What do you make of this?

[Bill]

Background:

 

I dated a girl for a month from about Jan 2nd to Feb 10th. Everything in the relationship was perfect. This feeling was mutual and we both were happy to see each other. About Feb 10th, she broke up with me to go back to her ex-boyfriend who she said she was still not over. He is very mean, and sometimes forces her to do things she doesn't want to do. He is her first boyfriend and she feels bad any time she feels like she is hurting him. She lives at his house right now because her mom and dad can't take her in, due to solid reasons (her mom rented her room out when she left) (her dad lives very far away, and has no room). She has no one else to turn to. I had warned her that she'd be stuck with him like that, and she would be forced to stay with him.

 

We hadn't talked for a month until she recently emailed me 3 days ago. We talked online and she asked me to call her the next day (today). I called her today and talked to her trying to tell her that I could help. She was telling me that she was not happy, but that it was easy for her to stay there as it would be a lot of work to leave him since she lives there. It is almost like she is stuck. I could provide a place for her to live, in my house. I want to know what would be the best way to convince her to come with me, and try to change. She seems to take the easy way out, but always talks about how she would love to see me again, but he won't allow it. We are supposed to meet up in person Wednesday, as a covert operation, behind his back. I am going to talk to her about this whole plan I have, but does anyone have any ideas about this? How could I entice her to take my offer. I would not let her down, and she knows that I will treat her well. But for her, as she said, if anything goes wrong, she would have no where to turn. She said it's just easy to stay with him, even though they don't get along, and if her mother's house was open, she'd go there in a flash.

 

I would really like to get her back. She said she always wanted a soul mate. I asked her if he was her soul mate, she said no. She said her and I are more like that. He would not even let her see me as friends, because she said she was attracted to me, and he knows we've done things together before. She has even told me that she is attracted to me, and that she sees me and always wants to hug and kiss me and is so happy to see me. It is just so sad to see her stuck like this. How can I assure her that she can go with me, and everything would be ok?

[Bill]

What ever you may say for advice, don't try to make me give up on this. She is risking a lot by just coming and talking to me. I will be doing this, so please give me advice for the task at hand.

Background: I dated a girl for a month from about Jan 2nd to Feb 10th. Everything in the relationship was perfect. This feeling was mutual and we both were happy to see each other. About Feb 10th, she broke up with me to go back to her ex-boyfriend who she said she was still not over. He is very mean, and sometimes forces her to do things she doesn't want to do. He is her first boyfriend and she feels bad any time she feels like she is hurting him. She lives at his house right now because her mom and dad can't take her in, due to solid reasons (her mom rented her room out when she left) (her dad lives very far away, and has no room). She has no one else to turn to. I had warned her that she'd be stuck with him like that, and she would be forced to stay with him. We hadn't talked for a month until she recently emailed me 3 days ago. We talked online and she asked me to call her the next day (today). I called her today and talked to her trying to tell her that I could help. She was telling me that she was not happy, but that it was easy for her to stay there as it would be a lot of work to leave him since she lives there. It is almost like she is stuck. I could provide a place for her to live, in my house. I want to know what would be the best way to convince her to come with me, and try to change. She seems to take the easy way out, but always talks about how she would love to see me again, but he won't allow it. We are supposed to meet up in person Wednesday, as a covert operation, behind his back. I am going to talk to her about this whole plan I have, but does anyone have any ideas about this? How could I entice her to take my offer. I would not let her down, and she knows that I will treat her well. But for her, as she said, if anything goes wrong, she would have no where to turn. She said it's just easy to stay with him, even though they don't get along, and if her mother's house was open, she'd go there in a flash. I would really like to get her back. She said she always wanted a soul mate. I asked her if he was her soul mate, she said no. She said her and I are more like that. He would not even let her see me as friends, because she said she was attracted to me, and he knows we've done things together before. She has even told me that she is attracted to me, and that she sees me and always wants to hug and kiss me and is so happy to see me. It is just so sad to see her stuck like this. How can I assure her that she can go with me, and everything would be ok?

[Tony T]

First of all, why do you come here asking for advice when you say right off what kind of advice you want???

 

So, if you want her to come stay with you, ask her. There you go. That's what you want to hear.

 

Now, for the truth. This girl is one world of screwed up. She BROKE UP WITH YOU and went back with a guy who abuses her. This should tell you loads about what kind of problems she has and that she will NOT go for a guy who treats her nice until she learns her lessons. I've been there too many times.

 

She probably will resent you trying to save her and consider that way too nice for her. If she comes to stay with you or have you help her temporarily, she will only be using her to manipulate her abusive guy because her game is with him and NOT you. She will use you to make him jealous and to get away for a while so he will work to have her come back to him...and she will RUN back to him when the time is right.

 

Her situation should not be any of your concern. She broke up with you, remember...that PERFECT relationship she had with you. She has bonded with the abusive behavior of her ex and she's with him now. No matter what she tells you, sane people do not stay in situations they don't like. They also don't go back to situations they got out of that were abusive. She is with him and no matter what she tells you, she WANTS to be there. She is not trapped. She has legs and she has the ability to move on at any time.

 

And, if on the outside possiblity she left and came to stay with you, it would only be temporarily until she could forget why she left her ex...and go right back to him. This is a pattern that is hers, she owns it, etc.

 

So, I gave you what you want. Exactly how to see if she'll leave this guy. Just ask her to come stay with you.

 

Let me also tell you, this girl with NOT go for a nice guy like you for a very long time. She doesn't want a perfect relationship. That is just way too foreign to her. She wants chaos. That is why she left that PERFECT relationship she had with you. That's probably what she grew up in and that's what she's comfortable with. She was probably emotionally and/or physically abused as a child and she equates that with love. She probably doesn't understand why she gravitates back to this guy but she will someday, hopefully.

 

Meanwhile, don't take my word for any of this. Go see a competent psychologist and let him/her tell you just how this works. It'll be worth your money.

 

I hope she agrees to come stay with you or have you provide her a place so you can watch this play out just like I've stated above. It's just happened way too many times on this board. It's strange and I don't expect you to understand it. That's why I'd like you to see it for yourself.

 

Then, once she leaves you AGAIN, move on to somebody who is emotionally stable and has some decent self esteem. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

 

You're a good guy and I've been exactly where you are before. I just don't want you to feel like the fool I did when I went through this same crap. Gawd, it's an awful feeling to be had.

 

Don't get involved in women's problems unless you're invited to do so. You will never win in those situations. They just want somebody to listen. They don't want you to solve the stuff. You must be a good listener because that's why she's calling you. Nice guy you are!!!

[Ed]

Bill,

 

I will not give you advice for this "task at hand". Asking for that kind of advice, in this kind of situation, is like asking me or someone else to tell you how to hurt yourself. I just won't do it.

 

I read Tony's post to you. He has given you invaluable information in a few short paragraphs that didn't take long to type, but takes most people years to learn and understand. You should read and re-read his post carefully and try your darndest to get something out of it. I won't be surprised if you don't. Many times we are not able to learn from others mistakes. You may not be able understand this without actually going through it, but I, like Tony, will not encourage it in the least.

 

This woman is on very shaky ground. She willingly chose to be where she is. You can't save her from herself. You may be able to somehow convince her get out of this living arrangement, but she will not appreciate it in the way you want her to. On top of that, even if you did, it is unlikely she would be able to uphold her end of a stable relationship with you at this time. Going through with this will put your heart and your health at high risk, with very little chance of success.

 

The very best chance you have of EVER having a healthy, stable love relationship with this woman is to have no contact with her at all for several years. If, at that time, you have not found someone else with a better grip on life and you want to see how she is doing, look her up and see if she is in any better shape. This is your best option.

 

I know it's not what you want to hear, but that's what I have say.

[sparkle]

Tony and Ed couldn't be more right. Please listen to their advice, even though it's not what you're looking for.

 

I know it's difficult, and the truth hurts, but you'll be getting yourself into a deeper, much more painful mess by trying to help her out and win her back. It's just not worth it.

 

You sound like a wonderful person, and you deserve someone who will be able to appreciate every bit of it.

[Bill]

You said: "Let me also tell you, this girl with NOT go for a nice guy like you for a very long time. She doesn't want a perfect relationship. That is just way too foreign to her. She wants chaos. That is why she left that PERFECT relationship she had with you. That's probably what she grew up in and that's what she's comfortable with. She was probably emotionally and/or physically abused as a child and she equates that with love. She probably doesn't understand why she gravitates back to this guy but she will someday, hopefully. "

 

That is VERY true. She did have an abusive father, but she said he loved her. Abuse =/= love.

 

"Don't get involved in women's problems unless you're invited to do so. You will never win in those situations. They just want somebody to listen. They don't want you to solve the stuff. You must be a good listener because that's why she's calling you. Nice guy you are!!! "

 

I was invited by her, she said she needed my help. This of course was a month ago, and then she fell into this situation. I am offering the help, and I won't make any mistakes this time. If she leaves again, then I know it was never meant to be. I am prepared to battle this from both sides, having him possibly not want her anymore, so she realizes what a freak he really was.

 

I do thank you for your post. It has been most helpful. A very well written response and true.

 

First of all, why do you come here asking for advice when you say right off what kind of advice you want??? So, if you want her to come stay with you, ask her. There you go. That's what you want to hear. Now, for the truth. This girl is one world of screwed up. She BROKE UP WITH YOU and went back with a guy who abuses her. This should tell you loads about what kind of problems she has and that she will NOT go for a guy who treats her nice until she learns her lessons. I've been there too many times. She probably will resent you trying to save her and consider that way too nice for her. If she comes to stay with you or have you help her temporarily, she will only be using her to manipulate her abusive guy because her game is with him and NOT you. She will use you to make him jealous and to get away for a while so he will work to have her come back to him...and she will RUN back to him when the time is right. Her situation should not be any of your concern. She broke up with you, remember...that PERFECT relationship she had with you. She has bonded with the abus

 

[Bill]

Let me also tell you, this girl with NOT go for a nice guy like you for a very long time. She doesn't want a perfect relationship. That is just way too foreign to her. She wants chaos. That is why she left that PERFECT relationship she had with you. That's probably what she grew up in and that's what she's comfortable with. She was probably emotionally and/or physically abused as a child and she equates that with love. She probably doesn't understand why she gravitates back to this guy but she will someday, hopefully.

She did have a abusive father. You are correct in that assumption. She only recently learned that he never loved her, when he told her she could not come live with him. He was very mean to her on the phone, and a drunk and drug abuser.

Don't get involved in women's problems unless you're invited to do so. You will never win in those situations. They just want somebody to listen. They don't want you to solve the stuff. You must be a good listener because that's why she's calling you. Nice guy you are!!!

She did invite me to help in her problems. Feb 15th to be exact, she asked if I could help her leave him. She said that he always gets his way with her. She said if she was away from him, and didn't see him, that she could make it.

 

I plan to attack this situation by making him angry at me taking her to talk to her. This will DEFINATELY upset him. I want to make him question his relationship with her, because she is NOT allowed to see me at all. He won't even let us be friends. However, she is going to see me tomorrow, in a nice covert operation. I want him to know that she still feels for me, that is the reason she is coming with me tomorrow. I want to convince her that she HAS options. It's easy for her to stay there, but I know in person, I have an advantage over him. I'm going to try to reason with her. I want her to realize what is going on.

 

If she leaves me again, like you said Tony, then it was never meant to be. You were very correct in your post, and it was well written. The only thing is, you had it a little wrong, she is stuck right now, because she is living there and has no where else to live. I am the ONLY person who can help her. I want to help her, so she can help herself.

 

Thank you for your post.

[Rachel]

Bill;

 

I have to say so, but you are prepared to blame absolutely EVERYONE on earth except her.....

 

You forget she is an ADULT woman.....

 

she is having SEX with this man....

 

think about it.

 

Like you said before she left YOU and went to him....

 

AN ACTION OF CHOICE.

 

JUST LIKE she is CHOOSING to stay with this man...

 

Go see a counseler and sort this stuff out.

 

You keep talking about "meant to be", stuff, like as human beings its all about FATE.

 

Fate is good, and all, but at the bottom of it, you are for whatever reason seeing this girl and as an extension, yourself as a victim.... you have gotten all your perspective screwed up. I really think a non-biased third party would benefit you.

 

Good luck... This girl is manipulating you into pity and other emotions.....

 

You need to grow up.

 

 

 

 

 

She did have a abusive father. You are correct in that assumption. She only recently learned that he never loved her, when he told her she could not come live with him. He was very mean to her on the phone, and a drunk and drug abuser.

 

She did invite me to help in her problems. Feb 15th to be exact, she asked if I could help her leave him. She said that he always gets his way with her. She said if she was away from him, and didn't see him, that she could make it. I plan to attack this situation by making him angry at me taking her to talk to her. This will DEFINATELY upset him. I want to make him question his relationship with her, because she is NOT allowed to see me at all. He won't even let us be friends. However, she is going to see me tomorrow, in a nice covert operation. I want him to know that she still feels for me, that is the reason she is coming with me tomorrow. I want to convince her that she HAS options. It's easy for her to stay there, but I know in person, I have an advantage over him. I'm going to try to reason with her. I want her to realize what is going on. If she leaves me again, like you said Tony, then it was never meant to be. You were very correct in your post, and it was well written. The only thing is, you had it a little wrong, she is stuck right now, because she is living there and has no where else to live. I am the ONLY person who can help her. I want to help her, so she can help herself. Thank you for your post.

[Bill]

Last night, I realized I had a dentist appointment today so I would only be able to see her for a very short time. In the morning, about 11am, I was still sleeping and I received a call from her! She called to tell me that we'd go out at 3pm, well that was fine. She called back about 10 minutes later to null that because she found out that he'd be back by 3pm. So we didn't see each other. We were talking for a long time on the phone. After we got off, she called back like 30 minutes later to tell me she found something disturbing. She went to go check her email on hotmail on his computer, but he left his login name and password saved in there. She was curious and logged in under his name to find emails from other girls and emails he sent to her. She also told me about how he has pictures in his room of other girls and him together. She also found a ton of porn in the recent documents, which he told her he didn't have. She was quite upset about all of this.

 

We tomorrow are setting up a sting operation, where I will find out all the information I can about his "computing life". Everything that is typed, said, emailed, sent, read, visited, or even searched will be logged. She is going to bring all this information up to him and leave him if she can get back with her mom. She is trying to see if she can live in the attic at her mom's house. Everything seems to be working out well now. He is also being mean to her. She called me tonight and was talking to me, and I asked if she'd get in trouble for talking to me while he's there, and she said "He can't control me, I don't want him controlling me". She even told me his parents were asking why she hasn't left him yet. He has even been fighting with his own parents. I feel something is going to happen soon. A lot of information has already been uncovered, but more is to come.

 

I didn't expect this today, but it really helps the cause.

 

 

Original Post (as follows)

 

Background:

 

I dated a girl for a month from about Jan 2nd to Feb 10th. Everything in the relationship was perfect. This feeling was mutual and we both were happy to see each other. About Feb 10th, she broke up with me to go back to her ex-boyfriend who she said she was still not over. He is very mean, and sometimes forces her to do things she doesn't want to do. He is her first boyfriend and she feels bad any time she feels like she is hurting him. She lives at his house right now because her mom and dad can't take her in, due to solid reasons (her mom rented her room out when she left) (her dad lives very far away, and has no room). She has no one else to turn to. I had warned her that she'd be stuck with him like that, and she would be forced to stay with him.

 

We hadn't talked for a month until she recently emailed me 3 days ago. We talked online and she asked me to call her the next day (today). I called her today and talked to her trying to tell her that I could help. She was telling me that she was not happy, but that it was easy for her to stay there as it would be a lot of work to leave him since she lives there. It is almost like she is stuck. I could provide a place for her to live, in my house. I want to know what would be the best way to convince her to come with me, and try to change. She seems to take the easy way out, but always talks about how she would love to see me again, but he won't allow it. We are supposed to meet up in person Wednesday, as a covert operation, behind his back. I am going to talk to her about this whole plan I have, but does anyone have any ideas about this? How could I entice her to take my offer. I would not let her down, and she knows that I will treat her well. But for her, as she said, if anything goes wrong, she would have no where to turn. She said it's just easy to stay with him, even though they don't get along, and if her mother's house was open, she'd go there in a flash.

 

I would really like to get her back. She said she always wanted a soul mate. I asked her if he was her soul mate, she said no. She said her and I are more like that. He would not even let her see me as friends, because she said she was attracted to me, and he knows we've done things together before. She has even told me that she is attracted to me, and that she sees me and always wants to hug and kiss me and is so happy to see me. It is just so sad to see her stuck like this. How can I assure her that she can go with me, and everything would be ok?

[clia]

Bill, Bill, Bill...why are you getting involved in this "sting" operation? If she wants to do it, let her do it, but you don't need to dump yourself in the middle of it! What he is up to is NONE of YOUR business. If she wants to be junior highish and snoop to find out details about his life, then let her do it. That's not your bag, baby. And you risk really pissing him off. This is between her and him. Not you.

 

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. Actions speak louder than words. She can fill your ears with flowery sentiment, but until she walks out the door and doesn't speak to him again all of those words mean NOTHING.

 

This truly does not help your cause at all. Do you find it funny that all of a sudden when she realizes that she might have some competition in his realm she comes running to you? (Again!) Did it ever occur to you that she might be using you to make him jealous? Or she might be using you to feed her own insecurity in her relationship with him?

 

Honestly I think the best thing for you to do is to cut off contact with this girl. Give her a chance to miss you. What's going to happen soon is that you are going to get hurt again and go through all the same crap you went through for the past month. Any healing you've done will be null and void and you will be right back where you started. I know you've known this girl for all of two months and think she's the best thing since sliced bread, but possibly you should give some credence to the objective viewpoints you have received here. When you're stuck in the middle of a mess, it's often subjectively hard to realize how messy it truly is.

Last night, I realized I had a dentist appointment today so I would only be able to see her for a very short time. In the morning, about 11am, I was still sleeping and I received a call from her! She called to tell me that we'd go out at 3pm, well that was fine. She called back about 10 minutes later to null that because she found out that he'd be back by 3pm. So we didn't see each other. We were talking for a long time on the phone. After we got off, she called back like 30 minutes later to tell me she found something disturbing. She went to go check her email on hotmail on his computer, but he left his login name and password saved in there. She was curious and logged in under his name to find emails from other girls and emails he sent to her. She also told me about how he has pictures in his room of other girls and him together. She also found a ton of porn in the recent documents, which he told her he didn't have. She was quite upset about all of this. We tomorrow are setting up a sting operation, where I will find out all the information I can about his "computing life". Everything that is typed, said, emailed, sent, read, visited, or even searched will be logged. She is going to bring all this information up to him and leave him if she can get back with her mom. She is trying to see if she can live in the attic at her mom's house. Everything seems to be working out well now. He is also being mean to her. She called me tonight and was talking to me, and I asked if she'd get in trouble for talking to me while he's there, and she said "He can't control me, I don't want him controlling me". She even told me his parents were asking why she hasn't left him yet. He has even been fighting with his own parents. I feel something is going to happen soon. A lot of information has already been uncovered, but more is to come. I didn't expect this today, but it really helps the cause. Original Post (as follows) Background: I dated a girl for a month from about Jan 2nd to Feb 10th. Everything in the relationship was perfect. This feeling was mutual and we both were happy to see each other. About Feb 10th, she broke up with me to go back to her ex-boyfriend who she said she was still not over. He is very mean, and sometimes forces her to do things she doesn't want to do. He is her first boyfriend and she feels bad any time she feels like she is hurting him. She lives at his house right now because her mom and dad can't take her in, due to solid reasons (her mom rented her room out when she left) (her dad lives very far away, and has no room). She has no one else to turn to. I had warned her that she'd be stuck with him like that, and she would be forced to stay with him. We hadn't talked for a month until she recently emailed me 3 days ago. We talked online and she asked me to call her the next day (today). I called her today and talked to her trying to tell her that I could help. She was telling me that she was not happy, but that it was easy for her to stay there as it would be a lot of work to leave him since she lives there. It is almost like she is stuck. I could provide a place for her to live, in my house. I want to know what would be the best way to convince her to come with me, and try to change. She seems to take the easy way out, but always talks about how she would love to see me again, but he won't allow it. We are supposed to meet up in person Wednesday, as a covert operation, behind his back. I am going to talk to her about this whole plan I have, but does anyone have any ideas about this? How could I entice her to take my offer. I would not let her down, and she knows that I will treat her well. But for her, as she said, if anything goes wrong, she would have no where to turn. She said it's just easy to stay with him, even though they don't get along, and if her mother's house was open, she'd go there in a flash. I would really like to get her back. She said she always wanted a soul mate. I asked her if he was her soul mate, she said no. She said her and I are more like that. He would not even let her see me as friends, because she said she was attracted to me, and he knows we've done things together before. She has even told me that she is attracted to me, and that she sees me and always wants to hug and kiss me and is so happy to see me. It is just so sad to see her stuck like this. How can I assure her that she can go with me, and everything would be ok?

[sideshow bob]

why is she with a guy who she doesn't even trust? what is this sting operation going to prove anyway? she already knows she can't trust him. why is she wasting her time trying to prove a fact?

 

why is she getting YOU involved? you obviously really like this girl and she obviously really likes this guy. it's a no win situation for the both of you. nothing will be acheived.

 

how did she know his password to his hotmail account anyway? i don't know about anyone elses browser but if i hit the back button i still have to log in again.

 

a sting operation? this is one unstable girl.

 

danger: keep out.

[Rachel]

Bill, Bill, Bill...why are you getting involved in this "sting" operation? If she wants to do it, let her do it, but you don't need to dump yourself in the middle of it! What he is up to is NONE of YOUR business. If she wants to be junior highish and snoop to find out details about his life, then let her do it. That's not your bag, baby. And you risk really pissing him off. This is between her and him. Not you. I've said it once, and I'll say it again. Actions speak louder than words. She can fill your ears with flowery sentiment, but until she walks out the door and doesn't speak to him again all of those words mean NOTHING. This truly does not help your cause at all. Do you find it funny that all of a sudden when she realizes that she might have some competition in his realm she comes running to you? (Again!) Did it ever occur to you that she might be using you to make him jealous? Or she might be using you to feed her own insecurity in her relationship with him? Honestly I think the best thing for you to do is to cut off contact with this girl. Give her a chance to miss you. What's going to happen soon is that you are going to get hurt again and go through all the same crap you went through for the past month. Any healing you've done will be null and void and you will be right back where you started. I know you've known this girl for all of two months and think she's the best thing since sliced bread, but possibly you should give some credence to the objective viewpoints you have received here. When you're stuck in the middle of a mess, it's often subjectively hard to realize how messy it truly is.

[Rachel]

If there is nothing in between him and her, then

 

why is she upset about the e-mails, etc. pictures in

 

his bedroom with other girls.... right there is your p roof.

 

The fact that SHE is UPSET, means she CARES.....

 

......... and NOT about YOU....

 

GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD, N-O-T A-B-O-U-T Y-O-U

 

Notice she has not said, I LOVE YOU BILL, take me back.

 

I miss us, Bill, take me back.... I was fool....

 

You are a total idiot. You really are ....

 

You think you are being HERO.... you're just

 

being USED.

 

Actually you are using passive agressive behavior

 

yourself.... I wonder what it will take to open

 

your eyes.

 

That's the TEN MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION!!!!!!!

 

 

 

why is she with a guy who she doesn't even trust? what is this sting operation going to prove anyway? she already knows she can't trust him. why is she wasting her time trying to prove a fact? why is she getting YOU involved? you obviously really like this girl and she obviously really likes this guy. it's a no win situation for the both of you. nothing will be acheived. how did she know his password to his hotmail account anyway? i don't know about anyone elses browser but if i hit the back button i still have to log in again. a sting operation? this is one unstable girl.

 

danger: keep out.

[Bill]

whoa whoa whoa there..

 

SHE DID SAY

 

"Notice she has not said, I LOVE YOU BILL, take me back.

 

I miss us, Bill, take me back.... I was fool.... "

 

Sorry if I forgot to mention this...

If there is nothing in between him and her, then why is she upset about the e-mails, etc. pictures in his bedroom with other girls.... right there is your p roof. The fact that SHE is UPSET, means she CARES.....

 

......... and NOT about YOU.... GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD, N-O-T A-B-O-U-T Y-O-U

 

Notice she has not said, I LOVE YOU BILL, take me back. I miss us, Bill, take me back.... I was fool....

 

You are a total idiot. You really are ....

 

You think you are being HERO.... you're just

 

being USED. Actually you are using passive agressive behavior yourself.... I wonder what it will take to open your eyes. That's the TEN MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION!!!!!!!