Broken Wagon Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]Background: I am a 38 yearold male who has been with the same woman for 20 years, 14 of thosemarried. We met each other in HighSchool, I was a Junior and she was a Senior. We dated steady through the year, and she went to a local college thefollowing year while we continued being together. We later went to college together, livedtogether for three of those years, and married after almost 6 years of beingtogether.[/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]Problem: From the verybeginning we lied to one another about our past sexual experiences. After a couple of years I came clean with mysexual history, but I knew she was hiding something with hers. This worried me quite a bit. We had been together for 3 years, and Iwondered what she could have done before or after we met to give me such an eeriefeeling. I begged her several timesthroughout the last 20 years (mostly before we were married) to be completelyhonest with me. She wouldn’t and deepdown I knew it.[/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]After college wemarried. And over the course of the last14 years we now have 4 children.[/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Breaking Point: Two weeksago I felt the need for us both to come clean about our past. We were having a few drinks on our porch and Itold her that we needed to build trust---and that it would have no effect onour marriage. She surprisinglyagreed. This worried me. She told me that she had-had sex with herboyfriend before me 4 times instead on once. I could live with that, no problem. [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]Then she dropped thebomb. She started crying and told methat while I was a Senior in High School and she was in college, she hadintercourse with two of her HS classmates that were our friends. One of whom, I had played sports with forover a decade. It hurt. She had sex with two of our friends while wewere together. Both times were atparties where drinking was involved—but she said she was only “buzzing”. She explained the encounters to be short andshe left the parties quickly afterwards. She rationalized that she had heard things about me, and she submitted totheir advances.[/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]I was blown away. I remained calm, but I was dying inside. The girl I had married had purposely keptthis information secret from me until we had been married for 14 years and had4 children. Had I known of the severityof her lies I would have broken up with her the first chance I had. [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]It was now my turn. I told her of a couple of flings I had inHigh School while we were together (neither resulted in sex because I put ahalt to it) and a couple of makeout sessions I had in college during the barhopping days. Part of the reason Iwandered was because deep down I knew her sexual history was moresubstantial than mine. Duringeach of these incidents---I put an end to them prematurely because I already had a girlfriend and was having sex on a regular basis.[/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Aftermath: So here I amnow. Almost 40. I have lost 20 pounds and my body isincredibly weak. I cannot eat. I wake up several times in my sleepvisualizing two people I know---getting to know my wife the same way that I do. It is difficult to look her in the eyes. Even though I tried to get her to come cleanseveral times before our marriage---she lied anyway. I just didn’t know it would be thissubstantial of a lie. [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]I feel like I married herunder false pretense. There is no way wewould be together had I known. I feellike I have been swindled by my best friend out of 20 years of my life. She purposely decieved me during the mostimportant decision of my life. [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]I am not into marriagecounseling. I don’t need to pay someoneto tell me how to feel. At the sametime---I have absolutely no interest in touching her. I have been betrayed by her in a way I neverwould have imagined.[/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]Decision: I feel like I havelost all my dignity. She swears she hasbeen faithful to me ever since---and agrees to taking a polygraph on herstatement. Otherthan my children—I don’t know why I would continue to work day to day. Do I stick it out for the sake of my youngchildren? For the first time, based onthe information I have, can I make the most important decision of my life andleave her? I will be incapable of lovingher in the same way again.[/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Unbiased opinionswelcome. Thank you for your time.[/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] Link to post Share on other sites
FredJones80 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Let it go. Who cares? If it bothered you that much all those years ago you should of never married her until you had your answers. You decided to stick your head in the sand back then and now you want to take it out? Doesn't make sense. Are you looking for reasons to end your marriage? Just wondering... Link to post Share on other sites
Bluesandy Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 If you really love your wife... love her past, what ever she has done.. What is important is that she loves you now and gave you 4 wonderful kids... Don't mess everything up with an ego thing.. At worse, just cut any tie with this two guys.. that's it... I am sure they were drunk as well and they might not remember anything... I did those foolish stuff when in high school, and believe me, they are just jaleous about you to be with such a wonderful girl.... We all have our past, so after so many years, be kind... please... for the sake of your spouse and your kids.... Pardon is a good thing, especially since she told you everything by herself.. she must be a courageous woman..... I am jlaeous of you... but if you continue to see the bad side of the stuff and throw her away, just give her my coordonate, I will be so happy to be with her... Please.. don't act like a jaleous fool... no point... Link to post Share on other sites
central Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 You stupidly had to go there, and your fears were realized. And you said "I told her that we needed to build trust---and that it would have no effect on our marriage." You lied! You suspected all these years that there was more to her past, and lived with it and made a life and children even so. Now that it's confirmed, nothing has changed about the past, except your perceptions. As for what you do now? Individual counselling, to begin with. You'll either learn to deal with this, or you'll divorce her despite having been a good wife for 20 years. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Go to marriage counseling. It's not about paying somebody to tell you how you feel. It's about paying somebody to tell you how to heal. If you fell & broke your arm & looked down to see the bone sticking out are you going to say, don't take me to a doctor because I already know I have a broken arm? Of course not. You will go to the doctor so the doctor can put your arm back together. Similarly, you need help putting your world back together. If since you became engaged, your wife has remained faithful, hang on to that for the sake of your children. To punish her now for something that happened almost two decades ago is not healthy. For your kids' sake, you have to try to put this back together. Remember you are the one that pushed & pushed & pushed for her to come clean. You also lied to her. You promised that if she told you the truth, it would have no affect on your marriage but here you are now contemplating divorce. Way to build her trust. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Broken Wagon Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 First, I apologize for the messed up format. I typed it in word and tried to transfer. Second, thank you for your replies. After rereading it this morning--I was obviously having a pity party last night. Fred, no I was not looking for a divorce. I just finally found out about her past---which I had begged to know for so long. I knew her well enough to know she was lying about something--but like I say--I didn't know it was this serious. I never would have married the woman had she been upfront with me. She has admittedly told me that she kept it from me because she knew we would have called it quits. To me, this deception tricked me into marriage. And now after 14 years of marriage and 4 kids--she has me cornered. Am I not justified to be angry about this? Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Nobody can tell you how to feel. You have a right to be angry but now what? What are you going to do to fix the problem? You can't build a time machine so what next? That's why I recommended marriage counseling. Link to post Share on other sites
Bluesandy Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Am I not justified to be angry about this? No... she loves you and have been faithfull all these years and gave you happiness and 4 kids. Just your ego is wounded.... Just enjoy what you have build with her.. it is past and youth's mistakes.. Move on and thank life for the present she gave you everyday for her being with you... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Broken Wagon Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 My biggest hang-up on moving forward are the mental images of her doing what she did. I was so hurt that I asked for more details than I probably should have. These images pop into my head and make me sick at my stomach. How do I overcome this? I agree that much of my problem is my wounded ego. But on the other hand -- it has nothing to do with my ego and everything to do with my heart. Link to post Share on other sites
Bluesandy Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 We all had partners before to be with our actual spouse.. So don't try to visualize anything, it is pointless, unless you are very control freak and see your wife as a property and then, you have only the choice to go with a virgin.... No, instead of just retaining the bad sight you got, just think that it helped her to get confidence and experience, and that's why she was then better for you and faithfull.... 25 years ago, I met and marry a young girl with almost no eperience at all.. We got three girls and had a beautiful life.. But when she hit 45 last year, she let me and the family for her own life, and had several partners.. Her reason ? She was too young when she knew me, with a few experiences and couldn't wait anymore to have her youth back.. I know, it is BS, but you see, a lot of couple explode after 40th because of that no experience or too few before the wedding... So bless your wife to have these experiences, because that's why may be she has no need right now and in the future to do such moves again... Please, be kind with her and forget those stupid mental images... Pointless... If you have such a big heart, forbid her in a sec... If your ego is bigger than your heart, just continue to be shocked.. Link to post Share on other sites
SmartDude Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 My biggest hang-up on moving forward are the mental images of her doing what she did. I was so hurt that I asked for more details than I probably should have. These images pop into my head and make me sick at my stomach. How do I overcome this? I agree that much of my problem is my wounded ego. But on the other hand -- it has nothing to do with my ego and everything to do with my heart. How to get over it? How about instead of visualizing the guys in her past, Visualize the guys she will be with in the future if you keep being an ass about this. Maybe that will wake you up? Ask yourself is it really worth throwing it all away because she had some fun before meeting you? Sorry to be so harsh but you are out of line now and you betrayed her trust. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
2.50 a gallon Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 You got what you wanted, now you have to live with it. To add to what Smartdude said, you will end up turning over most of your paycheck to her. CS for 4 kids will not be cheap. Alimony is also a possibility. And you will be putting her back into the dating scene. Then there will come the time that you will be seeing a strange car in your drive way. Think of the mind movies you will have then, knowing full well some other dude is at that moment banging your Ex and there isn't a thing you will be able to do about it. As for your social life, it will be very little. Number one mostly likely you will not be able to afford much of a social life. And not many women will want to get serious with a guy who is turning over most of his paycheck to his Ex-wife and is living a life time pity party for his actions. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I told her that we needed to build trust---and that it would have no effect on our marriage. So you lied and found out she'd lied. Why is her lie worse than yours ??? You obviously manipulated her - was the drinking part of the set-up also? Be careful what you wish for... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jakrbbt Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) You are stuck on that one notion, that you feel duped. That is what you cannot get over. That is a control thing. I realize that some people truly are "tricked" into marrying a person where the entire situation turns out to be a fraud. I don't think that yours is one of those situations. I know that you feel you were tricked, and you're basing that on the idea that you supposedly would not have married her had you known. First, that alone does not render the whole thing a fraud-- unless the only, sole reason you married her was because you did not think that she had had that experience. There were other reasons you married her. She is not the sum of that one experience-- it was a secret that she kept, but it's not like she had a fake name and a wig and was really a dude. Second, that one thought (that you'd have left her) is coming from some twenty years' hindsight. Don't be so sure of what would have really happened. Provided that you two have enough of a connection to have gone this far in marriage, and provided that you are not stupid, there is substantial reason to believe that you'd have stayed together or found your way back to each other. If nothing else, perhaps you were destined to have four beautiful children together. You cannot gain control over your past by authoring some kind of alternate past and then telling yourself that it was stolen from you. That's not the way life works. For one thing, if you do that, then you will be denying all that other past, years and years of past, where you actually had a marriage with a woman and had children together. Really, I don't see you as someone who was duped and has it so terrible. I see you as one of the fortunate ones, who married a person and built a life together along with four presumably thriving children. People don't get all that by accident. You've done fine. Even if it must end for some reason, it is not some weird false life that was imposed on you just because your wife kept secret a perfectly typical experience that she had in her extreme youth. You really did build a life together, it wasn't just imposed on you. You probably worked deliberately, and sometimes hard, on your life with your wife and children. The family you have is authentically yours, not some fake life. What is fake, is the alternative past you keep feeling like you were cheated from. You might look into why you could be feeling powerless or needing more of a sense of control over your life. That is what it smacks of, to me. I wish you luck in whatever you choose to do. Edited July 17, 2014 by jakrbbt 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ashleyjohn Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I think you are just trying to find the reasons to end the marriage. After 14 years of marriage, I don't think this should affect you coz now you both are loyal to each other. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Broken Wagon Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Everyone, thank you very much for your time and insight. You cannot imagine how much this is helping me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
PerfectStorm Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Why would you even ask her that? Seriously, not to be harsh but I would get over it. You're a middle aged man talking about high school/college. It appears this woman has probably been faithful to you for the 14 years of marriage and carried 4 of your children. Man, that is not a big deal compared to other people's marital issues. I would stop obessing over it and love my wife if I were you. Link to post Share on other sites
slizl Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 There must be something that you aren't telling us. You need to build trust with her after 14 years of marriage? What's the real deal? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Broken Wagon Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 The real deal is that she has consistently lied to me for 20 years. She has used my ignorant past as guilt to keep me in line...all the while with me not knowing she had done something worse. All this time, I thought I had a virtuous woman on my hands. Not. She has used 10's of thousands of dollars of my family's money to advance her herself in her career---and waited until we had 4 children and the right moment to drop the bomb. Now we are living on a homestead that has been in my family for almost 100 years and refuses to leave. She plans on taking me to the cleaners if I file. Link to post Share on other sites
Chi townD Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The real deal is that she has consistently lied to me for 20 years. She has used my ignorant past as guilt to keep me in line...all the while with me not knowing she had done something worse. All this time, I thought I had a virtuous woman on my hands. Not. She has used 10's of thousands of dollars of my family's money to advance her herself in her career---and waited until we had 4 children and the right moment to drop the bomb. Now we are living on a homestead that has been in my family for almost 100 years and refuses to leave. She plans on taking me to the cleaners if I file. And how would you know this unless you already threated her with a divorce. She won't leave? How do you know this unless you asked her to leave. Here's your biggest problem. You wanted to open Pandora's Box. You opened it and you didn't like what came out. To bad, that's on you. Now, you have mind movies going on, you've lost 20 pounds and the idea of touching your wife repulses you. Yet, you don't do counseling to quote you, "I don't need anyone telling me how to feel". I have an idea, why do you get your ass to a marriage counselor and try to salvage your marriage? Swallow your bullsh*t male ego pride crap and fix this. Or, just pack your bags and leave her the house that your family has been in for generations. At least you'll still have your pride....and a studio apartment. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Broken Wagon Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Yup...in a nut shell....you got it right, she pretty much has me where she wants me. Studio apartment or happiness... What a great place to be. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Broken Wagon Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Hey, no offense to anyone, but this seems to be a site full of males who have been through the ringer. Do men have a more difficult time with separation? We all seem a little down and out on this site. Please don't take it personal...it is just my observation. Link to post Share on other sites
jakrbbt Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Now I can see why you feel powerless. You think that you have to either stay in a marriage against your will, or be severely financially "punished" for leaving. And yes, I can see how the bitterness of those going through a divorce will have you thinking that way. Divorce is hard, people come here for commiseration, plenty of them feel they got hosed. And then, it seems, life goes on for them. They move on, they feel good about it, they feel great, they realize that, hey, they made that decision for a reason, and now their lives are a lot better than if they'd stayed. Who regrets divorcing, by and large? No one ever says, "I wish I was still with my ex because then I'd be living in a bigger house, albeit with the ex." The only people I see regretting the fact that they got divorced, are people who are still in love with the ex and still miss the actual relationship. And maybe you would be one of those-- figure out if you are. Now there are aspects regarding finances and custody that people don't like. Some of those people are more vocal about it than others. Some stay indignant for years. But even those ones, do not usually say that it would have been better to stay married. People go through a hard time in order to have a better future. And actually, plenty of people are really more or less ok with how the custody and money worked out. Will you be? Well, best way to find out is to get the facts. Get to an attorney, rather than listening to your ex's threats and a bunch of strangers' stories swirling in your head. "Take me to the cleaners" is not a legal term of art. Divorce courts are not there to punish or vindicate the parties. They have guidelines to go by, to make sure that they can secure the best interests of the children looking forward and can divide assets according to marital property laws. This is not a regular lawsuit where one person wins and the other loses. It is family court, again, there to enforce people's rights regarding one another and to make sure the children's interests are not sacrificed to the breakup. If you're just angry, counseling can help (MC or IC). But if you really don't want to be in the relationship, then I bet you'll be happy in a studio apartment. In fact I have met-- even dated-- a couple divorced men who lived in apartments while the ex lived in the old house. I can tell you, those guys did not miss the house. They were happy. One of them surely missed the extra time with his kids, but that all worked out for him too once he got over the transition. (That is, he and the kids got more quality time, and then as they got a couple years older, more time period). And plenty of fathers have fifty-fifty parenting time or more. You are at the stage where you have to quit sitting around being angry and scared, and just go gather a lot of actual information. Then, make your decision-- stay or go. You are in the decision-making stage. Don't give that up to anger and fear. Edited July 23, 2014 by jakrbbt Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 She has used my ignorant past as guilt to keep me in line... How, in your mind, has she done this ? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
bigman1 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I get your feeling of betrayal. The young her betrayed the young you. She kept it from you because she probably knew you'd have left. You think you'd have left. Both thoughts are un-provable at this point. I grew up in a strong christian background, so sexual purity were deal breakers for me then. Then. And until I was getting some action. Your wife has "manipulated" you into having the family you have. If you think your family was a mistake, then run away. I'll be brutally honest, I think you are insecure because you think she has been comparing your dick to theirs and you performance to theirs and you think you come up short. A "pure" woman has nothing to compare you with and that comforts you. You were fine with it if you had the more sexual experiences and she had to deal. Grow up. She's put up with your farting, belching, moody, needy, insecure behind for 20 freaking years and now you are trying to leave over some insignificant semi drunken sexual encounters. Insignificant in light of the life you have built TOGETHER. Btw, drunken sex usually sucks. get movie and porn sex out of your mind, cause it didn't happen. I get that it seems like a new betrayal by your wife, but it was not your present wife sleeping with those guys, it was a 20 years younger woman. In the latest vernacular, you have been tapping that azz for 20 years and she keeps coming back for more. I rarely criticize hurting people, but dude, if this old as hell bullcrap is messing with your mind and marriage, then YOU have a problem. Fix YOUR ****. Oh, and if you think she was all super sexy with them, let's be real. Sex after getting all sweaty at a party brings some pretty funky odors. To quote a young dude I heard talking about sex after a party with a girl he picked up, "it didn't smell good, but a hole is a hole". Not to denigrate your wife but, as hot as you found her, a LOT of guys passed on her. As sexy as you find her, those other partners were not chasing her down after, so she was probably just a wet, willing hole. If anything, you should be annoyed that they took her for granted. If they or she were all that awesome, they would be together and you'd be with someone else. You all were perfect for each other and I know a lot of people looking for that. O.L.dating sites thrive due to that need. Be a man, not some feminized or liberal construct of a man but a real man. Recognize that in the selection process, you won. She stayed with you. She loves you. Sure you can walk away, but that would just mean that the memory of some under 21 year old guys from 20 years ago punked you out and you gave your wife up rather than fight. if it was an affair while you were married, I'd get your point. Its not. Edited July 23, 2014 by bigman1 ommitted info Link to post Share on other sites
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