What I'm going to say...

[KittenMoon]

For those familiar with my sitch (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t85246/) I'm responding to my ex's email today. This is what I've got:

 

"Thank you for your email. I think it’s good you’ve spoken with [our friend] about things- she has been a very good listener and a very good friend through this.

 

I think I’d prefer it if you dropped off my stuff while I’m out, or dropped it off at [our friend's] house and I’ll pick it up later. I should be out Friday night and probably Saturday night as well- you can always just look and see if my car is there. If you haven’t realized, I know I left my wine glasses at your place. Also, you were right about the cooling rack- the other day I realized I have two of the same ones. Sorry- I will leave it out or give it to someone for you to pick up.

 

I hope your interview went well, or at least was good practice."

 

 

Do you think this sounds too cold? I don't want to drive him off entirely if he's trying to initiate some sort of contact, but I if he wants to actually talk i want him to ASK for that directly. I'm tired of holding his hand through emotional situations.

 

I don't know what's going through his mind. Could be just emotions from all this. I don't want to see him again right now unless it's for a productive reason- if he's just dropping off stuff I don't want to have to say goodbye AGAIN.

 

What do you all think? Is this both distant and friendly enough?

[destination_unknown]

I dont think it sounds cold, it sounds calm, which is good. The first and last sentences are friendly, and the middle bit about business. No mention of relationship issues / breakup -- thumbs up there

 

I see you got it in there that you wont be sitting in pining for him on fri & sat night :D !! Wiley minx!

 

Its just impossible to tell how he will interpret so the important thing is if you are happy with the balance between friendly / distant.

 

as well, id just sign off with your name

 

hope your feelin at least a lickle better today, and try not to stress too much about the wording of the email

[CaliGuy]

For those familiar with my sitch (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t85246/) I'm responding to my ex's email today. This is what I've got:

 

"Thank you for your email. I think it’s good you’ve spoken with [our friend] about things- she has been a very good listener and a very good friend through this.

 

I think I’d prefer it if you dropped off my stuff while I’m out, or dropped it off at [our friend's] house and I’ll pick it up later. I should be out Friday night and probably Saturday night as well- you can always just look and see if my car is there. If you haven’t realized, I know I left my wine glasses at your place. Also, you were right about the cooling rack- the other day I realized I have two of the same ones. Sorry- I will leave it out or give it to someone for you to pick up.

 

I hope your interview went well, or at least was good practice."

 

 

Do you think this sounds too cold? I don't want to drive him off entirely if he's trying to initiate some sort of contact, but I if he wants to actually talk i want him to ASK for that directly. I'm tired of holding his hand through emotional situations.

 

I don't know what's going through his mind. Could be just emotions from all this. I don't want to see him again right now unless it's for a productive reason- if he's just dropping off stuff I don't want to have to say goodbye AGAIN.

 

What do you all think? Is this both distant and friendly enough?

 

Way way way too much information. Far more than necessary.

 

I would say this:

 

"Thank you for your email. I think I’d prefer it if you dropped off my stuff at [our friend's] house and I’ll pick it up later."

 

That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. You want to be a bit aloof. Show him you don't 'need' him. The more you talk, the more he'll think he has you on the hook.

 

Short, sweet and to the point. Be indifferent.

[KittenMoon]

But I really want him to not forget my wine glasses!

 

And I wanted to get the info about when I'd be away so we don't have to email back and forth anymore. I might take it out though- he really can just check for my car.

 

I just don't want to sound cold and mean- which I'll admit is a bit a problem with me sometimes. I want to be aloof- but friendly from a distance. I know he'll take a short email as anger, not "I don't need you", and react in kind.

 

As for thinking I'm on a hook- you far overestimate his emotional depth. That's been my problem as well. He has a total inability to play mind games. He doesn't scheme, plot, ponder. He plays strategy games all the time but mostly loses because he only considers his own side and can't anticipate anyone else's actions, even people he's played these games with for years.

 

Anyways, I'll trim it up a bit cause you seem like a smart guy, Cali.

[CaliGuy]

But I really want him to not forget my wine glasses!

 

You can live without them. Trust me

 

And I wanted to get the info about when I'd be away so we don't have to email back and forth anymore. I might take it out though- he really can just check for my car.

 

Again, short and sweet is best. Give him little to go on and LOTS to think about. When you give so much information he doesn't have to much to ponder in his own mind, like:

 

"Why is she short with me?"

"What is she up to?"

"Who is she with?"

 

Etc. You see where I am going with this? The more information you give them the less they have to decipher on their own, the less they're thinking about you It's basic human psychology.

 

I just don't want to sound cold and mean-

 

He dumped you right? Can't get much colder/meaner than that.

 

which I'll admit is a bit a problem with me sometimes. I want to be aloof- but friendly from a distance. I know he'll take a short email as anger, not "I don't need you", and react in kind.

 

There's nothing angry about the short message at all. It's saying "Hey, I'm busy, I have a life, I'm not sitting around pining for you." What does it matter if he gets angry now? If he reacts the way you suggest I would question his maturity. Why would you want to be with someone who acts so immature?

 

As for thinking I'm on a hook- you far overestimate his emotional depth. That's been my problem as well. He has a total inability to play mind games. He doesn't scheme, plot, ponder. He plays strategy games all the time but mostly loses because he only considers his own side and can't anticipate anyone else's actions, even people he's played these games with for years.

 

Anyways, I'll trim it up a bit cause you seem like a smart guy, Cali.

 

Looks can be deceiving

 

Seriously. Don't give him so much information. Two sentences is perfectly acceptable. You're not being mean by not kissing up to him and acting like everything is just peachy. It is what it is. This is what he wanted, right? I'm all for giving and moving on but that doesn't mean you forget, either.

 

I'm not saying I am 100% right but given so many people get the right advice and then not do it, only to regret it later, I'm asking you to at least try it this time and see what happens.

 

Remember too, don't email back right away. You're a busy woman with a lot to do. He's not your priority anymore and remember, right now he doesn't feel you are his.

 

Keep that in your mind at all times when communicating with him.

[KittenMoon]

Wow- this is confusing. It's hard to figure this out because he's well, like I've said, a bit immature. And this is what is helping me move forward.

 

I suppose after all the pain I've gone through, I shouldn't be trying to soften his at all. Maybe short and sweet is the best, but I need to give him a bit more than just a sentence or two.

 

Why? Because he's done several things FOR me by emailing. He let me know he misses me, that this isn't just one-sided (it really never was entirely but it gets complicated to explain), and he talked to a friend about this, which is something I asked him to do. Just to talk to someone about his feelings. I'm still a little amazed.

 

Back to editing.

[KittenMoon]

Is this any better?

 

"Thanks for your email.

 

Do you think you could drop off my stuff while I’m out, or drop it off at [our friend's] house and I’ll pick it up later? You can always just look and see if my car is at my place. Just make sure anything you leave isn’t something [my cat] could get into, chew on, or get tangled in (like bag loops or anything).

 

You were right about the cooling rack- I realized I have two of the same ones. Sorry- I will leave it out or give it to someone for you to pick up.

 

I hope your interview went well, or at least was good practice."

[MrAndyFisher]

No contact I think. I think he's trying to make it painless for him

[destination_unknown]

She does need her stuff though!

 

KM, i think any of the drafts are actually fine, your two or calis. cali does have a very good point about the psychology bit.

 

OTH, after six years he knows you and you know him probably inside out and esp since you guys share so many mutual friends (even if he hasnt been around them too much recently) im sure he knows at least a bit of what is going on for you. But it might be a good time to start disengaging with him and everything that happened.

 

ok, i am NOT being helpful and decisive !! My only contribution is that none of the drafts are going to do damage really. You have to make this contact to get your stuff so you gotta say something, its not going to make or break.

 

and just want to add, that i hope that when you get your stuff back that it is positive for you in terms of freeing you from the hurt. it can be hard, kind of empty feeling when you get the stuff back, try to look at it as a freeing thing instead of a sad thing if ya know what i mean?

[KittenMoon]

There's not really a make or break at this point. Something's off.

 

Even if he is trying to initiate some sort of communication at this point, even a reconcilliation, it's not working. I know if we started again now it would get f***ed up real soon and that's it forever. I'd prefer a second chance to occur, if it's going to, sometime in the future.

 

I'm thinking hard. He's tough to deal with sometimes- again, lots of emotional immaturity, no ability for head games, terrible schemer. A total linear thinker. Probably is real unsure of a lot of things right now.

 

I've mentioned this before, but I think he's going through a quarter-life crisis. I think his linear thinking has begun to fail him. Prior to this he had a very direct purpose and career future- now, especially w/o "us" existing anymore, everything is very up in the air. I think he's in for a tough time.

 

But not my issue anymore. I'm trying to keep my emotions at a distance an follow what my head tells me about him. BTW, I was really disengaing right up until this.

[CaliGuy]

Is this any better?

 

"Thanks for your email.

 

Do you think you could drop off my stuff while I’m out, or drop it off at [our friend's] house and I’ll pick it up later? You can always just look and see if my car is at my place. Just make sure anything you leave isn’t something [my cat] could get into, chew on, or get tangled in (like bag loops or anything).

 

You were right about the cooling rack- I realized I have two of the same ones. Sorry- I will leave it out or give it to someone for you to pick up.

 

I hope your interview went well, or at least was good practice."

 

No! A thousand times no. This is way too much information.

 

#1: Don't apologize!

#2: Don't make chit chat!

#3: Too much info is bad!

 

Kitten, I know you want to make sure you get all your stuff back, but stop "asking for his permission" on this. You want your stuff back and you don't want to come off as insecure and I think that's how your message sounds.

 

Please. Just try it this one time and see what happens.

 

"Thanks for your email. Please drop off my stuff at [our friend's] house and I’ll pick it up later. Take care."

 

That's it!! Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Just go with me on this, ok? Short and sweet. It's not mean, your not being apologetic, your not being chatty. You are showing him that you are fine without him and that your stuff is important.

 

He will take your indifference seriously. "Woah, I may have really screwed up here! She usually chats away and always apologizes for silly stuff. Now she is just being frank and to the point. Oh oh, maybe I better re-evaluate myself!"

 

I'm not saying that is what is going to happen, but if you are your typical self then he'll be his typical self with you. In other words, nothing will have changed.

 

Think about what's important to you? Think about how he treated you and the demise of the relationship. Think about how you don't want to go down that road again. Something has to change and I believe it should start with you.

 

Be counter-intuitive! The things that didn't work in the past won't work now. So figure out what did work, figure out how to make yourself stronger and confident and go with that.

 

It won't kill you to try this method. I know it might be uncomfortable to you at first just just try it.

[destination_unknown]

CG is prolly right.

[KittenMoon]

Ug, I'm admittedly verbose, if you can't tell from my postings.

 

I don't want to be curt or put him off if he's reaching out. It was a big step for him to email me, bigger than I've seen in a while. And talking to our friend was a big step too- he's not good discussing personal matters with most people.

 

At the same time, if he's reaching out, it's gotta be more than this.

 

I don't know- I'm tired of feeling like a mother with a teenage son- I never know how he's going to be.

[CaliGuy]

I don't want to be curt or put him off if he's reaching out.

 

Where is my head slap smilie when I need it?! You aren't putting him off. Don't be a second place trophy, be the prize!! Show him you're worth it for him to work to not only have you, but keep you. I don't mean work as in labor I mean EFFORT.

 

It was a big step for him to email me, bigger than I've seen in a while.

 

At this point is means NOTHING! He hasn't said "Let's talk" he's basically giving you your stuff back. At this point anything you do to even hint that you're buddy buddy again or want to get back together with him will cause him to think "Ok, I got her in my back pocket anytime I want her."

 

Is that what you want him to think?

 

And talking to our friend was a big step too- he's not good discussing personal matters with most people.

 

What exactly did he tell the mutual friend?

 

At the same time, if he's reaching out, it's gotta be more than this.

 

At this point you don't know so please don't assume. Make yourself and your needs number one.

 

I don't know- I'm tired of feeling like a mother with a teenage son- I never know how he's going to be.

 

Keep that in your head. Tigers don't change stripes easily. Remember you're dealing with the same guy who, I'm just guessing here, dumped you.

 

Make your needs #1.

 

Short.

Sweet.

To the point.

No chit chat.

No small talk.

 

Got it?

 

Good, now DO IT!

[KittenMoon]

Emailed back- took a middle ground. Cut out most of the chit chat but also only gave him the option to drop my stuff off at our friend's. Not at my place, whether I am there or not. Didn't say anything that asked or hinted for further contact.

 

Now I'm going out w/ friends.

[destination_unknown]

Hope you have a good time out with your friends!

[CaliGuy]

Emailed back- took a middle ground. Cut out most of the chit chat but also only gave him the option to drop my stuff off at our friend's. Not at my place, whether I am there or not. Didn't say anything that asked or hinted for further contact.

 

Now I'm going out w/ friends.

 

Good! Have a good time and forget about him for now. Focus on YOU and having fun

[KittenMoon]

Back from hanging with friends- got some news on the bf. Our friend that he talked to drove w/ me to the coffee shop. I told her that I heard they talked and I'm glad they talked but she should keep it mostly to herself as it was said in confidence.

 

She did insist on telling me a few things:

- apparently my ex didn't feel much about the break-up, then after I invited him over about two weeks ago it hit him and he's been very emotional since (this just confirmed what he emailed me) and apparently he's having a hard time handling it now; seems to have been triggered by seeing me (which doesn't surprise me- he's ver "out of sight, out of mind")

- he told her he needed to get some stuff out and felt she (our friend) was the only person he could talk to (totally uncharacteristic of him, not to mention the fact he always seemed to connect with her the least of our group)

- that he misses me and that he feels he's lost the best and worst thing in his life (this is kinda how I feel too)

 

Apparently, he asked for her advice and she laid it on thick- not just about our relationship either.

 

Anways, I basically told her I was "done". That I had been thinking a lot about the last 4-5 months BEFORE the break up and I didn't certain ways I was being treated. And even before that. That at this point anything that was going to be done was going to be done by him, and even then I don't know how much can be fixed, if anything.

 

Still, it's probably just a delayed reaction and he'll get over it soon. Like I said, I miss him more than anything, but I'm done.

[CaliGuy]

Back from hanging with friends- got some news on the bf. Our friend that he talked to drove w/ me to the coffee shop. I told her that I heard they talked and I'm glad they talked but she should keep it mostly to herself as it was said in confidence.

 

She did insist on telling me a few things:

- apparently my ex didn't feel much about the break-up, then after I invited him over about two weeks ago it hit him and he's been very emotional since (this just confirmed what he emailed me) and apparently he's having a hard time handling it now; seems to have been triggered by seeing me (which doesn't surprise me- he's ver "out of sight, out of mind")

- he told her he needed to get some stuff out and felt she (our friend) was the only person he could talk to (totally uncharacteristic of him, not to mention the fact he always seemed to connect with her the least of our group)

- that he misses me and that he feels he's lost the best and worst thing in his life (this is kinda how I feel too)

 

Apparently, he asked for her advice and she laid it on thick- not just about our relationship either.

 

Anways, I basically told her I was "done". That I had been thinking a lot about the last 4-5 months BEFORE the break up and I didn't certain ways I was being treated. And even before that. That at this point anything that was going to be done was going to be done by him, and even then I don't know how much can be fixed, if anything.

 

Still, it's probably just a delayed reaction and he'll get over it soon. Like I said, I miss him more than anything, but I'm done.

 

Advantage YOU.

 

Let him pine for you. Let him learn from his mistake. Let him WORK to get you back.

 

Keep the contact minimal, keep it short and sweet, hang out with friends, live it up!

[dr strangelove]

-You know what kittenmoon, you could be the new Smile. She had a thread or sometimes 3 or 4 going at once that were just like a mini soap opera. I actually find myself looking for your posts to see what happens next.

 

-Ill bet you that your stuff doesnt get dropped off anytime soon.

 

-Dont be sure about him not wanting a shag if its been a while he could be aching for it, and perhaps cuddles

 

-And now im going to talk frankly about something.. Counselling. If you feel that he had/has issues I dont see how they will be resolved him being left on his own. I had some issues with the ex and she insisted I get counselling. Great problem is they sat there explaining her actions to me, and she wasnt really into going with me.

 

I mean sometimes it helps to have a mediator, sounds sort of like this mutual friend is playing that role.

 

hmm thats all I can think of right now. We shall see how my hunches pay off.

Another future prediction I see is you guys hanging out in the next few weeks, I think you will try to keep contact with him low but sucumb to your desires.

[KittenMoon]

-You know what kittenmoon, you could be the new Smile. She had a thread or sometimes 3 or 4 going at once that were just like a mini soap opera. I actually find myself looking for your posts to see what happens next.

 

Writing and discussing is good therapy for me- like I said, I'm verbose.

 

 

-Ill bet you that your stuff doesnt get dropped off anytime soon.

 

You're probably right, but he tends to be lazy about this sorta minor errand so it wouldn't surprise me.

 

-Dont be sure about him not wanting a shag if its been a while he could be aching for it, and perhaps cuddles.

 

This really isn't him by any means. He takes care of himself just fine.

 

-And now im going to talk frankly about something.. Counselling. If you feel that he had/has issues I dont see how they will be resolved him being left on his own. I had some issues with the ex and she insisted I get counselling. Great problem is they sat there explaining her actions to me, and she wasnt really into going with me.

 

I mean sometimes it helps to have a mediator, sounds sort of like this mutual friend is playing that role.

 

My friend, who has been in mucho therapy and benefited greatly from it, suggested both couples and individual therapy for us (she's been in both). I'm glad she said it, because I am obviously not in the position to tell him he needs therapy and have it mean anything. As for couples therapy, I'm not interested right now. I'm angry and hurt and I miss him more than anything, but at the same time I'm energized and excited about the prospect of my life alone. It's scary at the same time it feels nice to have some unpredictability.

 

Another future prediction I see is you guys hanging out in the next few weeks, I think you will try to keep contact with him low but sucumb to your desires.

 

This is entirely possible- but right now I am SO adverse to backsliding- I've enjoyed only crying a little and actually being able to eat in the past week and a half or so. I need to regain full balance before I can deal with this anymore. I'm seeing more an more of the issues we had, not liking them, etc. I need to ponder this new clarity a bit more.