Is it bad enough to separate with a young child involved?

[Turtles]

I have a tough decision to take and I am trying to find out from others who went through similar circumstances whether they decided to stay or leave and how that panned out.

 

My "wife" is lazy.

I always thought it was circumstantial. She had been going through some hard time. Her ex was a pain to deal with. Her cat had died. She had lost her job.

But fundamentally, she is a lazy person. Maybe this is due to depression, or maybe to her weight. Does it really matter? I have done all I could to try and help but I am about ready to throw in the towel.

 

I said "wife" but we are not married. 2 years ago I wanted to get married but she was too lazy to file her divorce papers. You may think I am exaggerating but I really am not. She is still actually married to him though they have been separated for about 4 years (we have been together for a bit over 3).

 

She got pregnant after about 8 months together - it was a bit fast but we are both in our mid 30s so initially I was thrilled as I had always wanted kids. She had a hard time finding a job (of course not having submitted any application made it hard to find a job - it's easy to see that as a red flag in retrospect but like I said at the time it seems circumstantial), but I make pretty good money and felt having a stay at home mom would be beneficial for the child so I told her to stay. She pretty much slept through the entire pregnancy - she would get up at 2pm, watch TV for a couple of hours, take a nap, get up to eat then go back to bed. I was excited to be able to support her - I cooked, did the laundry, gave her a massage every night, went to every OB appointment. I was still working about 50-60h per week but working from home made it easy for me to adjust my schedule, I knew once the baby was born she would make up for all the sleep she took now and be so busy taking care of him.

 

The baby was born and of course I kept most of the responsibilities in the household because she was tired from childbirth, I woke up at night to feed him, during the day I worked on the computer with him sleeping in my lap while she was asleep in bed. To make a long story short things didn't change, the child is now almost 2, but she still spends most of her time sleeping, watching TV, reading. I do most of the caretaking, feeding him, bathing him, changing him, tucking him in at night and reading him a story, playing with him during the day (at least a little bit when I can get the time - I still work full time). She gets up at 11 then lie down on the couch for the rest of the day. Her idea of taking care of him is to wedge him between her legs when he is fussy while she reads or watches TV and feed him some pretzels or candy. At best I feel she is a baby sitter and not a very good one at that. We have had numerous talks about it but not much good has come out of it except she feels "inadequate" and I feel like I am constantly expecting too much. But I resent her so much - I would have liked to have a second child but obviously impossible now, I resent her for that. He can't talk or walk yet and I resent her for not spending more time working with him on that. I feel if she wasn't there, I could hire a nanny to take care of him, or even get my mother to move in (he is the only grandchild on my side), and he would be better of? And I feel like her laziness is a terrible example for him. I know I can't build a life with someone who is so despondent - I feel like I am taking care of 2 kids.

 

But we mostly get along... we have outings about once a week with the child (she has never once taken him out by herself during the day, though I sometimes do). I believe it is best for a child to be raised by both parents. And sometimes they cuddle together and he looks so happy with his mom. So would it be fair to take that away from him? What if I have to put him in daycare, will that be worse for him than being at home with a mom who won't pay attention to him? As little as she does, it still is better than nothing. I am also scared that she may try and keep custody of him - not so much because of losing him full time, but because I know how unfit she is as a mother. With me working full time it would probably be easy for her to justify getting custody, I would have to rely on her being sensible enough to realize that is not the best for him. Certainly the easiest path is to stay together, I am just trying to find out what is best for the child.

[bentleychic]

The easy path is not always to stay together. Kids are not always better off in a two family home. That's a myth.

 

If you want to leave, leave. If she's as lazy as you say, perhaps she'd willingly give up custody of him.

 

The best thing I ever did was divorce the father of my children, for different reasons. They are definitely better off for it, too. Life is too short to remain unhappy.

[jakrbbt]

I don't know why people always assume that if they work full time, the other, non-working parent will get custody. At least in my state, that is a myth. Not only according to the statutes guiding courts on awarding custody, but also according to the statistics and what courts actually do, you are not going to lose custody JUST because you work full-time and the other parent does not work. Sometimes ppl think that happened to them, because the stay-at-home got custody-- when really, in their cases, the court was trying to maintain some stability in the child's life where the kid is not used to being taken care of by the working parent at all. And courts don't assume that that's the case juts because you work full-time. After divorce, most courts contemplate that both parents will work. How do you think it will sound to a judge if your wife says, "I don't want to work because I want to stay home with the baby, so have my ex-husband pay me alimony and child support so I can stay home full-time?" The stay-at-home parent is a luxury that can come with marriage, and no one is entitled to it after divorce. And I don't even know how alimony can ever be awarded when you were not married, but I'm not a divorce attorney. Talk to a lawyer about the custody concern.

 

I'm not saying you "should" break up. But you have to do something. Will your wife be OK with a few hours of daycare a week? Sounds like your toddler is at home with one parent working and the other watching TV. He could maybe use some little friends at daycare.

 

I do think that those moments snuggling with mommy are precious and important. And he will still have those if you break up.

 

Also, ask yourself what chores and day care you really do. I don't doubt you, but I will tell you that (my marriage counselor told us) most spouses think that they do 80% of the work. Now, maybe when kid's mother is parenting, you don't think of it as parenting because it is just so much more shall we say low-key than what you do with the child. But write down the time with child, the childcare tasks, and the household and administrative chores. It will take about a half hour per day or less-- and I know that that is a lot. But it will make you feel a lot better either way. Either you will see that yes, you do a damn lot and you feel good about yourself and you have it verified, or you will see that she picks up more slack than you'd thought, and therefore life will be harder post-breakup than you might have realized.

 

It may also help with a custody case.

 

Also, it sounds like you haven't really explored the depression question? Depression is a TOUGH one. It can really tear apart the family, and sometimes the sufferer won't admit they have any depression. But it is treatable, and plenty of people get treatment and function much better afterward. Have you talked to her about seeing a doctor? Will she be receptive to a kind of "I love you and hate to see you suffering, let's go see a doctor, I'm here for you" kind of talk? She is your child's mom, and whatever happens with you two, you're going to have a stake in her getting better.

 

But no, daycare would not be at all bad, plenty of superbly well-adjusted children were in full-time daycare from infancy. What is more important is that he actually gets frequent time with mom and dad. Before the age of, say, 3, you probably don't want him going more than a day and a half without seeing each parent. But that doesn't mean he has to spend most hours with the parent or that daycare detracts from his bonding. He knows who Mommy is. Day care will not take that from him at all. On the other hand, as far as whether it's bad for him to be with couch-potato mom all day, I'm not sure about that. I know I'd worry, but ask a child expert.

 

The difficulty of breaking up over differences in parenting is, when it's the other parent's time with the child, you still have no say in what happens. But I think you all will be ok whether you stay together or not. You have a few avenues to pursue. I'd start with very part-time day care, and some depression treatment if possible. Good luck, keep posting.

Edited August 27, 2014 by jakrbbt

[Turtles]

Thank you so much for the insightful post, it gave me a lot to think about.

 

Another wrench in this is that her family lives about 4h away and most likely that is where she would have to end up, at least temporarily, if we split up. This is a long distance for co-parenting, certainly if we want the child to still see each parent every 2-3 day. I would hope once she can't so completely depend on me she would snap out of her spell and actively look for a job but who knows. She has a college degree and has held a job successfully in the past so it's not like she is a complete loser, she just acts like one. In her defense there are not a whole lot of options due to where we live (which is another reason I was not offended by her wanting to be a stay at home mom).

 

I may have to wait until he can at least start pre-school. Daycare options before 2 are very limited here, we are in a rural area, I have thought that if we split up I would probably have to leave my house behind and move to a metropolitan area. My best hope right now is actually to move closer to my family (with her, but if I was within driving distance of my family I could get a lot of support for him). It just breaks my heart to see that little boy play by himself all day while his mommy is relaxing and I don't know what to do about it. He loves being read stories, sang to and played with and it is beyond my comprehension that she has no interest in doing any of that with him. I have talked to her about this and the best that has accomplished is her crying that she feels like a bad mother. I want to yell that she IS a bad mother but I feel that would not help any. She is not abusive, just utterly neglectful.

 

Thank you for reading my rant, I guess it helps to get some of it off my chest.

[Mirages]

Daycare in my opinion is a good environment. The kid must exit his comfort zone, and be distracted. 100% parental enmeshment can have problems. My feelings are ditto for homeschooling; against it.

 

Her family is 4h away, that is a bit one. An attorney might better speculate what will become of that, along with your special common law issue. Part of me says switch kid every 14 days, to negate the distance effect, that is a local trend issue to sort out.

 

I remained in am marriage for over a decade in a similar situation, after kids it became necessary to part, her lazyniess (and abuse) grew stronger. Not sure you can rationalize staying in a marriage that you are not inspired to be in. Ever seen 80 year old couples bicker? I know several, the problem does not resolve itself. If you are in a position to remain inspired to try something new to fix the rel, more power to you.

 

Daycare: In rural areas there are plenty of unemployed 60-75 year old grandmas who will do a great job, f.y.i.

[amaysngrace]

What do you mean he is two years old and doesn't walk or talk yet?

 

Does he see a pediatrician regularly?

[Turtles]

What do you mean he is two years old and doesn't walk or talk yet?

 

Does he see a pediatrician regularly?

 

He is not quite 2 yet, and he was born 7 weeks early, so he has a bit of slack. But he gets visits from specialists 1ce a week, during which the mom puts on a show and acts like she is totally on board, mother of the year. They give us a bunch of "exercises" to do with him (really just ways to play with him that are developmentally constructive for him) Sometimes she will join in if she sees me do his exercises with him (I try to do at least 1.5h a day) but on her own, she gets frustrated after a few minutes (and I usually have to prompt her numerous time to even try that). So yeah, I know it's not fair because some of this just can't be helped and he has some limitations that we can't do anything about, but internally I blame her for the delays, and even for not taking better care of her body during the pregnancy. She was very on board with exercising and eating healthy (at least making an effort, like running with me once in a while and cutting the sodas) but that flew out the window the minute she got pregnant. Well, she has to at least eat a healthy dinner, since I cook that, but it doesn't help when she spends the rest of the day eating pretzels on the couch.

 

I realize how that sounds coming from a man and you probably think "Oh, you don't know anything of what it's like, carrying another life inside of you and being ravaged by hormones", and that's true, I don't.

 

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a bitch fest against her, I just wanted to try and relay my level of frustration and disappointment.

 

 

Daycare in my opinion is a good environment. The kid must exit his comfort zone, and be distracted. 100% parental enmeshment can have problems. My feelings are ditto for homeschooling; against it.

 

Her family is 4h away, that is a bit one. An attorney might better speculate what will become of that, along with your special common law issue. Part of me says switch kid every 14 days, to negate the distance effect, that is a local trend issue to sort out.

 

I remained in am marriage for over a decade in a similar situation, after kids it became necessary to part, her lazyniess (and abuse) grew stronger. Not sure you can rationalize staying in a marriage that you are not inspired to be in. Ever seen 80 year old couples bicker? I know several, the problem does not resolve itself. If you are in a position to remain inspired to try something new to fix the rel, more power to you.

 

Daycare: In rural areas there are plenty of unemployed 60-75 year old grandmas who will do a great job, f.y.i.

 

 

I may look in the daycare again but very leery of the family child care (in-home daycare) which is my only option around here right now - her mother actually did that for a living at one point and I know for a fact all she did was plant the kids in front of the tv and throw them pop tarts every 3h. But I 100% agree he needs contact with other kids as soon as possible.

 

The 14 days swap is what I was worried about because I don't trust her to be with him for 2 weeks but maybe my fears are exaggerated and it would help for him to have his cousins (2 year older) company.

 

Thank you again for the insights.

[amaysngrace]

He is far behind developmentally. Has he been screened for autism or anything or does his doctor just attribute it to being born prematurely?

 

Anyway you can bitch about his mom here if you'd like. She doesn't sound like she is being good to your son and I really don't know how she can take care of him when she sounds as if she isn't even able to take care of herself.

 

If you have genuine concerns about him being with her for 14 days straight then you need to express those when you file your motion for custody. Maybe through mediation you can both come to some agreement that will be in your child's best interest.

 

She make fight you hard though if she looks to get child support from you. Get pictures of her when she is asleep and he is near her. Different ones on different days. Evidence is good otherwise it will be her word against yours.

[bathtub-row]

Having a child isn't a reason for being lazy. If I were you, I'd stop making excuses for her. She sounds like a pathetic mother, and neglect, btw, is actually a form of abuse.

 

The truth is, if you can prove that you're the child's main caregiver, you'll probably get custody of him. If you state that you have a plan to move to the city, etc, that would bode even better for you. It sounds like your son is in an environment that's hampering him. If you leave your wife and get custody of your son, you can move and she can either follow where you go or she can figure out what she wants to do. Her problem. You can also put a clause in the divorce degree that she can't take him out of a particular area to live. In order to do that, though, you'll need to already be in the location you want to be in. So, it would be smart to move before you divorce, just to be safe.

 

As far as her having a degree, she's still hurting her chances of getting a job if she hasn't made use of that degree. It's quite possible that the location you guys live in is causing her lack of enthusiasm about life. Not likely, but possible. It's probably not helping things, anyway. A city is a more alive place to be and it would probably benefit all of you to get away from where you are. A place like where you now live is usually best suited for older people who are ready to get away from it all. There are some rural areas that can be very social and energetic, also. Your son needs a more stimulating environment than where he's at. If your wife were more on board with teaching him and getting him out to socialize, that might be different but this is obviously not going to happen.

 

I'm all for a husband supporting his family while the wife stays home. But I really detest these situations where there's a huge imbalance of duties. I have a relative who's in exactly this type if situation. He works all day, comes home and cooks dinner, etc. This is completely ridiculous to me. Not that his wife neglects the kids like your wife does, but she's verbally abusive, which is worse. The house is always a wreck, she's always yelling or cursing at someone, etc. Why men stay with women like this is something I truly don't understand.

 

I think the best thing for you to do is to consult with a lawyer, if that can be done without your wife finding out, and see what he says about how to handle things. I have a friend who won custody of his 3 sons and he got their house, but he caved in a few months later because she made such a scene about it. The truth is, he ultimately did his kids a disservice because she was an unfit mother. Today, those kids are so mentally screwed up, there's little or no hope for them. It's a very sad situation that could've turned out very differently had he just stood firm on keeping the kids.

 

Also, don't forget that if you do get custody, she'll be required to pay child support. This wouldn't be a bad thing for her. She needs to wake up and smell reality.

[Turtles]

He has had a routine screening for autism and developmental delays and identified at risk which is how we got the specialist visits every week. When he was screened (at 18month thus 16 month adjusted for prematurity) he was found to be at a 12 to 14 month level in most areas, but whether that is due to autism or to the complications he endured during his first 2 months they cannot say for certain until he is at least 2 (though he has a number of factors that point to it NOT being autism, due to the way he interacts, etc)

 

Bathtub we are not married thankfully so that may make things slightly easier (I am seriously considering writing a thank you letter to her estranged husband for not helping push the divorce process through in which case we probably would have gotten married before the child's birth as I thought that was the "right" thing to do) There are a some "mommy and me" type programs nearby, though you do have to drive 30 minutes or so to get to them, but she still drives out 1h away once a week to go to her art class. But in term of me leaving her, no, she would have to leave me, because the house is 100% mine. As to why I stay with her, it's simple, I have not figured out a better way to care for the child yet, though it seems like the consensus here is that he would be better off not being under her care... as she is not actively hurting either one of us and I am sure she does genuinely love us both in her own way I have to be sure that I can improve the situation for him first. Maybe your relative's situation is similar and he is just stuck between a rock and a hard place... though as this particular rock keeps getting more and more barren I will eventually find it worth to jump. I am contacting a lawyer this week to get advice on a potential custody case and keeping a "care log" in the meantime to show the share of care either one of us does. Obviously that is based on my word alone but I can't get real proof of her neglect - the only ones who know beside me and her are her mom and mine, and those are of course biased (i.e. there is absolutely no way I could get her mom to testify against her in a custody hearing, even though she knows her daughter lays on the couch all day)

[jakrbbt]

I am glad you're seeing an attorney. In some states, judges, when considering which parent to grant custody to, will consider which parent is most willing to encourage a relationship between the child and the other parent. Therefore, in those states, it does not serve a person to try to snatch up the children and shut the doors tight against the other parent claiming that it is for the children's own good. The other side of the coin is, if she moves 4 hours away from you and wants the child, she is not displaying a willingness to encourage a relationship between the child and the other parent. This is just one example of one factor in custody battles that some people are not always aware of. So ask a lawyer what things a judge considers. And some states make it unlawful for a parent to move more than, say, 60 miles away without "good cause" or without the other parent's consent-- if both have joint custody. You want to know all that stuff.

 

These days due to the economy, more and more women are bringing home the paycheck, coming home and also cooking and pulling more then their weight with child care and grocery shopping and such. Some people speculate that that is because fathers still expect the wives to do the mom-tasks such as overnight care et c, even when they also are sole breadwinners. You are in a similar boat as the breadwinner mom (I am one). It could be that your wife, like the husbands in my example here, just is fulfilling her expected role. (That is, not doing certain tasks where they never saw their role model doing them.) If she saw her mom watch tv all day, then that is what she thinks she has to do. The reason I point that out is, it can be very difficult to get someone to think outside their perceived expectations based on role models.

 

However, you should start by cancelling cable or satellite or whatever you use for television. Keep a dvd player if you still find some cartoons useful. Don't have ipads either, if you can help it. Those stupid screens really work on some people, and your wife can find other things to do. I wouldn't tell her it's because of her, I'd just say that you have some dispute with the cable company or can't afford the bill or whatever. See whether she'd agree to cancelling tv for a while as an experiment, and suggest something fun to do with the money savings.

[bathtub-row]

You know what? A person can come up with a multitude of reasons about why to stay in that kind of dysfunction. In the end, it's just rationalization. When you're really ready to get away from this person, you'll start thinking of how to do things so that you can, and you'll stop thinking about why you can't.

[Turtles]

Well I did get to speak to a lawyer who candidly informed me that unless the woman did a drastic mess up (like say OD'ing with the kid in the room) a man would have less than a snowball chance in hell to win any sort of custody case and every chance of being taken away in handcuff once the woman alleges being threatened. Maybe it is the area I live in, like I said, it is pretty rural. At best I could hope for a 50/50 custody IF the woman is fully cooperative. Whereas it would be relatively easy for her to try for full custody (and child support) if she chose to allege abuse. Sucks but those are the cards I have to play with right now.

 

So needless to say I am going to put the "leaving" option on the far back and try & keep trying to encourage her to work / be more active / seek treatment for her depression / etc. We are making plans to move to a large city a few hours away and I have to say I just love the prospect of having to move to an apartment because she is not able to handle the country or whatever her problem is. But at least I will be able to find some help for the kid. At least get him in daycare so he is not playing by himself most of the day. I have also a therapy appointment for myself to try and figure out if there is a way I can handle this situation better because I have a lot of pent up resentment right now.

[Mirages]

Turtle:

 

If your fears are legitimate then be strategic...

 

1) Consider looking up custody laws in interesting states to you, then you two move there, and then you can split.

 

2) Use technology to record some of her negligence, at least a spreadsheet with 2-3 sentences per day in a really clear format. You need to start harvesting real evidence before she starts creating evidence of her own.

 

 

I agree that the courts vary, and can be anti-dad in some cases, some planning is in order sometimes

 

So needless to say I am going to put the "leaving" option on the far back and try & keep trying to encourage her to work / be more active / seek treatment for her depression / etc

 

You know I had a marriage counselor tell me that I should stay married because of the financial ruin I'd face if I initiated a split... There is an ethical flaw. Love does not sit on a foundation of fear, maybe for Hitler or Stalin, but not in marriage/rel., ever. If fear is all that holds you two together, then please, develop a strategy and follow it.