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confused-hesitant

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confused-hesitant

We have been married for 10 years, together for 14, have one 7 yr old child. I have been contemplating a divorce for quite a while. H has been distant, hurtful, mean, uncaring, etc for years and I stayed because of our child. Now that I have made the decision to end it and have decided I AM strong enough to do this on my own and he decides he's NOW going to do something to make himself better for us. Before, (and this was for MANY YEARS) when he would come home he would go straight to HIS tv, no conversation, nothing, heck wouldn't even take a shower daily. If we did talk, it was about stuff like "are you going to the store, pick up milk" nothing real. If I did try to talk about my day I was interrupted and told how hard HIS day was. My daughter and I have completely built a life separate from him. I have faced many years of being put down, called names, told no one wants me. My self esteem was VERY low. I don't know what changed but one day I decided I could do this on my own, I quit resenting everything and made plans to move out. Looked for a house for a couple of months that I could afford and that would accept my dogs and would be compatible for our lifestyle. I wanted to wait until after the holidays for my daughters sake.

Right before Christmas he started acting different. I think he knew I was pulling away from him and realized this was it, he needed to make a change. He started acting friendly, wanted to touch me, kiss me, hug me (which NEVER happened, EVER). We finally talked the weekend after christmas and I told him I was leaving him. Now he insists I don't have to find a house, that he will leave if I want him to, and then he begged me to give him a second chance, that he would change.

Honestly, tho, I don't know that I WANT him to change. Or, if he does, that I really want to be with him anymore. I am SO afraid if I tell him its over that he's going to hurt himself. He is bipolar and refuses to take his meds, he keeps talking about how he's set realistic goals for himself, and now tells me every day how much he loves me.

I'm thinking of telling him this weekend that I want us to separate and see what happens.

 

What would you do in this situation? I'm afraid he will be VERY dramatic about this and won't be willing or able to talk about this like adults. I asked him, when he begged for another chance, if I said no where would he go and he shrugged and said he would either kill himself or live in his car. uggg.

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Emotional blackmail is a distasteful thing.

His assurance that he will kill himself or live in his car, flies against his suggestion that he be the one to leave....

he's being manipulative and trying to use every trick in the book to keep you where he wants you.

Once you capitulate, he will keep up this behaviour for a short while, but sadly, I believe he will revert to type.

 

The thing to do is to ask him to leave, but agree to MC. In fact, I would insist on it...

However, you consider yourselves officially separated, and he cannot for one moment think that MC will mean a reconciliation.

 

MC is not a tool designed to keep people together, necessarily.

It's a tool designed to enable you to talk, express yourselves freely and discuss matters without resorting to shouting matches, accusations, insults and intimidating behaviour.

You will need proof of his constancy and true desire to change, for a period of time to be decided by you.

In the meantime, he has to promise to make the sincere effort to change - but not under your roof.

 

If he can't keep it up, and his behaviour is volatile, changeable and erratic - you'll know you were right.

If on the other hand, he really does make a genuine effort to change and be a better man - then you have the time to re-think.

 

Oh and while you're separated?

 

No sex.

 

At all.

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Honestly, tho, I don't know that I WANT him to change. Or, if he does, that I really want to be with him anymore. I am SO afraid if I tell him its over that he's going to hurt himself. He is bipolar and refuses to take his meds,

 

A condition of MC, is that he begins to take his med's.

 

But if really, you are all done in, and are exhausted by the entire history of everything you've been through, then file for divorce and get it over with.

 

You can-not be held responsible, or feel responsible, or be made responsible - for his condition.

 

I know it sounds like the bitchiest thing to say, but if he self-harms, that really IS on him. Not you.

That is too great a burden to expect anyone to have to carry.

It's time he put his Big Boy pants on and took responsibility for himself.

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confused-hesitant

He has made a goal list and insists he is going to change. But, we have had this discussion before and I almost left him. It gets better for a while and then goes right back to the way it was.

Now, with him trying to be nice, we're friends. That's about it. I know he wants more. He keeps telling me he loves me more now than he ever did, yet just 2 weeks ago (before his new found attitude change) he called me an idiot, and at thanksgiving he called me a dumb-a__ in front of his entire family, then proceded to tell me it was MY fault. He now admits that it was all his fault and he pushed me away. But, I feel like him changing and deciding to be a better person is just putting me in a bad position. I tried to make this work for so many years, feeling like a single parent, like I was the only one making an effort, finally decide to step away when he comes around and decides to change. He wants to play house now, and suddenly I'm suppose to be on board after being shut down and pushed away for so many years. I feel emotionally drained, just don't even want to put the effort in it anymore. I think this weekend I'm going to ask him to move out. If he wants to go live in his car thats ALL on him, I can't be pulled down to this level. I can't worry about how he's going to react anymore.

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confused-hesitant
A condition of MC, is that he begins to take his med's.

 

But if really, you are all done in, and are exhausted by the entire history of everything you've been through, then file for divorce and get it over with.

 

You can-not be held responsible, or feel responsible, or be made responsible - for his condition.

 

I know it sounds like the bitchiest thing to say, but if he self-harms, that really IS on him. Not you.

That is too great a burden to expect anyone to have to carry.

It's time he put his Big Boy pants on and took responsibility for himself.

 

This just makes me want to shake. Its what I've been thinking and haven't said it out loud. I care about him enough to know I don't want him to hurt himself, but feel if that happens then its all on him and I just can't bring myself to care anymore.

 

I told him I'd give him a second chance, but now he's talking about getting wedding rings (yes, we've been married this long without them, and he refused to get them saying it was an unnecessary expense) and promises that he will never not celebrate our anniversary again - 10 years and not once did he ever do anything, even argued what day we got married on. Now he wants to do the right thing and I'm suppose to forget all of these years of being put down, hurt, ignored...

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Tell him that you want him to move out, but that if he wants to see if your relationship can be re-built, that there are certain things he MUST do:

 

- Go to regular individual counseling

- Never call you names such as dumb ass, idiot, again. If he does, even once, it is over.

- Take his meds regularly.

- Show that he is capable of being a good father while you are separated by taking care of your child during their time together.

- whatever other conditions you want to add.

 

If he does all these things for 2 months, you will then join him in counseling so you can talk through your issues.

 

By doing this, it gives him the option to take control of his life. He can choose to live in his car and do nothing, or he can start making real changes. If he really loves you so much that he will do anything, here's his chance to prove it.

 

Now, if he actually does all this stuff, you joining him in counseling doesn't necessarily mean you will get back together with him. But it will still be good for you as co-parents.

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confused-hesitant

I've waited so long to do this because i know he's going to be devastated. On good days we're friends, on bad days i want to run out the front door because he makes it miserable to be in my own home. I was completely ready to let him have it all, just take the kid, the dogs and myself. Then he decided to change and that put everything on hold.

 

He's said he's got one of his goals to go to a councelor but has only gone once and says he can't afford to go for another month. And he has a habit of talking to everyone about our issues. Coworkers, cousin, friends, sister. He's pretty perceptive so i know he's going to know something is up when i sit down to talk with him. I'm going to have my daughter go to a friends house Friday evening so i can talk to him at length. No matter what i say he seems to think random things mean there is still hope. If I'm nice he mistakes for love. We did have sex once after our first talk and it was good but it made him think i was madly in love with him again and he convinced himself that he just saved his marriage. I don't want to be mean but don't want to give him false hope.

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confused-hesitant

I was pretty quiet towards him last night and he immediately withdrew, acted pouty, didn't sleep in my bed (we've slept in separate beds for years now, his choice, LONG story...), actually slept downstairs claiming he didn't want to wake me up but he ONLY sleeps downstairs when he gets pouty and quiet. Its this childish behavior that makes my decision become easier. ugg...

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I've waited so long to do this because i know he's going to be devastated. On good days we're friends, on bad days i want to run out the front door because he makes it miserable to be in my own home.
This alone should be sufficient to tell you that this is no longer a marriage.

you're house-mates. Friends, companions, you share the4 same living space, and that's it.

Oh, and he happens to be your daughter's biological father. There is that.

But that was long ago, and this is now.....

 

I was completely ready to let him have it all, just take the kid, the dogs and myself. Then he decided to change and that put everything on hold.

 

He's said he's got one of his goals to go to a councelor but has only gone once and says he can't afford to go for another month.

Does he do other things, like indulge in hobbies, have the occasional beer, smoke?

maybe if he's really serious, he can focus, concentrate and put THAT money aside and put it towards what really matters....

 

And he has a habit of talking to everyone about our issues. Coworkers, cousin, friends, sister.

That's a fail-safe method... he figures the more people are in on it, the harder it will be for you to follow through...Imagine, all that explaining to do... Boy, won't you feel guilty?

 

 

He's pretty perceptive so i know he's going to know something is up when i sit down to talk with him.

That's not being perceptive. Anyone with an ounce of sense will know that 'sit down we need to talk' means.... sit down - we need to talk. "uh-oh....."

 

.

.... No matter what i say he seems to think random things mean there is still hope. If I'm nice he mistakes for love. We did have sex once after our first talk and it was good but it made him think i was madly in love with him again and he convinced himself that he just saved his marriage. I don't want to be mean but don't want to give him false hope.

 

Then there's only one thing for it.

 

"I'm sorry, I can't do this any more, I've given all I have to give and I have nothing left. I want you to leave, and I am going to file for divorce. I really don't want to hurt you, but it seems there's no other way of being able to get through to you."

 

Will do it.

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confused-hesitant
This alone should be sufficient to tell you that this is no longer a marriage.

you're house-mates. Friends, companions, you share the4 same living space, and that's it.

Oh, and he happens to be your daughter's biological father. There is that.

But that was long ago, and this is now.....

 

 

I've said this for a long time. We're roommates. He hasn't acted like a husband for a very long time. I don't think he really knows HOW to act like a husband.

 

 

Does he do other things, like indulge in hobbies, have the occasional beer, smoke?

maybe if he's really serious, he can focus, concentrate and put THAT money aside and put it towards what really matters....

 

He does snuff, that's it. He's not a drinker or a smoker, he has an OCD type personality, when he decides he likes something it becomes an obcession. He decided last year that he wanted wax cubes. Yes, I know, WAX CUBES?? He was obsessed with them, has over a thousand boxes of them, had to buy them every time he went to walmart, would research them online to decide which scents he wanted to buy, would even travel to other walmarts in the area to see which kinds they had. He's decided he's stopping that now, and hasn't bought any in the 3 weeks since we talked.

 

 

That's a fail-safe method... he figures the more people are in on it, the harder it will be for you to follow through...Imagine, all that explaining to do... Boy, won't you feel guilty?

 

Makes a lot of sence.. He talked with his sister at length. I know they are going to shut me out, but since I never see them except during holidays it won't be that much of a change.

 

 

That's not being perceptive. Anyone with an ounce of sense will know that 'sit down we need to talk' means.... sit down - we need to talk. "uh-oh....."

 

I mean, he will know something is up before I sit him down. I think he already knows I've made this decision, he was pretty withdrawn last night. He called me this morning asking if we could do something as a family this weekend. that's the first time in a LONG time, and I know he's only doing this out of desperation.

 

 

Then there's only one thing for it.

 

"I'm sorry, I can't do this any more, I've given all I have to give and I have nothing left. I want you to leave, and I am going to file for divorce. I really don't want to hurt you, but it seems there's no other way of being able to get through to you."

 

Will do it.

 

I think this is the ONLY way I can approach it with him. I have to make it black and white, if he thinks there is even a remote chance this will work he won't leave. I have options if he decides he's not going to leave, its just an inconvenience for me, but I can still make it work. I'm ready for it. I think.

I've arranged for my daughter to stay with a friend over the weekend. I don't know how I'm going to tell her this. that's the part that worries me the most. She's 7 and loves her dad, she sees the things he's done, tho, but its going to make it that much harder because he's gone out of his way to be nice lately.

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confused-hesitant

He kept pushing me last night to tell him how I felt and I refuse to tell him to move out until our daughter is not in the house. I told him I thought we were friends cause now he's being nice. He was very upset, thinks I should have already forgotten and forgiven all the years of hurt and pain. Two more days. This has got to be one of the hardest things I've had to do. He is going to be so upset but I can't keep living like this, feeling like I'm in limbo. He thinks he's genuinely changed and I really hope he does, but its too late, that love is gone.

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cozycottagelg

This sounds so similar to my situation, except you have it a little worse.

 

My husband also said he would change, he would do anything, he would start being the husband I have wanted all along. That was a year and a half ago, and you know what, he has changed. He is still selfish, but as for meeting my needs, he does.

 

Problem is, my heart and mind are in the exact same spot they were when I was at my worst with him.

 

Even if your husband changes, you seem very checked out. If you have the courage to go, you should go. I wish so badly I had that courage.

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This sounds so similar to my situation, except you have it a little worse.

 

My husband also said he would change, he would do anything, he would start being the husband I have wanted all along. That was a year and a half ago, and you know what, he has changed. He is still selfish, but as for meeting my needs, he does.

 

Problem is, my heart and mind are in the exact same spot they were when I was at my worst with him.

 

Even if your husband changes, you seem very checked out. If you have the courage to go, you should go. I wish so badly I had that courage.

 

The longest journey begins with a single step. Once you take that step, you'll be amazed at how one leg follows the other....

 

He kept pushing me last night to tell him how I felt and I refuse to tell him to move out until our daughter is not in the house. I told him I thought we were friends cause now he's being nice. He was very upset, thinks I should have already forgotten and forgiven all the years of hurt and pain. Two more days. This has got to be one of the hardest things I've had to do. He is going to be so upset but I can't keep living like this, feeling like I'm in limbo. He thinks he's genuinely changed and I really hope he does, but its too late, that love is gone.

 

THis WILL be the hardest thing you'll have to do.

But once it's done, the relief will be palpable.

The moment the words come out of your mouth, you absolutely MUST go into self-preservation mode.

No matter what he says and does, what will count from that moment on, will be you, and your daughter.

 

Remember that.

Prioritise.

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confused-hesitant
This sounds so similar to my situation, except you have it a little worse.

 

My husband also said he would change, he would do anything, he would start being the husband I have wanted all along. That was a year and a half ago, and you know what, he has changed. He is still selfish, but as for meeting my needs, he does.

 

Problem is, my heart and mind are in the exact same spot they were when I was at my worst with him.

 

Even if your husband changes, you seem very checked out. If you have the courage to go, you should go. I wish so badly I had that courage.

 

This was my biggest fear, that I would allow him to stay and he would change but I could never love him again. I'm done, checked out, I need to move on.

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confused-hesitant

I think I'm going to wait until our daughter is asleep tonight and just tell him its over. I can't keep doing this, its consuming me, I can't concentrate at work and that's NOT good. I have got to get this over with.

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confused-hesitant

Well, I broke the news to him last night. Lots of drama but no tears that I saw (I'm sure that happened after I went to bed). He decided to throw all of his things away, says he's living in his car, drank an entire bottle of whiskey and then when I was in the shower he grabbed his keys and left. Yes, very responsible, but I'm sure he wasn't thinking clearly. He wrote me a letter last night, said he was sorry for everything, that he would love me for ever, he was going to take care of the bills, if I ever wanted him back he would come back. He took today off of work to pack and says he will be out by Sunday. I told him on Sunday, before he leaves, I want him and I to sit down with our daughter to explain what is going on. He says he will, at least this is better than getting mad and breaking things.

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cozycottagelg

I am so proud of you. That is such a hard step and you did it!!! You really did it!! Good luck with everything. I'd love to know how it goes with your daughter. Keep posting.

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confused-hesitant

I'm hoping he can put his feeling aside when we sit down to talk with her. My goal is to make her understand that she is loved and that she isn't loosing either of us.

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That's not a goal.... As you have both been good parents to her (you say that lately he' been super-nice to her) then she should take that as read.

 

The worst thing to say to a kid, is anything which implies "Honestly honey, it's not your fault" or "But we love you just as much"....

 

Just explain to her that sometimes, this happens. It's sadly not rare, but mums and dads do separate, because things happen that make it impossible for them to go on.

Don't implicate her, or bring her into the equasion.

her confidence in you should never have wavered, and it shouldn't now.....

 

She must have buddies at school whose parents are divorced/separated/re-married....

 

Advise her teachers that this is going on and to look out for changes in behaviour, mood swings, etc.... if the school knows one of her good friends who's in the same boat, just get the school to ask this friend to 'just keep a little eye on her'....

That's what happened with my youngest daughter when her dad and I separated.... and it worked well.

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confused-hesitant

Ive spoke with both her teacher and the school counselor. They were both very understanding.

We both sat down to talk to her yesterday. She was pretty upset, didn't ask any questions, just cried. It was heartbreaking. I was the one to talk while he just sat there, and when I told her he was moving to his dads for a while and she started crying he started telling her that it was just temporary and that he would be back. Grrr... Then, when she went to bed he went in to tell her goodnight "one last time" I ended up having to lay down with her for over a half hour, til she calmed down and went to sleep. She got to see him this morning, no tears, tho, she hugged him a couple times. I warned him, tho, no "I'll miss you" this morning, she can't handle that right before school. That's not fair to her.

 

He officially left today. I had to agree to a separation instead of an outright divorce. He thinks the marriage is salvageable because he's now decided to change into a better person, and by his thinking, if he becomes this perfect person (mentally, physically, etc) that I will just automatically fall in love with him again. He asked me to forgive and forget the past. How can I forgive and forget the last 8 years of mental abuse? how can HE ask that of me? I know eventually I will forgive him, but I can never forget it. So, for now we are doing a "controlled separation" complete with contract and everything. When I suggested it he jumped on it because I think that HE thinks it gives him a way back in. He thinks after 1 month of no contact and 1 month of minimal contact that I'll miss him so much I'll let him move back in. I don't want to do the back and forth with my daughter, that's not fair to her. I told him we would do 2 months and then see what we both think. He drove me nuts all weekend, obsessing over every little detail, giving me instructions from how high to turn the heat to turning on the faucets when it drops to zero. ALL things I know and handle now, yet he thinks that after this many years I need him to finally step up and be the man of the house. I've played both parts all of these years, I think I can handle it.

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confused-hesitant

She seems to be adjusting well. She has a few moments here and there of "I miss daddy" but honestly, there have been SO many times he just wasn't there either working or something else was more important than getting home in time to kiss her goodnight. Most of the time she just doesn't even notice he's not there. She will be staying the weekend with him next weekend.

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That raises red flags for me....

Expect her to come back emotionally different. because he WILL play upon her and use her as a pawn to get to you. He will say things to her to yank her chain, and she will come back confused and tearful.

 

I'm just warning you of what may well happen. I amy well be completely wrong, but looking at your history.... Hmmmmm...sadly, I doubt it.....

He has every right to see her, but brace yourself for a lot of emotional manipulation on his part....

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confused-hesitant

Thing is, he FULLY expects this to work out, so right now its all about fixing everything. I think, maybe once he finally realizes that its not going to happen, THEN I will have to watch for this. Right now he's fully convinced this is only temporary.

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Well, you have to convince him as firmly as possible, that this is permanent. I strongly suggest you tell him that you're seeing a lawyer to draw up the divorce papers and you suggests he also gets one in order to finalise the settlement fairly.

 

If that's the only way to drive the message home, that's what you'll have to do.

 

Knock on his head with a 30lb-sledgehammer until it sinks in.

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confused-hesitant

Well, I agreed to a "controlled separation" and we promised each other we wouldn't finalize papers until the first 2 months is up, that was part of the contract. I refuse to get ugly about this. He fully expects this to work out, so I know he won't file papers. He honestly thought after Feb with minimal contact and March with 2 dates and 1 family function/outing, that he was going to move back in and try again. I put a stop to that quick and told him we would discuss things at the end of March and see where we were at. I won't be allowing him to move back in, he just doesn't understand that yet. For him and his mental health, I can't tell him this is over right now. He is seeing a councelor regularly and is working on himself, and, for me and my sanity, I can't crush that right now. I'm ok with being in limbo right now. I refuse to give him false hope, and won't. When we go on our dates I've laid out the ground rules - no kissing, no hand holding, one hug to greet and one to say goodbye. Drop me off in front of the house, thats it. Then we have our daughters birthday party at the end of the month. Once that is over, then he and I will sit down and discuss what we want to do.

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