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"Ghosting" where is the line?


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Hi all. I have heard wonderful things about some of the advice given on these forums. Dating and the rules seem to change constantly. I am not in the dating pond anymore so it's sometimes hard to gauge what is "normal behavior" and what is still considered trashy dating behavior.

Without getting into a whole big story, I have a friend who is having a bit of a rough go of things. I know what I would do and never do to my partner, but we have been together for quite a while and our rules may be different to what is "Ok" now. So I'm just going to ask a few questions and try to get some general feedback without making all of you read a big story. Feel free to ask questions or give opinions...

 

Scenario: Your partner disappears on you after 7 months together for what appears to be no reason. (There was no fight. No "big" problems and things were going very well according to both people) Months later your partner finally starts talking. Their primary communication is to lunge at you with a pretty serious accusation of a behavior that is not indicative of something you would ever do. (or have ever done in the past) Would you be upset by this?

 

No apology offered when the accusation is proven wrong; would you still be pissed off about the accusation and how they shamed you for something you never did?

 

Is it ever ok (acceptable behavior) to just disappear in an established relationship without a word and ignore any attempt (by your partner) to communicate?

 

If you were the one given the silent treatment by your partner, would you call out your partner/friend on their disloyalty if the silence continued despite your efforts? Is disappearing in silence like this disrespectful and intentionally hurtful in your opinion?

 

Should your behavior throughout the r'ship count towards the way your partner treats you? (How and why they leave you) If the truth is different than what they believed; should that change the way they communicate with you?

 

There is a story behind this, but like most stories things can get misunderstood. So I'm just concentrating on the behavior behind the story for now. If the lack of a backstory clouds things, I'll condense and post it. I just didn't want the story to muddle things.

Thanks everyone for your help!

Addison <3

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Sounds like he has really crap communication skills and probably too much insecurity. i would seriously think about just letting him go rather than put up with false accusations and insecurity for some years to come.

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Sorry Pre... I should have mentioned that I wrote these questions in an androgynous fashion so things could not be summed up as "him or her" being singled out... Just behavior being singled out. Neither of these people is me. =) (Thank god) I'm more interested in what "the rules are" These days. One of these people is a friend. If I'm going to be a good friend I need to know what is what... A lot has changed since I dated. (I.e. it was NEVER ok to just ignore someone you dated. Women behaved like women and men behaved like men... We sucked it up and did the right thing whether it was uncomfortable or not) I'm a bit in awe of how people treat each other in dating today. If I'm going to offer the right help to this friend, I need a wider opinion than my own.

For the sake of argument, assume there is no gender when answering.

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todreaminblue

if you have been in a relationship fro a while dating i mean i dont think its right at all to ghost.....everyone has a right to be shown respect and to have closure fi a relationship has ended...especially in the case of exclusive serious dating......i dont think there should be cruelty in closure but honesty is needed if the relationshoip is no longer viable.....as far as rules go in dating i think rules are unique to the people involved and should be clear from the onset of the relationship....im a firm believer in leaving people better than when you first met them ...enriching guys lives...enhancing their lives when they know me...to leave them worse off is my golden rule broken...to me that rule is golden doesnt matter if i date ten years from now..it will remain my number one rule...

 

to date....when i have ended relationships......it has needed to happen....and i have made it clear why ...gently....i have not left confusion in my wake...with ignorance or ghosting when i have dated....its not the way i would like to be treated......so i dont do it....im not in awe of how people seem to date these days..i pretty much think it sucks..men are too scared to step up and be men...women have to be aggressive in pursuing........and i feel old school should become the new black....theres a defined lack of respect on both sides....and people give up way to easy on each other...less tolerant...should be more tolerant.........deb..

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Thanks for taking the time to respond Dreamin.

So ghosting would upset you? (I'm taking by your response that was a yes! Lol)

Offended by an accusation that has no foundation?

Still offended by the accusation and how they shamed you for something you never did?

Would you call out your partner/friend on their disloyalty if the silence continued despite your efforts?

Is disappearing in silence like this disrespectful and intentionally hurtful in your opinion? It sounds like you agree it is hurtful and intentional.

etc...

"its not the way i would like to be treated" Well said and exactly the point as to why I am using these questions to establish a standard social convention.

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todreaminblue
Thanks for taking the time to respond Dreamin.

So ghosting would upset you? (I'm taking by your response that was a yes! Lol)

Offended by an accusation that has no foundation?

Still offended by the accusation and how they shamed you for something you never did?

Would you call out your partner/friend on their disloyalty if the silence continued despite your efforts?

Is disappearing in silence like this disrespectful and intentionally hurtful in your opinion? It sounds like you agree it is hurtful and intentional.

etc...

"its not the way i would like to be treated" Well said and exactly the point as to why I am using these questions to establish a standard social convention.

 

 

I have had to deal with ignorance a lot.....when i was younger not so much these days....people who know me know its the way to hurt me.....my son does it ...takes away the grand kids....wont allow me to speak to them wont talk to me either...my mum and my sis have promised me they wont do it to me anymore....they have done it a bit.....

 

i tried to fix the silence between my mum and i once one mothers day i baked a heart shaped cake...my signature carrot cake with cream cheese frosting and i walked it to her door.....its actually pretty difficult to walk a cake a long distance and it was hot.....my heart was beating really fast.....i guess my heart knew.....

 

i knocked on the door and she said she didnt want to see me.....she wasnt ready to "fix" things and that i should leave.....so i said take the cake mum.....ill go...happy mothers day........and she took the cake and shut the door....that walk home took me a very long time.....i didnt want my kids to see how i upset i was.....they didtn want me to go around to my mums...they knew ....it woudnt be good..i have a way fo just trying to act like nothing ever happened....if i know they wont apologise....

 

if there's ignorance i try and "fix" the situation ....talk it out.......or ignore the root problem and build a shaky start again.....

 

 

i respect when people dont want to talk to me....and normally when i ignore someone its because they have hurt me over an extended period of time with no remorse..... and i cant take anymore hurt......i wouldnt publicly humiliate anyone....and i dont like burning bridges...someone the other day asked me are you talking to so and so .....and i said no .. we arent really friends anymore.....i care about him though and lets just leave it at that because ....he in fact ignores em quite often ...but he has his issues and i feel for him still...i just cant take the ignorance....so i let him go like he wants to be let go....i really wish the person who talks about him ....would ...not talk about him with me....i have nothing left to say.....if she does again...ill probably tell her i would prefer not to speak of him i just wish him well....i dont want to feel bad about him or say anything bad about him.he probably goes through his days with no though to fme ...so i want that too........so i can move on from a dead friendship....

 

 

.....so its not really me ignoring people...its them choosing to not have me in their life.....and i let them choose that....ill disappear......i guess until they notice im not around anymore.....if they care.....

 

its not intentional ignorance it is necessary ignorance and i feel there's a distinction there.....im not a saint....and no contact is for healing......

 

i feel many situations do differ .......and what you need to do isnt always the most comfortable option i dont believe anyone should be publicly humiliated.....its isnt right...and i know what it feels like

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Your situation with your mum sounds heartbreaking. I truly feel for you and how long that walk home must have been. Some people seem to like getting hammered in the face. They don't like it when there is calm and tranquility in their relationships. It's unsettling to them. Could your mom have "tried"? Sure. She made a choice. It had nothing to do with how you felt or what you needed. Until she puts the right value on your relationship she will be toxic to you. You'll feel pain you don't deserve above what you feel now.

This is why I didn't tell "the story" or even distinguish male from female and who did what in this case. I was just looking for the "bones" of what is acceptable and what isn't. Take away the ability to jump on wagons based on preference and the data becomes clearer. =)

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Scenario: Your partner disappears on you after 7 months together for what appears to be no reason. (There was no fight. No "big" problems and things were going very well according to both people) Months later your partner finally starts talking. Their primary communication is to lunge at you with a pretty serious accusation of a behavior that is not indicative of something you would ever do. (or have ever done in the past) Would you be upset by this?

 

Absolute deal breaker. This person would find themselves on the other side of some pretty strong NC from me.

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Absolute deal breaker. This person would find themselves on the other side of some pretty strong NC from me.

 

Forgive my ignorance Basil... NC? Lol

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Should I just post the story instead of asking these black and white questions? I am pretty new at this ladies and gents.

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Thank you Midwest. Lol I suspected that was what it meant but didn't want to jump to conclusions. I think the way I worded that scenario is confusing.

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Here is the condensed version of what happened. Everything I have listed is fact based. I've tried to keep the he-said-she-said stuff out of it.

 

Two people are seeing each other monogamously for around 6 months. In a twist, they were friends and coworkers 20 years ago and found each other on POF again. One of them is friends with all of the other persons family (including the parents) It started as FWB, with a strong emphasis on the friendship part, but it quickly escalated into much more, but with the understanding that things needed to stay "casual" and relaxed for the moment until trust developed. Both agreed. It was very important that monogamy was maintained at all times due to health issues. (one of them is heavily immunocompromised. Even a simple STD could be catastrophic to their health)

 

Let's call them Kelly and Taylor just for the sake of keeping gender tilting out of things for the moment.

 

Everything seemed to be going really well for the first 4 months or so. They both seemed to show they cared for each other. The general tone of the r'ship was very positive. There were issues on both sides as in any r'ship. There was a more serious issue that kept coming up... Kelly was constantly talking about "the ex" and thrusting said issues onto Taylor. Taylor listened and helped with many of these issues, but it soon became a burden whenever they were together. On many occasions Taylor had tried to distract Kelly with acts of kindness, but it did not stop it from happening almost every time they were together. I remember Taylor made Kelly a nice dinner. The entire time they were eating all Kelly talked about was the ex. *sigh*

 

One night things got heated when Taylor tried to help Kelly deal with the ex issues in the best interest of the relationship. Kelly got very upset. Taylor tried to make Kelly understand that the only wedge in their r'ship was the one that Kelly kept putting between them. They talked the following day and it seemed that Kelly understood Taylor's intent. Things went mostly back to normal after.

 

About a week after this incident, out of nowhere Kelly goes silent and refuses to communicate. After several messages from Taylor, Kelly finally reopens communication. Once they are talking again, Kelly's reasoning for just disappearing is that Taylor was " mean" when trying to help out. Taylor of course is a bit baffled because this issue was already resolved and compromises were made.

 

Anyway, they talk, mud is slung by both sides, an understanding is found. Kelly acknowledges that Taylor was just being honest and trying to help, not being intentionally nasty. They resume dating. Everything seems fine. On the 2nd date after they mended ties, Kelly lets it slip that less than a week after disappearing on Taylor he/she was screwing someone else. Taylor is not happy about this disloyalty, but chooses not to irritate things and let it go without a word. The r'ship continues without further incident. Taylor makes Kelly agree that going silent is neither respectful or solves problems between them.

 

Three weeks later the silent treatment is thrust upon Taylor again. This time for 5 months. No incident. No fight. In fact all their communication is very friendly until the silent treatment begins again.

 

Taylor is very hurt that the friendship is gone without any opportunity to fix or even discuss things. They had promised each other to be fair and always put the friendship first. Taylor feels betrayed on many levels (to put it modestly)

 

After a few weeks of Kelly disappearing, Taylor sent a text to try and reopen communication and was met with the response, "Who is this?" Kelly had deleted Taylor completely from his/her phone! Not a crime, but not exactly a nice gesture that shows someone you care either. Taylor was clearly not impressed. Did Taylor express this to Kelly. Yes. Did Kelly disrespect the friendship? I say yes he/she did.

 

After almost 6 months I intervened and sent an email to Kelly after (periodic) messages from Taylor went unanswered. Taylor was visibly hurt that despite being loyal as a friend and as a lover to be treated in this way considering their history. Kelly finally responded to Taylor 4 days later, but the message was not one that would be considered friendly. Kelly attacked Taylor again for being mean from way back and decided to add insult to injury by accusing Taylor of doing something pretty horrible. Kelly shamed Taylor repeatedly and insisted the story was true.

 

Taylor outright denied this accusation and asked for some proof. Kelly declined to look into it or even acknowledge that he/she could be wrong. Taylor did look into it and quickly discovered the entire accusation was fictional. In fact the basis of the accusation took place years before they even reunited.

 

**Backstory**- There was a true "substory" but it neither had anything to do with Taylor and even more surprising... It had nothing to do with Kelly. It was a story that Kelly's sister in law had mentioned to Kelly at Xmas dinner over 2 months after Kelly disappeared on Taylor. (The friend in the story was someone Kelly knew as well)

 

The sis-in-law told Kelly the friend had forwarded an email to her years ago and asked if she was involved in this "thing". Of course the answer was no and they laughed about it. Somehow Kelly turned this story into it involving Taylor and then turned it into an accusation despite the story being 2 years old (long before they reconnected) and the actual sharing of the story with Kelly took place 2 months after Kelly took off on Taylor.

 

When Taylor confronted Kelly with the initial evidence, Kelly claimed it was all true and continued to shame Taylor for it.

 

Later when Taylor told Kelly that the sis-in-law had given the real version of things, (remember I said Taylor knew all of Kelly's family?) Kelly back-peddled and tried to suggest he/she just didn't make it up, but that it should be dismissed without discussion or taking responsibility. There was no apology of any substance.

 

When Taylor found out the whole truth and confronted Kelly, he/she went back into silent mode... But not before sending one last email... (granted it was by accident. It was supposed to go to me) that basically said he/she was being kind, caring and the real friend while Taylor was just a horrible person who showed no remorse for the things done to Kelly. I did try to explain that friends don't attack friends without proof. Lovers just don't ditch each other. Once you two hash it out and put it to bed, that is where it stays until someone re-offends again. If Taylor was mad about all this it was because Kelly had aggravated the situation instead of helping it. I told Kelly that an apology was owed to Taylor. Silence... And it has been that way ever since.

 

I feel bad for Taylor. Genuinely nice person and unbelievably loyal human being. We have remained best of friends for over 20 years despite living on opposite sites of the world. Taylor is responsible for saving my marriage and being a rock every single time I had a crazy moment or was doing the girlie panic thing. (We all do it ladies, let's stop denying we do! Lol) Taylor even jumped on a plane from Canada to Aus just to be there for me when I woke from a pretty serious surgery as a surprise. My sister lives an hour away and didn't even show up! =(

 

Should Taylor be mad... Feel betrayed? I know Taylor suffers from Hyper Empathy Syndrome (diagnosed) and feels things at a different level than most of us do. Hurt is still hurt. When we don't deserve it the sting hurts that much more. I don't know if I have the answers based on my limited understanding of how people date these days. I'm hoping some of you do.

 

Thank you all for reading... I really did try to make this as brief as possible, but also as factual as I could.

Ya'll are awesome for helping others! Kudos! :D

Edited by LilAddison
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Taylor needs to quit obsessing over Kelly. During the first break Kelly found someone else to screw, and Taylor should have put the tombstone over the grave of this relationship then, instead Taylor allowed the evil ghost to escape the grave and Kelly has since been inflicting as much damage as possible. It is time for Taylor to go NC and find a life sans ghosts and demons...:eek:

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Er... ok.

Not sure if slandering someone for their loyalty to friendship is constructive, but I guess in the disposable society that is the norm?

I told you I don't get how people behave. My friends don't treat me like garbage... That's why they're still my friends. Lol

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Your 'friend' no longer has the FWB going. Especially since the friendship part has seemed to disappate- so hopefully this friend no longer offers the benefits portion as well.

 

Seems the party with the 'ex' issues would benefit from counseling to get over the ex. This'friendship' is never gonna go anywhere when one person is still 'stuck' on a past relationship emotionally - and obviously that is happening.

 

I believe no contact is appropriate since an old flame is standing in the way...so no reason to keep opening the door when there's no value in it.

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AnotherNewBeginning

How long did they disappear for and why? If it's ages hours, it's completely fine. If its overnight or longer with no explanation why then it's unacceptable.

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Your 'friend' no longer has the FWB going. Especially since the friendship part has seemed to disappate- so hopefully this friend no longer offers the benefits portion as well.

 

Seems the party with the 'ex' issues would benefit from counseling to get over the ex. This'friendship' is never gonna go anywhere when one person is still 'stuck' on a past relationship emotionally - and obviously that is happening.

 

I believe no contact is appropriate since an old flame is standing in the way...so no reason to keep opening the door when there's no value in it.

 

Well said S2B

No, there is no benefits or friendship. Pretty hard to do when Taylor for the most part is talking to a wall. That's the funny part... It didn't disappate... There was nothing gradual about it. Everything was one extreme to another.

 

Agree 110% about the ex issue.The ex was a nightmare and was pretty nasty on just about every level you could imagine. A Taylor quote, "How am i supposed to keep this going when I'm dating Kelly and trying to manage our own problems plus all those from the ex as well?? I catch the attitude and bad moods for things I didn't even do." I did tell Taylor (during the r'ship) to stand up to Kelly and let him/her know injecting this into their r'ship was unfair and would wreck it. Taylor did it... It didn't go well. Lol

 

Taylor has gone NC now for 2 weeks. Patience is exhausted. Effort is futile. Taylor knows there is no recovery from this one I think.

 

After doing a bit of reading on here I keep hearing a lot men and women complaining (rightfully so in many cases) that their partner had no passion or just didn't care about them or the r'ship. Kelly needed someone to show him/her what a real r'ship was all about... What the rewards were for loyalty, empathy and friendship. It baffles me that the response chosen was this one. I'm so glad I'm not out in the dating pool. I'd be idiot fodder constantly! Lol

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How long did they disappear for and why? If it's ages hours, it's completely fine. If its overnight or longer with no explanation why then it's unacceptable.

 

The first time Kelly took off was about 3 weeks. The 2nd time was about 6 months ago. Neither time was there even a 'this is why I am going" message. Not a text. Not an email. Just *POOF* Taylor has never done anything like this or gave Kelly the silent treatment. (other than a few hours while work was intense or in meetings)

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Well said S2B

No, there is no benefits or friendship. Pretty hard to do when Taylor for the most part is talking to a wall. That's the funny part... It didn't dissipate... There was nothing gradual about it. Everything was one extreme to another.

 

To give you an idea of how extreme I mean. As an example... The last few Texts Taylor got from Kelly before disappearing the 2nd time was joking about oral sex and Kelly being overdue for more. As said by kelly, "he/she was having trouble getting enough of a good thing."

I'm not big on cursing, but even I have to ask... WTF? Lol

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I've been reading a lot about ghosting on here. I was wondering if there is a grace period (so-to-speak) where it's ok to just take off without a word on someone? After 4 dates? 2? Never? It seems there are people who believe that it's ok within a certain time frame.

Part 2 of my question... And this may sound odd. Lol How is a person supposed to respond (or not) after someone ghosts them after 2 dates? 2 months monogamous? A 6 month r'ship? (or greater)

Part 3... If someone ghosts you and tries to come back, should they be held accountable (and perhaps even scolded) for their behavior? Are the rules different for male vs female offenders?

 

I've had a few GF's say this has happened to them, but once I dug down it appeared they were equal if not worse offenders of this. Lol

 

If you could sum up the behavior of "Ghosters" in 5 words or less, what would you say?

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Ghosting is basically falling off the face of the earth, disappearing. That's a summation of ghosting. So anyone who behaves this way has ghosted someone. I don't see any problem with ghosting after 2 dates, but it really depends on the situation. I went on 2 dates with a guy, and we never spoke again. So I guess you could say we ghosted each other. It was just obvious we didn't click. I didn't think it merited any discussion of why I didn't want to move forward and go on another date. And he apparently felt the same way.

 

If you have dates for 6 months, ghosting seems pretty cruel. So I would say it depends on the situation. I wouldn't say there is a blanket rule here that always applies.

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salparadise

There aren't really any rules, just the way some people behave and the way others feel when it happens to them. A lot of people don't feel that one or two dates constitutes any sort of obligation to contact and announce that they aren't interested in another date. If a guy doesn't call again, well, you can pretty well assume. If a woman doesn't take or return the call, same deal. Nobody should be so invested by a second date that it feel terribly disrespected. You have to have a thick skin because stuff like this is going to happen. There's no set number of dates at which the expectation changes, but it does change. If people have started progressing toward more than get-to-know-you early dates, a person of integrity will be communicative. But attitudes, degrees of integrity, and personal responsibility are highly variable. There is no official rule book.

 

Part two: No response required. However, feel free to call them out on it if it makes you feel better. It's not likely that the ghoster will lose any sleep over it.

 

Part three: Scolded? Held accountable? I'd say not responding would be appropriate, but it depends. If it's a high value prospect you might decide to subject yourself to repeated rounds of the same. No difference between men and women.

 

I don't know why, but dating seems to bring out the worst in some people and they feel justified in treating their partners or prospective partners worse than they'd treat a varmint. I believe we should treat people the way we'd want to be treated, even when breaking things off.

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For me there is never an excuse for ghosting unless there is abuse involved. It's just common courtesy and manners. Things that seem to hold little value these days.

 

I got ghosted by my ex. I had been through 2 divorces before that, had a few other relationships end for various reasons and I can tell you. Nothing, NOTHING hurt as much or for as long as being ghosted did. It is the height of disrespect both to the ghosted person themselves, and for any good times that were shared in the relationship. It sours the entire time spent together. It's basically telling someone they aren't worth even the most basic human respect. It's the lowest of the low and is an incredibly cowardly thing to do.

 

People are willing to put tons of time into rubbish like social media, yet won't give someone they shared intimacy the 2 minutes of time and courtesy to say "Sorry but I don't think this is working out. I don't want to see you anymore."

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