Ex and I flash-backed, what now?

[Gene Clark]

Ok, I'll try to keep this brief:

 

We split up.

I'm 26 and she was my first girlfriend.

Not only was she my first long term relationship (9 months), she was also my first for a lot of things which of course makes the breakup all the more devastating.

 

We met conventionally online and decided to hook up...I've always been a bit of a shut in when it came to girls but with this one I felt completely at ease. She was very sincere and transparent right off the bat, and we connected instantly.

 

Things developed naturally between us at first, but soon enough the cracks began to show.

 

She was very hesitant to commit at first and it was only after three months that she agreed to officially start a relationship.

She is a bit older than me - 28, and she had been in two other relationships, one lasted for 6 years and the other was intense and short lived.

 

After two months of casual dating, I told her that if she was with me just for the hell of it, she should probably go find someone else because I was afraid of falling for her and being rejected like I have so many times before. I needed to remain strong to look after myself.

This sudden advert shook her up and she admitted that she though that made me come off as extremely insecure and she was probably right.

 

I was later able to rebuild her trust by loosening things up a bit by giving her the time and space she needed to decide. In spite of that, I never understood why she was so reticent about committing and that left me with a bad feeling which from then on caused me to mistrust her and second guess her intentions concerning our relationship. I often questioned whether she really believed we could build something that would last.

 

I would often try to seek out reassurance of her feelings for me and tried to push her against a wall a few times...she did not respond well to this and I guess it was one of the reasons why she ultimately decided to break it off.

 

To be frank, I gave her plenty of reasons to mistrust my intentions since I'm currently at a crucial stage in my life where I'm not quite sure whether I should move abroad to pursue better career opportunities.

 

This was apparently one of the big reasons why she had been hesitant in committing to me but she agreed to it when I told her I wouldn't leave her behind and that if I ever had to go anywhere it'd be temporary. This actually holds up, I'm not ready to go anywhere anytime soon.

 

Here are some other hurdles we encountered during the time we spent together:

 

1. I would often catch myself mulling about my looks so I often brought up how much I needed to put on weight and start working out...which she told me was off putting because it meant I was never happy and confident with the way I looked.

 

2. She has issues with anxiety and was on some pretty strong meds, we argued about that too because I thought she should've told me sooner. We later agreed that I should trust her and she would let me know of any drastic changes in her treatment/dosage.

 

3. I also wasn't 100% happy with how careless she was with herself at times, namely how she was a few pounds over her normal weight and would not keep a steady healthy diet.

I thought to myself that it was not my place to judge since I'm actually a slim guy who could use a few more pounds so we were pretty much on the same page for this one.

Either way, I still found her very attractive and thought that was a non-issue that could be worked on in the long run.

 

4. Beyond all that, we don't exactly mesh very well when it comes to political views (her compass alings more to the left and mine to the center-right) and we come from very different backgrounds. Another big source of frustration for her was that her friends and I didn't really jell very well.

 

5. Because she was my first I didn't handle certain situations as well as I could and on occasion, I may have been dismissive and a bit careless with my words and how I acted around her. For instance, I didn't guive her a proper call on her birthday, but that was only because I had been planning to surprise her later in the day. She hated me that day for not calling her and was so flustered that she didn't know how to react to the surprise.

Talk about the Devil being in the details...

 

...anyway

 

All these issues might make our relationship seem like a complete train wreck or a time bomb even.

But surprisingly enough, it wasn't all bad...we shared so many great and memorable moments because we had a really strong, personal connection. When we held eye contact I could feel it.

We communicated openly and gave each other space. We weren't a clingy couple and we tried our best to be reasonable with each other. We talked things over and looked for solutions.

 

For all I know we loved each other and that made up for all our many differences and faults and I keep asking myself how could it have vanished like none of those things mattered.

The day we split up, she told me it was mainly because of reason n.5 but I believe it was the sum of them all. Maybe it was too overwhelming and intense for her to cope with.

 

 

Fast forward to now: it's been a month after we said our bittersweet goodbyes (it felt more like a date, passionate kissing, tears and laughter). It was her call and I still feel devastated that she gave up on us.

 

Since then, after two weeks of NC, I reached out to her (by the means of a massive manuscript) to tell her that I respected her decision but asked if it was definitive because I still didn't find full closure from our split. I did this because I was more willing to hear the hard truth than to inevitably believe in a fickle chance of rebounding.

 

I told her I'd rather she'd be straight with me by telling me whether it was over for good so I could move on 100%. I also told her how much I still believed in us and how I didn't want us to be just love story gone bad and that I was still wanted to give us another shot.

 

In spite of my plea for closure, she told me that only time will tell what becomes of us and that she'll consider my request and will contact me when she makes up her mind. In the meantime, she said we should move on.

 

I'm so heart wrenched and I don't know what more to do other than try to keep my chin up and try my best to move on.

 

I wish I could, in a very Tommy's Wiseau fashion, go up to her and yell "you're tearing me apart!" because it would be the most absolute, plain truth.

 

I have a lot to hold on to and if I put things on the scale, the good in our relationship out weights the bad in so many ways and strangely enough, I can only remember the best of our times together.

She means so much to me and I just want her to be happy...yet, I still believe I can be the guy for her.

 

What in the actual F should I do?

 

I'm sorry I couldn't keep this brief. I'm a hot mess right now and I just had to get it off my chest...ANY advice will be much appreciated!

[mightycpa]

So much easier to go through this when you're young and in school... there ain't nothing you can do except to walk through the fire. The best way to do that is alone, as in NO CONTACT with her anymore. Just leave her alone, what else can you do?

 

Yes, it's hard. Yes, you'll feel like something is missing. Yes, yes, yes to all those things you're feeling. Feel bad for a while, then live your life. You had a life without her before and now you have it back.

 

There will be more than her... better than her. One might hurt you just as much, although most won't. Future breakups won't bother you nearly as much, so don't go cold. You're in the worst of it now, but it doesn't last forever. This experience will make you better, wiser, stronger. Be grateful you've finally gone through it.

 

It is a rite of passage for human beings. You're going to grow up a little now.

[Gene Clark]

So much easier to go through this when you're young and in school... there ain't nothing you can do except to walk through the fire. The best way to do that is alone, as in NO CONTACT with her anymore. Just leave her alone, what else can you do?

 

Yes, it's hard. Yes, you'll feel like something is missing. Yes, yes, yes to all those things you're feeling. Feel bad for a while, then live your life. You had a life without her before and now you have it back.

 

There will be more than her... better than her. One might hurt you just as much, although most won't. Future breakups won't bother you nearly as much, so don't go cold. You're in the worst of it now, but it doesn't last forever. This experience will make you better, wiser, stronger. Be grateful you've finally gone through it.

 

It is a rite of passage for human beings. You're going to grow up a little now.

 

 

Thank you for this...I know, I'm trying to be reasonable...these things are supposed to happen and are part of life. I wish that were easy to accept.

I wish I could see this as a new milestone or breakthrough.

 

But what hurts me the most is that for the first time in my life someone was interested in ME for real. A little more than month ago, that someone told me they loved me.

It's so hard to understand why a person can go from A to Z in such little time...it makes no sense.

 

Yes, I guess the fact that I'm going through this at 26 exacerbates the whole situation because I'm going though this emotional breakdown AND what is proving to be the toughest stage in my life. I'm struggling on all fronts:

 

my health (also losing my hair which is a major blow to my self-esteem), career, future prospects look muddled.

 

And to top it off she left me, knowing that I was already struggling.

It was also right after I opened up about some extremely personal details about my past (because she asked me to and really thought she needed to know)

All of this builds up into an overwhelming feeling of helplessness...I feel so vulnerable.

 

In a nutshell, it feels like every sad love song is written about me and everything reminds me of her. I was out strolling today when I walked past her sister, she doesn't notice me or flat-out ignores me...I look at the signpost of the street I'm on and it's the name of her hometown...then her favorite tunes play on the radio. It's almost on purpose.

But this is what she wants. I never imagined she would cause me so much grief...I feel like withdrawing into myself to never let this happen again.

 

In spite of all this I am dead-set on not breaking NC because I've already contacted her twice since we split, once with a letter and the second time to drop her the birthday gift I never had the chance to deliver. I included a note, it said the following:

 

 

Overdue as it may be, this carefully picked birthday/parting gift came in through the mail and has been eagerly waiting to reach your door.

It might assist you in rediscovering many of your favorite tunes so I suspect you will find it rather useful.

For the mention, I won’t hassle you any further…this is where I run out of surprises, expected or not.

For all I know, I gave you my best shot…and what more can anyone give than their best?

 

Be well

 

On a side note, I'm on a solid three-week NC streak so I guess that's got to count for something.

I've been repeatedly telling myself I need to respect her choice, I did everything I could and the blame isn't entirely on me. The ball is in her court now and whatever happens, happens.

 

Again, thank you for the kind and thoughtful words and I'm sorry if I sound overly dramatic but I just needed a place to vent.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Gene Clark

[Gene Clark]

Dear all,

 

Over the weekend I talked to a friend about what more I could be doing to help me get over my ex and move on to make it to the 'over it'/acceptance stage as quickly as possible.

He had the brilliant idea of asking me to make a list of all the things that bothered me yet were overlooked throughout our relationship.

 

It was helpful to think objectively about my ex, removing her from her from her pedestal and positive spotlight, setting my optimistic tendencies aside and really being honest with myself about the type of relationship we had.

 

Make no mistake, this thread is unabashedly and intentionally derogatory...even though there were plenty of good things about her, this is an attempt to for once, focus on the bad and the ugly.

I was surprised by how the list turned out much longer than expected.

 

Ex sin tally:

 

I. Mentioned her exes in our first convo.

 

II. Crazy on meds and would lose the plot when she forgot to take them.

 

III. Anxious to a tee: at times struggled to answer even the simplest questions such as 'where/ what time are we meeting?'

 

IV. Arbitrary availability: slept at ten on Friday nights, my options were the couch or home.

 

V. Did not put in the effort to try things that were outside her comfort zone nor did she share any of my interests/ hobbies.

 

VI. Her house was often filthy, even though she had a maid. That meant I'd often help her tidy up, even though it was never my job.

 

VII. Political views were aligned to the far left but she couldn't explain why.

 

VIII. Twisted my words and kept badgering me about my stance on topics I had already been clear about.

 

IX. Deceptive behavior when she was high and treated me like trash.

 

X. Plump and proud: kept a poor diet and quit her nutritionist.

 

XI. Told me not to think of her as 'the one' during one of our dates. It felt so out of context but now it all makes sense.

 

XII. Kept telling me off during our trip together and was often self-conscious about me when she was around her phony friends.

 

XIII. Phony friends I could not stand or put up with.

 

XIV. Had an infinite amount of time, love and care for her cats. I kept the scraps that were left over.

 

XV. Passive-aggressive behavior: constant mood swings and at times couldn't let her real feelings show, let alone be upfront about what was bothering her at any time, which often left me

guessing.

 

XVI. Insecure and kept asking whether I'd leave her or why I should continue with her.

 

XVII. Poor BJ skills.

 

XVIII. Gloated to her phony friends about her wild college flings while sharing the same couch as me.

 

XIX. A few weeks after the break up, she shared via text a dreadful LP with songs about hapless, miserable relationships, hopelessness and broken love. That stung me like a million daggers.

 

XX. Broke my heart and I never saw it coming.

 

 

 

I'm aware she probably has a similar list about me as I was by no means perfect, given it was my first long term relationship.

 

But hey, it turns out removing the blinds of love can be quite liberating.

 

:;^)

 

Feel free to use this thread to vent your frustration, it might help you come to terms with the fact that you CAN do so much better!

Edited April 10, 2017 by Gene Clark

[todreaminblue]

i have been roasting my ex a bit because he is trying to get back with me...its not really helping me just makes me feel bad for him.....he is trying really hard....and i can sense his loneliness.....i thought by roastign him i twoudl make me stronger...it doesnt.....makes me feel terrible...and yes he did some terrible terrible things almost unforgivable but i forgave him and what is done is done....

 

but

 

i know what i want in life where i want to be where i want to go and the type of man i would like to be with....i will always care for him....and my mum said to em you never know debs.....maybe he would change...which is true people change.....he isnt there yet though.....

 

im concentrating on what is beautiful about me......

what i find beautiful however simple and silly it seems...i am tired of concentrating on the ugliness....i will be flawed...lol...always..but i am a good person and im concentrating on that...and i have felt some massive shifts in thinking...a positivity that makes me feel like i glow..i feel surrounded by good things....good people ...and good in me.....i feel ...good....im on a high today i have discovered omega 3 crunchy oats......had them fro dinner.....adn feelin frisky.....lol...anyway..i hav emy bad days...but i am not going to blame my bad days on my past lovers or myself ....everyone has bad days...even good people.....and im driving this car...its my car called debs life...and im going bright and beautiful places doing things i love to do ......lol....sound like a motivational speaker dont i....yep motivating my self and self learning can really rock...as much as omega 3 oats...i think i am high on oats...probably a draught horse in a previous life.......deb

[Gene Clark]

i know what i want in life where i want to be where i want to go and the type of man i would like to be with....i will always care for him....and my mum said to em you never know debs.....maybe he would change...which is true people change.....he isnt there yet though.....

 

That sounds exactly like what I imagine my ex would say about me.

But the fact that I was willing to overlook every single one of the items on the list above makes a strong case for me, being that she was my first.

 

I was willing to see us grow together, really support each other and work through our issues. Obviously, she wasn't on the same page as me and she let selfishness get the best of her.

 

Alas, in your own words, what's done is done and people deal with things in different ways.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Gene Clark

[jorgeg3d]

Poor BJ skills is a deal breaker... jk. But I get that lol.

 

I wrote a list about my ex the first week she broke up with me. It feels good but I still will never understand someone who blames you and doesnt take any responsibility for their own actions.

 

My ex had every excuse in the book to distance herself from me. Like the OP's ex, she was very passive aggressive. Every time I'd confront her about it, she'd point the finger at me. Though I was trying to solve the problems that led to it, I was the culprit. And she did nothing on her end to make things better. Some people just don't know what a relationship is about, its sad, they may never find out either.

[todreaminblue]

That sounds exactly like what I imagine my ex would say about me.

But the fact that I was willing to overlook every single one of the items on the list above makes a strong case for me, being that she was my first.

 

I was willing to see us grow together, really support each other and work through our issues. Obviously, she wasn't on the same page as me and she let selfishness get the best of her.

 

Alas, in your own words, what's done is done and people deal with things in different ways.

 

 

my ex and i gene are on two different life plans......he wants sex before marriage and i dont.....he drinks alot lately and i dont ......never have sincei gave up beign fallen down drunk..... and he used that one to break up with me actually one of his reasons was because i couldnt come to the club and drink with him......

 

he wanted some one to party with....i happen to think being with my kids is far more important....than being some bar stool warmer.....church is a huge part of my life.....it would never be for him...i love him ...but i think you get to a point when you know...you will make each other really unhappy....we may be happy for a while...btu when it comes to th egrind of the everyday/....we are too different in lifestyles and goals in life.....i will always be the oen who fights harder and it needs to be equal...he gives up when eh gets what he wants...adn looks for something new/...where with me....i continue to fight for what is with me what i have not what i dont....i figth to keep a relartionship alive he hasnt the will that i have.........deb

Edited April 10, 2017 by todreaminblue

[Gene Clark]

my ex and i gene are on two different life plans......he wants sex before marriage and i dont.....he drinks alot lately and i dont ......never have sincei gave up beign fallen down drunk..... and he used that one to break up with me actually one of his reasons was because i couldnt come to the club and drink with him......

 

he wanted some one to party with....i happen to think being with my kids is far more important....than being some bar stool warmer.....church is a huge part of my life.....it would never be for him...i love him ...but i think you get to a point when you know...you will make each other really unhappy....we may be happy for a while...btu when it comes to th egrind of the everyday/....we are too different in lifestyles and goals in life.....i will always be the oen who fights harder and it needs to be equal...he gives up when eh gets what he wants...adn looks for something new/...where with me....i continue to fight for what is with me what i have not what i dont....i figth to keep a relartionship alive he hasnt the will that i have.........deb

 

I see where you're coming from...sometimes it's just life pulling people apart.

 

For all I know I gave her more love than she knew what to do with it. Maybe there is such a thing as 'too much love'...

 

I wasn't clingy but I was reasonable beyond reason. I think to myself that we can only take the love we think we deserve and she told me herself, in tears that she would have settled for much less.

 

I screwed up too and things got pretty bad toward the end but honest to god, I did my best and my conscience is clear.

This was that last thing I told her before going NC for good:

 

"I gave you my best shot... and what more can anyone give than their best?"

 

:~)

Edited April 10, 2017 by Gene Clark

[Chilli]

Hey Gene

Buddy , not much in your list points to a women that is really into it. l know you probly know that but from the outside looking in, sorta hate to say it but she did you a favor man, really.

You didn't dodge a bullet you dodged a canon.

 

Hold the course is my vote. even the fact your here and talking about it alone shows your a much better person than she deserves tbh. You way need someone more on your level of caring about things and each other .

Goodluck

[Altair0770]

1 - *****

 

2 - *****

 

3 - *****

 

 

On a serious note I'm gonna focus more on what's great about me than what's so terrible about her. I dodged a cannon ball as well. She let the best person to enter her life go.

 

In the end I know I'll happily get to live the fantasy we talked about, it just won't be with her, and that's the best news I could give myself. Meanwhile, she will always be stuck where she's at. Not because of her mental health issues, but because of her narcissism. She'll use people for attention, get bored, and be stuck. All because she knows she's pretty.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Altair0770

[Gene Clark]

Hey Gene

Buddy , not much in your list points to a women that is really into it. l know you probly know that but from the outside looking in, sorta hate to say it but she did you a favor man, really.

You didn't dodge a bullet you dodged a canon.

 

Hold the course is my vote. even the fact your here and talking about it alone shows your a much better person than she deserves tbh. You way need someone more on your level of caring about things and each other .

Goodluck

 

Thanks, that's good advice!

 

To be fair, I didn't force her into our relationship...sure, most of the initiative was coming from my end, I asked her to date me and she willingly agreed to it. I would tell myself that guys are usually expected to take the lead so it was only natural.

 

I did however, more than once, make it clear to her that we shouldn't be together if she didn't genuinely want what we had since no one is forced to be stuck in a relationship they don't want.

She would then tell me she really wanted it to work but her words did not mirror her actions as she put minimal effort into changing the things she knew were getting in the way.

 

My final resolution is that yes, she didn't care for me enough to really go the extra mile but well, she probably isn't even capable of caring for someone in the same capacity that I cared for her.

 

She's going to settle for much less, I'm certain.

[mightycpa]

Poor BJ skills on a plump girl? Never a good sign! A plump girl is supposed to love everything that goes into her mouth!

 

I'm impressed that you're able to compile a list of things you didn't like. I'm doubly impressed that it was so long and so specific. It's a great anchor for you to recognize reality, even if you don't feel it. As life moves forward, no doubt you'll find women who are alarmingly better at what you didn't like about this one, but do nothing for you emotionally.

 

That's when you'll figure out that the whole thing has very little to do with tangilbe reasons pro or con. It's a lot more about brain chemistry and the times in your life when you're vulnerable to feelings of love, or when you're immune to them. You'll meet women who love you and who you believe that you SHOULD love, but don't. You'll meet women who you know you have no business loving, but do, and they might or might not love you. None of those will end well. At some point, practicality always takes precedence.

 

With any luck, the right combination of her practical attributes and your personal readiness will combine, and the next thing you know, you're head over heels for the right one. which means nothing more than you're compatible for the long haul. Finding short term compatibility is easy - it's the long term compatibilty that's difficult to find.

 

Just grieve the loss of this one is all you can do. Don't force it, and don't rush through it. Grieving well is the only thing that readies your heart for the next one.

[Goodguy05]

Thank you for this...I know, I'm trying to be reasonable...these things are supposed to happen and are part of life. I wish that were easy to accept.

I wish I could see this as a new milestone or breakthrough.

 

But what hurts me the most is that for the first time in my life someone was interested in ME for real. A little more than month ago, that someone told me they loved me.

It's so hard to understand why a person can go from A to Z in such little time...it makes no sense.

 

Yes, I guess the fact that I'm going through this at 26 exacerbates the whole situation because I'm going though this emotional breakdown AND what is proving to be the toughest stage in my life. I'm struggling on all fronts:

 

my health (also losing my hair which is a major blow to my self-esteem), career, future prospects look muddled.

 

And to top it off she left me, knowing that I was already struggling.

It was also right after I opened up about some extremely personal details about my past (because she asked me to and really thought she needed to know)

All of this builds up into an overwhelming feeling of helplessness...I feel so vulnerable.

 

In a nutshell, it feels like every sad love song is written about me and everything reminds me of her. I was out strolling today when I walked past her sister, she doesn't notice me or flat-out ignores me...I look at the signpost of the street I'm on and it's the name of her hometown...then her favorite tunes play on the radio. It's almost on purpose.

But this is what she wants. I never imagined she would cause me so much grief...I feel like withdrawing into myself to never let this happen again.

 

In spite of all this I am dead-set on not breaking NC because I've already contacted her twice since we split, once with a letter and the second time to drop her the birthday gift I never had the chance to deliver. I included a note, it said the following:

 

 

Overdue as it may be, this carefully picked birthday/parting gift came in through the mail and has been eagerly waiting to reach your door.

It might assist you in rediscovering many of your favorite tunes so I suspect you will find it rather useful.

For the mention, I won’t hassle you any further…this is where I run out of surprises, expected or not.

For all I know, I gave you my best shot…and what more can anyone give than their best?

 

Be well

 

On a side note, I'm on a solid three-week NC streak so I guess that's got to count for something.

I've been repeatedly telling myself I need to respect her choice, I did everything I could and the blame isn't entirely on me. The ball is in her court now and whatever happens, happens.

 

Again, thank you for the kind and thoughtful words and I'm sorry if I sound overly dramatic but I just needed a place to vent.

 

 

Lol dude reminds me of my 1st love and heart break God wat an earful experience it was but here's the spoiler that pain doesn't get easier u just know better wat to do that's it. So in the past if u made an idiot of ureself chasing u wont later down the track but that pain never gets easier. I'm in my 5th loss and let me tell u each one has felt like it's had its own twist to it its almost like pushing a new boundary. This latest I have to work wth and she's seeing someone work colleague and I have to watch them interact how's that for pain lol. Altho I did wat u did about getting angry wth em haha thats because of the inexperience definatly. Anyway know me n u both will get thru it its akin to a storm passing through u and let me just say ur dealing wth it the right way by mourning the loss absolutly a Necessatiy in healing

[fromheart]

Well you've given her complete power by putting the ball in her court. Never let yourself become someones option, who is she to decide whether she wants you in her life or not.

 

If someone needs to make a decision as to be in your life or not, your firm answer should always be no. As for needing to know whether the split is real or not, if she didn't call you/contact you within a few minutes of dumping you, profusely apologizing and begging for a second chance, consider it over.

Otherwise the best you'll get is her taking you back and dumping you again.

 

Dating a woman on med is something I wouldn't advise. Such a person in a relationship is like a sprinter trying to compete with a broken leg. Next time, tell her to give you a call when she's feeling better.

 

There's some things you need to address in yourself, get to self work right now. No delay. You'll feel better instantly.

[EmilyJane]

Are we really seriously acting like it's totally acceptable to call a few pounds plump and act like it's cool for boyfriends to have a say in or the right to comment on their partners bodies or nutrition choices?? Or that a woman who's consented to letting you be the only man that gets to have sex with her is ok to criticise for bj techniques like it's a dealbreaker.

 

Like it's 2017. We've acknowledged women as autonomous equal individuals not walking blow up dolls and prize winning livestock a while now.

 

 

Real flaws/dealbreakers are dishonesty, cheating, flirting with your dad at Christmas dinner.

 

To me it betrays an extremely entitled person who is shallow person preoccupied with his own physical flaws and physical appearances. That sort of insecurity thst then extends to partners is really super destructive on the trust and acceptance relationships require.

 

Now I'm guessing you're better than that, but you're coming off as so immature and entitled and critical it's repellant.

 

Don't let that be who you are as a result of this heart break.

 

It will not attract many stable loving smart fun women your way either

 

 

I don't think that ripping to shreds the character, physique and sexual techniques of someone you loved deeply is the way to heal. I bet on some level it will just make you feel worse for being so awful and negative and also a bit like an idiot for having feelings for this person.

 

This is just not the adult healthy way to get over someone.

It will keep you stuck and also make you bitter and repress the stuff you need to be experiencing.

 

It's ok to be still grieving the loss and feel hurt and pain, you need to, that is how you heal clean and move on. You feel all the grief for as much and as long as you need to until you just do not feel much for her except faint familiarity and hoping she's not dead.

 

Do it right. Be your best self. Be the grown up and the good man where many can't.

Edited April 15, 2017 by EmilyJane

[Downtown]

Constant mood swings.

Gene, the two most common causes of mood changes are a hormone change and drug abuse. Given that your 28 y.o. exGF apparently is neither pregnant nor a drug abuser, it seems unlikely these two conditions are a source of her instability. I therefore note that the two remaining common causes of strong mood changes are BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and BP (Bipolar Disorder).

 

Significantly, the behaviors you describe do not sound like red flags for typical bipolar symptoms. Instead, the described behaviors -- i.e., fear of abandonment, frequent mood swings, verbal abuse, and rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing you -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD. I'm not saying that your exGF exhibits full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

I mention this because a person exhibiting "constant mood swings" is emotionally unstable. Significantly, of the ten personality disorders, BPD is the only one having "unstable" as a defining symptom. Indeed, most of the 9 BPD symptoms (listed in DSM-5) describe behavior that is unstable or arises from an inability to control emotions.

 

My ex also has a severe case of PTSD.... her dad passed away when she was very young. She also suffered abuse within her family.[Your 4/11 post.]

If your exGF is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong and persistent traits), that does not rule out her also suffering from PTSD. On the contrary, 47% of female BPDers have co-occurring PTSD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP. With PTSD, a person re-experiences the trauma through intrusive distressing recollections of the event, flashbacks, and nightmares. In addition, she will experience emotional numbness and avoidance of places, people, and activities that are reminders of the trauma. Typically, PTSD arises from a trauma occurring in late childhood, adolescence, or adulthood -- i.e., after the person has had time to develop emotional skills and a stable sense of self identity.

 

With strong BPD, however, symptoms will be far more serious because the trauma (abuse or parental abandonment) occurs in early childhood, typically before age five. When a trauma occurs that early in life, the child's emotional development can be frozen at the level of a 3 or 4 year old. The result is that the child grows into adulthood without the ability to control her own emotions and without having a strong, stable sense of who she really is.

 

She seemed to have no control over the way she felt about certain things.

As noted above, she lacks the ability to control her emotions if she is a BPDer. Indeed, this trait is such a key feature of BPD behavior that a large share of the psychiatric community have been lobbying for several decades to rename this disorder as "Emotional Regulation Disorder."

 

Insecure and kept asking whether I'd leave her or why I should continue with her.

Her preoccupation with the thought that you would soon be walking away is to be expected if she is BPDer. A BPDer's greatest fear is abandonment. She lives in fear that, even if you do love her at this very moment, you will leave as soon as you discover how empty she is on the inside. A BPDer's other great fear is engulfment, a terrible feeling of being suffocated and controlled after prolonged intimacy. This is why a BPDer's WORST fights usually occur immediately after the BEST of times -- i.e, after a great weekend or an intimate evening, or right in the middle of a wonderful vacation.

 

I triggered her.

If she is a BPDer, it was impossible for you to do otherwise. The problem is unavoidable due to the position of a BPDer's two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. You are always in a lose/lose situation because, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you will start triggering the fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

 

Hence, as you move close to a BPDer to comfort her and assure her of your love, you will start triggering her engulfment fear, making her feel like she's being suffocated and controlled by you. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you will find that you've started triggering her abandonment fear. Sadly, there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering the two fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years searching for that Goldilocks position, which simply does not exist.

 

Crazy on meds and would lose the plot when she forgot to take them.

Medication cannot make a dent in BPD. Doctors nonetheless prescribe meds for BPDers because they typically have -- in addition to the BPD -- two or three "clinical" disorders such as depression, anxiety (GAD), PTSD, bipolar, or ADHD. The meds are intended to address those co-occurring disorders, not the BPD itself.

 

Anxious to a tee: at times struggled to answer even the simplest questions such as 'where/what time are we meeting?'

If your exGF is a BPDer, there is an 81% chance she also suffers from an anxiety disorder (e.g., GAD, PTSD, panic disorder, and phobia) and an 80% chance for having a mood disorder (e.g., bipolar or depression). See Table 3 at cite given above.

 

Twisted my words and kept badgering me about my stance on topics I had already been clear about.

The human condition is that, whenever we experience intense feelings, our perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations becomes very distorted. This distortion is so obvious that, by the time we are in high school, nearly all of us know that we cannot trust our own judgment when we are experiencing intense feelings. This is why, when we are very angry, we try hard to keep our mouths shut and our fingers off the keys. And this is why, when we are very infatuated, we try hard to wait two years before buying the ring.

 

Well, BPDers are like that too -- only much more so. Because BPDers are unable to regulate their emotions, they experience far more intense feelings -- and do so far more frequently. The result is that a BPDer frequently gets very distorted perceptions of your motivations and intentions. And because her feelings are so very intense, she is absolutely convinced that her distorted perception MUST be true.

 

She probably isn't even capable of caring for someone in the same capacity that I cared for her.

If she is a BPDer, she likely is capable of loving you very intensely -- albeit in the immature way that a young child is able to love you. Although that immature form of love can work great in a parent/child relationship, it falls far short of what is needed to sustain a husband/wife relationship.

 

It's reassuring to find that there's a pattern with people in this condition.[4/11 post.]

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as "constant mood swings," verbal abuse, and icy withdrawal.

 

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Although the symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most of those red flags sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Gene.

[SpecialJ]

Gene, reading what you said, I think if we put the focus entirely on you and off of her for a minute, it sounds like there are steps you can take to move forward (with or without her, and assume without) that will eventually make you feel better. I'm sure you loved her and had a strong connection, and that part will just take time to heal. But, related to what some other posters said here, I'm troubled by how much you're concerned with your looks, projecting what you think is best onto her (ie how she should take care of herself if she's not blatantly doing something unhealthy), crossing some healthy boundaries that are still in that vein of best-for-her-according-to-you (why were you cleaning up after her, unless she's asked you to help?), and feeling uncertain of your life and career prospects. None of that makes you a bad person and I'm not making that list to criticize, so apologies if this sounds harsh because it's not my intent. I'm just making it to point out that it sounds like you're in a time of uncertainty in your own life and have a bunch of insecurity and self esteem issues to consider (that existed before the relationship) while also figuring out what you want and what is best for you. If you take the no contact time to do some self-exploration work in these areas, figure out what you want in life outside of a relationship and what you can do to work on making your body image healthier, that will help you feel better faster than continuing to focus on her will. Over time, it will also put you in a better headspace to then process the relationship while probably helping you not have the same control/boundary issues in future relationships, whether with new women or your ex.

 

I'm sorry you're hurting and struggling, though. It is really hard to lose someone you're close with, whether the first time or you've had some practice with it. I'm on day 39 of no contact, even though we were still talking regularly before I stepped away-- and I still miss him but it has been the best decision for me to make for myself.

 

Good luck, it will start to get better with some more distance.

 

-J

[Gene Clark]

Are we really seriously acting like it's totally acceptable to call a few pounds plump and act like it's cool for boyfriends to have a say in or the right to comment on their partners bodies or nutrition choices?? Or that a woman who's consented to letting you be the only man that gets to have sex with her is ok to criticise for bj techniques like it's a dealbreaker.

 

Like it's 2017. We've acknowledged women as autonomous equal individuals not walking blow up dolls and prize winning livestock a while now.

 

Real flaws/dealbreakers are dishonesty, cheating, flirting with your dad at Christmas dinner.

 

 

Emily, I understand what you're saying and yes, if I'm coming off as an immature douche, it's because I am indeed purposely venting my frustration here rather than contacting her and losing it. Some of the things I mentioned don't actually hold up or reflect the way I felt towards her during (or after) our relationship. In reality I am still trying to fool myself into believing our paths should never have crossed.

 

 

To me it betrays an extremely entitled person who is shallow person preoccupied with his own physical flaws and physical appearances. That sort of insecurity thst then extends to partners is really super destructive on the trust and acceptance relationships require.

 

Yes, I am insecure...less so than I used to but still not where I need to be. So was she. I thought us being together was a great chance to tackle our insecurities and it wasn't just about looks, my insecurity stems from years of isolation and self doubt. But I feel the thing I thought would bring us together is what ultimately divided us. Entitled? Maybe a little and that's sad, but mostly I was just too involved.

 

Now I'm guessing you're better than that, but you're coming off as so immature and entitled and critical it's repellant.

 

Don't let that be who you are as a result of this heart break.

 

It will not attract many stable loving smart fun women your way either

 

In spite of my shortcomings, I am the better person in this relationship, I'm sure of it. Just the way I've been handling everything so far, considering all the other things in my life I've been dealing with simultaneously, I've been taking this like a champ. It's now only a matter of whether I can hold my ground and stick to NC because the urge to talk to her right now has been relentless.

 

At the moment, women are the farthest thing from my mind, regardless of whether they are 'stable, loving and fun' because I know I'll likely be grieving for quite some time. For better or worse, withdrawing into myself is what I do best.

 

I don't think that ripping to shreds the character, physique and sexual techniques of someone you loved deeply is the way to heal. I bet on some level it will just make you feel worse for being so awful and negative and also a bit like an idiot for having feelings for this person.

 

This is just not the adult healthy way to get over someone.

It will keep you stuck and also make you bitter and repress the stuff you need to be experiencing.

 

At this point I'll try anything to numb the pain. As long as it's not directly hurting her. I do realize I might be hurting myself more than her by doing this...but more pain, less pain...I can hardly feel the difference.

It just hurts and it seems endless.

 

And please don't tell me about 'the adult healthy way' to do something. We adults have it all backwards last time I checked.

 

It's ok to be still grieving the loss and feel hurt and pain, you need to, that is how you heal clean and move on. You feel all the grief for as much and as long as you need to until you just do not feel much for her except faint familiarity and hoping she's not dead.

 

Do it right. Be your best self. Be the grown up and the good man where many can't.

 

Yes to all of this and thank you for replying.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Gene Clark

[Gene Clark]

Gene, the two most common causes of mood changes are a hormone change and drug abuse. Given that your 28 y.o. exGF apparently is neither pregnant nor a drug abuser, it seems unlikely these two conditions are a source of her instability. I therefore note that the two remaining common causes of strong mood changes are BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and BP (Bipolar Disorder).

 

Significantly, the behaviors you describe do not sound like red flags for typical bipolar symptoms. Instead, the described behaviors -- i.e., fear of abandonment, frequent mood swings, verbal abuse, and rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing you -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD. I'm not saying that your exGF exhibits full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

I mention this because a person exhibiting "constant mood swings" is emotionally unstable. Significantly, of the ten personality disorders, BPD is the only one having "unstable" as a defining symptom. Indeed, most of the 9 BPD symptoms (listed in DSM-5) describe behavior that is unstable or arises from an inability to control emotions.

 

If your exGF is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong and persistent traits), that does not rule out her also suffering from PTSD. On the contrary, 47% of female BPDers have co-occurring PTSD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP. With PTSD, a person re-experiences the trauma through intrusive distressing recollections of the event, flashbacks, and nightmares. In addition, she will experience emotional numbness and avoidance of places, people, and activities that are reminders of the trauma. Typically, PTSD arises from a trauma occurring in late childhood, adolescence, or adulthood -- i.e., after the person has had time to develop emotional skills and a stable sense of self identity.

 

With strong BPD, however, symptoms will be far more serious because the trauma (abuse or parental abandonment) occurs in early childhood, typically before age five. When a trauma occurs that early in life, the child's emotional development can be frozen at the level of a 3 or 4 year old. The result is that the child grows into adulthood without the ability to control her own emotions and without having a strong, stable sense of who she really is.

 

As noted above, she lacks the ability to control her emotions if she is a BPDer. Indeed, this trait is such a key feature of BPD behavior that a large share of the psychiatric community have been lobbying for several decades to rename this disorder as "Emotional Regulation Disorder."

 

Her preoccupation with the thought that you would soon be walking away is to be expected if she is BPDer. A BPDer's greatest fear is abandonment. She lives in fear that, even if you do love her at this very moment, you will leave as soon as you discover how empty she is on the inside. A BPDer's other great fear is engulfment, a terrible feeling of being suffocated and controlled after prolonged intimacy. This is why a BPDer's WORST fights usually occur immediately after the BEST of times -- i.e, after a great weekend or an intimate evening, or right in the middle of a wonderful vacation.

 

If she is a BPDer, it was impossible for you to do otherwise. The problem is unavoidable due to the position of a BPDer's two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. You are always in a lose/lose situation because, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you will start triggering the fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

 

Hence, as you move close to a BPDer to comfort her and assure her of your love, you will start triggering her engulfment fear, making her feel like she's being suffocated and controlled by you. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you will find that you've started triggering her abandonment fear. Sadly, there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering the two fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years searching for that Goldilocks position, which simply does not exist.

 

Medication cannot make a dent in BPD. Doctors nonetheless prescribe meds for BPDers because they typically have -- in addition to the BPD -- two or three "clinical" disorders such as depression, anxiety (GAD), PTSD, bipolar, or ADHD. The meds are intended to address those co-occurring disorders, not the BPD itself.

 

If your exGF is a BPDer, there is an 81% chance she also suffers from an anxiety disorder (e.g., GAD, PTSD, panic disorder, and phobia) and an 80% chance for having a mood disorder (e.g., bipolar or depression). See Table 3 at cite given above.

 

The human condition is that, whenever we experience intense feelings, our perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations becomes very distorted. This distortion is so obvious that, by the time we are in high school, nearly all of us know that we cannot trust our own judgment when we are experiencing intense feelings. This is why, when we are very angry, we try hard to keep our mouths shut and our fingers off the keys. And this is why, when we are very infatuated, we try hard to wait two years before buying the ring.

 

Well, BPDers are like that too -- only much more so. Because BPDers are unable to regulate their emotions, they experience far more intense feelings -- and do so far more frequently. The result is that a BPDer frequently gets very distorted perceptions of your motivations and intentions. And because her feelings are so very intense, she is absolutely convinced that her distorted perception MUST be true.

 

If she is a BPDer, she likely is capable of loving you very intensely -- albeit in the immature way that a young child is able to love you. Although that immature form of love can work great in a parent/child relationship, it falls far short of what is needed to sustain a husband/wife relationship.

 

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as "constant mood swings," verbal abuse, and icy withdrawal.

 

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Although the symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most of those red flags sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Gene.

 

This was actually very insightful and it kind of helps me to avoid being too hard on myself, because I'll usually subconsciously tell myself it's always somehow all my fault and that it could have been helped if it weren't for the terrible, broken person I am. I'm sure I'm partly to blame, but by no stretch of the imagination was she infallible.

 

In hindsight, most those symptoms seem shockingly relevant but then again, if she did indeed suffer from BPD, who can say what the intensity of her case is when compared to other people in the same condition.

 

It may have all been due to a bad case of PMS. Of course, that is what I would much rather believe.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Gene Clark

[Gene Clark]

As life moves forward, no doubt you'll find women who are alarmingly better at what you didn't like about this one, but do nothing for you emotionally.

 

That's when you'll figure out that the whole thing has very little to do with tangilbe reasons pro or con. It's a lot more about brain chemistry and the times in your life when you're vulnerable to feelings of love, or when you're immune to them. You'll meet women who love you and who you believe that you SHOULD love, but don't. You'll meet women who you know you have no business loving, but do, and they might or might not love you. None of those will end well. At some point, practicality always takes precedence.

 

Your words here really spoke to me, you've pretty much summed up the poignancy of loving the wrong one.

 

Honestly, the fact that I STILL love her, as much as I'm in denial, is the toughest thing to accept.

 

I've been telling myself I must be insane to have let a girl as troublesome as her have such power over me. It really boggles my mind and puts into question my ability to think reasonably.

 

I can only hope I'll be better able to discern whether or not a person is worth loving, but even then...do we ever have a choice when it comes to love when it's such a mousetrap?

Edited April 19, 2017 by Gene Clark

[Gene Clark]

I'm very tempted to break NC again, even though it's been two months of cutting all forms of communication with her, I haven't been able to let go.

I still feel scattered, I don't know how or why what happened had to happen.

Since the BU she has shown zero initiative, no breadcrumbs, no empathy, nothing.

 

I just can't stop thinking that since she was my first everything, she will always have an important place in my heart, I explicitly told her so and yet I can't help thinking that to her I'm just some guy she dated for 8 months for an ego boost. It is incredibly painful to think of us that way cause I gave her my whole f heart on a plate.

 

I'm also so confused by how we left things, on the day we broke up there were so many feelings...I could feel she was hesitant, but the way we opened up about everything and laughed and kissed and did most everything we always did one last time is what I believe is keeping me from letting go.

 

I'm not sure if it's because she's a kind-hearted girl and was trying her best not to hurt me but if that's the case, it just made everything worse because the last image I have of her in my mind is that of a person I STILL really love in spite of all her mishaps.

 

A few weeks before the BU we had both confessed our love to each other and now I'm not sure if it was real...I just have to know, I need to know that for once in my life I was loved by someone regardless of whether she still feels the same.

 

If she wasn't being honest, why didn't she tell me so when I asked her if she wanted to continue in our relationship.

I gave her that chance, I was still undecided about her then because she had a hard time expressing her feelings, but she reassured me and that's when I gave her my all with no reservations...what was the point in that?

 

Honestly, the only thing keeping me from tossing all my progress out the window is that I feel like I need to be in a completely different place, a place of power and confidence before I even consider reaching out to her. I just wish she could tell me whether she had to end things due to the intensity of our toxic relationship or if it was because she completely fell out of love for me... that is, if there ever was love to begin with.

 

Someone please tell me relationships aren't always this hard...I don't know if I can take this again...I feel too much.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Gene Clark

[Gene Clark]

I've decided to break the radio silence and contact her after two months of NC.

 

I've had a very insightful talk with a work colleague, she's very experienced when it comes to relationships and gave me a female perspective on my situation.

 

She said she would also have been very hurt if her BF hadn't called her on her birthday and that of all the reasons, that was probably the thing that drove her decision to break up with me. She said people don't just split up for being different.

 

I told her about how I sent her a letter and all, she said that won't cut it, that it's not enough and said that if I'm really serious about her, I should step up my game and contact her in a more direct way, that I should follow my heart and reach out and really fight for this girl if I want her because few people are willing to do that these days. According to her, a letter isn't enough and that I shouldn't be hoping to hear back from her even though she responded. (My ex said she needed time to heal and would contact me when she feels ready) She said that's her just being polite and that she doesn't mean to contact me at all because she maybe expects that if I really think she's worthwhile, I'll be the one chasing her.

 

I've given her time and space and the way I see it, if I'm going to contact her eventually, there's no better time than now because if I wait longer it may be too late.

 

 

My ex's status on Whatsapp has been "I much prefer the good old call" for more than a month and maybe I'm reading too much into this...but I have to try EVERYTHING I can because after two months I've realized this girl means everything to me.

There are so many red flags when it comes to dating her but the fact of the matter is that I have not, in my lifetime ever met a girl as genuine, sincere and lovely as her. I still love her to pieces.

 

Of course, I will proceed with caution and depending on how she responds to my contact, I won't pursue her if I feel there are no feelings left. I know better than to beat a dead horse.

 

I'm going to allow myself to get shot on the foot and give this another go, it's my first relationship anyway and I'm not afraid of taking another no as I've already had that and I'm still standing. I feel like I've got nothing to lose and as the saying goes, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

 

I'll contact her the right way, I'll keep myself calm and collected and won't pour out my heart to her. I'll keep things civil, ask her what she's been up to and if she would be open to meeting up. I'll tell her I have something to give her (and I do, I'll be handing her a print copy of Gone Girl, conveniently the German edition as she is quite proficient in it)

 

I just want to know how she is doing, it's been two months and we are on good terms. I want to see how she reacts to that, feel her tone.

 

I'm planning on doing that in the coming week.

 

Now, I know I'm ignoring some of the best advice I've gotten from this site, all those props to encourage me to move on and stick to NC, they were very helpful and I appreciate it. But I feel like I need to see to believe, see for myself (more than likely, to later return here and validate all that advice.)

 

 

Any suggestions? Is there anything I shouldn't mention under no circumstance? Should I send her flowers? (joking)

Edited April 29, 2017 by Gene Clark

[Blanco]

I would suggest not mentioning a single thing, but I understand that sometimes it's not enough for someone to tell us the stove is hot; we must see for ourselves.

[Altair0770]

Not a good idea at all. Worst case scenario literally is you get fooled into being just a friend.