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I had posted on here 3 years ago while I was in my marriage. I am now divorced and moved on. I hope I am posting in the correct forum as I am finding myself in need of some real life advice from you guys. I will try to keep it short and easy or read.

 

In April 2014 I went out with a friend of mine and her husband. She brought along a friend that was in town visiting. He moved away to Minneapolis 14 years prior. Well, he and I hit it off as we were two peas in a pod but he lived 3 hours away. We did begin a long distance relationship and would each take turns going to see the other one. We had a few bumps but worked through them. We always talked on the phone or through text. I mean all the time.

 

We made our first big plans together for July 4 and going out of town together. I was 39 he was 38. I had an IUD in place but during this trip we conceived our son. The timing is spot on. Yes, I was nervous because well my youngest was 8 and I hadn't wanted anymore. He had an 16 year old daughter who has nothing to do with him and he doesn't her. He walked out when she was 18 months old. He had no other kids and had only had one serious girlfriend of almost 2 years but she was married the whole time then ended up leaving him divorcing her hubby and marrying a totally new man. So he basically had a bunch of one night stands or few month flings but his family was shocked when he brought me home.

 

He still lived away and was super excited about our pregnancy. He started to make plans to move back home where I live. I found us a place together and we moved in together in December 2014. He had never lived with another woman. He never had his own home. He always lived in friends basements as a bachelor. so this would be the first time he lived with a girlfriend. We hadn't even been together a year and I was due in April. We should have discussed who would pay what and all that stuff but apparently I was stupid and blinded by love he kept saying that he would handle things until I could get back to work etc.

 

Moving along we had our arguments as it was an adjustment for him to have lived his whole life just for him and now he has been thrown into a pregnant gf situation. We spent a lot of fun times together and talked about marriage numerous times. He comes from a broken family with an alcoholic father and mom that abandoned them. His dad has been to rehab several times in the last two years and well his younger brother is an alcoholic also. He liked hanging out at this brothers house all the time bc he drinks too. but it was greatly reduced by me.

 

Trying to do this short but give background. Fast forward I give birth in April and all hell broke lose and we broke up May 1 2105. yep just that fast. He couldn't handle things. He moved in with his dad and I found a place. Things got bad with him saying I got pregnant on purpose to ruin his life etc. He needed to focus on work etc.....

 

We never gave up we would fight and never technically got back together but would spend time together and we share custody of our son. we moved into the same apt complex but different buildings. We talked and kinda rededicated to each other saying we would work on things slowly and hang out be good parents all that stuff. About a month ago I started noticing a pattern he would be nice and sweet and we would spend time together and kiss and hold each other. Then the next day he would basically give me the silent treatment. not answering texts even when we had plans together.

 

This pattern got worse and then name calling started and then he said I had trust issues bc I was questioning him being over at his brothers house when this woman was there that is still married but separated and hangs out over there flirting and all that. yes I did question it. He told me last week it was over for good and too far gone to fix, just out of the blue.

 

3 days ago I stayed with him. he talked totally different like we were still trying and we weren't single. Last night he came to get our son and just went off about me going out.I wasn't going anywhere I was staying home. He just went off on me saying again how it was over for good etc. I commented that yes he already told me that and ok its over. which only made him more mad.

 

it was him saying we are done and then me saying ok and then him saying I cant believe you are ok with this. then I am saying I am not I wanted us to work and then he says we will never work . wash rinse repeat......

 

so basically he is saying its over but getting mad if I don't respond in an overly emotional begging way. He says we can try again and then takes it back. he is so angry at me saying he thinks I am seeing someone. where did that come from? I wanted this to work he knows that.

 

I know this is probably a mess. I started to get emotional and well went down hill in my writing.

 

what is in his head? feel free to ask whatever and please no holds barred.

 

thanks

 

I am trying not to panic right now

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Looks like he wants his freedom to do whatever he likes but also does not want you to have a life or see anyone else. He's controlling, and manipulating.

The girl I am currently seeing has her ex in the picture, he is the same, thinks he owns her and doesn't want her but doesn't want her to have a life either.

 

I think this is up to you to totally end this with him and only communicate with him about your son. This will keep going on forever..

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justanotherguy1

Hi :) .. Its not difficult to understand. its simple . this is a man with lady parts. thats it really. I mean cmon, at his age shouldnt he be more focused on whats important to him and keep his life going in a positive direction. You guys hooked up had a great time then had a baby, its not that he;s blind he knew where everything was heading.

 

Now he's putting so much pressure and blame on you simply put, he is dissapointed at himself and his life. Thats how i see it though.

 

Why else would he constantly make arguements, dodge plans and make little effort to really make this work. he is very unsure about his life which is a huge problem .

 

I dont know him, you do more than me. But he needs to really step up if he is serious about you and the child you have together. Theres only so much you can do.

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I just cant understand the back and forth with things almost every 2-4 days. One day I am his world and his best friend and the next he just wants to focus on his job and our son. He is very controlling especially when he is bored with nothing to do. Tonight he is at his brothers with our son and he made sure that I knew that chick would be there hanging out.

 

Also guys especially, where does this anger come from? I mean its bad and really nasty with the name calling and saying I ruined his life. It has gotten really bad the last two weeks. Again, one day he says we are done and so I take him at his word and just try to communicate about our son. Then he comes over to my apt to pick up our son and ends up hugging me and we talk about his work and my school and work and watch TV together basically stay up all night just holding each other then the next day I don't hear anything from him when he makes plans for us to go eat later with our son.

 

But again why so mad when I am giving him what he asks for.

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justanotherguy1

This truly sounds like a trip for you. I mean one minuite he's there then he's not. One minuite he he's in love then the next he doesnt give a ****. Is this what you really want.

 

He just wants to live his life this way, live how he wants, he knows your there wenev he wants to fuel his emotions. when he's angry he's got you to insult and lash out at, when he wants loving he hhas you for that.

 

This will jeopardize your happiness and your future happiness with someone else. You really seem to be putting out and you deserve someone who is doing the same. He's a 40 year old man in an 18 year olds mindset. Im saying 40 but idrk lol..

 

At the end all you really deserve better you know. I know you want him to change and work things out but he has to be willing to do that.

 

You need to give him that ultimatum because while he is there playing games, your life is going by.

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A question you should ask yourself is why you are willing to accept this mediocre treatment (i.e. he's the one calling all the shots. By your own admission, you'd take him back if he changed his mind) and why you'd have unprotected sex with a man who sounds like he is a loser for all intent and purposes. He has a child he knows nothing about and walked out on and hasn't really had experience with mature long-term relationships. There were a ton of red flags in the beginning you chose to ignore.

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justanotherguy1, you are pretty much on target. He reels me in and we have these deep discussions about the future of our family and then BAM........nothing. I have been tossed back out to sea. He makes plans to come hang out or for us to go renew our Sam's membership then I just don't hear from him. Then the next time I see him its like nothing happened.

 

I am finally getting that this is a game. He is unofficially diagnosed as bipolar. I say unofficially bc his family dr that treats his ADD with tons of Ritalin says she is sending him to a psychiatrist and therapist bc she believes he has this other disorder. He of course is saying he doesn't have it but has to go along or his dr wont write him anymore Ritalin prescriptions. Trust me he is HELL to deal with without the Ritalin.

 

This is NOT what I want. I guess like most people you sometimes thinks things will change but his world is all about him. He will say its about his son and him but if it comes down to his ego or our 8 month old son his ego wins every time.

 

He spent the night at his alcoholic brothers house apparently he was drinking heavily too bc he never made it home. He has our son this weekend. But his family acts as enablers for each other. They never challenge the others to get better.

 

I just have to stay strong and I am not going to lie this hurts bad. I tried and I don't know what else to do.

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oh kidm, you are asking me questions I ask myself now and cant believe I just chose to either ignore the signs or to believe the stories I was told to explain them.

 

Such as his situation with his daughter. Kinda a one night stand that eneded up with a baby. he said they tried to make it work but couldn't so he left and moved 4 hours away. he claims he tried to see his daughter but she wouldn't allow him to. I did ask why he didn't go to court and fight he said he was too young to care.

 

BTW he is 39 will be 40 in August.

His family with the drinking and the way they were all so codependant freaked me out but I really never had a family growing up so I didn't really know. plus I am from a different part of the country and things are way different here than in the South.

I had basically ben divorced about a year when I met him I really don't know besides low self esteem issues .

 

I see a lot I need to work on with myself. Coparenting with him is not going to be any fun lol

 

How do I stand my ground without seeming to be a bitch? That's not my personality at all.

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justanotherguy1

Now he's putting so much pressure and blame on you simply put, he is dissapointed at himself and his life. Thats how i see it though.

 

Why else would he constantly make arguements, dodge plans and make little effort to really make this work. he is very unsure about his life which is a huge problem .

 

you sent that to me and I think that is pretty spot on. He says all the time he isn't where he should be in life. But instead of fix it you just ignore things and drink? But yet yells at me if he thinks I should be studying as I am in nursing school currently. I recently broke my hand and wrist and couldn't work in the nursing home I was working in and had to take time off and he complained the whole time about me not working. Mind you he doesn't pay any of my bills nor live with me. Ugh

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Gr8trgirl,

 

I hear your pain and anguish on the issues with the father / BF.....however now is the time to begin to protect the innocent child. Forget about the relationship and anything else with him. Be a Mother first . My personal history of having a bipolar mother has had life long effects on me. I can't imagine having to spend time isolated with someone with BPD UNTREATED (if indeed he does have this disorder) and what the end results of that would be.

 

There is a reason his daughter has nothing to do with him and why he has never had a lasting long-term relationship with someone else. He skips from ONS to ONS with the typical duration of a relationship being a month or so....

 

File for Child Support and petition for supervised visitation at the most...you do not want him alone long-term with the baby while untreated and un-medicated. This has the potential for very bad results IMO and from my experience.

 

If he becomes compliant with a treatment plan and adheres to it for a full year, then you might consider progressing the relationship but not before. My bet is that he will not have that commitment though.

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kgcolonel, thank you for the response and I believe me I do my best to protect our son. We have already gone to court on this issue when things were better between us and he wasn't swinging so wildly back and forth. He initiated the process by hiring a lawyer a month after we split up thinking I was going to leave and take our son back to my home state of Florida. So he pays for this expensive lawyer when I am NOT going anywhere but anyway as of now we have joint legal and shared physical custody. We live in the same apartment complex just different buildings. We had been doing the shared parenting time as they call it on his work schedule like he has him M,T then I have him W, T, F then he has S, S then I have M, T, he has W, T , F and then I have S, S. it was working out but like I have said it has really been the past month or so that he has gotten worse with his rages and anger towards me and I don't know where that comes from. I am being as cordial as can be concerning our son and I have been tolerating his outbursts and then playing nice when they were over.

 

I am going to wait to pursue anything court wise until after his appointment with this actual psychiatrist. I think that will give me more fuel.

 

Do you know that feeling when you thought you loved someone more than anything in the world but then you kinda realize that maybe you don't? That's where I am now. Granted that might change when I actually know if he is seeing someone or whatever but I am sure he will eventually be the same way with her.

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ExpatInItaly

This guy has issues that extend far beyond his problems with you. His anger and manipulation and emotionally abusive tendencies weren't caused by you and thus cannot be "fixed" by you either. For your own sanity, you need to sever your romantic relationship with him. He isn't a well person and it will cause you more heartache to maintain any sort of attachment to him beyond co-parenting. I think you're now seeing why he has never had a solid relationship with a woman, and perhaps also why he has no relationship with his teenage daughter.

 

Don't bother trying to understand why behaves this way, because you won't be able to. Your brains aren't wired the same. One of my exes suffers from a diagnosed but untreated mental illness too, and I finally gave up trying to make sense of it. I will never be able to because I don't suffer the same condition.

 

Consult a lawyer. Find out what your child's rights are in terms of custody and financial support. Do this immediately. Yep, he will get mad. But you know what? Your child is much more important than this clown's juvenile temper. Don't let him control you anymore.

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justanotherguy1
justanotherguy1

Now he's putting so much pressure and blame on you simply put, he is dissapointed at himself and his life. Thats how i see it though.

 

Why else would he constantly make arguements, dodge plans and make little effort to really make this work. he is very unsure about his life which is a huge problem .

 

you sent that to me and I think that is pretty spot on. He says all the time he isn't where he should be in life. But instead of fix it you just ignore things and drink? But yet yells at me if he thinks I should be studying as I am in nursing school currently. I recently broke my hand and wrist and couldn't work in the nursing home I was working in and had to take time off and he complained the whole time about me not working. Mind you he doesn't pay any of my bills nor live with me. Ugh

 

You see the thing is for him he doesnt see the need to change or improve. He can go chill with his brother whenever, he's got a job and somwhere to stay. He's not looking to improve himself for no one at this stage of his life which is so selfish.

 

He doesnt even see the need to change for you or his son. Some people reach a point in there life when they just give up and are content with where they are. unfortunately for you he is that guy.

 

But you got your life to live. I think you both said you have kids so im sure the chid will come first here since you both have experience and you are a responsible loving woman.

 

Live your life, its a roller coaster ride with this guy and would only afect your life negatively.

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Both of you are very right. I need to untangle myself from this and NOT get back involved.

 

justanotherguy1- we have an almost 9 month old son together and he has a daughter that will be 18 in February which he has nothing to do with and she has nothing to do with him. So basically our son is his first child and oh boy does he like to be in control of everything that I do with our son yet I don't even know where he is right now with him. He isn't home he didn't come home from his brothers as they sat over there and drank. uh...well I know this is not going to be easy but I have to save myself and my son.

 

Roller coaster is the exact term I use when describing it.I have even said it to him. He doesn't see it. He doesn't see that his words and actions need to match for there to be trust and that we have to communicate to rebuild like we had discussed. Which now for me is not going to happen because I have had enough.

 

I know looking for answers isn't going to help but that the one thing that I get stuck on. The why is he so angry at me? I didn't do anything to trigger it. I have noticed it when he is stressed like when its bill paying time and rent is due or his car payment. He lets that car payment slide for months. Then freaks out. Oh well not my problem.

Another thing that bothers me is that he freaks if he thinks I am dating or talking to some other man. I am not at this time. I am healing myself and have my son, school and work. But he goes mad. Then starts texting me its a two way street and that things are changing for him in the dating situation. ummm what? Where does that come from? I realize that we only just really called everything off permanently. Well I did. He says he did then says no he wants us just needs time and I have to work on myself and I have to change meaning me. lol

 

Supposedly he is starting to talk to his brothers neighbor who is still married but separated bc her hubby cheated and got another girl preggers. DRAMA . I cant wait to see how this works out. She is all the time over at his brothers house hanging with his wife and drinking of course. I guess we shall see and yes I am not going to lie it does make me a tad jealous but then I think its only time before everything comes out. so....

 

Thanks and please if you have more or want to add anything do so. I need all the helpI can get here.

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Gr8rgirl, I think I can see a light beginning to come on. One key element is for you to take control here. Don't wait for any actions on his part....that is the same as remaining in a Romantic relationship with him....for your son's sake, seek an attorney's advise and help and request the court to require psych evaluation. If he is fine then everyone knows it, if he is not fine, then decisions need to made to protect your son. Trust me, one cannot have or be in a meaningful relationship when not being treated for a disorder causing behaviors that are detrimental the themselves and their children.

 

Again, there's a reason he was unattached in this case.

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ExpatInItaly
Both of you are very right. I need to untangle myself from this and NOT get back involved.

 

justanotherguy1- we have an almost 9 month old son together and he has a daughter that will be 18 in February which he has nothing to do with and she has nothing to do with him. So basically our son is his first child and oh boy does he like to be in control of everything that I do with our son yet I don't even know where he is right now with him. He isn't home he didn't come home from his brothers as they sat over there and drank. uh...well I know this is not going to be easy but I have to save myself and my son.

 

Roller coaster is the exact term I use when describing it.I have even said it to him. He doesn't see it. He doesn't see that his words and actions need to match for there to be trust and that we have to communicate to rebuild like we had discussed. Which now for me is not going to happen because I have had enough.

 

I know looking for answers isn't going to help but that the one thing that I get stuck on. The why is he so angry at me? I didn't do anything to trigger it. I have noticed it when he is stressed like when its bill paying time and rent is due or his car payment. He lets that car payment slide for months. Then freaks out. Oh well not my problem.

Another thing that bothers me is that he freaks if he thinks I am dating or talking to some other man. I am not at this time. I am healing myself and have my son, school and work. But he goes mad. Then starts texting me its a two way street and that things are changing for him in the dating situation. ummm what? Where does that come from? I realize that we only just really called everything off permanently. Well I did. He says he did then says no he wants us just needs time and I have to work on myself and I have to change meaning me. lol

 

Supposedly he is starting to talk to his brothers neighbor who is still married but separated bc her hubby cheated and got another girl preggers. DRAMA . I cant wait to see how this works out. She is all the time over at his brothers house hanging with his wife and drinking of course. I guess we shall see and yes I am not going to lie it does make me a tad jealous but then I think its only time before everything comes out. so....

 

Thanks and please if you have more or want to add anything do so. I need all the helpI can get here.

 

OP, you need to put on your Mama Bear hat here.

 

Your ex is in the care of your 9-month-old baby, while he is sitting and liekly getting drunk with his brother, and you don't know where they are now?

 

I'm sorry but you need to step it up in a big way. This is not a safe environment for a baby.

 

Why on earth are you tolerating that??

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Right now I have no choice as we have a court order. I know his brother's wife and I am betting our son was in her care. But he goes to sleep at 600pm so I am sure he put him down in a pack and play over there and he slept while daddy got drunk. This morning I can see he isn't home as we live in the same complex of apartments. I think he wants me to worry and think something is going on with him and the neighbor girl but in reality he is probably trying to stay away from home by taking our son to see his father or his sister or his great grandma. Anything to keep from him being home alone. He hates it. His apt is a mess. Not garbage but tons of clutter. He has chores he needs to do but he runs from them.

 

I am planning on speaking with my lawyer on Monday and seeing what I can do to change something a bit. He is being basically forced by his family dr to see a therapist and psychiatrist because she thinks there is something more than just the ADD she treats him for and told him either you go or I will not write anymore Ritalin prescriptions for you. He is pissed about that. I am hoping that an official diagnosis comes out of this and I can take that somewhere.

 

Thanks again all. I cant say this is easy its freaking tough. I am crying a lot today well bc I guess I had expectations and they got shattered.

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GatorGirl (aka, "Gainesville"), welcome back to LoveShack after your 3-year absence. I agree with Expat -- as I usually do -- that "This guy has issues that extend far beyond his problems with you."

 

He is unofficially diagnosed as bipolar.

Perhaps he does suffer from bipolar. Most behaviors you describe, however, are warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) -- not bipolar disorder. Specifically, the traits you mention -- i.e., event-triggered anger, controlling behavior, lack of impulse control, low empathy, irrational jealousy, verbal abuse, icy withdrawal, rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you), and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD.

 

Importantly, I'm not suggesting your BF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he might exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD. I caution that BPD is not something a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your BF exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

 

I just cant understand the back and forth with things almost every 2-4 days. One day I am his world and his best friend and the next he just wants to focus on his job and our son.
The repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship. It occurs because a BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that it is impossible for you to back away from triggering one of his fears without starting to trigger the other fear.

 

Due to this push-away and pull-back cycle, BPDer relationships are notorious for having numerous breakups. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before eventually ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll.

 

Why so mad when I am giving him what he asks for?
As I noted above, it is impossible to give a BPDer "what he asks for" without triggering one of his two fears. As you draw close to assure him of your love, for example, you will trigger a BPDer's engulfment fear. Although BPDers crave intimacy, they cannot tolerate it for very long. Due to his fragile, weak sense of self identity, he will quickly feel like you're trying to control him -- and he will get the scary feeling of being suffocated or engulfed. He therefore will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away. Yet, as you back away to give him breathing space, you unavoidably will start triggering his abandonment fear. Hence, if your BF is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), you are always in a lose/lose situation. You lose no matter what you do.

 

He is saying its over but getting mad if I don't respond in an overly emotional begging way. He says we can try again and then takes it back.
As I said, he will be "getting mad" no matter what you do if he is a BPDer. A BPDer craves intimacy and HATES to be alone. But he is so emotionally immature that he cannot tolerate intimacy for very long without feeling like you are suffocating and engulfing him. His predicament -- fearing the very thing he craves -- is why one of the best selling BPD books (targeted to the abused partners) is called I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!

 

Where does this anger come from? I mean its bad and really nasty with the name calling and saying I ruined his life.
Probably from his childhood. If your BF has strong BPD traits, he carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that TRIGGERS a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

 

I am finally getting that this is a game.
No, the flipping between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) is not a "game" if he really is a BPDer. That instability arises from his fears, which distort his perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations. Hence, if you are convinced that he is manipulating you and only playing games, you are describing the abusive behavior of a narcissist or sociopath -- not a BPDer.

 

He is very controlling especially when he is bored with nothing to do.
BPDers are very controlling because of their fears. When they start to feel engulfed and suffocated by intimacy, they control their partners by starting a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push them away. Similarly, when they feel threatened by abandonment, they will start love bombing their partners to reel them back in.

 

Importantly, that controlling typically is not done in a manipulative way. When the BPDer is starting a fight, for example, he truly feels anger and feels that you've offended him. He is unaware that he is being engulfed because his subconscious works 24/7 to protect his fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this by projecting the painful feeling or thought onto you. Because this projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, he consciously believes the outrageous accusation coming out of his mouth.

 

This is not to say, however, that a BPDer will never try to manipulate you. Because they are so controlling, sometimes they may try to manipulate. Yet, because they have little impulse control, they tend to be too reactive to their current feelings and thus fail to execute any manipulative plans they had. To be successful, manipulation requires careful planning and flawless execution.

 

Another thing that bothers me is that he freaks if he thinks I am dating or talking to some other man.... Where does that come from?
If he is exhibiting irrational jealousy whenever you speak to another man, it is coming from his abandonment fear -- if he is a BPDer. It is common for BPDers to have such a strong fear of abandonment that they see threats everywhere -- even where those threat do not exist.

 

I say unofficially bc his family dr that treats his ADD with tons of Ritalin says she is sending him to a psychiatrist and therapist bc she believes he has this other disorder.
Being diagnosed with ADHD (or ADD) as an ADULT is another red flag for strong BPD traits. Some psychologists believe adult ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) may be the same thing as -- or perhaps a subset of -- BPD (see, e.g., Adult ADHD and BPD).

 

He comes from a broken family with an alcoholic father and mom that abandoned them.
Most children raised by abusive parents do not develop BPD. Such abuse, however, greatly raises the risk for that to occur. This is why 70% of BPDers reported in a recent study that they had been abused or abandoned by a parent in childhood.

 

He had an 16 year old daughter who has nothing to do with him and he doesn't her. He walked out when she was 18 months old.
The vast majority of BPDers are high functioning and they love their own children. Granted, a BPDer loves in an immature way -- like a child would do -- but it is love nonetheless. Hence, walking out of a child's life is NOT a BPD trait.

 

I am going to wait to pursue anything court wise until after his appointment with this actual psychiatrist. I think that will give me more fuel.
Don't count on it. If your BF really is a BPDer, you cannot rely on HIS therapist to be candid with you -- or giving you anything you can use in court. Therapists routinely withhold the name of the disorder from BPDer clients -- and from their partners and insurance companies -- for the protection of those clients. If you're interested, I explain this in greater detail at Loath to Diagnose BPD.

 

If the psychiatrist that your BF will be seeing really does decide that he has bipolar-1 disorder, there is a 36% chance he also suffers from co-occurring BPD. Moreover, psychiatrists and other therapists have difficulty distinguishing between these two disorders in a 50-minute meeting held every week or two because it may take them two years to witness the dysfunctional behaviors you see all week long. It therefore is common for BPD to be misdiagnosed as "bipolar." I mention this distinction because, whereas bipolar usually can be treated quite successfully by swallowing a pill, BPD is very difficult to treat and medications will not make a dent in it.

 

I don't know what else to do.
I suggest that you protect yourself and your son by seeing YOUR OWN psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your son are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a look at my post at 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences, which is based on my experiences with a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son) and a BPDer (my exW).

 

If that description of BPD traits sounds very familiar, I would suggest you also check out my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs and my more detailed description of them in Rebel's Thread. If those descriptions ring many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these red flags will NOT enable you to diagnose your BF's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you decide whether your situation is sufficiently serious to warrant spending money on professional guidance -- and may help you decide whether your son is at risk. Take care, GatorGirl.

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Downtown,

 

Thank you so very much for the very thoughtful reply. I had came across the Borderline Personality Disorder by accident while trying to research this Bipolar stuff just in case he is diagnosed. I have to admit a lot of it seemed to fit a lot better than the bipolar. I myself have panic disorder and do see a pdoc myself and am trying to get in to see a therapist regularly. So I don't blame and place a stigma on mental disorders. I want to make that clear and I would have stood by him as he battled whatever because well I loved him. That seems weird to say. That loved instead of love. I just want him to get help because we have a son to raise together. Now I wanted to address a few things and see what you thought.

 

He does show these traits frequently and strongly. He is never wrong and everyone else doesn't know anything. He is racists and yells at people for even looking at him sometimes. Just driving down the road if anyone even looks in his direction he makes rude comments and just gets irate. He is almost always on edge even when things were good between us.

 

I did want to say that he didn't suffer abuse per se. His dad beat his mom and was a raging alcoholic still to this day. He has been to rehab at least twice in 2 years. Mom had enough and left. She left 3 kids behind as 2 had grown. my ex was one left behind but just for a few years.

 

As far as his daughter who will be 18 in February. He just said he was young and just left instead of dealing with it. He was gone until he moved back to be with me. He said he tried to see his daughter but her mom made it hard and the distance was a lot.Where our son is concerned he is so freaked about everything concerning him. He is an active dad in that he gets him and goes to drs apts with me. He buys things for him and makes sure he is taken care of but lately I have noticed that slacking a little. I cant put my finger on it but he has basically gotten sloppy I guess would be the best word. But yes I do have to say that the sun shines out our son's booty where my ex is concerned. I do worry about when our son gets older and can pick up on the environment around him more when he is with his dad and his dad's family. I know they love our son. His aunts would protect him with their lives I know that. But he for sure is in love with our son and one day I am the best mom and the next I am called a horrible mother and he says he is going to take our son. I notice he says "my" son and I try to say "our" son.

 

Your explanation of his push/pull , WOW that makes such sense. He has even said that he has trouble dealing with us being so close and he doesn't know how to handle love. He said his sisters told him that I show him unconditional love even knowing he has issues and I was willing to work on things and he says he doesn't know how to handle love. Now that I look back it was almost always like this. His soulmate and love like no other for a few days and then him needing space to breathe. But then giving space gets him scared like you said of being abandoned.

 

I wonder if the activities of the last week with us being basically shutting things down romantically if that's the reason why he has been spending so much time with his brother and family so that he is filling that void of not being alone and also not having to deal with being loving with me or having to push me away.

 

they just accept things and don't say anything. He doesn't have to answer for anything.

does that make sense?

 

I am pretty sure that he will tell me about what the dr says. I know that I cant het that info myself but if it comes to it can I get an evaluation ordered before our son gets too old.

 

How do I handle this then?

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I would have stood by him as he battled whatever....
That's the problem. If he has strong BPD traits, he almost certainly has not "battled" it. Indeed, he almost certainly is totally unaware he has such traits. By its very nature, BPD is invisible to nearly all of the folks suffering from it. I've never seen any figures on the share of BPDers who are self aware but my guess would be about 5%. And most of them lack the ego strength to do anything about fixing it (i.e., acquiring the emotional skills they never had a chance to learn in early childhood). Hence, I would be surprised if any more than 1% of BPDers ever stay in therapy long enough -- and work hard enough -- to make a real difference in their dysfunctional behaviors.

 

That seems weird to say. That loved instead of love.
I suspect you still love him very much. Most likely, the distinction is not between time periods (i.e., "loved" versus "love") but, rather, between "being in love" versus "simple loving." Even when BPDers are abusive, it can be very difficult to stop loving them, even when you no longer are "in love" with them. Because they typically have the emotional development of a 4-year-old, they exhibit an emotional purity and warmth of expression that otherwise is seen only in young children.

 

Hence, walking away from a BPDer -- especially for caregivers like you and me -- is extremely painful. It feels like you are walking away from a defenseless, needy child. But this implies, of course, that you actually have a parent/child relationship -- not a wife/husband relationship -- with the BPDer.

 

He is never wrong and everyone else doesn't know anything.
A BPDer is so filled with self loathing and shame (carried from childhood) that the last thing he wants to find is one more mistake or flaw to add to the long list of things he hates about himself. This, then, is one reason it is rare for a BPDer to admit to mistakes and take responsibility for his own actions. Like a young child, a BPDer blames someone else and, most of the time, he truly believes that other person is responsible.

 

There also is a second reason. Because the BPDer is emotionally stunted at about age four, he never had an opportunity to integrate the good and bad aspects of his own personality. That is, he never reached the level of maturity where he realized, when doing a bad thing, that he is essentially a good boy who occasionally does bad things. Taking that step toward maturity requires the child to integrate the good and bad and thus be comfortable experiencing ambiguities, uncertainties, strong mixed feelings, and the other grey areas of interpersonal relationships.

 

Instead, a BPDer is stuck -- just like a young child is stuck -- thinking only in black and white terms with respect to other people. He therefore categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all black" -- and can recategorize someone from one extreme to its polar opposite in just ten seconds, based only on a minor comment or action.

 

Importantly, a BPDer categorizes not only "other people" this way but also HIMSELF. This means that, if he recognizes he has done something wrong or has a flaw, he is "all bad." Moreover, because a BPDer is already carrying enormous shame from childhood, adding any further shame is extremely painful. For this reason, his subconscious mind works 24/7 protecting his fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. As I noted above, it accomplishes this by projecting all hurtful thoughts and feelings onto his partner or another person.

 

The beauty of projection -- and the reason it is such a wonderful ego defense for us as children -- is that the conscious mind is entirely unaware it is occurring. It therefore allows the BPDer to sincerely believe the outrageous allegations coming out of his mouth. And a week later, when he's saying exactly the opposite, he likely believes that nonsense is true too.

 

He is racists and yells at people for even looking at him sometimes.
As I said, people are categorized as "all good" or "all bad" if he is a BPDer. He therefore will think in black-white terms such as "with me" or "against me," "saved" or "not saved," "God's chosen" or "not God's chosen," and "always" or "never." BPDers therefore are extremely uncomfortable with seeing people as being in the middle grey area, where someone is essentially good but sometimes displays bad behavior.

 

I am the best mom and the next I am called a horrible mother and he says he is going to take our son.
The way he perceives of you as "the best mom" or "a horrible mother" is another example of the black-white thinking done by BPDers. Of course, young children think this way too. Your son likely will see you as "best mom" when you're bringing out the toys and as "horrible mom" when you take one away.

 

Just driving down the road if anyone even looks in his direction he makes rude comments and just gets irate.
The vast majority of BPDers are high functioning, which means they usually get along fine with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. NONE of those people pose a threat to the BPDer's two fears because there is no intimacy to trigger the engulfment fear -- and no close relationship that can be abandoned.

 

Hence, if your BF has difficulty getting along with those folks, it likely is due to something other than his BPD traits. This would not be surprising because most BPDers -- even those having full-blown BPD -- have at least one or two other disorders as well. For example, 66% of male BPDers also suffer from an anxiety disorder, 52% exhibit alcohol dependence, 31% have bipolar-1, and 76% have at least one other PD -- e.g., 47% have narcissistic PD, 19% have Antisocial PD (Sociopathy), and 16% have Paranoid PD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

Further, if he really does explode frequently toward complete strangers, I suggest you ask your psychiatrist (or psychologist) about IED (Intermittent Explosive Disorder). As I said, it is not common for BPDers to exhibit this behavior unless they also have something else causing it.

 

He is almost always on edge even when things were good between us.
What does this mean? Are you saying that YOU were always on edge around him, even in good times, because you never knew what would trigger his rage? Or, rather, are you saying that he was always irritable and grouchy even during the best of times? I ask because BPDers typically are WONDERFUL during the good times, while they are splitting you white. Granted, you never know what minor thing will trigger their anger next but, while they are being good, they are very VERY GOOD.

 

I do worry about when our son gets older and can pick up on the environment around him more when he is with his dad and his dad's family. I know they love our son.
Many of the high functioning BPDers do very well in raising their young children because, while they are very young, the children are fully dependent on them. They therefore don't trigger the BPDer's fear of abandonment or engulfment.

 

Yet, because the BPDers typically become very vindictive toward the partner who walked away, they may harm the child's development by doing everything they can to turn the child against the other parent. If the BPDer has shared custody, for example, he likely will make it extremely difficult for the other parent to pick up the child.

 

He says he doesn't know how to handle love. Now that I look back it was almost always like this. His soulmate and love like no other for a few days and then him needing space to breathe.
Yes, a BPDer can tolerate intimacy and closeness only for a short time. This is why a BPDer usually will create a fight -- to push you away -- right after a very intimate evening, immediately after a great weekend, or in the middle of a wonderful vacation or holiday. Generally, a BPDer behaves the very WORST immediately after, or during, the very BEST of times.

 

I wonder if the activities of the last week with us being basically shutting things down romantically if that's the reason why he has been spending so much time with his brother and family so that he is filling that void of not being alone and also not having to deal with being loving with me or having to push me away.
Perhaps. As I said, BPDers HATE to be alone. But, remember, BPDers crave intimacy like nearly every other adult does. Hence, if your BF is a BPDer, he likely will crave the intense intimacy that you can provide -- and is not provided by his brother's family.

 

I am pretty sure that he will tell me about what the dr says.
If your BF is a BPDer, my main concern is not about the information he withholds from you but, rather, the information the psychiatrist withholds from him. If you follow the link I provided above, you will find my discussion about why therapists generally are loath to tell a high functioning BPDer the name of his disorder. This is why I encouraged you to ask your own psychologist (or psychiatrist) about this. In that way, you are ensured that the psych is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests, not those of your BF.

 

 

I know that I cant het that info myself but if it comes to it can I get an evaluation ordered before our son gets too old.
Granted, your psychiatrist cannot give you a diagnosis of a man he has never seen. Yet, after you've described how your BF has behaved over the past several years, he can give you his off-the-record opinion. That is, he can say "It sounds to me like you probably are dealing with...." If that seems to be a shabby approach to obtaining a professional opinion, remember that -- if your BF is a high functioning BPDer -- his own psychiatrist may have to see him for several years before he will ever witness (or hear about) the dysfunctional behaviors you see all week long.
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I made a list of the 12 differences and he hits BPD on everyone.

 

He picked up our son yesterday and I haven't heard from him since which is weird bc he always texts something.

 

yes, I meant that I was basically walking on eggshells even when he was the sweetest man ever He made me feel like no one else ever has.

 

Since you said he craves intimacy but hasn't had that kind of contact with me for about 4 days now you think he has someone else?

 

that would have had to been fast but?

 

I am freaking out

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I made a list of the 12 differences and he hits BPD on everyone.
That means you're seeing warning signs for BPD, not bipolar. It would be helpful if you would take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD warning signs and tell us which ones are missing or not strong.

 

Since you said he craves intimacy but hasn't had that kind of contact with me for about 4 days now you think he has someone else?
I have no idea what he's up to. Please keep in mind, however, that BPDers "crave intimacy" in the very same way that nearly every other adult does. Like other adults, they typically can do very well without intimacy for 4 days. Indeed, because intimacy suffocates them, they can do well without it far longer than most healthy adults.

 

When I said BPDers "HATE to be alone," I did not mean to imply they have a powerful need for intimacy every day or two. The main reason they hate to be alone is that, lacking a strong sense of identify, they don't even have "a self" to keep them company. A BPDer therefore is attracted to someone with a strong personality who can provide that missing self identity, thereby giving him a sense of direction and helping to center and ground him.

 

Significantly, a BPDer can obtain this identity and grounding from you regardless of whether there is any intimacy at all. It therefore is common, with many BPDers, for sex to go off a cliff following the wedding. The BPDer's primary need is for the identity, not the sex. And, of course, as soon as you provide him with that identity by being close to him and keeping him company, he will start to feel like you're controlling and suffocating him. Like I said earlier, you're always in a lose/lose situation with a BPDer because what he needs from you to hold one fear at bay is the very thing that triggers his other fear.

 

I am freaking out.... I guess I was prepared for something I could handle and now I am just a total mess with a panic attack.
If you can, please delay your panic until you've had a chance to confirm or negate what I'm telling you with your psychiatrist. Given what is at stake (i.e., your son and your happiness), it is important to seek a candid professional opinion. As to your son's safety at this moment, I note that BPDers typically love their own children very much. Hence, if your BF has no other serious disorders, it is extremely unlikely he would do anything to intentionally hurt your son.
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I actually have that list too I just didn't want to flood too much because I am really freaking out.

 

1. Black and white thinking. Him in a nutshell. Nothing is grey

2. yes he always says that I always or I never do this or that

3. yes he gets very jealous and really freaks out if he even thinks some other dude is in my world.

4. yes, he never ses what I do and what I sacrifice and my giving to the relationship its all about his sacrifices.

5. Flipping- THE WORST

6. Drama and for no reason then nothing. he wont even explain just goes off

7. very low self esteem when you know him you see it but tries to be cocky

8.OMG bad verbal abuse or silent treatment at the drop of a hat

9.yep, if I don't drop everything and do what he needs or says I am so horrible but when I need him he is unavailable

10.oh yes always some one elses fault never ever his

11.Spends way to much money on just junk and drinks too excess

12.He hasn't had a real relationship except a fling with a married woman and ons that lead to his daughter. he is 39. I am his first real relationship

13.oh gosh we were perfect made for each other and magic

14.He doesn't really rely on anyone he asks me to look over a proposal for work every now and then but no not really

15.He claims I am the cause of his stress especially right now but he drinks to distress

16.no friends just his enabling family

17.not really he has an arrogant way that he is right and he doesn't try to blend in really I mean he has never been in a social situation since I have known him that he hasn't tried to get out of

18.yep, no matter what facts are given to him how he sees it is how it is you cant tell him different you cant show him different.

 

sorry, I am just freaking. he is doing silent treatment and well I don't know how to handle this. This isn't like bipolar where meds can help. I actually bought a book today to help me and now ...ughhh

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