What is really going on sexually? i want to know..

[bigmanpayne]

sorry for this long post. I have posted in other sections about my relationship with my wife but i wanted to ask for everyone's opinions on one aspect of her new relationship. her sexual relationship with the OM. Here me out though, its not a sad attempt to obsess over her, i really just am starving for info on it - its stressing all of us out (me, my friends, and family).

 

i cant get that off of my mind. dont take this the wrong way, but their sexual relationship is bugging me. I have no idea why, but that sex thing is constantly on my mind. not that i want her back or anything it is just intriging. I am 100% sure that they aren't having sex. i am not stupid. i know that they arent doing anything sexually. i just saw her the other day and she hasnt shaved her self (private area or underarms), doesnt shower at his house or change clothes. she stinks of oil and steel after work. When we were together she didn't even like to kiss me until she showered. and if she is in a sexual relationship with soemone, she definately goes the extra mile and keeps herself up, but with this guy she just isn't doing that.

 

i know everyone will say just dont worry about it, but it is really killing me. i really want answers. at times i feel like they are a legit couple (legit meaning that they both really like each other, etc.) and at times i feel like they are just friends and he is trying to "protect her" from me or something. i just dont know - and it bugs me. i dont even get mad thinking about those 2 being together, i only get mad because i dont know what is going on. i strongly feel like he has a real girlfriend and only uses my wife when his real girlfriend (who if it is who i think it is, is only 18 and not able to spend the night with him as much as he would like) isn't available. but then i a have talked to him and he says he likes her. and when i talked to her yesterday, she said stuff like she feels like they will be together for ever and when i said i didnt even believe they were really together she gave me a sadistic smile and under her breath said "yep, i dont have a boyfriend." it scared me.

 

please dont get me wrong. i really want to know what everyone thinks about it. i am not stressing about it because i will take her back if they are just friends - i swear on the lives of my children that that is not the case. my mind wonders from time to time and i get fixated on things and this has my mind spinning! she would definately have sex with him right now if he wanted too, so its not her - it has to be him. i just dont know. why would he put up with all of this trouble just for "a friend?" see nothing makes sense. she is always saying "my boyfriend" when referring to him, but i have no idea why they arent having sex. we had lunch yesterday to discuss our divorce and she told me that she saw a chance of her and i getting married again some day, then 10 min. later she said she can tell the OM anything, and that he is someone she could spend the rest of her life with.

 

the divorce is going to get done, and i never took the conversation anywhere it didn't need to go. i wasnt trying to get back with her or anything, i promise! I just really want to know what the HELL IS GOING ON! lol. if you knew me you would know that i have compartmentalized this and would be totally OK if i just knew why those 2 weren't having sex, and why she isn't living there, and why she doesn't shower or change clothes there. its incrediblly perplexing me! she says they kiss and hold each other, but i am telling you they both work at the same place and they stink like all hell when leaving, plus if she just strips down to bra and panties he would run for cover because she is wearing (from what i saw) what looks like vintage 1930's top shelf undergarments. in these past 4 weeks she never shaved until the days that we were going to have sex, (we dont do it anymore, dont worry) which just stumps me even more. i swear my mind is going to blow up.

 

please dont tell me that i am fixated on her and want her back because i dont. i just want to know what those 2 are doing. i talk to my friends and family, and nobody can make sense of it. there is a pool (bet) going and my money is on real relationship w/him having a sexual problem. i have 15 dollars in, other people think other things and we all want to know the truth. can anyone give me any answers or ideas? i am going to try to get some answers from her the next time i see her (next weekend) because this thing is killing me!

Edited February 7, 2008 by bigmanpayne

[onward]

Consider that maybe the ya-ya's she gets from him are in the emotional validation and "emotional connection" department, rather than the sex thing. I saw your other thread where you talked about her coming over to your place and having great sex 4 times with you. So... it would appear that you are providing her the sex, and he is providing her the emotional support (hence her comment about talking with him about anything).

 

Your obsessing with their sex activities seems more of the same. I think you should do a 180, put the sex thing on the back burner (who cares really), and talk about her feelings -- listen to her, etc. Think of it as good dating practice for the next lady you meet -- since I believe you said you are done with W and moving onwards. My bet is it will make her think she's had you figured out all wrong, and certainly feel doubt. Oh, and if she wants to bone you, you may consider passing on that too.

[sandflea]

No, big man, you don't. Trust me - you don't want to know, you don't want to watch, you don't even want to think about it. What she and her new man do behind closed doors is - from now on - none of your business.

 

That kind of morbid curiousity is only going to get you hurting more, and make you feel more angry, ashamed, resentful and hurt. Look up No Foolin's recent post. Read it over and over until it sinks in.

 

Here's another article that I think will help you put things in perspective. It's a long read, but it's a good one, and it will help you to understand how bad she just made her life - and what she's ultimately throwing away. In fact, it will help you understand what's going on with both of them.

 

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19930501-000027.html

 

Here's an excerpt:

 

"Why men and woman cheat. Not all affairs are alike; some are even accidental.

 

Day after day in my office I see men and women who have been messing around. They lead secret lives, as they hide themselves from their marriages. They go through wrenching divorces, inflicting pain on their children and their children's children. Or they make desperate, tearful, sweaty efforts at holding on to the shreds of a life they've betrayed. They tell me they have gone through all of this for a quick thrill or a furtive moment of romance. Sometimes they tell me they don't remember making the decision that tore apart their life: "It just happened." Sometimes they don't even know they are being unfaithful. (I tell them: "If you don't know whether what you are doing is an infidelity or not, ask your spouse.") From the outside looking in, it is insane. How could anyone risk everything in life on the turn of a screw? Infidelity was not something people did much in my family, so I always found it strange and noteworthy when people did it in my practice. After almost 30 years of cleaning up the mess after other people's affairs, I wrote a book describing everything about infidelity I'd seen in my practice. The book was Private Lies: Infidelity and the Betrayal of Intimacy (Norton). I thought it might help. Even if the tragedy of AIDS and the humiliation of prominent politicians hadn't stopped it, surely people could not continue screwing around after reading about the absurd destructiveness of it. As you know, people have not stopped having affairs. But many of them feel the need to write or call or drop by and talk to me about it. When I wrote Private Lies, I thought I knew everything there was to know about infidelity. But I know now that there is even more.

 

Accidental Infidelity

 

All affairs are not alike. The thousands of affairs I've seen seem to fall into four broad categories. Most first affairs are cases of accidental infidelity, unintended and uncharacteristic acts of carelessness that really did "just happen." Someone will get drunk, will get caught up in the moment—will just be having a bad day. It can happen to anyone, though some people are more accident prone than others, and some situations are accident zones.

Many times a young man has started his career as a philanderer quite accidentally when he is traveling out of town on a new job with a philandering boss who chooses one of a pair of women and expects the young fellow to entertain the other. The most startling dynamic behind accidental infidelity is misplaced politeness, the feeling that it would be rude to turn down a needy friend's sexual advances. In the debonair gallantry of the moment, the brazen discourtesy to the marriage partner is overlooked altogether.

Both men and women can slip up and have accidental affairs, though the most accident-prone are those who drink, those who travel, those who don't get asked much, those who don't feel very tightly married, those whose running buddies screw around, and those who are afraid to run from a challenge. Most are men.

 

After an accidental infidelity, there is clearly the sense that one's life and marriage have changed. The choices are:

1. To decide that infidelity was a stupid thing to do, to confess it or not to do so, but to resolve to take better precautions in
   
2. To decide you wouldn't have done such a thing unless your husband or wife had let you down, put the blame on your mate, and go home and pick your marriage to death;
   
3. To notice that lightning did not strike you dead, decide this would be a safe and inexpensive hobby to take up, and do it some more;
   
4. To decide that you would not have done such a thing if you were married to the right person, determine that this was meant to be, and declare yourself in love with the stranger in the bed. "

[bigmanpayne]

Consider that maybe the ya-ya's she gets from him are in the emotional validation and "emotional connection" department, rather than the sex thing. I saw your other thread where you talked about her coming over to your place and having great sex 4 times with you. So... it would appear that you are providing her the sex, and he is providing her the emotional support (hence her comment about talking with him about anything).

 

Your obsessing with their sex activities seems more of the same. I think you should do a 180, put the sex thing on the back burner (who cares really), and talk about her feelings -- listen to her, etc. Think of it as good dating practice for the next lady you meet -- since I believe you said you are done with W and moving onwards. My bet is it will make her think she's had you figured out all wrong, and certainly feel doubt. Oh, and if she wants to bone you, you may consider passing on that too.

 

 

i am obsessing because i truly believe this is nothing. this is not about her and i. i am an obsessive person i think. i just want to know what is really going on. thats it. she doesn't talk to anyone. she doesn't keep close friends and nobody (but me) really knows who she is. its not that. in september, i thought her and this OM were messing around (because thats what she told me) but i later found out that he did meet her, and she tried to do something sexual with him while they were driving around, but he didnt want too, and to top it off, he talked about this 18 year old girl that they worked with (he was in the beginning stages of that relationship). my wife was so angry that she came home and told me she was leaving.

 

i just talked to my mom about this and she feels the same way as i do. i dont think they are even in a real relationship of any kind. i think the OM looks at her as a friend and he is dealing with her as such. i am sure that the OM uses her for companionship when his real girlfriend isn't around, but he doesnt see my wife in that manner. she has probably told him some lies to get him to feel sorry for her and thus he allows her to sleep on his couch. he also wants to get back at me for almost killing him in september and making him look like a weak, scared little man (after that incident he would even look at my wife - until 4 weeks ago). i have no doubt that she really likes him, i just dont think he feels the same way. maybe i am wrong. as for the sex with her, i dont do that anymore. she is getting the attention she needs from him - acting like a victim (how a woman who doesnt see her kids is a victim to any rational human being is beyond me) but i just dont think they are an item of any sort.

 

maybe i am wrong. maybe they have a real love that goes beyond sex, but i doubt it. i know her, and she doesnt talk about anything real. she only talks about surface crap. this is just intriguing to me thats all. i am moving on, or at least trying too, but this isn't about that. this is a singular focus that is not attatched to my feelings for her or anything like that. this is me putting 433 and 4 together and coming up with 437.

[bigmanpayne]

No, big man, you don't. Trust me - you don't want to know, you don't want to watch, you don't even want to think about it. What she and her new man do behind closed doors is - from now on - none of your business.

 

That kind of morbid curiousity is only going to get you hurting more, and make you feel more angry, ashamed, resentful and hurt. Look up No Foolin's recent post. Read it over and over until it sinks in.

 

Here's another article that I think will help you put things in perspective. It's a long read, but it's a good one, and it will help you to understand how bad she just made her life - and what she's ultimately throwing away. In fact, it will help you understand what's going on with both of them.

 

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19930501-000027.html

 

 

thanks for the link to the article. i read it and i dont think it pertains. this is not about any emotional stuff i swear. no doubt it is none of my business. i am a different type of person. i am not after anything to do with hurting myself emotionally, or obsessing about those two, actually i dont think it is so much about them. if this were my sister and some OM, i would still be talking to friends and family and obsessing about what they are really doing - that is a flaw i have. she is not the "accidental affair" type. she has cheated before, and it was not accidental. she has had some real issues in her life and she isnt thinking as logically as you or i. she would have as much sex with him as humanly possible if he wanted too. she has never been in a relationship where she didnt have sex with her partner (i tried that when we first got together, and she wanted no part of it). i am not trying to tear her down, i am just giving information.

 

she isnt dressing special for him, or even smelling different or anything. i went through her having an affair before, and an almost affair (please save the "you should have seen this coming comments") and she isn't acting that same way. her appearance is important to her when it comes to the men she likes (before and after me) and she isnt even trying with this guy. trust me i am not emotionally involved with this question of their sex life, i am just curious. no matter what they are doing, my feelings are the same and my actions (divorce, kids, moving, etc) are and will be the same.

[Mustang Sally]

Sandflea -

Thanks so much for providing that link.

 

I had read that article before, but a long time ago. It was really good to read it again. In fact, it probably should be required reading for all who post about any sort of infidelity topic.

 

To the OP -

I know you deny it, but it certainly sounds like you are, indeed, obsessing. I think it's understandable, but I don't expect gaining the knowledge that you seek will give you the resolution that you desire. Probably best just to put it behind you, close the door, and move on. Good luck.

[bigmanpayne]

To the OP -

I know you deny it, but it certainly sounds like you are, indeed, obsessing. I think it's understandable, but I don't expect gaining the knowledge that you seek will give you the resolution that you desire. Probably best just to put it behind you, close the door, and move on. Good luck.

 

 

argh. no. i have started the process of moving on. yes, i am mad about the situation she has put our kids in. i dont like anything that is happening. that isn't what the post was about, honestly. if it was i would just so say. i do obsess over a lot of things. i dont know why the Patriots didn't challenge that catch in the SB (it would have been upheld, but i still would have challenged it). when something stumps me, i almost cant rest until i get an answer. i don't bother her about her relationship, or get her to stop or any of that. if i say anything it's mostly about what she is doing to the kids (by not seeing them). the sexual part of this affair is the one thing everyone who knows us talks about. if you knew my W, you would know why i am wondering about that relationship.

 

everyone does the exact same thing as i am doing. we all know how horrible things are, and we all see the bad decisions she's making, but to a person everyone puts that on the back burner and simply wants to know what is going on. lol, no lie. i know i am hurt, and a little broken, and all of that - i cant deny that, but this post is just about what others think of the situation. i have no desires to try to make myself feel better, or worse, i just am curious like everyone (our friends and family) else. i just thought i would ask people here and see what they thought. thats all.

[Mustang Sally]

Ok, then.

Sorry for not giving you the type of feedback you wanted....

 

If she's going around all smelly and disgusting then I guess either a) she's not having sex with him; b) she's having sex with him because he likes that sort of thing; c) who know's about the other guy, but maybe she desires to be unattractive to you when she's not taking care of herself; d) maybe she's depressed and thus not taking care of herself (and likely not having sex with him); etc.

 

Is that more what you had in mind?

 

But again. You do come across as "Methinks the (man) doth protest too much" with your insistance that you are not obsessing over it.

 

I guess my point is, in the end, what in the world does it even matter whether they are or they aren't? That is, if it's true when you say you don't really care (but HAVE to know) and you say it's over between you two...why does it matter? What is it going to change? Can you help me out with that one? Is it just a self-esteem thing? A personal validation thing for you? (Not meaning to be harsh, just wondering.)

[bigmanpayne]

Ok, then.

Sorry for not giving you the type of feedback you wanted....

 

good response. just what i am looking for. your thoughts on their situation even your thoughts on me. thank you.

 

 

If she's going around all smelly and disgusting then I guess either a) she's not having sex with him; b) she's having sex with him because he likes that sort of thing; c) who know's about the other guy, but maybe she desires to be unattractive to you when she's not taking care of herself; d) maybe she's depressed and thus not taking care of herself (and likely not having sex with him); etc.

 

Is that more what you had in mind?

 

we were having sex even though she was still seeing this guy, and before we would do anything she would shave and make herself look good before she saw me. like the day before we did something together, she wasn't shaved, and her underwear were plain, but when i agreed to have her come over after work she had shaved and brought a nice bra and panty set with her which she had in her purse. like i said, if you are going to have sex with her she wont short-change you by being dirty or unshaven. i could buy that depressed part, but she really likes him, you would think she would want to look her best.

 

 

But again. You do come across as "Methinks the (man) doth protest too much" with your insistance that you are not obsessing over it.

 

I guess my point is, in the end, what in the world does it even matter whether they are or they aren't? That is, if it's true when you say you don't really care (but HAVE to know) and you say it's over between you two...why does it matter? What is it going to change? Can you help me out with that one? Is it just a self-esteem thing? A personal validation thing for you? (Not meaning to be harsh, just wondering.)

 

go back and read my post! I am obsessing over it, but not for the reasons you think. i have been posting in for a few weeks and i am always honest. thats who i am. i obsess about certain things. for instance 6 months ago my daughter told me something about this basketball being taken and i still to this day wonder if her and her brother are lying to me, because of some other kid or something. i wonder so much that it consumes my thoughts for days. thats how i am. i have posted many post here and i dont hold back, i tell it all and express my feelings even if it makes me look bad or stupid. i dont care.

 

their sexual relationship or relationship period is just intriging to me. strange as it sounds the truth is i want it to be something meaningful. in a twisted way i want her to be happy. no lie. its a little personal validation, not really a self-esteem thing, and nothing will change. in fact, if they are "just friends" that's even worse in my book. the fact that there is a relationship at all is why i am divorcing her, the lies, the neglect of our children etc. this is just my brain thinking (as it tends to do). finding out will satify my curiosity, but i wont yell in her face, feel any more sad, gloat, or be any more happy no matter what the truth is. thanks for the response, i am not sensitive so nothing is ever too harsh.