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Considering Divorce -- Am I totally sane or off base?


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Hey all,

 

I came across LS a few days ago and have been quietly reading on the sidelines while some thngs play out in my life/head. I am at the point where I know I could benefit from input from some of the people I see posting here regularly, so it is time I put my story up and ask for feedback. Bear with me, it could be a bit lengthy.

 

I have been married over 7 years. This is my first marriage, her second. I was 22, she was 29 at the time. She has 2 children from previous marriage; that divorce was and still is very ugly. We said I love you after just over a week; had sex shortly thereafter. She got pregnant and we were married within a month or so.

 

First several years were very hard. She has a very good heart, but had real difficulties (anger at everyone/thing, suspiciousness, outbursts, etc.). I was likely not mature enough to handle things the way I should have, but stuck through it and worked as hard as I could. I had decided I would stay in this for my daughter and because I had made a commitment. That was going to be enough.

 

About 2 years ago, she got on meds. Personality evened out and really only have maybe monthly or so fights, really nothing outrageous at all.

 

A couple of weeks ago during our monthly row, some things were said and I decided I just would not let them sit in my stomach any more. I travel sometimes and was out of town. A group of friends and I were out and hanging out with some ladies we met. Nothing major, but I clicked huge with one. Nothing happend until the third night in a row, when she asked me if I was happy. I was drinking, which tends to be a truth serumm for me. What came out of my mouth still has me shocked.

 

I said that I was not happy and wouldn't ever have married my wife if not for my daughter. As I talked with this woman, I continued to just pour out myself to her about this. I guess for the first time I felt there was not any danger in being honest. I had been asked this question by family and freinds, especially when things were bad, but I guess maybe I was always too scared to look at the real truth, even though I know now it was buried there.

 

I spent the entire night with this woman talking about myself, my life, basically thinking out loud. Yes, we kissed, and as abhorrent as that is, it is not nearly as bad as the possible emotional infidelity that has existed that night and after. In truth, though, that remains a seperate issue for me. I refuse to have sex with her because what I have done is bad enough.

 

In examining myself the next day and each day after, I have been faced with a truth that is not pretty for my family:

I hate to say for sure, but I do not love my wife as a husband should love a wife. I never have. She does not love me in the way I want to be loved as a husband. I am not sure how it could have happended any other way given the circumstances, but maybe I always hoped for more. We have very different values when it comes to life, children, money, responsibility, accoutnabiulity for our actions, etc. We are not on the same team in this marriage and I am not sure thatwe can be because we are so different. I love my wife as the mother of my child. I have stayed in this because of my daughter, whom I love more than anything on earth. I have thought for years that I will just leave when my daughter leaves for college.

 

In looking in the mirror, though, I have to wonder: Why should I be miserable deep down with roller coaster moments of happiness? Won't my daughter sense this and possibly repeat this self destructive behavior? I recognize this behaviour in myself as something learned forom my mother, even though I am sure she never meant to. It certainly is not fair to my wife to have her stay with me if I feel this way, but I do not want to hurt her by telling her the exact depth of my feelings and that I suspect they may go back to day 1. I am certain I still have resentment deep down for what I feel are injuries of the past and unappreciated sacrifices as well, but I am trying to hold these seperate as best I can; I want to examine the relationship, not necessarily her as a person, because that could come off as a personal attack.

 

I am sure people may comment that I am doing this for the OW. Rest assured, I am very wary of that. Bottom line, I can say unequivicolly that if my wife came to me today and said she is going to let mehave my daughter, I would help her pack or pack up our things immediately. I think that there is just such a disconnect between our wants, needs, values, existence, that I have stayed for the wrong reasons and never been willing to look deep enough to see it. In fact, I think if she had the ability to be truly honest with herself and dug deep, she would likely find something similar.

 

So, here is what I have done. I have told her that we need to examine our marriage; that we have a major disconnect in many of the areas above. That I want to see if we can connect in those areas and grow together; otherwise we are going to have to grow apart. I told her I want us to go to marriage counseling. She was blown away. She got very defensive, even though I was painstakingly careful to not make it about HER, but about US/our relationship. She said I am never happy and will only be if it is only MY way. I tend to disagree with the my way, but I did not want to start a fight over one point, so I noted it and went on. The fact of the matter is I am not happy, have not been. I have been tolerant of my wife for many years. That is a terrible thing to be. I mean, we have had happy moments, and some where we could be content, but I know in my heart that I would not be married to her if not for my daughter.

 

So, my questions to the forum:

 

We are going to be talking again soon; anything I should be saying to better express myself or make things clear or be fair to her?

What red flags do you see in the behavior described above that I may be missing?

What else can I do to try to connect with her; I really feel deep down that it may be a lost cause because I have finally admitted to myself how I feel and I feel stronger about it than I have ever felt in the past, but I do not want to have an itchy trigger finger and go right to divorce. I can live with the money side of things, even though I will be giving up a lot more than likely. I do not want to hurt her if I can help it, and I know I already am. And, MOST importantly, I want to spare my daughter from any pain that I can.

Clearly this divorce is going to be ugly; I have seen enough aftermath from her first to bet that will be the case. Would anyone stay just because of that/

In general, what do you think. Be brutal, ask questions, whatever, but be honest with me; don't ask me to read between the lines; clearly I am not that bright. Be straightforward and I will return the same.

 

 

Enough from me for now

 

Thanks

 

BrandX

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DazednConfused

Brandx,

 

That was a very well written and thought out post. It is obvious to me that you have done an awful lot of soul searching.

 

An observation however, do you think all these feelings would have come to the fore if not for the interest from another woman? I ask because your post seems suspiciously like a detailed version of "I love my wife, but I am not "in love" with her." - Which is a classic explanation for having an affair.

 

Every marriage has it's down spots, every married person gets the blah's. While it does sound like you and your wife jumped into things too quickly, the person who will ultimately be paying for that is your daughter. There is no way for you to end the marriage and spare your daughter the pain you are trying to avoid, however noble your intent.

 

I like the counseling idea, although I have yet to be convinced that counseling is actually beneficial. The key to any marriage is calm communication. With or without a mediator present. You cannot convince her that your way is the best, nor will she convince you that her way is best, but if you are both willing to try, you can find common middle ground. If you can't, then you can file with a clear conscience and know that you really tried.

 

Oh! And put the other girl aside, tell her you are working on your marriage. If things go bad, maybe she's still around for you, but you don't need things like that clouding your judgement.

 

Just my .02. I wish you luck.

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An observation however, do you think all these feelings would have come to the fore if not for the interest from another woman? I ask because your post seems suspiciously like a detailed version of "I love my wife, but I am not "in love" with her." - Which is a classic explanation for having an affair.

 

 

Dazed:

 

In response to above, I really don't thnk so. I have had other women show interest in me since I have been married. I have almost always been tempted, but never kissed them or opened up to them really like this. I am not certain, though, since one can never be. I really feel that these feelings have been there for some time and I have been pushing them into my stomach so as not to have to acknowledge them. Again, though, I am willing to find out I am wrong; I am trying to have a very open mind and heart for my marriage's sake. Bottom line is, though, that since the birth of my child, if my wife would have said she was going to leave or let me leave with our daughter, I would have run so fast it scares even me. I know this with absolute certainty.

 

As for the OW, she has stepped back to a level of friendship for now because she does not want to mess up my marriage. We still talk, which I am justifying in my mind, but may be a mistake. Honestly, though, I think I have seperated it out (and I realize where I am kidding myself on that, but my strong feelings within my own marriage do seem to stand on their own).

 

That is why I posted this. We can so often become clouded with what we want/think/feel, that an outside opinion can be so helpful.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time. More input is welcomed from you and others. This site is a really great thing for one's true self analysis if we are willing to be honest with ourselves and one another.

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brandx,

 

Your story is similar to mine and I felt very much the same way about my marriage. When I first talked with my husband I thought for certain he would agree that our marriage should end, but he didn't. We did the counseling thing (which was not helpful) and talked about it on and off for another 10 months. It was a miserable time for both of us living in constant limbo -- him wondering if/when I would leave and me wondering if I should/could leave because of the kids. I finally realized that what I was waiting for was for him to agree with me that divorce was the right thing to do. Unfortunately, that wasn't going to happen. I had to accept that I was going to have to be the one to initiate the separation/divorce and assume the burden of the blame and guilt for breaking up our family.

 

My advice to you... if you know that this is what you want (and you sound as though you do and it sounds to me that it would be in everyone's best interest), then don't drag it out unnecessarily. It's an extremely difficult decision and it will be extremely difficult time in your life, but you have to think long-term... of how being happy will make you a better father and a better role model for your daughter once you're involved in a healthy relationship. Children are very perceptive and very resilient. With lots of love and reassurance, my kids (ages 5 and 7) have adjusted suprisingly well (and quickly) to our separation.

 

As for the OW, I believe that you can separate your feelings. She has only provided you the opportunity to share aloud your thoughts and feelings... you've known for a long time what your marriage is and how you feel about your wife.

 

Good luck with your decision and know that you're not alone, your not a bad person/father, and you can get through this.

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I think I disagree a bit with Quilly. In my own divorce, even though I knew that things would probably not work out with my husband, I still went to counseling with and without my husband. That way, I could honestly say that I did everything I could to keep my marriage together. Now, it is 10 years since my divorce, and when my daughter talks to me about it, and cries because her Mom and Dad are not together, I can say to her that I/we did everything we could to fix our marriage. I just didn't want to have any regrets, or feel like if I'd only tried hard enough that maybe things would have worked out.

 

I think you should do some reading on <removed> (which I think is really good), and maybe get one of the good marriage books out there. I think doing so might help you to clarify in your own mind what it is you want, and what exactly are the problems in your own marriage.

 

At this point in time, I think this should be more about you, figuring out how you got to the place you're at, where you'd like to go, and if there is any way your wife can be part of that. I'm not sure that discussions with your wife will be very productive until you have a better sense of who you are. I do think marriage counseling can be beneficial, if you have a good counselor, and if both parties really are invested in making the marriage work, and making changes in themselves to make it work.

 

Kids can do well after divorce, but there is no doubt that it is hard on them. I know that my daughter is much better off with her parents not married, than she would be if we were. Even so, the divorce has been hard on her, and still is, although she is doing well. I think the relationship between the parents after the divorce has a lot to do with how kids fare. If you do decide to divorce, you and your wife may still need some help in learning to be good, meaning non-contentious, divorced parents, since you already know she has problems in that area.

 

Good luck to you, and take care. You have a lot of work to do.

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Originally posted by Quilly

brandx,

 

Your story is similar to mine and I felt very much the same way about my marriage. When I first talked with my husband I thought for certain he would agree that our marriage should end, but he didn't. We did the counseling thing (which was not helpful) and talked about it on and off for another 10 months. It was a miserable time for both of us living in constant limbo -- him wondering if/when I would leave and me wondering if I should/could leave because of the kids. I finally realized that what I was waiting for was for him to agree with me that divorce was the right thing to do. Unfortunately, that wasn't going to happen. I had to accept that I was going to have to be the one to initiate the separation/divorce and assume the burden of the blame and guilt for breaking up our family.

 

My advice to you... if you know that this is what you want (and you sound as though you do and it sounds to me that it would be in everyone's best interest), then don't drag it out unnecessarily. It's an extremely difficult decision and it will be extremely difficult time in your life, but you have to think long-term... of how being happy will make you a better father and a better role model for your daughter once you're involved in a healthy relationship. Children are very perceptive and very resilient. With lots of love and reassurance, my kids (ages 5 and 7) have adjusted suprisingly well (and quickly) to our separation.

 

As for the OW, I believe that you can separate your feelings. She has only provided you the opportunity to share aloud your thoughts and feelings... you've known for a long time what your marriage is and how you feel about your wife.

 

Good luck with your decision and know that you're not alone, your not a bad person/father, and you can get through this.

 

Quilly

 

Thank you for the advice. It is so funny that you say that. My wife and I spoke last night and as we were talking through things, I sort of came to a similar conclusion. It is at times like I want her to see all that is wrong between us so she will give me "agree" with me that things cannot go on this way. In reality, you are right, if that decision is to be made, I have to be the one to make it. And she told me she is insecure because she now knows that divorce is an option in my heart and mind.

 

 

Originally posted by Matilda

I think I disagree a bit with Quilly. In my own divorce, even though I knew that things would probably not work out with my husband, I still went to counseling with and without my husband. That way, I could honestly say that I did everything I could to keep my marriage together. Now, it is 10 years since my divorce, and when my daughter talks to me about it, and cries because her Mom and Dad are not together, I can say to her that I/we did everything we could to fix our marriage. I just didn't want to have any regrets, or feel like if I'd only tried hard enough that maybe things would have worked out.

 

I think you should do some reading on <removed> (which I think is really good), and maybe get one of the good marriage books out there. I think doing so might help you to clarify in your own mind what it is you want, and what exactly are the problems in your own marriage.

 

At this point in time, I think this should be more about you, figuring out how you got to the place you're at, where you'd like to go, and if there is any way your wife can be part of that. I'm not sure that discussions with your wife will be very productive until you have a better sense of who you are. I do think marriage counseling can be beneficial, if you have a good counselor, and if both parties really are invested in making the marriage work, and making changes in themselves to make it work.

 

Kids can do well after divorce, but there is no doubt that it is hard on them. I know that my daughter is much better off with her parents not married, than she would be if we were. Even so, the divorce has been hard on her, and still is, although she is doing well. I think the relationship between the parents after the divorce has a lot to do with how kids fare. If you do decide to divorce, you and your wife may still need some help in learning to be good, meaning non-contentious, divorced parents, since you already know she has problems in that area.

 

Good luck to you, and take care. You have a lot of work to do.

 

Matilda ad Quilly:

 

I do agree with Matilda that I think therapy is good. Unfortunately my wife told me that she will not go to a therapist or counselor. We have some history with some and she feels they cause too many problems (my wife truly struggles with self examination and accountability, so I am afraid that therapy is at times to much honesty and she hears things she can't process). Either way, I will be getting into therapy, but I am sure she will not allow me to pay for it while we are together, so that is not a fun issue. I did get her to consider talking with some other 3rd party mediator type, but she will not see a priest, family member, close friend, etc. so I am not sure what that leaves us. And she doesn't want to do that yet because she thinks we can work it out ourselves.

 

I will go to that <removed> website, thank you. I am really trying to focus on getting myself strong, as selfish as that may sound, but I know I am worthless to my daughter, wife, anyone if I do not get myself in line first. Believe it or not, I am more sure and strong within myself now than I have ever been in my marriage or even my life I think. Obviously age, experience, self awareness and honesty can do many things as we mature. I truly do know what I want for myself, but I want to see if I can acheive that through my marriage before I give up.

 

You are 100% correct on the kids issues. That is my greatest fear, and my baby (ok, she is 6, not truly a baby), but I want to protect her and always have. Fact of the matter is, I can't be strong for her and protect her until I do the same for myself. It will be ugly if it comes to divorce. I will be so reasonable and fair if she is willing to work with me; if not, I will do what I have to do to protect my daughter from our disagreements. Plain and simple.

 

Thank you both so much! As always, keep the comments flowing.

 

BrandX

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Welcome to the "I am thinking about getting a divorce club"

 

Most of the comments from others have been general so far.

I am here to get brutal on you.

 

First of all, I really don't think you need to waste your money on marriage counselling.

Reason is that in your comments you have already made up your mind about getting a divorce.

You seem to want to go to counselling for the sake of notifying your wife that your thinking about letting her go.

Your justifying in your mind that you tried to workout your marriage one last time before you divorce her.

 

Ask yourself this question, what would happen if you and your wife went to counselling and she did everything you wanted? I don't think the feelings that you have will change. The fact is, you got married too young and for the wrong reasons. You missed out on dating other women and now your realizing that you want that before its too late. Your wife is considerably older than you and she will continue to age fast. Deep down inside you want something young and new. Just be honest with yourself.

 

If divorcing your wife is the answer, just do it. The sooner you do it, the sooner your life will get better.

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Originally posted by TempSain

First of all, I really don't think you need to waste your money on marriage counselling.

Reason is that in your comments you have already made up your mind about getting a divorce.

You seem to want to go to counselling for the sake of notifying your wife that your thinking about letting her go.

Your justifying in your mind that you tried to workout your marriage one last time before you divorce her.

 

I understand your point, and agree that a part of that is there. The other part of me, though, knows the grass is never greener and that it is not easy to find someone to make a partnship work with. I would rather give this an honest try, even if my mind may be made up; and I know that is what she wants. In addition, I have already notified my wife that I am thinking this might not work. Now I want to address the differences between us to see if they are as unsolveable as I already think they are.

 

Ask yourself this question, what would happen if you and your wife went to counselling and she did everything you wanted? I don't think the feelings that you have will change.

 

I am not looking for her to do ANYTHING that I want. I hope she does what SHE wants. I want us to discuss where our values are for finances, love, child rearing, responsibility, etc. If we can identify things that keep us from being good partners, then maybe we can compromise and work together rather than apart. I don't think the feelings I have will change either, but marriage is too serious an issue for me to just walk away from so quickly.

 

The fact is, you got married too young and for the wrong reasons.

 

Absolultely correct.

 

You missed out on dating other women and now your realizing that you want that before its too late. Your wife is considerably older than you and she will continue to age fast. Deep down inside you want something young and new. Just be honest with yourself.

 

Good aim, but you are absolutely off the mark. I could stay in my marriage and date other women if that was what I wanted; people do it all the time. I really don't care how she looks as we grow old. make no mistake, I am aging too, and my wife is pretty hot. Young and new has never appealed to me. I have always followed my heart. When I was young and prior to marriage, my heart led me to things different than it does now 9such as infatuation, hot women, whatever). Now I know that I don't want to be with anybody if I cannot share the values, goals, dreams, etc. that a good relationship needs to work in the long run. In the short run, I would be thrilled to be on my own and just care for myself and my daughter if I cannot stay in this marriage.

 

If divorcing your wife is the answer, just do it. The sooner you do it, the sooner your life will get better.

 

Agreed. I just want to make sure that I have asked all of the questions before I decide exactly what the answers are.

 

 

Thank you and feel free to add on.

 

BrandX

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Originally posted by TempSain

First of all, I really don't think you need to waste your money on marriage counselling.

Reason is that in your comments you have already made up your mind about getting a divorce.

You seem to want to go to counselling for the sake of notifying your wife that your thinking about letting her go.

Your justifying in your mind that you tried to workout your marriage one last time before you divorce her.

 

I understand your point, and agree that a part of that is there. The other part of me, though, knows the grass is never greener and that it is not easy to find someone to make a partnship work with. I would rather give this an honest try, even if my mind may be made up; and I know that is what she wants. In addition, I have already notified my wife that I am thinking this might not work. Now I want to address the differences between us to see if they are as unsolveable as I already think they are.

 

Ask yourself this question, what would happen if you and your wife went to counselling and she did everything you wanted? I don't think the feelings that you have will change.

 

I am not looking for her to do ANYTHING that I want. I hope she does what SHE wants. I want us to discuss where our values are for finances, love, child rearing, responsibility, etc. If we can identify things that keep us from being good partners, then maybe we can compromise and work together rather than apart. I don't think the feelings I have will change either, but marriage is too serious an issue for me to just walk away from so quickly.

 

The fact is, you got married too young and for the wrong reasons.

 

Absolultely correct.

 

You missed out on dating other women and now your realizing that you want that before its too late. Your wife is considerably older than you and she will continue to age fast. Deep down inside you want something young and new. Just be honest with yourself.

 

Good aim, but you are absolutely off the mark. I could stay in my marriage and date other women if that was what I wanted; people do it all the time. I really don't care how she looks as we grow old. make no mistake, I am aging too, and my wife is pretty hot. Young and new has never appealed to me. I have always followed my heart. When I was young and prior to marriage, my heart led me to things different than it does now 9such as infatuation, hot women, whatever). Now I know that I don't want to be with anybody if I cannot share the values, goals, dreams, etc. that a good relationship needs to work in the long run. In the short run, I would be thrilled to be on my own and just care for myself and my daughter if I cannot stay in this marriage.

 

If divorcing your wife is the answer, just do it. The sooner you do it, the sooner your life will get better.

 

Agreed. I just want to make sure that I have asked all of the questions before I decide exactly what the answers are.

 

 

Thank you and feel free to add on.

 

BrandX

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