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Do I have another shot with girl who left me for her best friend?


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My ex, Casey, broke it off at the beginning of February when things seemed to be going great. We had been fighting a lot - mostly because she had been spending a ton of time with her best friend which was unusual because she generally only wanted to be around me - but after me saying "maybe we should break up" she got herself together and our relationship seemed more affectionate and more communicative than ever before. When I ask her later why she ended it she said it had to do with a time where I yelled at her for instantly wanting to move with me to college instead of considering her own future. I have to admit that the conversation was a little mean but I meant it to help her, not push her away. Anyway, she said that she started drifting from there.

 

Anyway. As we are laying in bed together - out of the blue - she goes "will you be my best friend?" She says, "think about it, you know it's for the best". To be honest, the details of our "breaking up" are shaky in my mind partially because I blocked them out and went into a bit of denial. In my mind I think we both thought it was a temporary thing. After we broke up I avoided her the next day and she came up to be and hugged me etc. saying it would be OK. I was pretty angry that she broke things off and I was pretty snappy for the next few weeks. She would say things like "Well, I want to get back together but when you act like that it messes things up!" and things like "this morning I was thinking how happy I would be waking up to you". Meanwhile she's spending every waking moment with this best friend of hers.

 

Weeks later, one day, I decide to completely ignore her phone calls. I decide to take control and not be the needy one who calls and cries, etc. So, after she calls me 5 times and leaves me voicemails about "how she's worried I got in a car crash because I'm not answering my phone" I call her back. She invites me over for our Sunday night TV ritual and I grudingly agree to go. After the show she invites me in her bedroom to talk. We are playfully cuddling etc and she is being very affectionate as always. This is when *the* conversation started. She mentioned that her best friend, Penny, had made out with some girl from work, Chelsea, at a party. I finally had the guts to ask - "did YOU kiss Penny at the party?" She said no. I said "do you swear on your life?" She said yes. I said, "do you swear on MY life?" She said no. I asked "how long has this been going on?" and she started crying her eyes out. I have never seen anyone cry this much or this hard. Here I am, completely shocked and heartbroken, comforting my ex who is collapsed on my shoulder, heaving. After the comforting, she drives me home and we kiss, crying, outside my house. It's the last kiss we've had.

 

After constantly badgering her about how she should give me another chance, I decide to go over to her house and tell her "I'm letting her go". I decide that giving her the "I just want you to be happy" speech would be the best move in showing her that I've changed and that I really want to show her I care. Once again, she cries her eyes out. She says "that's true love" and she hugs me and cries. Basically, I've told her I accept that she will be hanging out with Penny now and it's not my place to try to and stop her from doing so.

 

In the meantime, we are hanging out like friends. We go out to dinner, she holds my hand, and we have conversations. It is like a friendship with a little extra affection. When she hugs me she nuzzles her face into my neck and often kisses my neck lightly. One time we went out somewhere and she made me sit next to her in the booth and she held my hand and put her arm around me and made prolonged eye-contact. It was the opposite of platonic, that's for sure. When we got back to her house we had a brief sexual encounter, it ended when she said "no! i can't hurt Penny like this" and we stopped. She said she wasn't mad or upset about it, though.

 

April 4th comes. Our one-year anniversary. I write her a 5 page letter totally eviscerating myself. It talks about how much I've changed and why I acted like I did in our relationship from a psychological standpoint. It also is very sentimental and basically puts up the question - "is what you have now anything like what we have?" Essentially, I beg her to tell me that what she has with Penny is as passionate as our love so that I know it's possible to find again so I can move on. She calls me and says the letter "made her feel sad - she cried - but it also made her happy and 'feel like dancing'". She talks to me about all kinds of things unrelated to the letter - movies, etc. and I finally tell her I'll be over in like an hour. I go to talk to her and basically ask "well - who do you choose" and she said "Penny. I have to choose her because she's NEVER done anything to hurt me. I could never break up with someone who hasn't done anything to me. That's not the kind of person I am. Regardless of whether or not I have stronger feelings for you." WHAT? I ask her again - do you have a stronger connection than what we had? She says "nothing will ever be like that. I could never care about anyone as much as I cared for you. But I do know that my connection with Penny is strong. I love her and care for her a lot."

 

So, she's admitted that she has stronger feelings for me but can't leave this other girl because she's a saint? It's true. I was pretty horrible in the relationship. She told me that I made her cry almost every day but when I made her happy she was the happiest person alive. This girl on the other hand totally slaves over her. She is kind of the reformed slut who dropped all her friends and completely opened up to Casey. She slept with a ton of guys and was essentially hetereosexual (this is another thing I don't understand) but reformed her lifestyle and probably fell in love with Casey's caring and non-judgmental attitude. Now that I recognize the things I did to make her upset, and I'm mature, I don't understand what the problem is. Our passion was like no other, even she says it after we've broken up. I ask her what she wants from me and she says to "be my best friend". I asked her if she was saying she liked me strictly platonically. Keep in mind that with these questions I told her I was begging her to tell me she didn't like me so I could move on. She couldn't answer the question saying "either way I answer will be bad". Now, if I want her to tell me she doesn't want me anymore, how could that be bad...unless she does? Hm. Anyway, Penny showed up so we couldn't talk anymore. The three of us went out to lunch and I talked to Casey the whole time, Penny didn't even talk. (That's another thing - whenever the three of us are together Casey and I talk about anything and everything while Penny remains silent, even when I try to include her directly.)

 

What do I do with this? I've considered going NC and I didn't talk to her at all yesterday which is a first since we met. She didn't call me either though which has me worried. I know she'll call at least once this weekend though. Should I not pick up? If I do, should I tell her I won't talk to her unless SHE writes ME a letter first? I could be her "best friend" or I could go NC and show her she can't have me unless it's as a significant other. I'm afraid to go NC because she might decide she can easily live without me and completely move on. Does she want me or not though, that is the real question. And if so, what do I do about this other girl? The thing is, I think Casey is loving being in-control right now. Both Penny and I are giving her infinite amounts of attention which she isn't used to (I guess you could say she was the sidekick in our relationship). I don't know whether I need to humor her by keeping it up to make her feel good or deflate her ego to tell her that she can't keep me around as a friend.

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My ex, Casey, broke it off at the beginning of February when things seemed to be going great. We had been fighting a lot - mostly because she had been spending a ton of time with her best friend which was unusual because she generally only wanted to be around me - but after me saying "maybe we should break up" she got herself together and our relationship seemed more affectionate and more communicative than ever before. When I ask her later why she ended it she said it had to do with a time where I yelled at her for instantly wanting to move with me to college instead of considering her own future. I have to admit that the conversation was a little mean but I meant it to help her, not push her away. Anyway, she said that she started drifting from there.

 

Anyway. As we are laying in bed together - out of the blue - she goes "will you be my best friend?" She says, "think about it, you know it's for the best". To be honest, the details of our "breaking up" are shaky in my mind partially because I blocked them out and went into a bit of denial. In my mind I think we both thought it was a temporary thing. After we broke up I avoided her the next day and she came up to be and hugged me etc. saying it would be OK. I was pretty angry that she broke things off and I was pretty snappy for the next few weeks. She would say things like "Well, I want to get back together but when you act like that it messes things up!" and things like "this morning I was thinking how happy I would be waking up to you". Meanwhile she's spending every waking moment with this best friend of hers.

 

Weeks later, one day, I decide to completely ignore her phone calls. I decide to take control and not be the needy one who calls and cries, etc. So, after she calls me 5 times and leaves me voicemails about "how she's worried I got in a car crash because I'm not answering my phone" I call her back. She invites me over for our Sunday night TV ritual and I grudingly agree to go. After the show she invites me in her bedroom to talk. We are playfully cuddling etc and she is being very affectionate as always. This is when *the* conversation started. She mentioned that her best friend, Penny, had made out with some girl from work, Chelsea, at a party. I finally had the guts to ask - "did YOU kiss Penny at the party?" She said no. I said "do you swear on your life?" She said yes. I said, "do you swear on MY life?" She said no. I asked "how long has this been going on?" and she started crying her eyes out. I have never seen anyone cry this much or this hard. Here I am, completely shocked and heartbroken, comforting my ex who is collapsed on my shoulder, heaving. After the comforting, she drives me home and we kiss, crying, outside my house. It's the last kiss we've had.

 

After constantly badgering her about how she should give me another chance, I decide to go over to her house and tell her "I'm letting her go". I decide that giving her the "I just want you to be happy" speech would be the best move in showing her that I've changed and that I really want to show her I care. Once again, she cries her eyes out. She says "that's true love" and she hugs me and cries. Basically, I've told her I accept that she will be hanging out with Penny now and it's not my place to try to and stop her from doing so.

 

In the meantime, we are hanging out like friends. We go out to dinner, she holds my hand, and we have conversations. It is like a friendship with a little extra affection. When she hugs me she nuzzles her face into my neck and often kisses my neck lightly. One time we went out somewhere and she made me sit next to her in the booth and she held my hand and put her arm around me and made prolonged eye-contact. It was the opposite of platonic, that's for sure. When we got back to her house we had a brief sexual encounter, it ended when she said "no! i can't hurt Penny like this" and we stopped. She said she wasn't mad or upset about it, though.

 

April 4th comes. Our one-year anniversary. I write her a 5 page letter totally eviscerating myself. It talks about how much I've changed and why I acted like I did in our relationship from a psychological standpoint. It also is very sentimental and basically puts up the question - "is what you have now anything like what we have?" Essentially, I beg her to tell me that what she has with Penny is as passionate as our love so that I know it's possible to find again so I can move on. She calls me and says the letter "made her feel sad - she cried - but it also made her happy and 'feel like dancing'". She talks to me about all kinds of things unrelated to the letter - movies, etc. and I finally tell her I'll be over in like an hour. I go to talk to her and basically ask "well - who do you choose" and she said "Penny. I have to choose her because she's NEVER done anything to hurt me. I could never break up with someone who hasn't done anything to me. That's not the kind of person I am. Regardless of whether or not I have stronger feelings for you." WHAT? I ask her again - do you have a stronger connection than what we had? She says "nothing will ever be like that. I could never care about anyone as much as I cared for you. But I do know that my connection with Penny is strong. I love her and care for her a lot."

 

So, she's admitted that she has stronger feelings for me but can't leave this other girl because she's a saint? It's true. I was pretty horrible in the relationship. She told me that I made her cry almost every day but when I made her happy she was the happiest person alive. This girl on the other hand totally slaves over her. She is kind of the reformed slut who dropped all her friends and completely opened up to Casey. She slept with a ton of guys and was essentially hetereosexual (this is another thing I don't understand) but reformed her lifestyle and probably fell in love with Casey's caring and non-judgmental attitude. Now that I recognize the things I did to make her upset, and I'm mature, I don't understand what the problem is. Our passion was like no other, even she says it after we've broken up. I ask her what she wants from me and she says to "be my best friend". I asked her if she was saying she liked me strictly platonically. Keep in mind that with these questions I told her I was begging her to tell me she didn't like me so I could move on. She couldn't answer the question saying "either way I answer will be bad". Now, if I want her to tell me she doesn't want me anymore, how could that be bad...unless she does? Hm. Anyway, Penny showed up so we couldn't talk anymore. The three of us went out to lunch and I talked to Casey the whole time, Penny didn't even talk. (That's another thing - whenever the three of us are together Casey and I talk about anything and everything while Penny remains silent, even when I try to include her directly.)

 

What do I do with this? I've considered going NC and I didn't talk to her at all yesterday which is a first since we met. She didn't call me either though which has me worried. I know she'll call at least once this weekend though. Should I not pick up? If I do, should I tell her I won't talk to her unless SHE writes ME a letter first? I could be her "best friend" or I could go NC and show her she can't have me unless it's as a significant other. I'm afraid to go NC because she might decide she can easily live without me and completely move on. Does she want me or not though, that is the real question. And if so, what do I do about this other girl? The thing is, I think Casey is loving being in-control right now. Both Penny and I are giving her infinite amounts of attention which she isn't used to (I guess you could say she was the sidekick in our relationship). I don't know whether I need to humor her by keeping it up to make her feel good or deflate her ego to tell her that she can't keep me around as a friend.

 

You can't rationalize love to someone. It doesn't work that way. Love is not a rational feeling. Stop trying to tell her why you are the best for her because trust me, it won't work.

 

Go with NC. You can't be best friends with someone you are in love with. It just will not work! She knows she has you on a string and is not worried about losing you. As long as you are her friend you will always be "plan b" or "plan never."

 

Get on with your life. Stop responding to her contact. In this situation she wants you to be the girlfriend and her girlfriend to be her lover. Is that what you want? It's a win/win for her and win/lose for you.

 

What can she give you as a friend than none of your other friends can give you (sex excluded and relationships are much more than sex). Think about that one for a minute.

 

The bottom line is that as long as you are in love with her but can not have her, you will simply not heal and move on. The quickest way for you to heal and become the strong, confident man you want to be is to break it off with her. There are other women out there who will appreciate you for who you are but they'll never get to know you as long as you are hooked on this girl.

 

Break it off. If she really wants to be with you nothing will stop her from contacting you in the future. Just don't play the "I'll be your pal" game. It will only hurt you.

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Thanks Cali Guy, I appreciate you responding.

 

What do I do when she calls, though? Do I not pick up the phone? That seems like a move out of anger and might let her know she still has control over me. If I pick up the phone, should I just give her an ultimatum? I am tempted to say "you need to write me a letter with your feelings before we can go from here" or to say "you can't have me as a friend, so bye." Which would accomplish the most?

 

What about the mixed signals? I know she still feels - she went into a depression after we broke up, she cried at the letter, often takes her affection out of the 'platonic range', and she admitted that will never have a stronger connection with anyone. I don't know what to do. Like I said, if she would tell me "I don't have feelings for you" I could move on. But she won't do it. She says she can't.

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Thanks Cali Guy, I appreciate you responding.

 

What do I do when she calls, though? Do I not pick up the phone? That seems like a move out of anger and might let her know she still has control over me.

 

Get busy with life. Hang out with friends, dive into work, invest time in new hobbies and work on personal improvement. If your life is so busy with things that help you, then you won't have time to ponder over the past. You waste emotional energy on things that "could have been" when it's better spent on today. Even Jesus said that.

 

Don't worry about tomorrow, My Father will take care of tomorrow. Does he not feed the sparrows? How much more are you worth to my heavenly Father than a sparrow?

 

In other words, spend time on now and today and not yesterday and tomorrow.

 

If I pick up the phone, should I just give her an ultimatum?

 

You're too busy to take her calls, got it?

 

I am tempted to say "you need to write me a letter with your feelings before we can go from here" or to say "you can't have me as a friend, so bye." Which would accomplish the most?

 

Indifference is the opposite of love, not hate. You will say much more to her by saying nothing at all than 1000 words said to her over time.

 

Silence is a friend who never betrays.

Silence speaks volumes.

 

What about the mixed signals? I know she still feels - she went into a depression after we broke up, she cried at the letter, often takes her affection out of the 'platonic range', and she admitted that will never have a stronger connection with anyone.

 

She's confused. The more you hang around her, the more confused you will make her and she'll never get off the fence. The less time you spend with her, the less time you spend taking her calls or answering her emails, the more time you give her to clear her head and decide what is best for her. You can not control her and anything you do to try and force her to you will merely push her away. Remember, if you begin to chase her, she will run away. You can not cage someone into a relationship. It takes two people to make it work and she's not willing to make it work. At least not right now. Give her the freedom to love you again if she decides by giving her all the space in the world.

 

I don't know what to do. Like I said, if she would tell me "I don't have feelings for you" I could move on. But she won't do it. She says she can't.

 

Believe NONE of what people say to you and ALL of what they do. In other words, her actions show you that she doesn't want to be with you right now. Words are meant to deceive. She is trying to keep you on a string as a back up plan. Do you really want to be her "plan b?" I sure wouldn't want to be. To be able to love and respect someone else, you first have to learn how to love and respect yourself.

 

The easy way to remember that is in my signature line. "Never make someone a priority in your life who only sees you as an OPTION."

 

Got it?

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Indifference is the opposite of love, not hate. You will say much more to her by saying nothing at all than 1000 words said to her over time.

 

Silence is a friend who never betrays.

Silence speaks volumes.

 

Speaks volumes saying what though? I don't want to show indifference because the reason we broke up is because she thought I was indifferent. That is the dilemma: I can't be indifferent because she won't see that I've changed and can be loving. If I go out of my way to ignore her that will only anger her and I'll never have a shot of getting what I want. She'll just say "**** it and good riddance" and forget about me as an option.

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Speaks volumes saying what though? I don't want to show indifference because the reason we broke up is because she thought I was indifferent. That is the dilemma: I can't be indifferent because she won't see that I've changed and can be loving. If I go out of my way to ignore her that will only anger her and I'll never have a shot of getting what I want. She'll just say "**** it and good riddance" and forget about me as an option.

 

So, she's admitted that she has stronger feelings for me but can't leave this other girl because she's a saint?

 

Her actions show you that she wants to be with this other girl. So what if you show her more attention, HER attention isn't focused on you. Her feelings are being lavished on someone else.

 

Is this the kind of girl you want to be with or would you rather be with someone who is totally into you?

 

The choice is yours. Suffice to say if you give her time and work on yourself and improve, when/if she does come around you'll be in a better position to communicate with her effectively and meet each other's needs.

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She texted me today and I didn't respond. She said she was hanging out with a friend of hers that I mentioned missing. She obviously wanted me to ask her if I could tag along and I'm glad I didn't fall into that trap.

 

The hard part is getting through those weekend nights where I know she's having a great time with her new girlfriend who's stolen my spot in our bed. Ugh.

 

The only thing is, what do I say when she finally asks why I'm ignoring her? I will see at school (will try to avoid this) and we will both be at a concert on April 13th (and I have her ticket!).

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She texted me today and I didn't respond. She said she was hanging out with a friend of hers that I mentioned missing. She obviously wanted me to ask her if I could tag along and I'm glad I didn't fall into that trap.

 

The hard part is getting through those weekend nights where I know she's having a great time with her new girlfriend who's stolen my spot in our bed. Ugh.

 

The only thing is, what do I say when she finally asks why I'm ignoring her? I will see at school (will try to avoid this) and we will both be at a concert on April 13th (and I have her ticket!).

 

 

Again.

 

Pay little attention to what she says.

Pay CLOSE attention to what she does!

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No, but seriously, what should my response be?

 

 

Your response should always be the same.

 

"I'm busy with my life...."

 

She gave up the right to know how you are doing and question you about how you are spending your time when she broke things off. Remember that.

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She called again today and left a voicemail saying she wanted to go out to lunch. She sounded really sad. I ignored her.

 

Now I get this myspace message:

I'm really sorry, but i would really like to talk to someone, you in particular. I've just been really depressed and i need your help, if you would like.

 

It kind of tugs at my heartstrings and sparks my curiosity. Is it right to ignore this? I don't know if I can handle ignoring this. Obviously I'm hoping she will say "I've been depressed because I'm without you" but I don't want to break NC and have her start talking about something else. It's kind of risky.

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Ok CaliGuy, I broke NC after four days. I was barraged on Instant Messenger after ignoring text, phone calls, myspace messages, and the like. She said that if I didn't respond she was going to come to my house. She said that she was thinking about the letter I wrote. It finally sunk in after a few days and she'd been crying all weekend.

 

We hung out and she's still really confused. At the beginning she was like "yeah, I want to move with you to college next year" and then towards the end she was back to her more moderate, indecisive stance. I feel like I blew it because I hung out with her and she still hasn't definitely said she wants to get back together. She's still depressed about having to hurt someone.

 

Should I back off again?

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It's probably best to back off again. She is confused and it might take her losing you to figure out what she wants.

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Ok CaliGuy, I broke NC after four days. I was barraged on Instant Messenger after ignoring text, phone calls, myspace messages, and the like. She said that if I didn't respond she was going to come to my house. She said that she was thinking about the letter I wrote. It finally sunk in after a few days and she'd been crying all weekend.

 

We hung out and she's still really confused. At the beginning she was like "yeah, I want to move with you to college next year" and then towards the end she was back to her more moderate, indecisive stance. I feel like I blew it because I hung out with her and she still hasn't definitely said she wants to get back together. She's still depressed about having to hurt someone.

 

Should I back off again?

 

 

She's confused and doesn't know what to do. Notice the more you pull away, the closer she pulls to you. The closer you pull to her, the more she pulls away.

 

You need to find a balance somewhere OR simply tell her that you can't take her constant indecisiveness and that if she can't make up her mind what she wants you will make it up for her, by walking away.

 

See, you gotta respect yourself before others will respect you.

You gotta love yourself before others will love you.

 

And really, do you want to be with someone so wishy washy?

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