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Read H's Journal [2 year update]


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I've lurked here a long time and many stories have helped me tremendously. I want your thoughts on what you would believe.

 

Long story short:

 

Married for 10 years as of yesterday. H is 7 years older than me, I am 33 and he is 40. We have 2 children together, 3rd (oldest) child is mine which he helped raise since he was 2. We have both worked from day 1. Our marriage has been tumultuous. We started couples counseling three months ago and after 2 months the therapist suggested individual therapy first since my husband has abandonment and trust issues due to his childhood, so we haven't had a couples session in months.

 

About a year ago he hired an employee, a woman I have never met. She is married. I have had a nagging feeling and have asked him multiple times if there is anything going on or if he has any feelings for her. The response has always been that I am insecure and jealous and I just want to start drama, therefor I have mostly stopped asking.

 

Yesterday was our 10 yr anniversary. He came home and I presented him with a gift. He said he didn't buy me anything, and he noticed the disappointment in my eyes. I said I wasn't angry, just sad because 10 yrs is a milestone. He decided to go to the store to make it up to me.

 

While he was gone I had this nagging feeling and I looked through his IPad. I accessed a journal he keeps and it opened to an entry about his employee. I don't remember the exact words but the extent of it is that he was disappointed that she doesn't seem interested in going to lunch with him and that he plays hard to get and she seems indifferent. He states that he wishes she wanted time with him and wishes she needed him.

 

This was very difficult to read. Based on the therapy sessions we attended the therapist told me he doesn't have the ability to be emotional and to show feelings. He is very cold with me, however, I have said these same things to him, I tell him I need him etc, and nothing registered, and now I see these words written by him about another woman.

 

I asked him about him told him I read his journal. He was upset and said he does not trust me and that he has no privacy. He said this is the reason we are in counseling. (When we first were married and he was distant, I read his email. He viewed this is the worst form of betrayal and says he can't trust me since then.

 

He said that one of the things he is working through in counseling is looking for validation from other people, and that this entry in his journal was part of that and that he didn't have feelings for her. He was not apologetic and was very cold toward me. He suggested I speak with the therapist.

 

He suggested he would leave and sleep somewhere else. I did not fight or argue, I let him leave without further discussion. Even though I had a feeling, the confirmation hurts tremendously.

 

Please give me your thoughts. What would you do?

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I sorta get where he's coming from. I used to be the same way. I think when a person spends certain developmental stages of their lives lacking certain things, it sticks with them.

 

For me, validation from women was always a big deal. First of all, in middle school/high school, I had a tough time with girls. They didn't seem to be into me, even though once in a while I would end up having one of the prettier girls in school glom onto me. More than anything, I was just oblivious to social cues, but I internalized that as some sort of measurement of self worth.

 

Then, in college, it clicked, and things went in the opposite direction. I got girls, beautiful girls, without effort. I never had a relationship before my XW, and we met when I was 25. So, that whole time, I could just get whatever attention I wanted from whatever girl I wanted. I got used to it, and it was one way I validated myself.

 

Once married, I was growing up and didn't crave that attention or validation as much. However, my marriage was very one-sided, and I was also aging and having those normal existential and self-worth crises that a lot of men have once they no longer see themselves as coveted purveyors of sperm. Anyway, I started to notice that other women weren't noticing me as much, or paying as much attention to me, and I started to crave the attention again.

 

It didn't help that I got virtually no attention from my XW. It was her world, and I was just living in it, and that was making for a pretty empty existence.

 

So, then I started to seek it out again. Not to get a girl, or because I had any sort of feelings for anybody, or even wanted anything in real life from them. I just wanted to keep 'winning'....but I didn't even want the prize.

 

It was probably a bad idea to snoop. But it's done. Try to move forward, and more than anything, don't make assumptions. Don't assume it's because you're not good enough. Don't assume he wants something else. Don't assume he's going to do anything.

 

You've identified an issue that can easily be straightened out. He's aware of it, so that's good. I wasn't. Work on it together and individually.

 

Good luck.

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My $.02 (these are each worth a penny):

 

(1) If this woman were responsive to him, he'd be in an affair with her.

 

(2) In a marriage, privacy is for the bathroom.

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Grumpybutfun

When married you share a life. There is nothing I have she cant look at or read. Transparency is needed for a healthy marriage because why be married if you are needing privacy to do duplicitous things? Makes no sense.

If he wants privacy, there is a reason. I know there are those who say, people in marriages should be able or be individuals and that is true, but being sneaky and secretive and passing that off as privacy means there is something wrong. You want to do bad things if you need to hide things. I am my own man, very much the dominant one in my relationship yet she is my partner and I have nothing to hide. Sharing my life with her and letting us mirror our lives as individuals to each other is a huge part of our intimacy with each other. It makes our marriage extremely strong.

I agree with BetrayedH...if she was open to it, he would be in an affair right now. You are right to be concerned.

Good luck,

Grumps

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(1) If this woman were responsive to him, he'd be in an affair with her.

 

Disagree with this.

 

I had innumerable opportunities to cheat. For me, all I really cared about was knowing that I could get whatever woman. But I didn't pursue it.

 

Seeking validation is funny that way. You want the validation, and the ego boost or whatever weird fulfillment you get from it, but you don't want an actual affair or relationship. It's sort of like wanting a pat on the back for an accomplishment.

 

I'm not saying he wouldn't cheat, but there's really no guarantee that if his interest were reciprocated that he would have acted on it.

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FredJones80

(2) In a marriage, privacy is for the bathroom.

 

Hey, you know you're married or on a LTR when you can take a **** in front of the other when they're having a bath :D

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Smilecharmer

The validation theory would be nice if he actually was acting normal in your relationship. However, since your relationship is off and tumultuous and he is trying to catch the attention of another woman, I think he probably would cheat if given the chance. It seems like you two just aren't compatible and he doesn't want to be married to you from what you wrote. He is looking for the next wife.

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Disagree with this.

 

I had innumerable opportunities to cheat. For me, all I really cared about was knowing that I could get whatever woman. But I didn't pursue it.

 

Seeking validation is funny that way. You want the validation, and the ego boost or whatever weird fulfillment you get from it, but you don't want an actual affair or relationship. It's sort of like wanting a pat on the back for an accomplishment.

 

I'm not saying he wouldn't cheat, but there's really no guarantee that if his interest were reciprocated that he would have acted on it.

 

I have to grant you that my statement didn't leave a lot of wiggle room. It's certainly possible that he wanted the validation and wouldn't act on it. That said, his need for validation is pretty glaring and his boundaries are loose. That's pretty much the recipe for an affair, minus the opportunity. Notably, he seems to be lamenting the lack of opportunity and quite defensive over his lack of privacy about it. Poor thing.

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TheBladeRunner

Your H's behavior is similar to what I call "The beginning of the end" with my former WXW. It all started when she had a "crush" on some guy at work while also having an EA (I found that out later) at the same time.

 

I agree with the above posters especially when it comes to being open. At any given time she could have checked my e-mail, texts, whatever and there would be nothing she couldn't look at. Her on the other hand.....she guarded that phone with her life. And that stupid FaceBook account, I can't tell you how many times I saw the "card game" fly up on the screen when I walked in......that's what gave her away.

Edited by TheBladeRunner
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Thank you so much for the replies.

 

I discussed this with our therapist today. He said all of this is fantasy and not reality in H's head and his way of not dealing with reality. He assured me that there is nothing there, not even an emotional affair. He said I need to give it time and allow him to work through this with him.

 

I did not feel the therapist took this seriously enough, maybe I am missing something. To me this is a complete breach of the marriage commitment. I don't feel able to trust him. It seems to me that he might have taken it to another level if things were different, but I'm not sure. I do know his attention and focus is not on me.

 

I have made a couple of appointments with lawyers to see what my options are. We have not spoken since then but if I know him well enough, he will be the victim of my breach of his privacy and he will minimize his role.

 

I am at a loss in regards to how to proceed. I am taking my time and thinking things through. I don't know that I can be with someone whom I cannot trust. At this point I don't even want to see his face. I'm not sure if he is coming home today or not, however if he does, I am not ready to talk.

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FredJones80

I discussed this with our therapist today. He said all of this is fantasy and not reality in H's head and his way of not dealing with reality.

 

How the hell would the therapist know?

 

Stick to your instinct.

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I have been to therapist all my life, and this is a long life. That therapist is out of bounds with those conclusions of a person that he/she has not examined. And even if so-called therapist did analysize husband, he still could not draw those conclusions. It would take a forensic pychiatriastrist that specializes in profiling personalities. I seriously doubt your therapist has CSI profiling experience. What a jack azz.

 

On the other hand, you can apply common sense, as the poster, and yourself, have already done. Transparency is a sign of a healthy marriage according to Marriage Builders, and common sense. If you want to have a marriage, it may not be a good idea to put your fantasies in writing. Oh, dear. Dumb, dumb, dumb. What is in his heat and in real life is most like a heck of a lot worse than the little diary. Don't trust this one. Not only untrustworthy, but dumb on top of it. Turns tables, makes it his mistake "your fault," like you're some dummy that is going to fall for that "switcher-roorer," DUH. (BTW -- That's called Gaslighting). Yas

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Your ic is insane.

There's no A, because the object of your H's desire isn't interested .

It's got nothing to do with his integrity or his commitment to your m. He's obviously not very committed to you, and as soon as somebody falls for his bs, he'll be so into it. And it'll be all your fault , because your snooping ruined the M. Puleeeez

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When married you share a life. There is nothing I have she cant look at or read. Transparency is needed for a healthy marriage because why be married if you are needing privacy to do duplicitous things? Makes no sense.

If he wants privacy, there is a reason. I know there are those who say, people in marriages should be able or be individuals and that is true, but being sneaky and secretive and passing that off as privacy means there is something wrong. You want to do bad things if you need to hide things. I am my own man, very much the dominant one in my relationship yet she is my partner and I have nothing to hide. Sharing my life with her and letting us mirror our lives as individuals to each other is a huge part of our intimacy with each other. It makes our marriage extremely strong.

I agree with BetrayedH...if she was open to it, he would be in an affair right now. You are right to be concerned.

Good luck,

Grumps

 

Ah Grumps, I wish you could be cloned! If all men thought like you do there probably wouldn't be a need for these forums.

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I was right, we had a discussion that turned into the fact that he can't trust me because I read his journal and he doesn't know if he can continue in the marriage. He needs a few days to think.

 

He talked to the children and told them he would be gone for a few days. My oldest fell apart, cried, told him he needed him here. None of this mattered, he won't come home to see them. I would not be able to see my kids suffer this way for me. I would stay home until something definite is decided. Having the kids worry for days is heartless.

 

The therapist sees him individually and me individually as well as couples. I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do, seems odd and I feel the therapist is missing the stepping stone from fantasizing to reality and the lack of commitment to the marriage.

 

I told him if we divorce he will have to tell the children that he's leaving because mommy read my journal.

 

In my heart I know this won't work, my heart breaks for my kids. My feelings go back and forth between just wanting to be done and not wanting to break up my family.

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When he tells them about your "worst form of betrayal" in reading his journal, make sure he tells them the part about you getting suspicious of the girl at work because you nothing for your 10 year anniversary and as it turns out, he was playing "hard to get" with her.

 

He stays home and works thru this in MC or you're filing for divorce. That's what I'd recommend.

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chelsea2011

Ugh, I feel for you eyesopen. It must be hard knowing he is fantasizing about someone else while you are trying to fix your marriage. You are a living breathing human being with feelings and you don't have to tolerate being treated like an option. Don't let his moods and fantasies about someone else manipulate you into going against your better judgement. He is asking you to tolerate emotional torture if you think about it. I'd tell him to straighten up or take a flying leap. It will hurt, but you will heal and move onto a much healthier situation.

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chelsea2011

More importantly, don't let him turn this around on you. That's manipulation no matter what that crazy therapist says. He verbalized his desires about another woman...what the heck are you suppose to do? Lay there and take it? No way!

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Thank you for the replies. It validates that I am not blowing this out of proportion and that his betrayal is being minimized by him and the therapist.

 

I told him to knock if he feels the need to come here for anything as he decided to leave. He was offended but that's irrelevant. Is it time to go 180 and stop fighting for the marriage on my side? From yesterday's discussion he gave the impression of being in control as to the future of our marriage. He said he needed a few days and we would talk about it then. The more I think about it I don't know why I agreed to that.

 

This is all so confusing and I keep going back thinking I should've done this or that differently.

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Now he's turning it around on you and trying to gaslight you?

 

What manipulation! A guy does it this way out of guilt. His inability to admit what he wrote is cruel and the fact that it's hurtful is just mean that he's not there to discuss it THOROUGHLY with you.

 

He avoiding!

 

And now he's punishing YOU? What a price of work he is!

 

He knows he did wrong and he's trying to blame you? That just terrible and completely not a reaction that solves the problem.

 

In fact, it makes it even MORE concerning to consider staying with him.

 

That therapist is wrong to come to that conclusion when it completely dismisses how you must be feeling!!!

 

Yes, I'd be considering D too, based on his reaction alone.

 

HIS bad behavior is NOT your fault.

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Is it time to go 180 and stop fighting for the marriage on my side? From yesterday's discussion he gave the impression of being in control as to the future of our marriage.

 

Yes, it is time to go 180. Right now he is in the power seat and has you on the defensive. Does that seem right to you? He's playing hard to get with another woman at work but he's going to let you know if he can tolerate your behavior and stay in the marriage? He's dictating all of the terms?

 

I think you need to switch things up. Have him served divorce papers in his hotel room. I'm not kidding; it's not difficult, usually only costs a couple hundred dollars, and only takes a couple of days. Talk with your attorney about requesting 'exclusive use of the marital home' during the separation since he's left you. If your H changes his tune and is willing to own his problems and give MC a legitmate shot, you can always halt the proceedings, and you'll be doing it from a much better position. If he doesn't, you'll be in the way to the divorce you need.

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Just some perspective. I had "fantasies" too. And I thought it would be therapeutic to write them out. All it did was fuel them and make them more tempting.

 

Guess what, the person I wrote about the fantasies with became the OM.

 

That IC is stupid.

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Sorry to say, it looks to me, by his attitude, and quick reflexes to deflect (rather than apologize for getting caught, at least), that's he was already distancing and disengaging himself from the marriage. Finding contents of journal only only pushed the inevitable envelop - now he can blame you.

 

I agree with poster that said to serve him at hotel. I would also ask attorney to name this journal in the papers, and demand it in discovery. Furthermore, I think a concurrent outgoing letter needs to state clearly the contents of this journal are key evidence in the case - and are to be preserved for discovery (this letter copied to the court - you will have a case number and most likely a judge by then). If he tries to distroy this evidence (whether it's useful in your case or not), he will be in a shyt hole of trouble with the judge.

 

Try you best to recall what was written in the jounal and get it down on paper - that is if you didn't make a copy of it. If you did cop it - say nothing, and make same demands above. He may try to alter the evidence.. In Court - all you have is your credibilty - that's it. This could be used to hurt his credibility, that is why I'm suggesting you make big issues about it - in hopes he does something dumber.

 

You need your discussions (gaslighting) tape-recorded. Get to work! He had his hand on door knob already, honey. Check phone, take home computer to be scanned, etc., etc. Yas

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I think you should take control of your life and your kids' life. If he needs some time to think then give it to him, but put a deadline. Tell him that in 5 days (for instance) he has to meet you outside the house and be open and honest and have a really big conversation. Let him have his 5 days, then demand this conversation and don't leave the place until you've found a solution. You owe this to yourself, to your marriage and most importantly to your kids.

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EverySunset
Yes, it is time to go 180. Right now he is in the power seat and has you on the defensive. Does that seem right to you? He's playing hard to get with another woman at work but he's going to let you know if he can tolerate your behavior and stay in the marriage? He's dictating all of the terms?

 

I think you need to switch things up. Have him served divorce papers in his hotel room. I'm not kidding; it's not difficult, usually only costs a couple hundred dollars, and only takes a couple of days. Talk with your attorney about requesting 'exclusive use of the marital home' during the separation since he's left you. If your H changes his tune and is willing to own his problems and give MC a legitmate shot, you can always halt the proceedings, and you'll be doing it from a much better position. If he doesn't, you'll be in the way to the divorce you need.

 

THIS.

 

You can always stop preceedings, but once he

decides he's out the door... He'll do it anyway. To you.

 

I was a doormat and my STBXH walked all over me. Don't be me. PICK YOURSELF UP, take back your power, stop feeling guilty, and stand in the way of your front door. Make him earn his way back... To your house, and your marriage.

 

i wish someone had told me...

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