.

 

Thanks you.

Yeah, well it happened when I was around 16, my first boyfriend. Who knew a guy could be personality disordered at age 17? It thoroughly confused me and set me up for making bad choices throughout my 20s I think. Thankfully I was able to break out of that in my 30s.

 

I understand about the PTSD. Not sure what is trauma bonding though?

[jimmy1968]

Trauma Bonding is really interesting. Google it. Couple bond over good time and bad. It's deep inside of you, so in my case my EX was extremely abusive and we had some really horrible fights. Sometimes she got violent and with me and my kids. Couple can start to bond over the bad experience and loose site of want is real.

[beach]

Are you saying that you still give in and have sex with her?

 

If so, have you written out on paper how this looks/how you allow her to control you?

[jimmy1968]

I did a couple times but have not for awhile. I felt like garbage after. She is hard to break away from. The sex was the only thing we had in our relationship and she used it to control me and make me feel loved. I have had some lonely times since the breakup and I gave into her.

Edited January 23, 2015 by jimmy1968

[jimmy1968]

It's so hard to get her out of my mind. I'm getting better at it though and think time will heal.

[Ralph79]

Interesting video that might explain the way you feel.

 

Science of Love: Heartbreak Video - History of Valentine?s Day - HISTORY.com

[Downtown]

@Downtown, I would like to one day message you about how you overcame the BPD eX addiction. I went through a really REALLY rough marriage....

What helped me the most, Ralph, was being tossed into jail for 3 days on a bogus charge of wife battering from my BPDer exW -- and then being locked out of my own home for 18 months by the R/O she filed to "protect" herself. I would be glad to discuss it with you either in the forum (if you want to start a thread) or in PMs (after you've been here a sufficient time, you will be granted PM privileges).

[Ralph79]

What helped me the most, Ralph, was being tossed into jail for 3 days on a bogus charge of wife battering from my BPDer exW -- and then being locked out of my own home for 18 months by the R/O she filed to "protect" herself. I would be glad to discuss it with you either in the forum (if you want to start a thread) or in PMs (after you've been here a sufficient time, you will be granted PM privileges).

 

Jail. Wow. That certainly would help most of us to start putting our lives in perspective.

 

I'll wait until I'm allowed to message you. I want to have some feedback specifically from people who have obsessed with BPD eX's.

 

But I'll share this: For me , it has happened in several stages , the first being my realization that she was never in love with me:

 

While I still loved my then wife who had just split a little over a year ago, I was convinced there was some part, deep within her troubled mind that was still in love with me too.

 

That all changed after I got into what should have been a fatal car crash. My SUV was rendered useless after I crashed head on into a concrete column after losing control of my car on a freeway. I lost consciousness and I woke up to the sight of blood splattered everywhere.

 

First thing I could focus on was my dad's drivers license which landed in the passenger side seat. I had been looking for it for weeks. It must have slipped in between the car seats long ago. It flew there due to the wreck. I remember hearing my dad's voice so clearly saying "Not yet". I figured this was all in my head but I looked around just in case because I heard the voice so clearly that I thought someone was there. But all I saw was the ambulance arriving and some far away spectators.

 

I also saw a picture of my then wife and myself that fell out of the glove compartment. I lost consciousness again after that.

 

While there were no major injuries to myself due to some miracle I was watched overnight because I did sustain a heavy blow to my head. I saw that my wife had sent another email without knowledge of what had happened simply asking if we could remain friends. That the thought of losing me was really sad and that it didn't have to be this way.

 

This was a couple of months after she left me (which was a few days after my dad passed away). By this time we had already filed divorce papers. I replied to my wife's latest message, which ended up being the last time she heard from me. I explained what happened, and that I was being looked over as a precaution because the blow to my head was severe. And I attached a picture of the car. I told her that in the event that anything happened to me that I was at peace with myself and with her.

 

Her reply was: "OMG, So nice to hear back from you. I had a close call myself, this guy I'm dating tried to rape me on our last date. It was so scary. Just please don't tell my parents or else they won't let me continue dating him".

 

My mother was with me when I read this message. She saw tears rolling down my eyes. And told me something that comforted me:

 

"Your dad and I lived together for 40 years, and split for the past 2. You know he cheated on me several times and how hurtful that was to me. You know how impossible I made his life due to that as well. But regardless of all the screaming between us and the arguments, if either of us were ever in danger or in a hospital we would be there for one another no matter what. This woman has never cared about you. I hope one day you understand that she deceived you and that your affection for her is unmerited."

 

I finally saw her attention towards me for what it really was: convenience , not love.

 

Upon accepting that she never loved me, I was able to take the next steps towards recovery. But that didn't happen until months later.

[Downtown]

Upon accepting that she never loved me, I was able to take the next steps towards recovery.

Ralph, I'm so sorry to hear you recently lost your Dad. Whereas losing your exW turned out to be a real blessing, losing your Dad is one of the worst things that can happen to a person. Certainly, that has been my experience.

 

While it is possible you married a BPDer who never loved you, that is very unlikely in my opinion. Like young children, high functioning BPDers generally are very passionate and fall in love very deeply. Yet, because they typically have the emotional development of a four year old, untreated BPDers cannot love in the mature way that is essential for sustaining close adult relationships. Moreover, because they cannot tolerate experiencing strong mixed feelings, BPDers typically flip between loving you and devaluing you.

 

While they are devaluing you ("splitting you black"), their conscious minds are completely out of touch with those loving feelings. Indeed, it is common for them to say -- when in such a state -- that they NEVER loved you at all. "Rewriting history" in that way is one of the hallmarks of BPDer behavior. This black-white way of thinking is why BPDer love -- being intense but sporadic -- is said to be "a mile wide and an inch deep."

 

Yet, if you truly believe your exW NEVER loved you at all, then you likely are not describing the warning signs for BPD but, rather, those for NPD (narcissism) or ASPD (sociopathy). Whereas BPDers are capable of loving, full-blown narcissists and sociopaths are not. Moreover, whereas BPDers are emotionally unstable, narcissists and sociopaths generally are very stable.

 

I mention this distinction, Ralph, because the two blog articles by Sheri Schreiber that you cite actually fail to make such a distinction. Indeed, Schreiber refers to BPDers, narcissists, and sociopaths interchangeably and treats them like they are all the same thing. She mistakenly describes BPDers, for example, as though they are deceitful, manipulative, spiders who spin webs to trap you while they lie in wait for their prey. While that may accurately describe a sociopath, it is utter nonsense when applied to a BPDer.

 

Although Schreiber is not a licensed therapist, there nonetheless is one blog article of hers which I generally do like. It is not about BPDers but, rather, about excessive caregivers like you and me. It explains how, during our childhood, we developed a desire to be needed (for what we can do) that far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are).

[Ralph79]

Hmm, I will have to evaluate a lot of material you just linked me. Thank you, I'm always open to suggestions that might provide a more complete point of view.

 

I'll tell you a little bit about how I became the type of man I am today:

 

- Extremely conservative mother (who expected me never to get married so I would take care of her, just as her youngest brother took care of her mom. It was a family tradition. My grandmother was supposed to be her mothers caretaker, but she got married and disowned. My grandmother lived in a ridiculously rich family, and ironically she continued the tradition).

 

- Extremely liberal dad, a bit of a "bad boy" growing up due to losing his mother when he was 8 years old, so he was very street-wise by the time he met my mother. My dad was a womanizer. He was a work-a-holic.

 

So you can imagine the culture clash I grew up in. Being the youngest, I was overprotected by my mother and I grew up very naive and insecure. Yes I do have the Knight-in-shining armor complex which I attribute to "it" filling the void my own insecurities left within me, that stemmed from being teased and bullied by my siblings and friends due to that over protection that surrounded me.

 

Now, in regards to my x-wife and my beliefs I can tell you the following:

 

Before I met her she was involved with 2 BF's with clashing personalities going back and forth between them 3 times. One treated her nicely, the other one treated her like crap. Once the bad guy apologized, she would breakup with the nice guy and go back to the bad guy until his next outburst.

 

She had a father who was drunk 90% of the time he was at home. A drug addicted brother attached to a woman that stabbed him with a dagger and did property damage to their household. (They lived in the same house as my inlaws), and a very promiscuous sister.

 

Here's a basic rundown of who she was:

 

- She would claim she didn't have many friends because they were all beneath her intellectual level. She claimed this was the reason she broke off with her BF's as well. She also claimed everyone she met after marrying me was stupid. Ironically she wasn't very bright. (i.e.: She couldn't tell you which was more , 1/4 or 2/5 , even while holding a calculator).

 

- She would be extremely emotional at the beginning. She would attach herself to me and I could see despair in her eyes if I told her I was gonna be out of the house due to out of town work for more than a day. I would have to bring her with me.

 

- She would claim my family was trying to harm her. Accused my mom of putting poison on her food and my siblings of being ***holes. I basically disconnected myself from my family in everything unrelated to business. It was just me and her.

 

- She would be extremely emotional about her mother which she was incredibly attached to, but hated the rest of her family.

 

- Everything I bought her , she pretty much discarded it. Even if new. She would ask me to get her supplies for new activities like painting, drawing, tailoring, cooking, etc. I threw away boxes and boxes of stuff she used 1 day and gave up on.

 

With that said, I think this is what happened:

 

a) She thought I was a good catch. There was attraction between us, but not "love". I felt overprotective of her from the start. And she practically agreed to marry me after our 3rd date. We got married less than half a year after meeting each other and we only went out on 10 dates (probably less).

 

b) She confessed about crying nonstop on her wedding for her xBF (the nice one), and her mom confirmed this years later. My xW pulled it together telling herself "It's just marriage. There's always divorce and I'll get a penny or two out of it. My xBF will be waiting".

 

c) My xW tried VERY hard to fall in love with me. Years ago I would've said she was in love. But looking back, I can SEE the fake emotions I couldn't see before. My brother used to tell me : "She's sitting on your lap when eating in a restaurant with us, feeding you food ... don't you see how messed up that is??? You guys are not teenagers. You are married adults. She's either mentally ill, or faking it, because nobody is THAT lovey-dovey. Don't be a fool".

 

d) She couldn't break up with me. I never gave her a motive. And we were expecting a kid after 2 years of marriage. However everything came crashing down after that. When she left me the first time, she claimed she aborted the kid. It's wasn't a miscarriage. I figured it was crazy talk, until I dropped off her stuff at her house, and her mom told me she recommended an abortion clinic to save her daughters life. She said my xw threatened to kill herself if she didn't get rid of the kid.

 

e) She couldn't deal with the scrutiny that everyone besides her mom made her go through. Her xBF didn't have a place for her to stay, so she came back to me, pleading for a chance. Saying she understood how much I meant to her and how incredible I was. I told her I had forgiven her and asked her to come home. Unfortunately, once she settled back in with me, my father passed away. The inheritance thing didn't go the way she expected, and after agreeing to go to counseling the therapist made her confess that she only came back and told me the "great husband speech" because she couldn't deal with her siblings and couldn't risk me saying no. But she was ready to go back with her newfound wisdom from seeing this counselor and was determined to make things work with her xBF once more.

 

Call it narcissistic or BPD, all I know is the happy moments in my marriage were to date the happiest moments in my life. And expectedly the bad moments have been the darkest.

 

I don't think my xwife ever meant to harm me. In fact she didn't want any money at the end (which was the perk to marrying me from the start). But she will not hesitate to humiliate and ruin people in her quest for instant gratification.

 

Aside from the fact that she was been with other men by now, which granted , as a divorced and very beautiful person, it's to be expected... I'm convinced I don't want her back in my life if she ever were to ask for another chance due to all the chaos. It would be a waste of an effort to try to make things work with someone like that. To be honest I'm also convinced she won't ever ask again.

 

I find it insulting to get emails from her giving me updates on her life and still asking to be friends. I've started deleting them w/o reading them now. I feel better about it.

 

P.S. sorry for hijacking your thread jimmy1968 lol

[Downtown]

Call it narcissistic or BPD, all I know is the happy moments in my marriage were to date the happiest moments in my life. And expectedly the bad moments have been the darkest.

Ralph, you now seem to be describing the warning signs for both -- primarily BPD signs together with strong NPD traits. Keep in mind that PDs (personality disorders) are not diseases. Rather, they are merely groups of behavioral traits that are commonly seen occurring together in dysfunctional people.

 

It therefore is not uncommon for a person to exhibit both BPD and NPD. (Indeed, the vast majority of people diagnosed with having one PD also are diagnosed as having at least one other PD as well. Importantly, this does not imply BPD = NPD (as Schreiber implies) but, rather, that a person is exhibiting strong traits of both disorders. A recent large-scale study (of nearly 35,000 American adults) found that nearly 40% of full-blown BPDers also exhibit full-blown narcissism -- and vice versa. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.