"I will never leave you..."

[Highndry]

"...as long as you never hurt me."

 

And then my transgressions began, too numerous to even calculate. A wrong look here, a missed touch there, and I was "hurting her" repeatedly, nevermind the fact I had absolutely no idea what I "had done" much less gotten myself into. My heart was an anvil, her mind the hammer.

[Trip2TheSky]

Care to elaborate?

[Highndry]

Care to elaborate?

 

Me: Unwittingly falling in love with an illusion.

 

She: An illusion (BPD or some such).

[Highndry]

In the interest of clarity, my point was that I could never achieve that "not hurting her," because she set me up for failure. Always the victim, she would pick out the slightest thing, such as I petted the dog when I got home before I hugged her, therefore I loved the dog more than her and "hurt" her. But I wasn't doing anything wrong, she was just really messed up in the head. She kept it well hidden for a while, but there were occasional signs. It got worse with time.

 

She was also gaslighting, something I never even knew existed until this relationship. She would specifically say "you said X" and I was incredulous, asking her "what are you talking about?" I had never uttered such thing, she was making it all up.

 

I ended up saying all the time "I can't win with you." It was bizarre. Then I started reading about BPD, and things became more clear. I even saw a cartoon with somebody standing in front of two doors, and I think one said "damned if I do" and the other "damned if I don't."

 

She is not well, and it's sad.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Highndry

[ExpatInItaly]

My ex, who is diagnosed BPD, is like this too.

 

He made grand promises - with heavy conditions attached, which I could never possibly fulfill. His version of "true love" was unrealistic and unattainable. This meant he could justify leaving whenever he wanted, and treat me poorly, because in his mind, I was always the bad guy who was out to get him.

 

It was the most exhausting, emotionally tumultuous relationship of my life and I still thank my inner fortitude for finally leaving it all behind a few years ago!

[Been]

It was the worst experience. Ever. And yes in the end it was so exhausting.

Trying to keep up with their ever changing mind was like a fulltime job.

[Highndry]

She had the thinnest skin I've ever encountered in any human being. Even the slightest hint of a disagreement or disapproval and her body language changed, and she started packing her things, emotionally blackmailing me with the threat of leaving. That was her standard go-to tactic. It hurt, especially because never before in a relationship had I been with a woman who even threatened to end it, much less weekly. To me, that was something I would never, ever do.

 

Her facial expressions and emotions could change on a dime. She was prone to hysterical tantrums, where she would literally throw herself on the ground and cry and lash out like a child. Over time, I realized that this was an act to try to manipulate my behavior, not only for me to feel sorry for her, but to do something she wanted me to do. This is a grown, middle-aged woman.

 

I will never forget one time when she was in the midst of a hysterical tantrum, crying her eyes out and wailing, and I calmly apologized to her and told her I could not do it anymore. I had never said this before, and immediately the sobbing stopped, she calmly got up with the most angry look in her eyes, like daggers, and said "ok, if that's what you want" then went to packing her things. It was as if a switch was turned. It actually scared me, as I then knew there was something seriously wrong with this person.

[Jchav123]

Pretty much just described my ex, and many other peoples on this board. This kind of relationship is among the hardest to move on from. Very high highs, very low lows.

 

I have found with my BPD experience that when they say "I will never leave you" they genuinely mean it....right then. Once they shift to the lows, they will mean what they say then as well unfortunately. You are right, there really is no winning except for not playing the game at all and distancing yourself from it.

[ExpatInItaly]

OP, I can't begin to tell you how much I identify with your experience. Your ex's behaviour sounds very consistent with BPD. I recognize so much of what you wrote in my own previous relationship: the tantrums, the extreme highs and lows, loving you and then hating you seemingly in a matter of seconds (often referred to as "splitting"), the constant break-ups.

 

You should do a board search for the user Downtown. He has some excellent insight and threads on the matter of BPD relationships. I took great comfort in reading them when I was in the midst of my own, knowing that others before me have experienced the same and could identify.

[BluesPower]

OP...

 

Bottom line, you can't fix crazy.

 

So don't even try.

[Been]

Yup like I said the absolute worse experience ever.

My ex was middle aged and if she didn't get her way she would throw a temper tantrum.

And the crying. Could cry rivers and st the drop of a dime stop.

When I had had enough I begun moving my things out when she wasn't there. I stopped and thought let me sit her down and explain face to face I'm leaving.

Big mistake. She starts getting dramatic so I get up to leave and she says something so I stop and turn to answer her and she starts yelling for me to get out-mind you I was leaving and had stopped to answer something she had said.

Next day she blows up my phone. States how even know she wants to be alone she "cares" for me and wants to stay friends.

I respond I gave you valid reasons why I left and I told her I tried to be civil about it but she didn't want that so I have no room in my life for someone like her. And I told her do not text me.

God she was the most exhausting person I ever dated. And in the end I wish I'd never met her. I mean almost everything she said or did was out of manipulation for her. And I've never seen an adult lie as much as she did.

[A_New_Earth]

The below post really struck a chord with me Highndry. It was such an 'incident' that led me to research BPD. Depending where your ex falls on the spectrum, there is a tendency for emotional disassociation. It fascinated me as I continued to research (still am). It lessened the pain of the breakup because as one poster said above "You can't fix crazy."

 

My ex had skin thinner than silk...or so I believed. Anything that she 'disagreed' with was likely to cause upset (even though she was fine to slander anything I may have liked or believed in [sometimes in a back-handed 'joke' kind of way]). A more 'passive', empathetic, caring person is a BPDs bread and butter. My ex fits the box of the 'covert narcissist'. And the more I reflected the more I realised that this 'thin skin' was actually a weapon. They crave drama. It's what actually fuels their days. So it's easy to stage being 'upset'. The truth (depending on where your ex lays on 'the scale') is that they do not 'feel' anything, not in the 'normal' sense.

 

I was sat there one day and I told my ex that my neighbour's cat had died. We fed that cat together (and made up silly stories about it's day) for the entire time we had been together. I broke the news gently and there was this...erm...delay in her response. Her lip quivered 'weirdly' and she looked away. When she finally turned back, she had all the markings of someone who was upset...but something was 'off'. There was a disconnect. It's so subtle, but as we grow we learn to detect these things. She wasn't responding (emotionally) in a sincere way. But like most things in these relationships/situations, you're in a position where you can't exactly say anything (without being made to look and feel like an a**hole). So you're in a constant state of confusion. You 'want' to be wrong, but you 'know' something is 'off' and can't do anything about it. They over compensate for this deep seated 'lack' inside them. To the outside world, my ex was a passionate, animal loving, intellectual, hard-working vegan. Even in the face of constant arguments, this projection would end up making me feel like "hey, it MUST be me causing all these problems because she's like Mary Poppins (practically perfect in every way)." So you end up beating yourself up even more (even though something inside you fights and screams saying: "It's not me FFS!"). My ex would send texts saying: "I care about you and we can do all the things you like to do..." But her actions never met her words. So powerful and convincing were these words, again, I felt like it must be me that was causing the problem. It's manipulation of the highest order (and I STILL have moments where I believe that 'version' of herself that she projected).

 

Then I found out that BPD with Covert/Invert Narcissist tendencies mimic emotions/body language to 'appear' normal. I would hazard a guess that the cold way your ex changed her upset to "ok, if that's what you want" was in fact her 'true' feelings. She didn't need the 'mask' of pretending to be upset anymore. It's scary as hell when it it happens.

 

Another thing my ex did was send send dozens of post breakup texts (as you do) trying to tell me she was heartbroken etc, etc. We talked for hours and it seemed like we were getting somewhere. Right as I was about to say "Okay, let's see if we can work something out..." my phone beeped again. It was a message to her cousin (Kerry). Don't forget she had been messaging me for hours saying how heartbroken she was etc. This messaged burned itself into my subconscious! It said: "Hey Kerry. I'm in the 'single club' again...hahahaha. Oh well!" She mistakenly sent it to me instead of her cousin. I'm so glad she did that because it gave me an insight into her batsh*t craziness. She back-tracked saying she loved me but that her cousin was having a hard time so she was trying to make her feel better. When I called bullsh*t on that story -- she said some of the nastiest things that can come out of a human's mouth...

 

I could go on and on and on about the things I've learned/realised. Little things like me and my ex used to text quite a lot (because she had a lot of 'work' going on -- Hmmmm). Then randomly, she went quiet one day. Short responses etc. So, I left her to it. She accused me of not caring and when I explained that I figured she needed some 'me' time or was just busy, she again said I didn't care. That resulted in me trying to prove I cared. Two weeks later, the same thing happened again. Not wanting to argue/cause upset (because normal/healthy people don't want that) I increased my "Hey, are you okay?" type messages. Guess what that resulted in? More drama of "yes, I'm just busy" that escalated into me being told I'm "Insecure". Now this Mary Poppins facade was so convincing that I allowed those suggestions into my 'heart'. I thought that I wasn't 'caring' and two weeks later I thought that I was 'insecure'. Until I began to research how common this 'gaslighting' tactic is, I was convinced it was all my fault. Then she tells me it's me that is causing the drama and I start to believe that, too. Six months with this girl (and 18 months of 'breadcrumbing') has bought me to my knees, my friend.

 

You've had a lucky escape Highndry. I wouldn't wish this behaviour on my worst enemy. My best friend (a female) has just been diagnosed with BPD and I feel sorry for whoever she ends up with. I love her to pieces, but it's a relationship killer. They can say 'I love you so much' as their eyes say 'I'm going to punch you any second now'. It leaves you in a constant state of confusion. I've been taking a course in how to 'spot' it quickly. If I'm on a date and I spot that sh*t in the future, I'll settle the bill and head for the nearest exit!

 

Peace.

 

She had the thinnest skin I've ever encountered in any human being. Even the slightest hint of a disagreement or disapproval and her body language changed, and she started packing her things, emotionally blackmailing me with the threat of leaving. That was her standard go-to tactic. It hurt, especially because never before in a relationship had I been with a woman who even threatened to end it, much less weekly. To me, that was something I would never, ever do.

 

Her facial expressions and emotions could change on a dime. She was prone to hysterical tantrums, where she would literally throw herself on the ground and cry and lash out like a child. Over time, I realized that this was an act to try to manipulate my behavior, not only for me to feel sorry for her, but to do something she wanted me to do. This is a grown, middle-aged woman.

 

I will never forget one time when she was in the midst of a hysterical tantrum, crying her eyes out and wailing, and I calmly apologized to her and told her I could not do it anymore. I had never said this before, and immediately the sobbing stopped, she calmly got up with the most angry look in her eyes, like daggers, and said "ok, if that's what you want" then went to packing her things. It was as if a switch was turned. It actually scared me, as I then knew there was something seriously wrong with this person.

Edited October 19, 2017 by A_New_Earth

[Been]

I think e biggest problem when you date someone like the above poster dated is that they make you question yourself.

When you first start dating them its great at first. They get you feeling great about yourself.

Then little by little they start finding fault with things you do and you try to fix the faults because you want it to go back to the way it was.

But this is by design. Nothing is wrong with you. But your so caught up in the moment you don't realize it.

And after they aren't in your life anymore and you reflect then you realize how many red flags you actually ignored while with that person. This is what trips up your recovery. Because you realize that the ENTIRE relationship was basically a ruse. And that's a hard pill to swallow.

[Steve51]

All married people say that and yet half divorce. You need to view life as it really is and that means people lie and people change their minds. It means those your trust are only trustworth until they are not. Expect the best but prepare for the worse. I have made a good 45 year marriage and professional work career like this.

[coledvids]

In the interest of clarity, my point was that I could never achieve that "not hurting her," because she set me up for failure. Always the victim, she would pick out the slightest thing, such as I petted the dog when I got home before I hugged her, therefore I loved the dog more than her and "hurt" her. But I wasn't doing anything wrong, she was just really messed up in the head. She kept it well hidden for a while, but there were occasional signs. It got worse with time.

 

She was also gaslighting, something I never even knew existed until this relationship. She would specifically say "you said X" and I was incredulous, asking her "what are you talking about?" I had never uttered such thing, she was making it all up.

 

I ended up saying all the time "I can't win with you." It was bizarre. Then I started reading about BPD, and things became more clear. I even saw a cartoon with somebody standing in front of two doors, and I think one said "damned if I do" and the other "damned if I don't."

 

She is not well, and it's sad.

 

I really feel for you, man. I know just how confusing and painful this can be, I've been through it with two separate women. You end up feeling insane. It's like there's nothing you can ever do to be enough.

[Been]

And that right there is what you have to realize -NOTHING you would have done would have been good enough or kept that person happy. NOTHING would have changed the outcome.

[Vanity1]

She had the thinnest skin I've ever encountered in any human being. Even the slightest hint of a disagreement or disapproval and her body language changed, and she started packing her things, emotionally blackmailing me with the threat of leaving. That was her standard go-to tactic. It hurt, especially because never before in a relationship had I been with a woman who even threatened to end it, much less weekly. To me, that was something I would never, ever do.

 

Her facial expressions and emotions could change on a dime. She was prone to hysterical tantrums, where she would literally throw herself on the ground and cry and lash out like a child. Over time, I realized that this was an act to try to manipulate my behavior, not only for me to feel sorry for her, but to do something she wanted me to do. This is a grown, middle-aged woman.

 

I will never forget one time when she was in the midst of a hysterical tantrum, crying her eyes out and wailing, and I calmly apologized to her and told her I could not do it anymore. I had never said this before, and immediately the sobbing stopped, she calmly got up with the most angry look in her eyes, like daggers, and said "ok, if that's what you want" then went to packing her things. It was as if a switch was turned. It actually scared me, as I then knew there was something seriously wrong with this person.

 

 

You sound like my ex.

 

There's two sides to every story.

[A_New_Earth]

You sound like my ex.

 

There's two sides to every story.

 

There are usually four sides. Your side, their side, everyone else's side... and the truth.

[Highndry]

You sound like my ex.

 

There's two sides to every story.

 

Because the behavior I describe sounds like you? I feel sorry for you if that's the case, as I do her.

 

As far as I'm concerned the biggest mistake I ever made in the relationship was not bailing out in the first few months when there were some signals, rather than sticking it out for a few years trying to be a good partner.

[Downtown]

Her facial expressions and emotions could change on a dime.... It was as if a switch was turned.... I realized that this was an act to try to manipulate my behavior.

HighNDry, I agree with ANewEarth that, if your exGF was putting on an act to deceive you (called "gaslighting"), you were seeing narcissistic or sociopathic behavior. In contrast, BPDers typically believe the outrageous allegations coming out of their mouths and their display of emotion usually is genuine. They are able to change on a dime -- i.e., flip a switch as you say -- because they are too emotionally immature and unstable to handle being consciously aware of two conflicting feelings at the same time.

 

This is not to say, however, that a person exhibiting strong BPD behavior cannot also exhibit strong NPD behavior. As ANewEarth observes, some BPDers also show strong symptoms of narcissism. A recent American survey of nearly 35,000 adults found that 39% of full-blown BPDers also exhibit full-blown narcissism -- and 14% also exhibit full-blown sociopathy. Indeed, 74% of BPDers exhibit one or two other PDs in addition to the BPD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

[littleblackheart]

Not to undermine your experience, but my sister has recently been diagnosed with BPD and she is NOTHING like this.

 

She is volatile and goes up and down the rollercoaster of emotions from one minute to the next, but she is fully aware of her actions and is making huge efforts to minimise the impact her BPD has on others; honestly, this BPD is more of a pain to her than it is to those around her.

 

Your ex sounds very insecure and may also have other issues, but I don't think blaming her actions on a mental illness is your answer.

[A_New_Earth]

Not to undermine your experience, but my sister has recently been diagnosed with BPD and she is NOTHING like this.

 

She is volatile and goes up and down the rollercoaster of emotions from one minute to the next, but she is fully aware of her actions and is making huge efforts to minimise the impact her BPD has on others; honestly, this BPD is more of a pain to her than it is to those around her.

 

Your ex sounds very insecure and may also have other issues, but I don't think blaming her actions on a mental illness is your answer.

 

As I said in a different post, Littleblackheart, there is a massive 'spectrum'. It's not dissimilar, in terms of diagnosis, to autism. An autistic child can be mildly autistic (barely noticable) to the extreme of being so noticable that people could spot him/her in a crowd. Your sister may have been diagnosed on the low-end of the scale.

 

Much of what Highndry has described does fit the bill of covert/invert narcissisim.

 

I appreciate what you say about your sister, but I would add that you haven't been in a romantic relationship with her. My best friend (female) has just been diagnosed and, as best friends go, she's awesome. She has, however, driven two men their knees in the past year alone. Relationships are a whole different ball game...

Edited October 21, 2017 by A_New_Earth

[littleblackheart]

As I said in a different post, Littleblackheart, there is a massive 'spectrum'. It's not dissimilar, in terms of diagnosis, to autism. An autistic child can be mildly autistic (barely noticable) to the extreme of being so noticable that people could spot him/her in a crowd. Your sister may have been diagnosed on the low-end of the scale.

 

Much of what Highndry has described does fit the bill of covert/invert narcissisim.

 

I appreciate what you say about your sister, but I would add that you haven't been in a romantic relationship with her. My best friend (female) has just been diagnosed and, as best friends go, she's awesome. She has, however, driven two men their knees in the past year alone. Relationships are a whole different ball game...

 

I'm well aware of the spectrum thing as both my son and I are on the autism spectrum (both Asperger's). I also appreciate that relationships are a different ballgame but I still think that the BPD is not the only explanation for why the poster's ex (or any exes) is behaving in a certain way. In a relationship, both are responsible for their actions, with or without a disability or a mental disorder.

Edited October 21, 2017 by littleblackheart

[elaine567]

As far as I'm concerned the biggest mistake I ever made in the relationship was not bailing out in the first few months when there were some signals, rather than sticking it out for a few years trying to be a good partner.

Yes, but hindsight is a wonderful thing..

 

[]

 

The main issue is why did you put up with this woman's behaviour for so long if it was not what you deemed "normal" or more importantly what you wanted in a life partner?

Why did you let yourself fall in love with such a woman?

And why did you hang on in there when things went pear shaped?

YOU don't need to diagnose her and put a label on her, you need to take a good look at yourself.

It is you that you need to analyse in detail, as it is YOU that you need to look out for going forward.

 

Whatever conclusions you draw about her are immaterial, she is gone from your life and you do not need to fix her, so there is no need to spend hours and hours, weeks and weeks, years and years like some will do, trying to do so.

She is who she is, and who she actually is, "mad" or not will not be influenced one iota by YOUR diagnosis...

It is a complete waste of your time. She doesn't really need a "diagnosis" or a label from you.

As the hurt and grieving ex, you are really in no place to make an objective or accurate diagnosis either, leave that to the professionals, if indeed she is "mad" at all. .

 

I know from experience that demonising and "diagnosing" the ex can be somewhat helpful initially as it can take the heat off, but it can easily become an obsession, a diversion from the distress, hurt, anger and general upset.

Ultimately you need to start looking inwards to make doubly sure it never happens again, else you will be prone to making the same mistakes, as you will no doubt be drawn to all that "drama" again.

People often say "Never again" to find themselves attracted to the very same types...

Edited October 25, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[A_New_Earth]

I'm well aware of the spectrum thing as both my son and I are on the autism spectrum (both Asperger's). I also appreciate that relationships are a different ballgame but I still think that the BPD is not the only explanation for why the poster's ex (or any exes) is behaving in a certain way. In a relationship, both are responsible for their actions, with or without a disability or a mental disorder.

 

I agree. The problem is...BPD with NPD tendencies do not take any responsibility for their actions (and most of their inappropriate actions are governed by their PD).

 

I've had a girlfriend that was flat out [awful]. It happens. But when you get a glimpse of the BPD relationship (again, depending on scale) you really do know the difference pretty quickly. It's soul destroying because no reason can be had. At least with someone who is insecure/mean...you can appeal to their human nature. Depending on the scale, good luck trying to 'appeal' to someone with BPD. You've more chance of juggling raindrops...

 

I dare say there are lots of reasons why the OPs Ex is behaving in this manner. But, in my opinion, BPD is definitely a factor. I didn't mean to sound patronising re: the autism spectrum by the way. I hope you and your son are both well.

Edited October 25, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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