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Separation in the family home? I can't stand this.


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It's a long story. Shortish version: last June my wife of 14 years (together 16) gave me the 'my feelings have changed' speech. After 2 days she relented, but since then it's been a long, slow, painful slide towards what she wants - separation and the end of our relationship. I persuaded her to go to counselling, she came to a few sessions, but no help really. We have a son aged 14, she wants us both to continue to be the great parents we have always been to him, but separately.

At first she demanded I move out. I have steadfastly refused on principle, as she is the one leaving me and not vice versa, and I have kept repeating that it's the family home, where I have lived for 11 years, and I'm not going anywhere, thank you. I'm in a financial situation where it would be well nigh impossible anyway. She has spent a long time refusing to move out too, and likewise isn't in great financial shape alone, though it would be easier for her to do so, imho. Last week, following some lovely, lovely legal advice given to her by a lovely, lovely family lawyer, she announced that she would no longer be cooking to include me, or doing any washing for me, as she wants to ensure legal separation starts asap even though we live in the same house. This will make divorce by separation arrive sooner. I explained this situation to my son and he said no, mum would never be so mean. That evening she refused to include me in a meal. I was upset, and my son comforted me. I avoided her for a couple of days, only returning home to sleep. The following morning she came to me and said she can't behave like this, it's too awful, she can't follow the legal advice, she will behave like a decent person until she moves out, she will include me in meals, laundry etc., because it doesn't teach our son anything good. I'm left in a weird situation, trying to live in the family home with a woman who would like to cut off all human support to me, but who has relented on doing so because it so upsets our son. How charming. Probably needless to say, I haven't eaten a shared meal or left any washing in the basket since she first made the announcement. I just sleep there 4 nights out of 7, and avoid her at all costs. Her moving out could take months, even years. She has put herself on a council housing list, and refuses to rent privately because she is daunted by the quality of housing, security of tenancy, and all sorts of other fears that you might think she would have considered before she dropped the bomb...

Any thoughts on how to handle this dreadful situation? I won't move out, she may take ages to move out, I'm not inclined to share in her games of neglecting, rejecting and patronising me, and I just avoid her as much as possible. I hope she moves out soon, if she is persisting with her overall aim. Meanwhile, I'm seeing my son for about 2 hours a week - far less than if she moved out and we had a reasonable shared parenting arrangement.

Emotional backdrop - I love her very much, I never wanted or anticipated any of this. I'm not vile or abusive or alcoholic or violent or a gambler or anything. I'm a nice guy (whoops, big failing right there), we've had a very tough couple of years and she just wants out.

She has told our son (because he told me so) that if she moves out to a new place with him, then 'if things pick up, maybe Dad will be able to move in with us again'. Is this a genuine tiny hope on her part? Or just to calm his nerves?

Any thoughts welcome. Female perspectives too. Thanks.

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Something is missing here....Playing too much xbox? Do you have some really funky sexual behaviors that she can't get her head around?

Women don't leave marriages for no reason..hell people don't leave marriages for no reason.

 

1. Alcohol/drug abuse by either partner...check according to you on your part

2. Physical/emotional abuse by either partner...check according to you on your part.

3. Mental illness by either partner

4. Third party involvement

 

I'm sure there are some exceptions as there are no absolutes in human behavior. Choose your reason.

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There's quite a bit missing here, standtall. Like I said, it's a long story. But in terms of your list, it's not 1 or 2, unless you count slowly drifting apart by neglecting our problems and hoping they will go away as a mutual 2.

I firmly believe there is an element of 3 on her part, namely depression following two miscarriages. This has not been diagnosed, though I have talked to her doctor in confidence about the possibility and the fact that I am deeply worried about her and her irrational behaviour towards me. She covers all this very well in social and work spheres - strangers would never know anything was wrong.

A professional psychotherapist clearly agrees with me that these events, coupled with past traumas in her life, have probably triggered a lot of what is happening now. My wife, however, refuses any kind of help and resents any suggestion that she needs any. She says she just wants to live the rest of her life alone, as her, without anyone depending on her and without her depending on anyone.

As to 4, there was clearly involvement via Facebook with an old school friend (not an old flame, just an old friend) in the time prior to her announcement last June. I have no way of telling how serious this is/was, I am 99% sure nothing physical has happened (given different countries and her 0% libido), but the communication between them, whether an EA or just genuine friendship, certainly hasn't done anything good to our marriage.

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worldgonewrong

KO's: your situation is so similar to my own, it almost makes me wanna cry.

 

Except you did the wise thing in standing your ground about not moving out. Good man. I was so blind-sided that I allowed myself to be screwed.

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findingnemo

Mental problem or not...if someone wants a separation, give it to them.

 

I admire that you've stayed in the home. Stay, stay, stay. And don't spend 4 out of 7 nights elsewhere. You may as well move out. The more time you spend at home, the more uncomfortable she'll get. I know that in your world when people want to separate, it's almost automatic that the man be the one to leave. That's not the case in mine. Whoever wants to leave...just leaves.

 

The home, the children...all these make up the family. You can't wake up one morning and decide you don't like your situation and expect to keep everything. If you fall in love with someone else, you're fully expected to go be with that person. You can't throw your H out as a standard procedure when it is you who wants out. It's so bloody unfair.

 

Stay, stay, stay my man. Claim what's yours. If she wants to go, let her go. Start cooking meals for your son. Take over his activities - sports, sleepovers, do his and your own laundry,etc. Be the parent, be the man. Don't allow this emasculation. Who said you can't run a washing machine? Or a dish washer? Bollocks!:mad:

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I hear you, findingnemo. Absolutely. I don't know where they get this idea that the man should be the one to leave. I always thought that the one who wants to go, just goes. And I'm fine with that, really. Of course it makes me very very very sad, but what am I going to do, lock her in the attic until she decides to stay and feel boundless love for me again?

Besides, I'm a lawyer and I know it's a joint tenancy. I don't roll over very easily. I'm staying put. And yes, I can use a washing machine. And we don't own a dishwasher but I still do the dishes.

My problem is emotional, namely that I can't bear being around the woman I still have powerful feelings for when she is funnelling all this negative force directly at me. Who wants to spend any time in a painful vortex like that? I just feel much better when I'm out of the building. When she goes, I feel things will ease a lot and we will be able to make arrangements for joint access to our kid etc. Until then, I'd like her to vacate the place for at least a couple of nights a week so that I can see him without her being around.

 

worldgonewrong - sorry to hear that, brother. Solidarity with you. I like the Bill Murray pic, btw. Seems apt :)

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I have no way of telling how serious this is/was, I am 99% sure nothing physical has happened (given different countries and her 0% libido...)

 

That's 0% towards you friend. Not necessarily the case otherwise.

 

And frankly, a huge red flag. I suggest a read through "Women's Infidelity'. Easy to find online.

 

Completely understand, seeing as how I lived through it too. Don't try to make sense of nonsense, but come to the decision of just exactly what you hate more. As for her comments to your son, that's smoothing over.

 

She's gone. When a woman says her feelings have changed, believe her. No power on heaven or earth will change it. Only her. See, for whatever reason she wants out. That's all you need to know. That's all there is.

 

Custody of a 14-year old should not be an issue. Get an agreement in place for custody and go away, if it truly is easier for you to go then her. And while I suggest it's better if she goes (after all, she's the one who wants to end it) like many she feels entitled. It's the 'nice husband' syndrome. Just make sure your suffering is minimized. Hers is guaranteed. Promise.

 

Hang in. Do what you must to put distance between you. Until you do, it'll be impossible to heal. She's backed you into a corner. Fight your way out.

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Thanks for your comments, Steadfast.

 

Yes, I've read "Women's Infidelity" and plenty more, and tormented myself endlessly with the possibilities of what may have happened in terms of her infidelity, emotional or physical. I leave that 1% doubt in there because I'm always prepared to accept the unthinkable where relationships are concerned. But after a great deal of searching, I'm left with the clear image of her sitting in a joint counselling session, listening intently like a little girl to the therapist answering her question about why her sex drive could have completely, completely disappeared. I know her intimately, and have done for 16 years, and in that moment she was not acting. That was absolutely for real, and it was clear that it worried the hell out of her.

 

My own view is that an online EA with the 'old friend', not acknowledged or recognised by her as anything inappropriate at first, built up over time into something that has eroded her feelings for me, and has confused her all to pieces. If she really wanted to be with some other man, she would be by now. Simple as that. Overall, I do wish I knew the truth. Maybe I will one day, though I doubt it, and until then I have to accept that spinning 'what ifs' around my head is damaging to me, and best left alone.

 

For now, I think she genuinely wants to live alone just because of the mess she knows she has made of everything. She doesn't want salt rubbed into her wounds every day just by my presence. I have to say, I've been there before (with other relationships prior to marriage) - things got so messy I just decided "right, no relationships then", and was alone for a while. It helped at the time.

 

"Hang in. Do what you must to put distance between you." This is my conundrum exactly. I need to do both these things. How to do this in a small house, that's my problem. Unless and until one of us moves out (by which I mean her), these two are mutually exclusive. On a physical level, anyway.

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Just make sure your suffering is minimized. Hers is guaranteed. Promise.

 

Make me feel better. Elaborate.

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YOU need to investigate the laws in your state. In some states, when one person files for divorce, the other is the one "forced" to move out...sometimes physically removed by sherriff/police.

 

Find out if you can have her removed if you file. Important to know, because that could also mean that she could have you removed if she files first.

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Thanks, Owl. I'm going to get some general legal advice, though she says she's not going to file for divorce but wait for separation to have the same effect (after however many years it takes). It's UK law rather than US, so state differences aren't an issue. I haven't heard of forced removal following a divorce judgment, but there are possible court orders regarding occupation. Not my area of law, mercifully...:)

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Yes. You only need to wait for separation to dissolve the marriage if you don't want to file for a 'fault' divorce. I think she's aware that going straight for a divorce on 'fault' grounds would be quite a tall order where I'm concerned. Any judge worth his salt would laugh quite hard.

 

Either party would need solid grounds for applying for an occupation order, too (to get the other one out of the home), such as violence or other abuse.

 

I don't think putting up with 16 years of my snoring would be seen as a satisfactory basis for either.

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Any thoughts on what I should tell my son?

 

So far I've stuck to my guns solidly - not moving out myself, and telling her if she's leaving the marriage then she knows where the front door is. She has said she'll leave as soon as she can, but that may take a long time. I'm now thinking of going to mediation, to explore ways for her to move out sooner, to get all the practicalities on the table and discuss them sensibly. In other words, letting her go, but not actually finding a new place for her (which is what she would like). I also think this just might call her bluff and provoke a U-turn, though I'm not banking on it.

 

My son knows that she's said she wants to move out. I've told him I'm not moving out, and that I don't want any of this to happen anyway. He knows.

 

My question is, what do I tell him if I now start encouraging her to go to mediation in order to facilitate her moving out? I don't want him to think I'm trying to get rid of her. I'm not. I just want to help her see if she can genuinely get what she says she wants, without dragging this horrible limbo out for months. I'm worried that he might see this as me trying to give her the boot, and that I've lied to him about wanting her to stay. She still refers to my insistence that she should be the one to leave as me "kicking her out".

 

This is really hard. I'm fed up of waiting for nothing to happen, and I want to give the situation a good kick in the pants, but I don't want to appear to be inconsistent.

 

Any thoughts?

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Well, things have moved on a little (at last!). She's moving out, leaving me in the family home. I'm not happy about it, but it's the only 'separation outcome' that is acceptable to me, so that's a positive, I suppose. She's been trying to get me to agree to live together 'as friends' but I've firmly declined and so she's going. We arranged mediation, and here's where it got truly weird. I didn't sleep much last night after this. She announced where she's moving to: within the same small town, and within walking distance! Having said for years that she's tired of driving so far to work (20 miles to the nearest city) and that she's wanted to move into that city because it would save so much travel time and petrol money, she's moving just down the road! Our son is, of course, delighted. He can walk between Mum and Dad's houses, no stress about leaving his physics book in the wrong house, etc. But I'm perturbed. Why would she do this? I've been bracing myself for her going, thinking it would be miles away, and for the logistics of shared childcare, but suddenly she's going to be living very close, and likely to be bumping into me in the supermarket, in the post office, and all that. Part of me is glad - this way it'll be easier to keep communicating if she really secretly wants to reconcile. But part of me just wants to go to Canada with a rucksack. Really.

Also in mediation, in front of the mediator, she told me the following:

- she doesn't hate me or want to be my enemy;

- in fact she likes me very much;

- I'm a wonderful father and always have been;

- I've been a very good husband;

- we've had some great times;

- we've also had some truly terrible times which she can't forget 'at the moment';

- she loves me (!!! she hasn't said that since August last year!!!) but just 'not in that way', and she just doesn't want to be married at all. She said our son asked her if she still loved me and she said yes, but just in a different way than she used to.

She also said that she doesn't want to take any furniture to her new place (it's unfurnished!), and asked me 'I want to take my books - is that ok?' She says she wants to leave everything else so that it's minimal disruption to the home that our son is so familiar with.

 

Has anyone out there got any idea just what the heck is going on here? We were meeting in mediation to try to sort out details of the major separation that she says she wants. Now she's moving just along the road and only wants to take a vacuum cleaner and some books. I'm flummoxed and thinking of getting a teaching contract in Finland.

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onthefence210
Well, things have moved on a little (at last!). She's moving out, leaving me in the family home. I'm not happy about it, but it's the only 'separation outcome' that is acceptable to me, so that's a positive, I suppose. She's been trying to get me to agree to live together 'as friends' but I've firmly declined and so she's going. We arranged mediation, and here's where it got truly weird. I didn't sleep much last night after this. She announced where she's moving to: within the same small town, and within walking distance! Having said for years that she's tired of driving so far to work (20 miles to the nearest city) and that she's wanted to move into that city because it would save so much travel time and petrol money, she's moving just down the road! Our son is, of course, delighted. He can walk between Mum and Dad's houses, no stress about leaving his physics book in the wrong house, etc. But I'm perturbed. Why would she do this? I've been bracing myself for her going, thinking it would be miles away, and for the logistics of shared childcare, but suddenly she's going to be living very close, and likely to be bumping into me in the supermarket, in the post office, and all that. Part of me is glad - this way it'll be easier to keep communicating if she really secretly wants to reconcile. But part of me just wants to go to Canada with a rucksack. Really.

Also in mediation, in front of the mediator, she told me the following:

- she doesn't hate me or want to be my enemy;

- in fact she likes me very much;

- I'm a wonderful father and always have been;

- I've been a very good husband;

- we've had some great times;

- we've also had some truly terrible times which she can't forget 'at the moment';

- she loves me (!!! she hasn't said that since August last year!!!) but just 'not in that way', and she just doesn't want to be married at all. She said our son asked her if she still loved me and she said yes, but just in a different way than she used to.

She also said that she doesn't want to take any furniture to her new place (it's unfurnished!), and asked me 'I want to take my books - is that ok?' She says she wants to leave everything else so that it's minimal disruption to the home that our son is so familiar with.

 

Has anyone out there got any idea just what the heck is going on here? We were meeting in mediation to try to sort out details of the major separation that she says she wants. Now she's moving just along the road and only wants to take a vacuum cleaner and some books. I'm flummoxed and thinking of getting a teaching contract in Finland.

 

I have an idea, because I sound just like your W except I wish my H was a accepting as you so I instead have secretly found an apartment for myself and my daughter that I can't move into until the end of the month. It is 1 mile from my home, I tried to get closer for reasons you are probably looking for: 1: it allows for my child to go between the two houses freely, within reason. 2: it would have given me the space I needed to think about what I was doing and yet it allowed my child freedom to go between the two houses freely, within reason. There are many others but the big thing was my child. She wouldn't have to figure out which bus to take home on what day, etc it just seemed best for her given the situation. I too tried to get my H to live as "friends" but he too didn't want that, he wanted a wife and he deserves to have that in his life. But if I can't be that for him and he's not willing to cohabitate, then the only option is to move on. Divorce is hard enough, and people change. I just want to do what's best for my child given the situation. Is it possible that she just needs to heal herself? It's so hard to do when you have the pressures of being a wife, getting caught up in old routines. Anyways, your wife sounds like me and it really sucks to be in my head most of the time.

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Hi otf, and thanks for your reply. First of all, I should say it's taken me a year of unbelievable pain and sorrow to get to be so 'accepting' of this situation. Believe me, it's not been easy to get here but there comes a point where any definite change to the awful limbo feels positive.

I absolutely understand your reason number 1, that makes perfect sense for our son and I know she puts him first, as I do. As I say, he's relieved that he'll be able to walk it. Your reason 2 is what's freaking me out.

2: it would have given me the space I needed to think about what I was doing.
Why would she need or want this? She's been insistent on separation, but this suggests she hasn't completely made up her mind about leaving me for good. This agonizing saga has been going on for a year now, and I thought her mind was made up. Now I'm not so sure at all.

You ask if it's possible that she just needs to heal herself. Yes, I absolutely think that's possible, and in my view she desperately needs that, and if she can then I believe it's the only thing that will save us. Whether simply living apart will actually help her to heal, I don't know.

It's so hard to do when you have the pressures of being a wife, getting caught up in old routines.
Thinking about you in your situation otf, do you think it would help her head if I offered divorce, the termination of all old routines, the possibility of starting over and I'm still here, just not married? Or better to let her be in her new space for a while and see if things get clearer for her?
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It seems that the current income to fund the family home leaves little to no funds to establish two residences. In the USA what normally occurs is stop the joint income clock. Do an accounting. Sell the family dwelling and establish two residences. Some parents agree on funding child education and others go to third mom-third dad-third. The moment the click of joint income stops, each parent begins contributing to the cost of child expenses.

 

If you have the greater income, you are likely funding a greater housing expense and why would you leave?

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Hi Balzac, thanks for your comments but I'm not sure how they apply to my situation. I don't have any questions about incomes or whether we can afford to live separately - she's going and that's that. I'm on top of the maths, not sure if she is. What's happening is happening. I think I'm missing your point. (?)

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Hey sorry, I began my response, got interrupted and by the time it posted---wham lots of folks chimed in.

 

You don't have to "get" my post. You are on top of the maths. I am not very familiar with UK marital law but find the sharing about it interesting.

 

Glad to read you are in the family home.

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onthefence210
Hi otf, and thanks for your reply. First of all, I should say it's taken me a year of unbelievable pain and sorrow to get to be so 'accepting' of this situation. Believe me, it's not been easy to get here but there comes a point where any definite change to the awful limbo feels positive.

I absolutely understand your reason number 1, that makes perfect sense for our son and I know she puts him first, as I do. As I say, he's relieved that he'll be able to walk it. Your reason 2 is what's freaking me out.

Why would she need or want this? She's been insistent on separation, but this suggests she hasn't completely made up her mind about leaving me for good. This agonizing saga has been going on for a year now, and I thought her mind was made up. Now I'm not so sure at all.

You ask if it's possible that she just needs to heal herself. Yes, I absolutely think that's possible, and in my view she desperately needs that, and if she can then I believe it's the only thing that will save us. Whether simply living apart will actually help her to heal, I don't know.

Thinking about you in your situation otf, do you think it would help her head if I offered divorce, the termination of all old routines, the possibility of starting over and I'm still here, just not married? Or better to let her be in her new space for a while and see if things get clearer for her?

 

please bare with me as i try to answer your questions. and do understand i can only give u from my experience. I want out of the constant pressure for me to just forget the past and start over. It scares me to death to go back to what we were. by me leaving it forces one of two things but not both. My H has good intentions yet he doesnt see his behavior as wrong because he provides for his family. I need to set boundaries so I must leave. It forces him to either, go ahead with a divorce or it will force him to see that hes got issues. I can not work on my issues in the house with him, he makes it way too easy for me to fall back into old patterns and i cant do this anymore. I am almost positive I want a divorce, but there is that part of me that prays that my husband will finally take me seriously and when he no longer has me to take care of everything he will change. I run the risk that he will change and not want me, and I will lose out on all the good he does have to offer. He is not a bad person, he just sucks at being a husband. That is a risk Im willing to take. I figure no matter what happens, I have control over who I am and want to be.

 

If you were my H, Id want you to take care of yourself. Put your sons best interest first, and file. It will give her the jolt she needs to figure out what she really wants. I know marriage is not a game, nor should there be ultimatums. I want boundaries with consequences. If she just wants out then she will work with you on whats best for your son, and fair as far as assets. I dont know what shes thinking but if my H filed it would just mean that he is not ready to change and he is not taking my health seriously. Divorce takes time, and can be stopped at any time. Tell her you love her, that you just want her to be happy, ask her what in your marriage led her to want this, then go make yourself better. When we can acknowledge and own our issues, we can change and grow. Marriages dont work when only one is changing and growing. I hope that helps and didnt confuse you more. My story is complicated and sometimes its hard for me to separate 18 yrs of reasons why I need to get out, to get healthy.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Hi otf, and thanks for your reply. I have to say it confuses me a bit in some places:

 

If you were my H, I'd want you to take care of yourself. Put your sons best interest first, and file. It will give her the jolt she needs to figure out what she really wants.
I dont know what shes thinking but if my H filed it would just mean that he is not ready to change and he is not taking my health seriously.
These two thoughts seem rather contradictory to me. I see that my filing for divorce would actually give her a jolt that she's not expecting. She thinks she has the 'whip hand' where divorce is concerned, but she doesn't want to take responsibility for it herself. In fact she asked me just last week after a mediation session, in quite a friendly way, "Don't you want to divorce me? You can." I calmy said no, and left it at that.

So you seem to think my filing might help her to make a decision one way or the other. But then you say that in your case if your H actually did that, it would just show that he's not ready to change, etc. So it looks like a no-win situation for us bewildered Hs. I agree with you that there shouldn't be ultimatums, and at the moment I feel I can't file if that's not honestly the outcome I want.

I appreciate that my wife's situation and yours are different in some ways, but I do feel your insight is very useful and helpful, and thanks again for your input.

I understand she wants me to cope with her leaving, look after myself, look after our son, not go under, and so on, and I can actually do all that without breaking a sweat. What I don't get is that she's not saying I suck as a husband, just that she doesn't want to be married any more, and can't 'go back' to how we were before. In my view, this is really about her personal unhappiness generally, rather than the marriage. I completely agree we can't go back, but I can't get her to look at the option of 'going forward' in new ways. Maybe this is from her fear of falling into old habits too easily, which I understand as well. So maybe the only hope of getting back together 'properly' is to be apart for a long while, until drifting back into old ways becomes impossible, and then we would have to really start afresh.

 

I also think maybe she's dug herself into a massive hole, and needs to go through with her plan and move out just to save face. Sounds extraordinary, but I think it may be true.

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onthefence210
Hi otf, and thanks for your reply. I have to say it confuses me a bit in some places:

 

These two thoughts seem rather contradictory to me. I see that my filing for divorce would actually give her a jolt that she's not expecting. She thinks she has the 'whip hand' where divorce is concerned, but she doesn't want to take responsibility for it herself. In fact she asked me just last week after a mediation session, in quite a friendly way, "Don't you want to divorce me? You can." I calmy said no, and left it at that.

So you seem to think my filing might help her to make a decision one way or the other. But then you say that in your case if your H actually did that, it would just show that he's not ready to change, etc. So it looks like a no-win situation for us bewildered Hs. I agree with you that there shouldn't be ultimatums, and at the moment I feel I can't file if that's not honestly the outcome I want.

I appreciate that my wife's situation and yours are different in some ways, but I do feel your insight is very useful and helpful, and thanks again for your input.

I understand she wants me to cope with her leaving, look after myself, look after our son, not go under, and so on, and I can actually do all that without breaking a sweat. What I don't get is that she's not saying I suck as a husband, just that she doesn't want to be married any more, and can't 'go back' to how we were before. In my view, this is really about her personal unhappiness generally, rather than the marriage. I completely agree we can't go back, but I can't get her to look at the option of 'going forward' in new ways. Maybe this is from her fear of falling into old habits too easily, which I understand as well. So maybe the only hope of getting back together 'properly' is to be apart for a long while, until drifting back into old ways becomes impossible, and then we would have to really start afresh.

 

I also think maybe she's dug herself into a massive hole, and needs to go through with her plan and move out just to save face. Sounds extraordinary, but I think it may be true.

 

Yes the two statements are very contradictory...that is the difference between your situation and mine. You seem to want change, you recognize the "big" problem to be personal not marital. Your wife's unhappiness is from within, and it's projected onto the marriage, that why she sees the marriage as the problem. I think a lot of marriages fail because of that and then their next relationships will follow the same pattern until we realize it's the people who need to change and grow. I say file because it's what she wants (or thinks she does as she hasn't had that life altering situation yet where she realizes that the only person who can make her happy is her). Let her know that you love her but don't want to force her to stay in a marriage that she feels is the problem. It could back fire but, divorces can be stopped. You too deserve to have someone in your life that loves you. My situation is this, I can't force my H to change. I have been doing all the self reflecting, all the IC and he refuses to look at his issues. I wanted a separation because I can't live like we've been living, it's no longer healthy for me. My hope was that with me gone, he'd have to see his issues or not but if he did and was willing to seek help then I would consider working on our marriage. But you can't have only one person changing and growing and expect there to be peace in your life. My husband tells me if I leave, there is no hope for us, we can't work on the marriage in separate houses. Sadly, you can't work on things that you can't admit.

My A, was a wake up call for me. One that screamed "where the ***k are ur boundaries? Where are ur values? Who have you become? I have had to forgive myself and that ain't easy for the things I did, but I work on it every day. I think your wife will come to her senses, but only if she can see herself not as some victim. Until then, she will always need someone who she feels "completes" her, and that will keep her exactly who she is right now. I feel for you. I wish I had this sight to read so many stories so long ago...I think I would have grown up back then and not made the same mistakes in my life.

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I agree with you totally about projection, it seems clear to me that's most of the story here, and has been since the start of this chaos.

 

Let her know that you love her but don't want to force her to stay in a marriage that she feels is the problem.
I've told her repeatedly that if she wants to leave, she can leave. Now she is, eventually, physically leaving, by her own choice. She still portrays this as me 'kicking her out'. Victim mentality, as you so rightly say. All I've done is refuse to leave the family home, and tell her that I don't want to live together any more if she ends the marriage. But when it comes to 'not forcing her to stay in the marriage', I draw a distinction between this and actively divorcing her. I don't want to divorce her, and so I don't feel I should file. If she really wants to divorce me, she can file and see what happens. I think she'd be surprised. I also don't think she'll do it anytime soon.

 

I think your wife will come to her senses, but only if she can see herself not as some victim.
Well, I hope so. I completely agree with you on this, and I hope she finds the strength to forge a new version of herself without this victimhood that has hamstrung her for so long. If she needs to move out in order to find that strength, then so be it. Sadly, as you say it may take another failed relationship, or more, before she finds a way. There doesn't seem to be much more I can do. It cuts me up badly that she may work it out years from now, when we're history.

 

I wish I had this sight to read so many stories so long ago...

I'm sure plenty here echo that sentiment. I do too. But then I wonder if it would have meant much to me before I went through all this pain myself.
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What I don't get is that she's not saying I suck as a husband, just that she doesn't want to be married any more, and can't 'go back' to how we were before. In my view, this is really about her personal unhappiness generally, rather than the marriage. I completely agree we can't go back, but I can't get her to look at the option of 'going forward' in new ways.

 

I can only speak for myself, but as I am definitely considering getting out of my marriage, I will give you my take on this from my perspective.

 

It's not about my personal unhappiness, as much as it is about insurmountable incompatibility. We have very different sex drives and sexual desires. We have very different communication styles and morality. He doesn't meet my needs in the relationship, and I certainly don't meet his, and I am sick of feeling guilty about that. All of this is stuff I thought we'd negotiate and compromise so the marriage could grow. But 11 years later, we are having the same arguments with no resolution, despite me trying many many techniques to break cycles and do things differently.

 

I am TIRED. I know they say marriage takes work, but should it really take THIS much work? For what? In the end, there isn't much I get out of my marriage. He doesn't seem to like or respect me much as a person - he only wants sex and romance, not communication and true intimacy. He is cruel and abusive when he's angry, which causes me to shut off any feelings for him, so I am not vulnerable to his attacks. He constantly pushes against my boundaries and refuses to accept my opinions on anything.

 

So while some of this might make him a sucky husband for me, he could be an incredible husband for someone else. (If he worked on the anger a bit.)

 

I can only speak for myself, but getting to this point, where I'm almost ready to leave, has taken me several years. Processing, doubting, worrying, trying things, crying, writing, praying... now that I've made it here, it would take a LOT for him to reel me back in. I'd have to see real personal growth and serious effort put into changing things. But despite many many conversations, that's never happened.]

 

Anyway, now that I am here, and I have struggled so much with gaining the strength to leave, I just want to make a break and go.

 

Going forward in new ways holds little interest to me at this point.

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