How to get spouse to accept divorce and keep from hurting kids more?

[Quilly]

I have given my husband a year to come to terms with the fact that I want a divorce (I won't give all the details, suffice it to say it has been decided, I know this is the right thing to do). Instead of just telling him and going to a lawyer the next day, I talked it through with him for over 10 months trying to get him to understand why our relationship didn't/couldn't work. We also did counseling for a short time. I finally separated from him 2 months ago and have still not filed for divorce. He continues to use every opportunity available to convince me to come home and that if I just "worked a little harder" everything would be fine (for him, not me).

 

What more can I do to help him to accept that this is going to happen? I don't hate him and I don't like having to hurt him, but how far do I have to go to help him through this? I keep hoping he'll come to terms with it but he doesn't and I'm worried about how he will deal with this final blow.

 

We have kids together so I feel I need to know that he can handle this. They're too young (5 and 7) to understand it all and shouldn't be pulled into the middle of it. Unfortunately it seems he must be saying things to them (even though I continue to ask him not to do this)... such as my daughter telling me how much her daddy misses me and wants me to come home. He shouldn't be telling the kids this; he should explain to them that this separation is what mommy and daddy need to do so that we can all be happier... or something like that. Am I right?

 

I guess my main concern is assuring that my husband can deal with this appropriately so as not to bring added emotional harm to our kids. My husband refuses to seek counseling on his own. Is there anything more I could/should be doing?

[Merin]

Quilly, Are your little people living with you?

 

Divorce is never easy, even when you know it's the right thing to do.

 

My wee peeps are about the same age as yours (now) 7 and 4... when my husband and I seperated they were 5 and 2. My situation was different in the way that although it was I who had asked him to move out and filed for divorce, I did so pretty swiftly, and my Ex husband wasn't so much emotional (sad) about it, he was angry.

 

I directed my focus on explaining to my kiddo's that sometimes mommys and daddys simply cannot continue to live with one another. I told them (for them) that I loved thier dad (LOL but really I think he's a jackass) but that I loved him as a friend. I explained to them several times that this wasn't thier fault, they had done nothing wrong and no matter what, that both my ex husband and I loved them and that would never change.

 

Once you file for divorce it is mandatory in most all States that if children are involved, that both parents MUST attend a parenting class and if the minor children are over the age of 5 then you MUST enroll your child in a class for children of divorce. These classes are given to help both parents and children understand for parents the effects of divorce on your children and what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't... and for children it is given to help them understand that the divorce isn't about anything they have done wrong and helping to find ways to help your child cope with the changes in thier life.

 

I do not know the circumstances of your decision for divorce, but I feel certain that you must really feel it is the right thing... focus on your little people in helping them come to understand that it isn't their fault and although you care for your husband, sometimes mommys and daddys cannot live together any longer (don't make it about how this is going to make you all happier, because your husband obvioulsy isn't happy about it, and because your kids cannot comprehend why this is happening, they may feel not so happy as well that this is taking place)

 

I wish you the best.

[Quilly]

Merin2,

 

Thanks for the info. I was not aware of the classes... which would be helpful for us all. I'll check into it further. Thanks.

[Merin]

Originally posted by Quilly

Merin2,

 

Thanks for the info. I was not aware of the classes... which would be helpful for us all. I'll check into it further. Thanks.

 

You're more than welcome;)

[izzybelle]

quilly - unfortunately, i'm not sure there's much you can do to keep from hurting him. do you think that by talking about it with him for 10 mos. and now by not filing yet, he could be misreading that as hope? sometimes i think that in spite of the words we hear, the heart keeps holding on until something definitive happens. i think at this point the only thing you can do to help him accept it is to actually file or to start going through mediation.

 

as for your kids, i've never heard of the classes before, guess my state doesn't have them. some elementary schools do have "support" groups for kids going through divorce. i believe my kids school had one but they seemed to be doing ok and my son is not the type who i think would do well in a group setting. one hard lesson for me to learn is that you can't, no matter how much you want to control what he says to the kids you can't. mine were old enough to understand somewhat and definitely old enough to know that they didn't want to have to take sides. being honest with them helps. i let them know that there may be times when out of frustration or anger i may say some things but that above all, i wanted them to still have a good relationship with their father because he loves them. like merin, i have a similar opinion of my ex. my kids know to some extent now, 2+ yrs. later, what about their father drives me crazy. unfortunately for them, they've discovered most of that on their own. it's been so tempting sometimes to say "welcome to my world!" depending on the lawyer and the state, there are things in the divorce agreement saying that you won't bad mouth the other. not that you can control it anyway. but it's even more difficult to control the tactics he's trying...guilting you into coming back through your daughter. honesty with her may be your best bet but it's hard in your case because depending on how she interprets it definitely sets you up as the "bad guy" ... daddy wanted it to work and mommy said "no". and yes, he should be telling them things like you suggested in your post. my kids knew up front that i was the one who wanted out, i never hid it from them. i know my ex periodically still lies to them about things but it's usually more things like "your mom was mad about..." type stuff, which very rarely is actually the case. he tends to make things up to make his life easier. but they've learned.

 

it always seems so sensible and logical to want to behave in ways that make it easiest for the kids, but until he gives up hope of reconciliation he may continue to use the guilt/manipulative tactics with the kids. i wish there was an easy answer. i could say talk about it, but you have. i did tell my kids that ultimately everyone would be happier, because even though i knew my ex was upset, i had a feeling he'd move on fairly quickly (i suspected he had already) but when kids are older i think they have a better concept of the fact that some things take time. when they're young they may be more likely to view things as happening much more quickly.

 

how are your kids doing with everything so far? if you've been separated for 2 mos. are they dealing ok with it?

[Mr baseball]

HI I have been and will be in this same situation as you. I had my first wife tell my oldest child that her mom and dad couldnt live together anymore so they had to leave soon. She prompted me to say/ lie about the same things when it came up because she wanted the "D" and I didnt. I would never bad mouth her mom and did my best to be friends with her for the child. I told the child I would fill her in when she turns 18 when she would question my side. The thing is that I dont have to. She is 15 now and holds alot against her mom for the decisions that were made for her.

 

I think whatever you do keep the best interest of all the children in mind. You will make a choice for them that they may not like or want. I think if the reason to get out is abuse its ok but if it is something that could be worked out try! I have raised a child that will have scars for life! She has for 13 years now!

[Quilly]

Izzy, in the beginning the kids handled it better than I had expected. They make comments now about the time they have to ride back and forth from dad's house to mine and school (but who knows, maybe hubby planted that idea). It's really not that far (15-20 minutes); the kids were just used being only 3 minutes from school/home. So I'm not as concerned about that. Lately my son has been missing his dad more so we've been allowing him to stay more nights with him but my daughter seems fine. It's just periodic questions about why I'm doing this and why can't I live in the same house again and then the comments about not loving her dad enough, etc. For the most part they're doing very well.

 

I think you're right about the stretching it out giving him more hope. It was probably a mistake but I kept thinking he would come around and it would be better (or likely more easier for me) if we could work through the divorce together.

 

Mr.Baseball, I really wish there was something I could do to keep my family together, but without sacrificing my life and happiness, I don't know how to do that. My family is important to me and I know I should be willing to make sacrificies for them, but I see what a different person I've become as a result of the ongoing unhappiness and depresssion... I don't like who I am now. I want to laugh and play with my children and enjoy their childhood, not spend it trudging through each day, watching them play around me as I sit and dwell on my miserable existence. I was turning into a terrible mother, I know that I was. My kids deserve better and I want to give them a happy, healthy start to their lives, but I can do that if I'm not happy in my own life. Unfortunately their father is not the person I need to make me happy; we're too different and too much has come between us now.

[izzybelle]

quilly, i know we've written on other threads before but since my mind is mush today i don't remember which ones and i'm too lazy to search. so if you've heard this before, i apologize. my situation was so, so similar to your's. i hated who i'd become and knew that the only way to "fix" myself was to get out. i can echo most, if not all, of the things you've said about how you feel/felt as a mom.

 

it sounds like all things considered your kids are handling things as well as can be expected. i think, as part of the process, no matter how hard we try, it's difficult to not let things "slip" from time to time about their other parent. a good friend of mine, whose parents are divorced, told me at the beginning to not worry if my ex said things about me to try to manipulate them. that in time, as they got older, they really would appreciate the sacrifices that i've made for them. and i've already seen that happening.

 

it's not uncommon for your son to want to spend more time with dad. i think my situation was different in that my son doesn't have the typical father - son relationship. i'm the one more likely to do sports related things with him and each time his father finds some activity that's "theirs" it fizzles out, by his doing not my son's. don't get me wrong, they have a good relationship but it's not as close as i wish it would be. and my daughter prefers to be here. and we still periodically (ok almost every week) have issues about what they've forgotten where. but at least we only live about 3 miles apart so it's not an issue for me, it is for their father and he's made that difficult. they're not allowed to invite me in if he's not there. he told them i was getting "pissed" because they kept forgetting things.... not true. like i said, it's close and not a big deal.

 

they have, on a positive side, discovered that xmas is so much more fun because they get twice the presents! of course now that santa's a thing of the past (finally) we'll see!! holidays are the toughest thing to work out but it does work. i do hate having them feel like ping pong balls sometimes as we try to accomodate schedules. his is much more complicated (or perhaps i should say he things it's more complicated) and luckily my schedule is fairly flexible. my biggest message to them is and always has been that i'm here whenever they need me. he gave them grief for a while about calling when they were on vacation so they now each have a cell phone. your's are probably still a little young for that, but it's been a god send.

 

you will continue to get questions from them for a while. my son's biggest fear was that i would stop loving him the way i stopped loving his father. i've always tried to be honest with them but sometimes when i really get frustrated with their dad, it's tough to walk that line.....

[Quilly]

Thanks Izzy, it's always great to hear from someone that has already experienced what I'm going through. There really are times that I wonder if I can go through with this because of the kids. But then my husband does something so stupid and selfish that it gets me right back on track again. I can't imagine how he can possibly think what he does is right or will help convince me to come back home.

 

For example, tonight we had dinner together as a family (I had originally suggested we do this to have some family time each week but am regretting it more every time)... anyways, when we left the resturant my daughter wanted to go home with me. She asked me if she could and then she looked at her father and you could just tell that she didn't want to ask/tell him so I stepped in and said that she was going to go home with me for the night and asked my son where he wanted to stay. My idiot husband says to my daughter "What? You don't want to stay with me?" How stupid to put a seven year old in a position to have to answer a question like that! I cut him off and asked that he please stop involving the kids in our issues. My husband had a lovely remark about how "we wouldn't have to be doing this if we all still lived in the same house." My daugther said in the car when we left "so this is between you and dad and not us?" And I said yes, your dad and I are the ones that have problems being together and that's why I moved out... it has nothing to do with you (kids).

 

How he can do this to his own children is beyond me. I don't know if he is just so emotionally inept that he doesn't know any better or what, but it is so frustrating. I think I'll call him after the kids go to bed tonight so that we can talk about this more. I've been avoiding having to talk to him whenever possible over the last two months so it's probably overdue. I'm going to suggest counseling again for him... if he refuses to go alone, then I'll offer to go with him. If it gets him to go and he can possibly understand better why what he is doing isn't good for the kids, then it will be worth it. I'm also going to tell him that I'm moving forward with the divorce. My waiting for him to get a clue has probably only made things worse. I guess it's time to start moving forward so that we can get on with our lives finally. Thanks for the support and for listening!

[izzybelle]

if i didn't know better i'd swear we'd been married to the same man!!!

 

there have been so, so many times i've just been amazed at his selfishness and stupidity when it comes to the kids, and have witnessed similar situations to what you mentioned. my daughter always feels "stuck" in that she wants to be with me but doesn't want to hurt his feelings. so many times i've stopped just short of saying something nasty in response.

 

shortly after we started divorce proceedings i was still in the "wife" habit of trying to tell him everything he was doing wrong and what he should be doing for his kids instead. needless to say, that didn't go too far. so be careful if you call him tonight. i kept getting pulled into the trap of getting so angry with him that i'd end up saying things i regret.

 

good news is, that's just a phase. i rarely get into shouting matches with him anymore. and he really messed up last week and in the past i would have ripped him a new a**hole! i was out of town and he had to shuttle both kids to conflicting events. soccer game at 4:15 (home so if was just after school), play practice at 6 and gymnastics at 6:45. so... he for some unknown reason thought the game was away, not that it made a diff and decided to have dinner with his fiance instead before taking my daughter to her stuff. well.... he didn't make it to any of the game (even though it's only 10min. from his house) and neglected to pick him up when the game was over. thank god my son had his cell. unfortunately, they're used to things like that happening. they have learned that they are somewhere down on his priority list, as was i. his friends have tried to point this out to him as well, and that's been met with anger on his part, too.

 

i went to counseling for a while, not too useful but i went for about 2 years. he went to 2 sessions and i guess decided he was cured. actually i think he went just to get a script for antidep. and then was done. when i said something one day about still going his response to me was very snotty and judgemental (he's a prof. in a grad prog that trains counselors!!).

 

once you start through the process things with him will no doubt get worse, sorry and the kids will pick up on it and it will be hard. but over time you will find a rhythm to it all and settle in and so will they. i lived at home in a sep room for about 6 mos after we filed. finally got so tired of his behavior that i moved out, so you're already one step ahead of where i was!

 

good luck with your call and try to stay calm if he tries to pull you in. nothing will pi** him off more than if you stay calm!

 

take care of you!

[Quilly]

Thanks for the great advice. You're probably right... when it comes down to it, there won't be much I can do to get him to put his children's well-being before his own anger/dissapointment. If he can't see what he's doing wrong, my pointing it out won't make it any clearer. Evidently it doesn't matter how little or how much education a man has... not many of them deal well with emotions.

 

At any rate, I've calmed down some and decided to wait for tomorrow to talk to the husband. It will give me some more time to process what I want to say instead of being reactionary plus I won't have the added disadvantage of being tired. But I have to do it tomorrow... no more procrastination! So don't accept any excuses from me for not doing it (when it comes to conflict I like to drag my feet).

 

Well, goodnight and thanks again!

[Serenity35]

Wow, Quilly and Izzy, our situations are almost identical..I have 3 boys ages 13,8, and 6. The 8 year old is coping with the separation great, but the other 2 are getting worse by the day. When their with me the 6 year old says things like "Mommy, why are you being so selfish? Daddy misses you so much, he wants you to come home" Their both resorting to calling me the wicked witch. It turns out their father has been using them as his sounding board.

Anyways I have tried everything to make this easier on them, from coddling them, showing them lots of love and affection and patience, and rienforcing the fact that this isn't their fault, but their behaviour isn't improving. Finally, last evening I was at my wits end. The 6 year old referred to me as the wicked witch and the 13 year old called me another name that isn't suitable to post. I immediatly called their father to come and get them, sent them both to separate rooms. Before they left I explained to them that I loved them with all my heart and that I will always be their mother, but their behaviour will not be tolerated and until they can come here and show me some respect they are not welcome here. Now the feelings of guilt of breaking up the family, that I worked so hard to overcome are back. They are suppose to be with me during the week and with dad on the weekends, but as of late that has changed, they want to be with him more. I am trying very hard to accept this, and I don't show them that it hurts me. They are boys after all and Mom's don't always do the coolest things (in their eyes)

The 13 year old is in counselling but according to his counsellor he won't open up and talk about his feelings. I'm not giving up on him, but only hoping beyond belief that with time we can restablish our mother/son relationship.

Their father, up until recently has never been a hands on father (never changed a diaper or lost a nights sleep with a crying baby, or sick child), he came and went as he pleased and did what ever he wanted. I was just there to raise our kids and keep his house. It was instilled by his mother that these were my duties, I wasn't allowed to work and when I did get a job she would call almost everyday and say things like " You need to quit your job and raise your kids properly" I often felt I was married to 2 people, her and him.

I am finally happy and content after many years of putting up with crap, now if only my kids could see this!!

[izzybelle]

serenity, it really is amazing that so many stories are the same. perhaps it's just natural selection, we all come here for a reason. i'm sorry your H has made things so difficult. it is incredibly easy when you're hurt to try to hurt back, through using the kids, through manipulation, through guilt or whatever happens to work at the time.

 

although my situation wasn't quite as bad, it had the potential to head that way. what ended up saving me much grief? the fact that he almost immediately (or perhaps sooner) found someone else. there was a brief, and i mean brief, period of time when he tried to be super dad alone and still at times now (although it's fading) when he tries to be super dad in front of his finance or friends. she wants kids and i know from some of what friends and my kids have told me he behaves like an idiot when she's around. goes from super dad to teenager to trying to show off (then physically paying for it the next day LOL ) to ignoring the kids because she's there... blah, blah, blah.

 

the one way that this helped me with my kids, but not good for them, is that he in some subtle and not so subtle ways let them know their "importance" in his life. they have sadly become increasingly aware of the fact that his fiance has the ability to make more demands on his time and energy. it's been so sad for me to watch but at the same time, i know it's made it a whole lot clearer to them why "mom left dad." no more questions, they know. for the most part when they are with me he could care less that they even exist. just weeks after i moved out and the kids were still very vulnerable and hurt he went on vacation "alone" or so he told them... funny how there's a picture of the two of them from that vacation!!! anyway, the kids were still in major adjustment mode, he left town and had no contact with them for almost 5 days. they left messages and tried calling more times than i could count. he didn't phone until he was on the road to come back home. they were scared that something was wrong and they were so hurt. that was just the beginning for them, but as i said, they quickly realized where they "ranked." and i will FOREVER hate the fact that he has routinely treated them that way.

 

my lawyer warned me when we talked about the shared custody that that's what would happen. that he would want to have his own life and the kids would end up turning to and spending more time with me. he was right on target.

 

i do think boys and girls deal a little differently in most cases. although my son is very protective of me. i've always wondered whether in spite of the fact that i asked for the divorce he somehow knew what i'd gone through and felt like he needed to protect me. don't get me wrong, as far as comments about my ex... i know i've crossed the line a few times in front of the kids. but their reaction, especially my daughter's is to say "mom stop." definitely lets me know i've pushed it too far!

 

don't give up on your son. 13 is tough. my son and i are definitely struggling with the typical "it's not cool to let anyone know how you feel about your mom" stuff. doesn't want to do things as much with me anymore (not that he necessarily wants to do them with his dad) but mom and little sis are forbidden!! we had a good cry about it one day when he was being difficult and i confronted him with it. he clammed up but i knew by the tears running down his face that i'd hit a nerve. don't give up on any of your kids and your relationship with them. i wish i had some great words of wisdom to help you, i don't, except that i think there's an excellent chance that as time goes on and they see and learn more about both you and their father that they will come to terms with what's happened.

 

easy for me to say to not feel guilty (i was there once too) but reforming a family under those circumstances will do nothing but harm to you and ultimately your kids. just keep in your mind that if he's manipulating them to say things and to feel the way they do, it will ultimately come back to haunt him. whether it's soon or in 20 years, they will someday realize that what he was doing was not in their best interest. i know, that doesn't make the present any easier.

 

hmmm and by the way, you're not the wicked witch, his mother is!!! sorry, couldn't resist, mine was vindictive and nasty to me as well!!! that was one of the best benefits of the divorce, i don't have to talk to his parents again!!!!