Another broken engagement.

[sooshi]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm back on here after a long hiatus... I was hoping to not feel compelled to return here, but it is the only place I feel like I can to safely express my feelings. It's good to see some familar names-- Zahara, TaraMaiden, Arieswoman, Leigh_87, CarrieT... and hello to everyone else who is here now.

 

During the Christmas holidays of 2013, my long-distance fiance ended our relationship. We kept in touch for several more months, and ended up not speaking for about nine months. We ended up reconciling last fall. He wanted to try again--we'd get married, and I agreed to having an open relationship, as he wants to be able to love freely.

 

A little over a week ago, he decided that he no longer wanted to have partners and did not want a core partner, as he feels he changes too much and doesn't expect anyone to keep in touch with him. I also have not reacted as gracefully as I would like to when he brings up another woman. When we recently discussed more about what it means to be in an open relationship, he spoke of spending the night with other women, and possibly even living with them as well. I had no idea these were even possibilities until then.

 

So, I guess we just don't fit. I get that. It's still hard for me, as I'd been planning to move next year to be with him, start a business, and a family (as he had wanted). In my mind, it feels like certain dreams are broken. I guess I just need to make some new ones.

 

If you are reading this and have any words of encouragement, or just to "wake me up," your thoughts are welcome.

 

Thanks for reading.

Edited May 25, 2016 by sooshi

[ExpatInItaly]

Think about the pain you're actually saving yourself:

 

You move to be with him, and yet he dates other women. You want to start a family, yet it won't be the family you're envisioning. It won't be you and him and a couple children - it will involve other women, too. Would you be comfortable with these women possibly being around your kids? With you being home alone with them, while he is spending the night in another woman's bed? I say this not to make you feel worse, but to feel encouraged that you are saving yourself from a lot of misery.

 

It sounds very much as though you agreed to be in an open relationship because you didn't want to lose him. Is that what you really wanted? I would say it's not, given the terminology you used and the fact that you didn't react well to the mention of other women. You don't need to just play along and react "gracefully" when you're not comfortable with the arrangement.

 

I'm sure you're in pain now, and I'm sorry you're hurting. But imagine the pain you would've suffered if you'd just rolled with it. The dream you had of your future with him sadly wasn't based on reality.

 

Open relationships are a choice both parties need to be comfortable with. They're not something you should ever agree to if it's not what you want.

[Zahara]

I'm sorry to hear that you've been hurt again by him, Sooshi. In a way this is a blessing. You can finally close this door and start moving forward. This chapter has ended.

 

It seems like you agreed to this arrangement only because it was your only hope to have him. Don't ever compromise your values and beliefs.

 

Learn from this very valuable lesson and stay strong.

[sooshi]

Thanks for your reply, Zahara. I really did think I was open to the arrangement. It intellectually makes sense to me, to love more than one and to not be prevented from doing so. It's been emotionally harder to get on board with than I had anticipated. It would be easier if I were his core partner, which I thought was the case from the beginning, but he doesn't want any hierarchy.

 

I will try to work on being strong, and to heal and to build new dreams. I hope you are doing well.

[Arieswoman]

sooshi,

I am sorry you are going through this

 

I know it seems bad now, but you've saved yourself yet more heartache.

 

I'm sure you've learned a lot from this, so you can move forward as a strong confident women.

 

Good luck x

[NoLeafClover]

One day you will find a one lady man that will not go herky jerky with other women and only embrace you..when that day will come...you will beat your head and say WTF was I even thinking.

 

I suggest you buy a helmet ahead of time.

[Toodaloo]

Blimey what a mess already and he is being terribly selfish.

 

Take your time. Look after yourself. Heal.

 

Then keep it simple with the next one.

 

Logic and emotions are not the same thing...

[sooshi]

ExpatInItaly - Thank you so much for being so rational. I'm sorry I didn't acknowledge your response earlier--I didn't see it until now. I think you're right, that I at least partially agreed to having an open relationship because I didn't want to lose him. I also didn't want to feel pressured to be everything, which I have felt in the past, and didn't want to restrict him to loving others. Thank you for waking me up to reality to with your words.

 

Arieswoman - It's good to hear from you. You're right, even though it hurts now, it is saving me way more heartache down the road.

 

NoLeafClover - Thanks for the chuckle. I am really not sure I will be in a relationship again. If it happens, that's great, but I am more focused on my life's work. I guess we'll see what happens.

 

Toodaloo - Thank you. I will take my time, look after myself, and work on healing. You're right, logic and emotions aren't the same thing. Thank you for reminding me of that.

[sooshi]

It was hard to do, but I deleted my e-mail account. I hope it will help with my healing. Right now, it makes me feel rather alone and isolated and wonder if/when he'll contact me. But I kept checking my e-mail to see if he e-mailed me, and it was enough to know that it was becoming unhealthy.

 

Here's to better days.

[Els]

Hi sooshi,

 

Sorry you are hurting. But I think it's really for the best. I mean, like ExpatInItaly says, you move to him, you have his children... and all the while he is having sex with other women? I can't imagine any woman being okay with that, frankly.

 

Do you have any desire to have sex with other men? IMO open Rs only work when both people truly have that desire, otherwise it's really just one partner in an open R and the other one stuck trying to rationalize themselves into being okay with it. In other words, a disaster waiting to happen.

 

Someday I am sure you will meet a man who only wants you. Big hugs, stay strong!

[sooshi]

I don't really have a strong desire to be with other men. Some open relationships have a monogamous partner, and I know it's hard work. I was open to dating other men, but my former fiance was always going to be my core partner if that happened. I didn't know until recently that he didn't want the same for me.

 

He wanted to have children together, but to live with others (a commune), and possibly date within. He also wanted to spend the night with other women, something I hadn't considered a possibility until he told me recently. He said it was also possible that he would have children with other women eventually, which I had never entertained the thought of, either.

 

We were planning to live in a trailer together, so we could travel around the US and meet people. He had mentioned wanting to living in a commune last year, but didn't bring it up again, so I thought he just wanted to live in an RV trailer. When I asked if I would be alone while he was with other women, he asked me why would I need to be alone? Why does it just have to be us living together? So, I guess he wants to live in a communal environment. I'm okay with living with a certain number of people, but not a huge group, as I need peace and quiet and a lot of time to myself (very introverted). But I also didn't realize, like I said, that he was open to dating any women who lived with us.

 

*sigh* You're right, Elswyth. I guess this was just a disaster waiting to happen.

[CarrieT]

I have been involved with the poly community for over thirty years now and - guess what! - the "intellectual" concepts that you were compatible with, ultimately back-fire 100% of the time.

 

In your core, you are a monogamous person and you want to be cared for and loved by one. He wants to f*ck around.

 

I am helping a lesbian couple go through wanting to try poly because one member of that couple wants other relationships and the "core partner" is learning to deal with it. I will be very surprised if they survive.

 

The only open relationship I have ever seen work (because my attempt certainly didn't) are two couples who "married" and live as a foursome. They have been doing so for almost 25 years.

 

But guys who try to play the "I need an open relationship because I have to love others" is just playing games and you are ultimately better off without someone like that. I am completely agreeing with ExPat's assessment, Sooshi - you were just too afraid to be alone and were willing to be subjected to a social experiment that has few legs and completely screws with people in the long run.

 

Count your blessings and look forward. There is someone out there for you. 100% for you and for no one else.

[sooshi]

I appreciate your response, CarrieT. I would be interested in hearing more about your open relationship attempt, if you would be willing to share. Did you both really want it, or did one of you want it and the other thought it intellectually made sense?

 

It is great that it worked out for the two couples who "married" and live together. Do they have relationships outside of each other as well? (if you are willing to say)

 

I really did want it to work, as I love him deeply. I didn't foresee that other people he would be with would be of the same level as me (priority, time, etc.). He doesn't want hierarchy and wants to love freely. A relationship anarchist, I suppose. He said he can't just pour himself into one person anymore.

 

I appreciate your words of encouragement, and also directness that helped bring some rationality and reality back into me.

[CarrieT]

I appreciate your response, CarrieT. I would be interested in hearing more about your open relationship attempt, if you would be willing to share. Did you both really want it, or did one of you want it and the other thought it intellectually made sense?

I have posted about it often but - in short - I married way too young (at 20) and both my husband and I realized we had a lot of experimenting to do so we decided to have an open marriage. We were honest about it with each other; sometimes sharing the escapades and someones going our own way when someone struck our fancy.

 

We both wanted it and it worked for almost five years... Until I got sick at work and came home with the flu, only to find my husband in a people puddle of other men. Seems the open, honest relationship I thought I had didn't extend to the fact that he was having sex with other men -- without protection during the height of the AIDS crises -- without telling me. Total deal-breaker and something I couldn't handle.

 

It is great that it worked out for the two couples who "married" and live together. Do they have relationships outside of each other as well? (if you are willing to say)

They do, yes. I have been "invited" to participate and have routinely declined. A lot of poly people don't necessarily want other relationships as much as they just want other sex partners. Big difference for me, but not for them.

 

I didn't foresee that other people he would be with would be of the same level as me (priority, time, etc.). He doesn't want hierarchy and wants to love freely. A relationship anarchist, I suppose. He said he can't just pour himself into one person anymore.

That, right there, is your biggest misconception: That there would be hierarchies to one's emotional involvement and that you might be able to control it. You actually DID want to be the priority for him and you were never going to be.

 

I

I appreciate your words of encouragement, and also directness that helped bring some rationality and reality back into me.

I think you intellectually talked yourself into the idea that you could handle being in a open relationship by believing you would have been higher on the priority list for him than others might be. In fact, it was never going to happen because (it sounds like) he would always be searching for the next bit of tail and you would always be wondering if someone he was having sex with might supplant you on the ladder. This is another reason that many poly relationships fail.

 

People do want to be valued and when there is a question of where they sit in a hierarchy, their sense of value is diminished.

[sooshi]

Thank you so much for sharing, Carrie. I'm so sorry to hear about what happened in your marriage, but am glad you stood up for your values. You are so brave and strong.

 

You're right--I did think I would be the priority for him, and that is what I've wanted. I feel selfish for wanting that and have tried to not want that because it does make me feel selfish. He said early on that we would be the core, so that's what I was believing would be the case, until he recently said that he doesn't want partners and to just love freely and not pour himself into a person. I must be rather co-dependent, because I've been trying to make that work for me too. But it must not be what I really want, because there is too much dissonance.

 

Thanks again for sharing, and for your insights. <3

[CarrieT]

I'm so sorry to hear about what happened in your marriage, but am glad you stood up for your values. You are so brave and strong.

Thank you. I will say that after that divorce, I was single (dating, other long-term relationships, a lot of experimentation) for 24 years. I did end up meeting someone and getting married - just a few years ago. So true love IS possible!

 

I feel selfish for wanting that and have tried to not want that because it does make me feel selfish.

It is perfectly okay to be selfish when it comes to one's relationships; they are the core of what makes us whole.

 

He said early on that we would be the core, so that's what I was believing would be the case, until he recently said that he doesn't want partners and to just love freely and not pour himself into a person.

He wants to be a player. That is all.

 

I must be rather co-dependent, because I've been trying to make that work for me too. But it must not be what I really want, because there is too much dissonance.

I don't think you are co-dependent at all. I think you were trying to fit into a mold that many poly people build when you are, in fact, a monogamous at your core.

[BC1980]

Sooshi, I think you can do better than this relationship. I know it's hard right now, but, in the long run, I think you are going to thank your lucky stars that this ended.

[sooshi]

Carrie, I'm so glad you found true love in the end! You certainly experienced so much to get there.

 

I really don't think that he's a player. He believes that love is infinite and that we should be able to love freely, and not to prevent someone else from expressing and receiving love. I agree. It is just harder for me to actually live that when it comes to him being with other women. It is a lot harder than I thought it would be, and I have felt really bad about feeling jealous. I wish I were perfectly fine with it.

 

Many people in open relationships work through these feelings over months and years. I had less than three weeks to work my feelings (three weeks from when he started spending time with another woman who is in an open marriage) until he couldn't take the dissonance anymore.

 

BC1980 and Carrie, I know in my hear that you're both right. It was a good thing it ended. It's not what I want to hear, but what I need to hear is the truth, and you've both helped me see things more clearly. Thank you.

 

I miss him a lot though.

Edited May 28, 2016 by sooshi

[sooshi]

Now that I've had some time to myself and think things through, I really believe that, yes, I am monogamous at heart (as Carrie said). The idea of having multiple romantic relationships is unappealing to me. I suppose it was appealing to me on and off for a while, and maybe it was more so that I could convince myself that polyamory was what I wanted, since it was what he wanted, and I wanted us to be together. I know the idea of loving freely did seem appealing, too, from a philosophical perspective.

 

But no matter how I look at it, in the end, we both want very different things. He wants to live in a communal setting, and being open to have physical/emotional relationships within. A free-love sort of thing. It's not for me. I'm all for living in community (with a focus on respect, compassion, etc.), but a free-love atmosphere doesn't resonate with me.

 

I've also come to realize that a romantic relationship isn't a priority for me at this time in my life. He's all I've ever known and it's hard to move on fully.

 

I want to know about his life, but it will most likely hurt. I hate that it would hurt. It makes me feel like I don't truly love. I wish he could just live his life and that I would be completely happy for him when he lives the life he wants.

 

Thanks for listening. It helps to write on here instead of going into Facebook and seeing what's been on his mind.

[sooshi]

I caved in because of excessive anxiety and went on FB. He seems happy. I'm glad for him. Seems almost like a stranger to me now. Now I feel so sad.

Edited June 12, 2016 by sooshi

[Els]

I caved in because of excessive anxiety and went on FB. He seems happy. I'm glad for him. Seems almost like a stranger to me now. Now I feel so sad.

 

You dodged a huge bullet, girl! I know you feel sad now, but it'll get better. Whereas the situation you described with him wouldn't - you would've been unhappy the entire time until you managed to leave, at which point you would be where you are now, just several years down the road. Chin up!

[sooshi]

I appreciate your words of encouragement, Elswyth. Right now, I don't feel like I've dodged a bullet. He's into treating everyone equally--compliments people like they're gods and goddesses, and thinks that investing more love and energy into one person over another goes against his belief that we are all one.

 

It's nice that he seems happy.

[BC1980]

I caved in because of excessive anxiety and went on FB. He seems happy. I'm glad for him. Seems almost like a stranger to me now. Now I feel so sad.

 

FB will get the best of you. I looked at my ex's wife on FB once, and it didn't make me feel good after it. It is weird how a person becomes a stranger to you. That was on of the more difficult parts for me to accept. I wanted him to become a stranger, and, eventually, he became a stranger. Still, it's just weird. I don't know how to describe my feelings about that.

 

I remember that mix of emotions. One day, I'd hate him. The next, I'd miss him. It evens out and pretty much disappears over time.

[BC1980]

I appreciate your words of encouragement, Elswyth. Right now, I don't feel like I've dodged a bullet. He's into treating everyone equally--compliments people like they're gods and goddesses, and thinks that investing more love and energy into one person over another goes against his belief that we are all one.

 

It's nice that he seems happy.

 

His basic philosophy and way of life just isn't compatible with yours. I know that fact doesn't make this any easier, but you will look back, years from now, and be able to understand that. Once you get out from under this cloud of emotion and you stop loving him, you will be able to see it. I see it now with my ex, and I didn't for a long time. I felt I had messed up my chance for happiness. I chuckle at that now, but it was real to me at the time.

[devilish innocent]

Sooshi, your posts are incredibly frustrating to read. You keep putting yourself down. First you disliked yourself for getting jealous about the fact that he wants a poly relationship. Then, you put yourself down for feeling hurt about his moving on. Most people are not comfortable with polygamous relationship. The vast majority people dislike seeing their ex move on shortly after a break-up. Do you really think all of those people are bad people? That is just being human. If somebody was truly incapable of feeling hurt, then they would just be a cold robot, rather than a human with a beautiful soul. You really need to show some compassion for yourself and learn how to love yourself.

 

Then you talk about him as though he is a really kind-hearted person. I only needed to take a quick glance through some of your old posts to see that he's not. He pursues your best friend behind your back. He admits to playing games and manipulating you into breaking up with him. He tells everyone you are a drama queen just because you block him on Facebook. Those aren't the actions of some enlightened monk. Those are the actions of somebody who doesn't have a ton of compassion for others.

 

I would suggest writing down all the terrible things he's done to you over the years. Any time you find yourself thinking about how great he was, go back and reread it. This will help you get over him faster.

 

I also worry for you. There's no reason for him to try to come back and pursue a little side action with you in the future. The way you idealize him, you would be likely to fall right back into his trap and end up even more hurt next time. Last time he broke up with you, you moved on in a superficial manner. You never did the deep soul-searching you needed to do, or you wouldn't have gone back. In your own words, you were a "doormat" the first time. Yet, you went back to being a doormat again. Until you really begin to understand why he is no good for you, until you really begin to believe you are worthy of more, you are going to be an easy mark for him. That's not as simple as saying the words. It's going to take months of reminding yourself of these things over and over again before you know the truth deep down in your core. I really hope that some day you do know it at that level. You are a beautiful person on the inside. You truly deserve more than you're offering yourself at the moment.