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Separation: Complicated After Two Decades


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Okay, first I am here mainly to talk/vent with people about my life. Overall, my support system is pretty much non-existent and I need some emotional support and not divorce advice. Any advice should be aimed at helping me deal with the reconciliation of our marriage or emotional support. I know I have been damaged, don't deserve it and should probably move on. I am not ready/able to at this moment and want to give her a chance. My/our situation is rather unique so I cannot delve into too many personal details or I will be instantly recognized by anyone that knows me. So here is what is going on.

 

 

(Background)

I met my wife in the mid-nineties in high school. Instant connection and our relationship escalated from there. She got pregnant and we married late nineties. Fast-forward and we have multiple kids, and are now separating so she can finally deal with her problems, and ease hard feelings. She has always been a stay at home Mom and I have always earned the money.

 

 

We both had various level of abuse as children. I have dealt with my trauma during our marriage (about 10 years worth of study/medication/soul searching/meditation/formal education) and for the most part am a healthy person except for our toxic marriage. She has never dealt with her issues until now, although she has made some attempts in the past. She is/was a substance abuser. She has lied about anything she wanted to during our marriage. She has neglected my feelings for 95% of the marriage. She has been a good homemaker and mother 80% of the time with the other 20% having some problems, but still better than most "normal" people. I have never cheated, and am 99% sure she has never cheated. The 1% is because of her lies not actual facts or suspicions.

 

 

I have been a very loving and supportive husband (to the point of being her b***h with anger problems) and she has very few complaints about me. The most major one is my anger when she constantly argues and fails to listen to me. I did/do have a bad temper and am very imposing and intense when angered. I also am extraordinarily concise and fast when arguing and overpower 90%+ of people in heated debates. So her concern is very valid. The second complaint is that I am not loving like I was during the first half of our marriage (again valid). Lastly, I think she wants me to do more housework, but she never says anything (debatable).

 

 

My complaints are that she is a substance abuser, lies at will, neglects my feelings, ignores me, sex is all over the place 90% of our relationship maybe 0-3 times a month if I was lucky the other 10% like 60+ times a month. I could go on but I think that demonstrates my point. She pretty much has used and abused me and I have allowed it. These complaints are also agreed/validated by her, and she knows she still does them.

 

 

Her issues have been going on almost all of our relationship. I did not see/believe/accept them for multiple years as I was building my first career and attempting to give her the lifestyle she was demanding. This led me to work insane hours for over a decade. I played a part in this, and no matter how good intentioned I was, I failed to force these issues. After some unplanned events, and my personal recovery from my past trauma/mental health issues. I had enough free time to see the problems and have been working with her for many years. Including getting her medication and counseling, which she has never taken seriously.

 

 

(Current Situation)

The substance abuse escalated this summer to insane levels. She cried out for help, I tried to help and failed again. This caused me to force the issue by bringing in semi-mutual friends to assist me. My anger was extreme and we were not on the same wave-length. I am ready to give-up if needed. We are very recently separated and the kids are with her. Communication is a major issue as all we do is argue or fight 90%+ of the time. She has expressed an extreme desire to make this work, but is still being combative and unsupportive 90% of the time. Her substance abuse has stopped and she is now starting various treatment programs. She has agreed to go to an inpatient program if she fails. She has access to 24 hour support from the semi-mutual friends (live extremely close by).

 

 

My problem is that these friends are good intentioned but do not understand how I could be so upset and not more understanding. I believe she is no longer playing the victim card, but feel like they are not realizing the damage she is and has caused. In other words, they cater to her needs (not coddling) and expect unreasonable things from myself. I get it she has a problem, but dammit so do I. She treats me like ****, and I am suppose to understand that it was "accidental". Hence, my asking for some support from outsiders.

 

 

I am trying to calm and deal with the situation. I know my reactions are not helping but I have a hard time dealing with the continuing hurt. I am not attempting to start legal action or make aggressive defense moves. Like I said, we have multiple children and if she takes me down she will go down at least as hard as I do. Honestly, I probably could hurt her more than she could me. Yet, if she works with me we both should have damn good lives.

 

 

So, if she supports me, even if we divorce, I will most likely be able to support her until remarried/dies. I am talking 30+ years. She knows this and I truly love her, but I am still not convinced of how deeply she loves me because of all of her past trauma, substance use, and general craziness. Insane I know, but after two decades I do believe she has a form of love for me. Right now I am on edge, freaked out, and scared that she may implode causing my entire family to be destroyed, when it is completely unnecessary.

 

 

I have gotten and researched all of the divorce advice anyone would need, I could probably handle 50% of my divorce pro-se if I wanted to be crazy. I will ask for help on divorce if I think I need it. However, I genuinely believe that this is the first/last time she has taken our marriage and my needs as being serious. I am ready to elevate this FAST and protect myself if needed, but do not want to put her on defensive mode as she would most likely shut down again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So please fire away with support, or suggestions on how to make this work. Advice on how to insure my needs are met during our attempt at reconciliation would be great. Advice on how to handle her aggression while she is waking up would be awesome.

Edited by JoeCool
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I guess my first question would be (and likely that of many others here) why in the world are your children with her if she has substance abuse problems? I would immediately get my children OUT of that situation and contact an attorney. If she enters rehab, great, if not then I think you have your answer. Your children absolutely should not be with a woman with such serious problems.

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In my experience, to make the best decision, you need to try to answer two questions:

 

1. What's the best possible outcome if this relationship stays intact?

 

2. Do I really want to be with her?

 

I feel like a lot of people lose objectivity in these situations, because the end of the marriage typically means the end of the life we were living and our identities. Especially with kids involved. We resist change and compromise a ton in order to maintain the status quo, even if that means living a crappy life. We think the kids will be devastated and damaged if the marriage ends.

 

I call it 'trying to make chicken soup out of chicken sh*t'.

 

When we distance ourselves from a toxic relationship and view it objectively without justifying and excusing bad behaviors and treatment, we (hopefully) see the reality of the relationship, which is usually 'This sucks'.

 

And upon doing some objective cost/benefit analysis, we can (hopefully) make some educated and reasonable determinations about what the future is likely to hold for us with this person. Unfortunately, relationships often have gone way past the tipping point for reparations by the time we get to the point where we realize we're in trouble.

 

That's why it's important to realistically, objectively and honestly answer the above 2 questions. Once there is so much resentment and unresolved pain/issues/conflicts, the likelihood that it can be fixed is almost zero. However, if you really want to live your life with her, and you truly know that, and you truly and honestly think that the best possible outcome is something that is realistic and worth fighting and sacrificing for, then by all means, go for it.

 

(*spoiler alert*)

It usually isn't. But you, she and the kids will survive, and life will go on if it doesn't work.

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What substance has she abused?

 

Since you state she's always been altered - you don't know the real her.

 

How can you be certain your kids are safe with her, you can't.

 

Is she working within a program to stay sober? Does she have a sponsor? Is she off ALL things that alter a person including medication and alcohol?

 

And don't rule out inpatient rehab. It could help her - especially intensive therapy while she's there to deal with her abuse as a younger person.

 

 

It may be best to give it a long time to see evidence of whether or not she intends to stay clean/sober.

 

But do not leave kids in her care if she doesn't show proof that she's trustworthy with their safety. She should not be driving them if she's altered.

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I guess my first question would be (and likely that of many others here) why in the world are your children with her if she has substance abuse problems? I would immediately get my children OUT of that situation and contact an attorney. If she enters rehab, great, if not then I think you have your answer. Your children absolutely should not be with a woman with such serious problems.

 

Again EXTREMLY complicated situation and cannot divulge too much information even what substance she has been using. However, my children are safe and are old enough (oldest ones in high school) and have the ability to contact me at any point. I did not want to disrupt their lives by moving schools, which is the only option if they stay with me 50+ miles away while I stay with my family. The primary reason again is for the kids lives, as I do not have the option of her leaving our home and me staying there with the kids. The oldest kids have expressed their desire to live with me if we stay separated. However, I am not okay with moving them right now, and again in a few months if the separation does not work, which is what would probably happen.

 

 

Next, she has been a decent mother and I have no reason to suspect otherwise currently. I also do not at this point want to damage the progress she has made. She has been substance use free for a month prior to separation, and has had many periods throughout our marriage of no use. The major effect on the kids was OUR arguing. Now that I am no longer there the house has calmed down. The major contributing factor to her use was OUR arguing. She is entering outpatient rehab, and starting to wake-up. The rehab has been fairly opposed to in-patient as her situation indicates it would be less successful than outpatient. They are with her as she had lost touch with her life. If things progress negatively, I will most likely remove the kids and completely disrupt their lives.

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In my experience, to make the best decision, you need to try to answer two questions:

 

1. What's the best possible outcome if this relationship stays intact?

 

2. Do I really want to be with her?

 

 

 

To answer these questions.

 

 

1. Our life will be SUBSTANTIALLY better if we can reconcile and get these issues fixed. I am transitioning in life professionally, and my future is essentially in her hands. If we stay together and get it to work there is no question that both of our lives will have a significantly better outcome. If we separate and she is reasonable my professional life will remain intact and I should be able to support my goals and also support her well above a "normal" level. If this goes south, I am essentially screwed for 5-10 years and possibly the rest of my life financially.

 

 

2. This is why I came here. I honestly can't answer that at the moment. If she wakes up and starts to treat me as a person, than most likely yes. I have a difficult road ahead of me and she will have ample opportunity to assist and heal the relationship. However, I have a very real fear that she may never respect me as a person, or wake the hell up.

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What substance has she abused?

 

Since you state she's always been altered - you don't know the real her.

 

How can you be certain your kids are safe with her, you can't.

 

Is she working within a program to stay sober? Does she have a sponsor? Is she off ALL things that alter a person including medication and alcohol?

 

And don't rule out inpatient rehab. It could help her - especially intensive therapy while she's there to deal with her abuse as a younger person.

 

 

It may be best to give it a long time to see evidence of whether or not she intends to stay clean/sober.

 

But do not leave kids in her care if she doesn't show proof that she's trustworthy with their safety. She should not be driving them if she's altered.

 

 

The best way to describe her substance use, is functional with bouts of escalation. She has been clean in the past. The problem just escalated to the point of insanity this summer.

 

 

I do not want to disrupt my kids life. I have discussed this as tactfully as possible with my oldest children and they have expressed a preference to keep their life intact at the moment. However, they would prefer to move with me if this does not work. She has been a decent mom and I would describe her as being at least up to an "average" parent. My kids prefer my stability, dependability, and affection as her use, has sometimes interfered with their life. However, currently I know for a fact she is clean and is actively dealing with this. We have never separated in the two decades we have been together. She knows this will be her last chance to fix her life.

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OP, accepting that healthy reconciliation is your goal, here's my .02:

 

1. You apparently are seeking support and understanding. An IC who specializes in substance abuse within a marriage can help *you* with your own issues from this background and assist you in forming a plan of action to effect a reconciliation.

 

2. Be completely certain that moving 50 miles away is not, or cannot, be construed as abandonment in your jurisdiction, even if you are the breadwinner and she is the SAHM. Of course you're not abandoning your family; we get that. The law might see things differently.

 

3. When in IC, work on communication. Hearing each other is exceedingly important, as is talking in language and tone which is received clearly by the other person. You can't control what she does but you have complete control over what you do.

 

4. If you and she have faith or religion, you may receive guidance and/or support from your religious/spiritual advisor. Investigate all avenues of reconciliation.

 

5. Set limits, for yourself. How hard you'll work; how far you'll bend; how long you'll make efforts to make the M work. Be realistic about yourself. Your children need a healthy father in their lives and you presumably have many years left on this earth, and remaining healthy, both physically and psychologically, is paramount to longevity. Again, you have no control over your wife, rather only yourself.

 

As an anecdote, I lost a close female friend (my exW's best friend) earlier this year and her H, like you, dealt with her substance abuse throughout their M, and the resultant physical and psychological fallouts. Her son also dealt with them. H finally threw the towel in (D'd a couple years ago) after 20 years and she left a 19yo son without a mother. Her drug of choice? Alcohol. Lovely lady gone at 50. I hope your experience is far more positive. Good luck!

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OP, accepting that healthy reconciliation is your goal, here's my .02:

 

1. You apparently are seeking support and understanding. An IC who specializes in substance abuse within a marriage can help *you* with your own issues from this background and assist you in forming a plan of action to effect a reconciliation.

 

2. Be completely certain that moving 50 miles away is not, or cannot, be construed as abandonment in your jurisdiction, even if you are the breadwinner and she is the SAHM. Of course you're not abandoning your family; we get that. The law might see things differently.

 

3. When in IC, work on communication. Hearing each other is exceedingly important, as is talking in language and tone which is received clearly by the other person. You can't control what she does but you have complete control over what you do.

 

4. If you and she have faith or religion, you may receive guidance and/or support from your religious/spiritual advisor. Investigate all avenues of reconciliation.

 

5. Set limits, for yourself. How hard you'll work; how far you'll bend; how long you'll make efforts to make the M work. Be realistic about yourself. Your children need a healthy father in their lives and you presumably have many years left on this earth, and remaining healthy, both physically and psychologically, is paramount to longevity. Again, you have no control over your wife, rather only yourself.

 

As an anecdote, I lost a close female friend (my exW's best friend) earlier this year and her H, like you, dealt with her substance abuse throughout their M, and the resultant physical and psychological fallouts. Her son also dealt with them. H finally threw the towel in (D'd a couple years ago) after 20 years and she left a 19yo son without a mother. Her drug of choice? Alcohol. Lovely lady gone at 50. I hope your experience is far more positive. Good luck!

 

Thank you. These are the things I need to hear and talk about. I honestly cannot answer if my end goal is reconciliation at this point. I can say that I would like to attempt it, as she is apparently wanting to as well. However, the feelings are still happening and I have not had enough time to become peaceful with everything. I really needed some type of human contact, that would not be bombarding me with lawyer up. I KNOW what to do if things appear to be going wrong. I have been thinking about this for YEARS. I have researched the hell out of this. I also am totally screwed if she wants to take me down no matter what. I may have hope in bankruptcy, but that will still delay my life another seven years. I need this to work, but honestly at this point am unsure if I want it to work.

 

 

Currently I am trying to get caught up on my backlog of work, as I work from home for the time being. I should be caught up sometime next week. I am planning on starting a workout routine. In addition, I am planning on resuming work on mindfulness (meditation).

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1. You apparently are seeking support and understanding. An IC who specializes in substance abuse within a marriage can help *you* with your own issues from this background and assist you in forming a plan of action to effect a reconciliation.

 

^^^ This.

 

There are so many contradictions in your post - loving husband/anger problem, don't want divorce/researched every aspect, etc - that it's hard to list hem all.

 

You should start by achieving clarity as to what you want and need. Good luck and keep posting...

 

Mr. Lucky

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^^^ This.

 

There are so many contradictions in your post - loving husband/anger problem, don't want divorce/researched every aspect, etc - that it's hard to list hem all.

 

You should start by achieving clarity as to what you want and need. Good luck and keep posting...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

Ok here is some more info. This is almost twenty years summed up into two paragraphs. We were in high school when we got together and she is my first love/serious relationship, and she only had a couple of moderate but not sexual relationships before me.

 

 

Yes I know I am all over the place. When you have tried damn near everything to make it work and the other person shuts down it is hard. Also I am talking around 20 years of relationship here, there are many different stages in that time. My anger issue started about 6 years into the relationship after I had attempted to make it work. She was not really having a substance problem until around then. She was in denial about past abuse in her childhood. Our sex life was not existent, she had been emotionally distant for several years, and communication sucked. Her use escalated. This was partly my fault as I had a job where I would get maybe three or four days off a month, and would often work 12+ hours a day.

 

 

I quickly realized it was my problem and not her fault. I fixed the anger after about three years via medication, personal reflection, and counseling. I switched jobs to one where I only worked five days a week and 50 hours. I then made it a mission to straighten out my life. That was about ten years ago. She refused counseling because of issues from the past abuse. Honestly legitimate concerns, her previous counselors contributed significantly to her problems, and CPS failed to intervene. So I helped as much as I could (One of my hats/jobs has been related to counseling/mental health). She had been getting better, but about five years ago when our life changed due to my dream; things started going down hill. (This is when I started researching Divorce, because after 15 years things were not looking promising.) We had to move and still have a couple of moves in my/our future because of my dream. In the past year she has been uncooperative. My anger has returned because honestly we have close to a perfect life, and an insanely awesome future.. She has been forced to see for the first time the problem was her. She has not responded well. I am hopeful, this will end my pain either way.

 

 

MY NEEDS

This is hard. As I said my dream is dependent on her cooperation. I just want to be happy and achieve my dream, that I am 100% clear on. I for the first time in my life have clarity of purpose, and a desire to achieve my goals. I am ok doing this with or without her as I have a lot of pain. She can sacrifice and show me she wants me while I am achieving my dream. Thus either way I most likely will be happy. My problem is I cannot insure my dream without some form of cooperation from her. I could shoulder a divorce as long as she does not go for my jugular, and is willing to compromise at times financially. However, she is a WOMAN and that means she may get emotional and destroy me even though it will cause her life to have problems. A bankruptcy would not hurt her, but would definitely postpone/destroy my dream for 5-7 years. I need my credit to be immaculate, or I cannot make my dream work.

 

 

Lastly, thank you everyone so far. The thought of Bankruptcy never entered my mind until posting here. Talking about my life with you guys is helping reorganize my thoughts. It may be a potential solution and only delay but not stop my dream/life from moving forward. I may be able to handle 5-7 years of waiting for my dream.

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Your life has been far from perfect - as you referred to it that way. Your wife is incapable of fulfilling her role as wife and mother if she doesn't stay sober. But that's up to her. Any attempt to control her is backwards for her recovery.

 

You may need to wait it out a year or two to see if she changes everything. It is a program of change.

 

Normally, a sponsor would encourage her to work the steps, staying sober while doing so. She needs intensive trauma counseling to work THROUGH her abuse to the OTHER side (which may be the reason she needs to cover up the pain by getting numb). And if your kids are school age she needs to work! That way she feels good about herself...and becomes more independent (especially if you divorce).

 

You don't know the REAL version of her! You may not even like that real her. Who knows? But if you give her time to DO her step work, get counseling, start sponsoring others and get a job your life is likely to look opposite than it does now.

 

 

 

Give her room to find her way - a way that works for her.

 

And you - have you been going to Al-Anon meetings? You should.

 

And get a refresher course on your anger issues - that anger won't help anyone in your house.

 

And since your kids feel more "safe" with you - move them in with you. Kids needs to feel safe and protected and Mom hasn't provided that so far.

 

She has a LOT of repair work to do in order to EARN trust from everyone in the house. I'm sure your kids have some residual anger over things they've been exposed to as well - get them help if need be.

 

And your dream - well, that's all great but it may need to wait... You need to see what your wife is willing to do to get/stay well.

 

It's a lifetime of work to stay sober - one day at a time. It can't be rushed by anyone but the person who was sick.

 

IF she refuses to get help to discuss her abuse - in my opinion she's not likely to stay clean. All issues must be addressed with brutal honesty or she won't get well.

 

You can't make her wake up...so allow her the grace and room to show you if she intends to or not.

 

 

You've waited 20 years (which I can't fathom why you didn't have a boundary sooner) - so what's another year or two now?

 

Be patient but have a boundary.

 

You look after yourself and the kids - and let her look after herself by getting well and waking up.

 

 

And stop avoiding telling us the truth about what she's abused - the first step involves HONESTY! If you keep covering up her truth you're just helping her stay sick!

 

It's an anonymous board - we are used to crap being typed by folks around here - it's nothing new. But just get honest!

Edited by 2sunny
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Looking over my posts I think my anonymity is fairly intact. I am not trying to hide what the substance is. I am trying to protect my identity, the more I explicitly share, the more I expose myself. I will say I am not a complete idiot, and have implicitly indicated via my posts what it is. That should give enough clue as to the substance.

 

 

Anyway as far as my perfect comment. I was saying our life is close to perfect. This is meaning that if the problems can get sorted out, and she can get healthy we have a Leave it to Beaver type life. You know the classical "American" family/dream. I was not saying I thought my life was perfect. Hell no!!! I wouldn't wish this on anyone, including Charlie Sheen (joke).

 

 

We are working on getting her job. That has been a discussion over the past year, and one I have always supported our whole marriage. I have encouraged her to express herself and find a constructive outlet in her life. She is the one that chose to stay home. My wife is not afraid of hard work and is far from being lazy. She will probably have a job in the next two months.

 

 

Overall, when I put this crap in words it looks insane. The only insane part to me, is to continue on the path it was on. My wife and I are from very traditional conservative backgrounds. Her childhood life was almost cult-like. She is a responsible f'ed up person. Think Robin Williams without the suicide (I pray). Look there are people who are functional addicts. The Substance Abuse professionals evaluated her, and do not believe in-patient is correct for her. Hell she went through no visible signs of withdrawal when she stopped a month ago. She treats her work with respect. She has not treated me with respect which is my fault. She has many things to fix, but work ethic is not one of them. She is also dealing with her child-hood abuse.

 

 

Our semi-mutual friends are within a couple of minutes walking from her and the kids. They are helping me right now in hopes of this ending in the next month or two. Again the kids are taken care of, and it would really mess their lives up to move them to a worse school district 50+ miles from their home. Please stop questioning this, I know 99% of people are in denial and handle this wrong. I am in the 1% that is handling it right when it appears wrong. The professional's think that with her past trauma, it would do more harm than good to take her away from her daily life. This includes the kids. At the moment I am pretty much her only trigger mechanism via displacement of her child-hood abuse onto me. My guess is it that it is my anger. As far as my anger currently. It is of the yelling and walking away type. She gets pissed and starts a fight, I get MAD yell and then walk away. I then have to make her calm down later, and make things smooth over. I am not getting physical even to property or abusing her emotionally. I am tired of being a floor mat.

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Dude - you haven't said what it is - and I'm no mind reader.

 

You're so ashamed you can't even type it here? Your wife will have a

Much more difficult time if you don't get transparent about the issue. Lose the ego - it makes the problem worse. If your ego could fix her it would have worked by now.

 

We know you're smart - but alcohol and drugs are smarter - you have evidence you alone can't beat it.

 

So what are YOU doing to help yourself now? Have you worked through your abuse issues? Your renewed anger problems? Your codependency issues? And your doormat issues?

 

We can't change her. You can only change you. You change and it trickles down to encourage her to change too.

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Dude - you haven't said what it is - and I'm no mind reader.

 

You're so ashamed you can't even type it here? Your wife will have a

Much more difficult time if you don't get transparent about the issue. Lose the ego - it makes the problem worse. If your ego could fix her it would have worked by now.

 

We know you're smart - but alcohol and drugs are smarter - you have evidence you alone can't beat it.

 

So what are YOU doing to help yourself now? Have you worked through your abuse issues? Your renewed anger problems? Your codependency issues? And your doormat issues?

 

We can't change her. You can only change you. You change and it trickles down to encourage her to change too.

 

I am not ashamed, I am worried my wife or friends will identify me, and then I will be not able to utilize this resource to vent. I need to be honest on this board about my feelings. If I am identified they may misunderstand my posts or motivations for talking. They know that my only outlet is the internet at this moment. Next, I have met no person that has the same unique professional/personal history. I am talking disparate fields and interests you know like when they had the Rock play the tooth fairy? Well my details all flip-flop that extreme. I am driven for improvement and will pursue it vehemently. It is not ego, and frankly I wish I did blend into the crowd on paper. I would prefer to be honest and open about everything. If I could PM you I would as it seems very important to you, give me a day to think about it Ok? I don't want to lose a potential resource for help, and that is how I view this forum. I am new to this board and not aware of the traffic volume here.

 

 

No I am not ashamed over my life or my wife's life. Yes I should have left her much sooner, I know that and will openly say that with anyone. Like I said I suffered from abuse as a child, so did my wife. I was able to overcome the abuse, my wife has not. She has been faithful and stood by my side (at times). She has wanted and carried multiple children for me. She is indicating that she will not screw me over if we divorce. The problem is similar to what a lot of women experience in abusive relationships. That being she was abusive to right under the point of divorce.

 

 

Yes, I know I alone can't beat it. That is why I am here. I was looking for emotional support and advice about how to handle the separation. I am attempting to prevent this from escalating. Lawyers have an ethical duty to protect their clients interest and not the marriage. The minute I escalate, I know it will be over. There is no lawyer on the planet that would advise me to continue in this relationship. I have known that for years and kept praying. I am now starting to accept the totality of this situation.

 

 

As far as things I am doing. Well all this has happened so recently I will say there is no way I could be honest and say I am healthy. However I have first, working on my backlog of work. Second, establishing all of the rules of this separation, such as my time with the kids, and finances. I am planning on getting back into meditation, and exercise this week. Contacting some of my old friends that I have not caught up with in awhile, and going out. My childhood abuse is dealt with. The abuse I have received from her I am working on. I most likely will setup individual counseling in the near future. Marriage counseling is a must. Yes I am asserting myself with my wife. There have been multiple miscommunications by her, big surprise. This has had me to the brink of ending it right now. I will not accept anything but agreements when it comes to my feelings and what she has done. It is possible that this will go from reconciliation to divorce and at that point I don't care what I post on this forum about who I am. Basically, I am attempting to reclaim my lost life. Today was one of the best days since we have been separated. She is making progress, and I am as well. The thought of living life without her was not nearly as painful today. So yes my anger is improving, and I am working on it.

 

 

Yes I realize I may be overly paranoid.

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Get nice and comfortable in the world of drug/alcohol abuse - it's genetic. Since you have multiple kids one or two are bound to be predisposed. And add the trauma your wife's using has put on them - it's likely one of them will show signs of extreme drinking/using.

 

And don't overlook that using is their "normal" that they've learned.

 

I hope you can work on things with her - just thought you should be aware of your wife's background and how it can be passed down.

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Figure out the one or two specific things that you want to keep intact if you divorce. Please, recognize that you cannot really control the outcome to the extent that you might want to.

 

And recognize that, even so, you can be ok. I perceive you as more resilient than you give yourself credit for. Sometimes people get defensive and scared, and they try to control the future as best they can especially if there is something scary in it like a possible divorce. You can only influence certain aspects of divorce. By the same token, you can only influence certain aspects of your reconciliation and future together. When you split up, certain things happen "to" you. But you can most definitely handle whatever those things may be. Focus on your own plan, and how you want to conduct yourself. For example, how long are you willing to try to work things out? What does it mean to you to be working stuff out? The "damn good" life that you say you two will have based largely on your professional goals? Or just some kind of healthy relationship where both of you are sober and respecting each other even if you've had to give other stuff up and even if some luxuries or goals became casualties to the effort to repair the relationship?

 

I'd just keep remembering that you are resilient. Reading your posts, that is what I think is missing. Not a criticism, just a perspective trying to help.

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@OP...I have read your post and not so much what others have said. I can tell you this though, it seems to me that this relationship was built on infatuation like most that start off at a younger age, and for some adult relationships too.

 

When you start mentioning anger/bad temper, yelling, fighting, substance abuse, alcohol, emotional abuse, sex deprivation...then it's time to move on because that isn't going to change anytime soon.

 

You can delude yourself into think some divine intervention will happen, but the longer you drag this out, the worst it will get. I know it's hard to accept this because it's not what you want to hear, but you won't be the first to abandon such a relationship for the sake of your kids

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One of my hats/jobs has been related to counseling/mental health.
Joe, based on your experience in the mental health field, would you say you are seeing strong signs of a Cluster B disorder? I ask for two reasons. One is that the emotional instability, lack of impulse control, and anger issues you describe are some of the warning signs for having moderate to strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). That is, the drug abuse you see may not be the cause of her dysfunctional behaviors but, rather, the reverse may be true.

 

The other reason I ask is that, if she has strong traits of a Cluster B disorder like BPD, the chances of a substantial improvement would be very slim. I say this based on my experience in taking my BPDer exW to six different psychologists (and 3 MCs) providing weekly therapy sessions for 15 years -- all to no avail.

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I say this gently

 

 

Why don't you divorce her now? That way you can be removed while she does all the things she needs to do to get sober.

 

If she does the work you can always remarry later.

 

And it sends your kids a strong message that drug use is not ok and it does have severe consequences.

 

And you can be free to pursue your dream as you wish.

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.

 

When you start mentioning anger/bad temper, yelling, fighting, substance abuse, alcohol, emotional abuse, sex deprivation...then it's time to move on because that isn't going to change anytime soon.

 

You can delude yourself into think some divine intervention will happen, but the longer you drag this out, the worst it will get. I know it's hard to accept this because it's not what you want to hear, but you won't be the first to abandon such a relationship for the sake of your kids

 

Exactly. This was what I was thinking about when talked about honestly answering those questions.

 

In the moment, we can be consumed with grandeuristic notions of 'saving' everything. Saving the marriage, saving the family, saving the kids, saving the life we have.

 

And a lot of times, it can happen. For a little while. And then what? Behaviors, personalities, patterns...they are SOOOOOOO hard to permanently change. People, largely, are who they are. And in a situation such as the OP's (and mine), we have the burden of not only fundamentally changing not one, but TWO people, but also to work through 2 decades of issues, pain, disappointment and resentment.

 

When I went through my last run at reconciliation, I had theis gigantic epiphany, and it literally stopped me dead in my tracks. I asked myself, 'If...IF...we can work through this gigantic mess in front of us, what's going to happen? We're going to live happily ever after? We're still the same people. Maybe we're just wrong for each other'

 

At that point, I had done an honest cost-benefit analysis, and it became clear that the likelihood that we could successfully work through ALL of our issues and both fundamentally change ourselves and find happiness at the end if it was effectively zero.

 

I'm not saying this to be defeatist, to marginalized your relationship, love for each other and history, or to encourage you to give up. I'm saying it so that you confront the problem realistically and rationally, and make decisions based on what you actually want and are capable of, and what she actually wants and is capable of, and what's really possible.

 

It's very easy to waste a while lot of time, energy and heart into trying to keep the Titanic afloat by bailing water out with a bucket.

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Just a curious question because you've said your wife lied about everything in your marriage:

 

Did either of you have an affair while together/married?

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Just a curious question because you've said your wife lied about everything in your marriage:

 

Did either of you have an affair while together/married?

 

I think he said in his first post that he had not cheated and was 99% sure she hadn't...

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"My complaints are that she is a substance abuser, lies at will, neglects my feelings, ignores me, sex is all over the place 90% of our relationship maybe 0-3 times a month if I was lucky the other 10% like 60+ times a month."

 

"Her issues have been going on almost all of our relationship."

 

"I played a part in this, and no matter how good intentioned I was, I failed to force these issues."

 

"My anger was extreme and we were not on the same wave-length. I am ready to give-up if needed."

 

"She has expressed an extreme desire to make this work, but is still being combative and unsupportive 90% of the time."

 

To be honest I'm having trouble going from all the comments above, to this one:

 

Yet, if she works with me we both should have damn good lives"

 

Your marriage is extremely dysfunctional (as you know) and your wife has a huge amount of issues to overcome. Only one of which is her alcohol abuse (that's the substance I'm guessing from your previous posts). You both have 20 years of dysfunction and neither of you really have much in the way of relationship experience before meeting/marrying each other.

 

My point in all of this is that IF you can reconcile, I think you might be minimizing the time that is going to be involved for this to happen. You are talking like it is something that could begin right away but your wife (and possibly you) has/have WAY too much personal work to do before you can even FATHOM trying to reconcile in a healthy way. You made mention that your kids would rather have you together in the same house, but either way (separation/divorce or reconcile) I don't see how that can possibly happen within the time frame that they will still be living at home - unless you go back to the status quo with her.

 

It's not for me to try to understand why you want to put the herculean effort into this situation which in all honestly is probably not going to end up with you having "damn good lives" with each other. But I would recommend that you ask yourself one question and see if the answer helps you:

 

What if you are not able to begin successfully reconciling for a period of years, until your wife is healthy? Say - 3 or 5 years? Then, after you have put another 2-3+ years into trying to reconcile and if it fails, will you be glad you put the time in rather than just getting out now?

 

Just observationally, the extreme lying and back-and-forth behaviors, substance abuse, etc that your wife is dealing with make me think of bipolar disease (or a cluster B disorder as was mentioned above). These are very, very difficult things for a partner to live with.

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Joe, based on your experience in the mental health field, would you say you are seeing strong signs of a Cluster B disorder? I ask for two reasons. One is that the emotional instability, lack of impulse control, and anger issues you describe are some of the warning signs for having moderate to strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). That is, the drug abuse you see may not be the cause of her dysfunctional behaviors but, rather, the reverse may be true.

 

The other reason I ask is that, if she has strong traits of a Cluster B disorder like BPD, the chances of a substantial improvement would be very slim. I say this based on my experience in taking my BPDer exW to six different psychologists (and 3 MCs) providing weekly therapy sessions for 15 years -- all to no avail.

 

Although the new DSMV has dropped cluster B disorders, yes, she exhibits many tendencies of cluster B. I have worked with her on dialectical therapy and she has shown progress. I remain hopeful that this will be the trigger to recovery. I am beginning to accept that this is at best, her last chance. I have known this (separation) was coming for awhile. I was (am) living in denial.

Edited by JoeCool
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