The mother of my child is a stripper now. I m not sure how to feel?

[lebowski99]

She's 20 and I'm 23. We were together for over 2 yrs, and we have a 1 1/2 yr old daughter together. We ended up breaking up because she became extremely jealous, manipulative and possessive. I did everything I could and I loved her with everything I have. It all just became too much. She had a very tumultuous child hood in which she endured sexual abuse by an older cousin, and her parents were never around. There's a lot that has contributed to her internal issues... While she was pregnant, she actually lived with me while both of her parents were in prison. I took a semester off of school to work, and supported her in every way. I'm about a semester from graduating at the largest University in my state, so right now she has my daughter during the weeks and I've been coming down on the weekends.

 

I'm just not sure how to take this. The mother of my child has already been leading a life that is compromising to the well being of my daughter, and she hangs out with people who are terrible influences on her. But I saw so much in this girl. When we were together, we used to share some very deep moments and we could have the most profound conversations I've ever had. She used to seem so extremely intelligent and in-depth. She had so much potential, and now she's my worst nightmare. She severely betrayed me near the end of our relationship, and she has been a nightmare to co-parent with. I just feel so disappointed and let down...

 

This is the same girl I saw so much beauty in (inside and out), and she does this stuff that's so destructive that I can't do anything about. Ughhh I just wish things were easier. How do I think with a better perspective and calm down?

 

It's just hard for me to take because this is someone I shared so many intimate moments with and gave so much of myself to. And she's become a totally different person now. She used to seem like she had so much self respect and she seemed to understand her own potential. But how can she just give herself away so easily and degrade herself? And I share a beautiful daughter with this person.

 

I don't mean to sound irrational right now, I can't help how I feel. I'd like to recourse my thoughts and extinguish any angst I'm feeling from this right now. I feel like I've moved on fairly well from the relationship, however, with possibly the faintest of lingering feelings for her. I really did love her more than I could have ever imagined... All feedback is really appreciated

[Downtown]

The mother of my child is a stripper now. How can she just give herself away so easily and degrade herself?

Lebowski, if your exGF actually is a BPDer, she has been suffering with so much self loathing (carried from her abusive childhood) that she often may feel that there is nothing left for her to "degrade." As we discussed two months ago in your earlier thread, the behaviors you describe are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

 

Several empirical studies have shown a strong relationship to exist between both stripping and prostitution and having BPD. One study, for example, found that 55% of strippers have full blown BPD. See If pornography made us healthy, we would be healthy by now :: Catholic News Agency.

 

She had a very tumultuous child hood in which she endured sexual abuse by an older cousin, and her parents were never around.

Most abused children do NOT develop BPD. Such abuse, however, greatly raises their risk for developing it -- and this is particularly true when the abuse is sexual. See BPD and Childhood Sexual Abuse and the study, Child Sex Abuse and BPD. Also see Sexual Abuse and Psychiatric Disorders and the study, Psychological Consequences of Sexual Abuse.

 

I mention all this because, if your exGF has strong BPD traits, your young child is at risk -- especially during the first 5 or 6 years of her life when she is trying to develop a cohesive personality and a firm sense of who she is. One danger is that she may have inherited a genetic predisposition to developing a mental disorder. Another is that a BPDer mother may create a very invalidating environment in which to grow up.

 

I therefore suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your daughter are dealing with. I also suggest that you start carrying a VAR whenever you are around your exGF so as to record any tantrums she has in front of your daughter. Also, it would be prudent to speak with a child-custody expert to see if the stripping activity -- together with recorded outbursts -- would win you custody (or a larger share of custody) in your State. Significantly, BPDers typically have the emotional development of a four year old, which makes them extremely difficult to deal with on childcare issues.

 

Finally, if you decide your exGF has strong BPD traits, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at the "Co-parenting after the Split" message board at BPDfamily. And I encourage you to keep posting here at LoveShack as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. We have hundreds of members who have been in toxic relationships with BPDers and many of them are now co-parenting with those BPDers. Moreover, you likely are helping numerous members and lurkers by sharing your own experiences here. Your August thread, for example, attracted nearly 500 views.

[Stage5Clinger]

You shouldn't try to feel any sort of way. You feel how you feel, man. Angry. Upset. Embarrassed. Depressed. Don't try to hide from it. Emotions aren't for nothing - you're meant to be upset sometimes.

 

As for the girl -- whatever dude. Let her be a whore. Your concern is for the well being of your child now. Make sure you do right by her at all times and things are going to work out for you.

[Tayla]

Get an attorney, establish a co parenting plan. Her means of employment seem legal so she is showing responsibility to provide financially for the child.

 

Unless you can show proof that the child is being neglected or abused, you'll need to be a bit more open to the fact that this MOTHER of your child has the same rights as you to be a parent.

[xxoo]

The stripper thing is the least of your problems. Everything else is more worrying.

 

What is the living situation like for your child? Is it safe and stable? Does the mother have help supporting her? I understand that you are trying to finish your degree, but your daughter may need you now.

[lebowski99]

Thanks a lot for the feedback everyone. I'm really trying to collect my thoughts and proceed in the most effective manner. It's honestly hard for me to prevent myself from being demeaning towards her and saying something negative. I've done everything I can to maintain a positive co-parenting relationship with her, but she has random outbursts sometimes when she doesn't get her way. Calling me names like bitch, ass hole, idiot, or anything else. But then she'll turn around IMMEDIATELY within the same hour, and often times ask me for a favor. But I realize I have to have strong boundaries.

 

And all of these things compounds one another. In my original post in August, I didn't mention having a child with this person because I didn't feel it was necessary. But as I mentioned, she did betray me very severely. And on Friday, she went off on me because I told her I was going to be running late to get my daughter, and she was calling me a pathetic father. And THEN when I went to pick up my daughter, she was with the person she betrayed me with at the end of our relationship. She had began seeing a COUSIN of hers (her second cousin), who used to be my best friend. But he had actually betrayed me yrs before and I stopped being friends with him. And then all a sudden she started sneaking around with him. I thought their relationship was over LONG AGO, but apparently not. She had such a smug look on her face and I could tell she wanted to hurt me... But I've done everything to be the best father possible and I've tried so hard to do right by the mother of my child and to help her out. And NOW I hear she's become a stripper.

 

I just feel hurt and I'm not sure how to sort through this. Over the summer I was gone for a couple of months for an internship that was out of state, and during that time I heard that she looked strung out on drugs and she had posted inappropriate videos with some guy on "snap chat" for everyone to see. But she wasn't like that AT ALL from what I could discern being with her. I saw SO MUCH in her and I'm someone who is very analytical and receptive on picking up even the slightest behaviors to truly gauge someone's true essence. Or at least I thought I was. How could this girl who was so sweet and sensitive and smart and so mentally strong become this person? Everything just adds to my angst. I don't get how she can do a complete 360. It's like nothing I offered her has had any type of positive influence on her WHATSOEVER and she doesn't appreciate it at all. She looks at me like a mistake and has made comments about how I'm ugly to her now and didn't satisfy her sexually and all of that...

 

But in spite of everything, I've held my tongue and calmly explained to her on several occasions that we're no longer in a relationship, and that I won't allow her to cause me to reciprocate her negativity towards me. I've done my best to put my pride to the side in order to create a harmonious relationship for my daughter. But then she acts like I don't care about my daughter because I have so much I have to do to graduate and I work a lot. But every weekend I have been there for my daughter. And whenever I haven't been in school or when I wasn't gone for my internship, I would have my daughter for multiple weeks in a row and the mother of my child would hardly even try to see my daughter. I was forced to take another semester off of school last Spring, and I had my daughter constantly. But I loved having my daughter and she's such a daddy's girl. She lights up when she sees me and she always wants me above anyone else. So I don't get how she can act like I'm a bad dad when the guys she messes with don't have cars, they don't have jobs, they don't go to school, and they sure as hell wouldn't be there to pick up their child every single weekend...

 

I appreciate all the links and info DownTown. It's nice to read about empirical studies that provide some concrete, reliable evidence on things so I can have a better understanding on what to expect and how to proceed. I REALLY appreciate that.

 

And as far as getting custody of my daughter, I'm not sure what I can do. I'm always working between going to class and doing class work. It would be nearly impossible for me to have her during the week because I wouldn't have time for her. When I was gone on my internship, my mom had my daughter nearly the entire time I was gone. But she said it was very difficult because she has so many other things to do and I can't count on her to really help me raise my daughter. Also, I'm not sure how to prove the circumstances that my ex is exposing my daughter to. But when I was gone, my mom would talk about how my ex had tried to hide from her a couple times so my mom couldn't take my daughter to her, and she would come out looking like a complete mess and like she was messed up on something. And I know that the mother of my child will leave my daughter with anyone when she doesn't feel like watching her, but again, I don't know how to prove there's any type of abuse.

 

I also talked to a Psychiatrist on my campus a couple times, and she also suggested BPD about my ex. But she didn't really suggest much help for how to proceed properly in my situation. Pretty much to keep doing what I'm doing.

 

But this is all so overwhelming and hard. I had a child with an absolute monster who tries to hurt me however she can. I don't know what to do and I feel helpless. This is so hard

[SammySammy]

Your ex is an adult. Despite your hope for her and her potential, you can't control what she does with her life.

 

The best thing for you to do at this point is to focusing on providing the best life possible for yourself and your daughter.

 

Do whatever it takes to finish your education and start your career as soon as possible. Then do what you can to make sure that little girl has as stable a life as possible through the positive and affirming influence of her father. You're her lifeline and she needs you desperately though she's too young to know it.

 

Good luck, young man.

[warshaw]

If she's as self destructive as you say and does all these terrible things you should have an excellent case to obtain full custody of your child.

[Downtown]

But she wasn't like that AT ALL from what I could discern being with her. I saw SO MUCH in her and I'm someone who is very analytical and receptive on picking up even the slightest behaviors to truly gauge someone's true essence. Or at least I thought I was.

Lebowski, yes, you likely are extremely good at picking up on other peoples' intentions and motivations, as I am. It is the highly empathetic people like us who are so strongly attracted to the "wounded birds," i.e., the people who strongly exhibit vulnerability (which is "catnip" to us).

 

Yet, if your exGF is a BPDer as you suspect, you were highly outmatched. BPDers are masters at emulating the best aspects of the person they are around. This process is called "mirroring." And, when a BPDer is strongly attracted to someone, she will pull out all the stops and mirror him so perfectly that BOTH of them will be convinced they have met their "soul mate."

 

How could this girl who was so sweet and sensitive and smart and so mentally strong become this person?

Importantly, BPDers do not do this mirroring to manipulate or deceive you (which is how narcissists and sociopaths behave). Rather, a BPDer does it because, having only an unstable and fragile sense of self, she has been doing this mirroring since early childhood as a way of fitting in and being loved. Because she has been thinking this way her entire lifetime, she is exceptionally good at it -- and thinks of it as such a natural way of thinking that she likely does not realize other people do not heavily use mirroring.

 

When the BPDer's relationship finally ends, it is extremely common for her ex-partner to be shocked to see his old GF exhibiting behaviors that he could not even have imagined she was capable. A BPDer may leave a neatly dressed attorney and strike up a relationship with a drug addict or a sloppily dressed biker.

 

Because a BPDer doesn't know who she really is (other than the false self image of being "The Victim"), she typically will meld flawlessly with a wide range of very different personality types. When she finds one whom she likes and is strong enough to ground her with his stable personality, she will mirror his best features.

 

It's nice to read about empirical studies that provide some concrete, reliable evidence on things so I can have a better understanding on what to expect and how to proceed. I REALLY appreciate that.

I hope I'm wrong but the next thing to expect, perhaps in a few years, is parental alienation -- i.e., where your exGF will try to hurt you by turning your own D against you. That is what is happening right now to my young nephew, who has a 6 year old D with a young BPDer he never married (thank goodness they did not marry).

 

The baby momma -- who is a stunningly beautiful young lady suffering from BPD and a BPDer mother -- has been making it very difficult for him to pick up his D and, in the past year, has started telling the D that her Dad is not a good man. My nephew thus has had to hire an attorney to take the baby momma back to court, where he will have to prove that she has not been complying with the child custody agreement.

 

I had a child with an absolute monster who tries to hurt me however she can.

No and Yes. If she is a BPDer as you suspect, she very likely is NOT a monster. BPDers generally are good people. A BPDer's problem is not being BAD but, rather, being UNSTABLE. That said, the behavior that is likely to come forth from a BPDer who has split you black -- and who fears you will cause her own D to abandon her -- almost certainly will be atrocious. At some point, you likely will have to turn it over to your attorney to deal with her. If you try to appease her, she likely will simply walk all over you and make matters far worse.

 

Moreover, if she has strong BPD traits, there is some risk she will create an environment in which your D develops it or another serious issue -- if you don't maintain a strong presence in your D's life. By having her even half time, you can give her the validation that a young child needs to be able to develop a cohesive self image (something her mother is lacking if she is a BPDer). Toward that end, I again suggest that -- in addition to participating here at LoveShack -- you start participating (or at least lurking) at the "Co-parenting after the Split" message board at BPDfamily.

[lebowski99]

Downtown--thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

I know how much energy it requires to sift through all of the information I have provided, while at the same time providing such great advice to such an extent as you have. It is a TREMENDOUS help to have someone to listen that can understand so well.

 

I'm so grateful that you can relate to my empathetic nature. I've been naturally empathetic since child hood. Although I can have a "no non-sense" type of demeanor at times when it's necessary for me to instill boundaries that are imperative to maintaining my self respect in a relationship. I think that aspect of my personality was derived from my very stoic grand father, however, I've always had a very big heart which I think I got from my mom. I try to utilize a delicate balance of attributes and apply them at the most effective times. I've literally tried to do EVERYTHING in order to make the situation as best as possible with my ex (using empirically studied strategies for communication, using what I've learned through experience), but it's so extremely hard.

 

Why do you suppose we're so empathetic? Can't that be detrimental to us; being attracted to the "wounded bird" type? I've heard about that, but I started developing feelings for her before I realized she had these problems. I loved her before she fully unveiled her issues. So how does that work? Because I've also had another ex who was EXTREMELY jealous as well, but I would categorize her more so as a histrionic type personality. And she was my first love in high school, but it was far easier for me to move on. She didn't posses such amazing qualities I thought the mother of my child had...

 

Also, I am concerned about my daughter developing BPD. How do I combat that? What can I do when she's with her mom so much? Are there early warning signs that would signal to me that my daughter may be developing this disorder?

 

One more thing I would like to ask about, is how my own self value has diminished some from her behaviors and words. I couldn't talk to the psychiatrist about this because it was too hard for me to bring up, and I haven't talked to anyone about this... But I've felt like I wasn't good enough almost. She could just so easily move on and betray me like it was nothing. And she felt absolutely no remorse. But I did EVERYTHING to satisfy this girl spiritually, mentally, and physically... She has said in the last few months that I'm ugly and she doesn't know what she ever saw in me. Said my penis is too small and didn't satisfy her. Which I'd say I'm about average size, and I know she has these issues so I should only take comments with a grain of salt. But it still hurts... Over time, it has taken a toll on me. She's said and done A LOT which has chipped away at me. But this is a girl who used to be obsessed with me. After sex she would be all over me and moaning and saying how she wants nobody but me forever. She would cry and say I'm TOO perfect and sexy and funny and smart... I also understand that's a part of the "splitting" aspect of BPD. But did she not believe any of that? Did she not feel the same connection that I did? How can she feel so perfect to me and it mean nothing to her. So with her "mirroring", will she feel that same connection with others that she did me? Was what we had nothing really special?

 

It just doesn't make sense because I truly do believe I have an extraordinary amount to offer a lover, and it feels like even when I gave my best, it wasn't recognized... There's just been so many issues with having to interact with her and I'm trying to be the best for my daughter. I've had all these questions in my mind but don't ever know where to go to seek answers

[Downtown]

Lebowski, I'm headed for the office so will only address a few questions. Will respond to your other questions tonight and tomorrow.

 

I'm so grateful that you can relate to my empathetic nature.

We have strong "cognitive" empathy, which is the ability to understand other peoples' motivations and intentions -- and to intellectually KNOW what they are feeling. But many narcissists and sociopaths also have substantial cognitive empathy, which makes them all the more effective at manipulating people. One thing that sets us apart from the narcissists and sociopaths, then, is our strong "affective empathy," the ability to FEEL how other people are feeling.

 

I've been naturally empathetic since child hood. Although I can have a "no non-sense" type of demeanor at times when it's necessary for me to instill boundaries that are imperative to maintaining my self respect in a relationship.

I suspect you are greatly overestimating your ability to maintain strong personal boundaries when around BPDers or other wounded birds. It is far more likely that, as with me, your boundaries come crashing down and you find yourself becoming "enmeshed" with that other person. That is, you are so intensely attune to her feelings that you have great difficulty seeing where YOUR problems stop and HER problems begin.

 

I've literally tried to do EVERYTHING in order to make the situation as best as possible with my ex (using empirically studied strategies for communication, using what I've learned through experience), but it's so extremely hard.

No, it is not "hard." Rather, it is simply impossible. If your exGF has strong BPD traits, she has a bottomless pit of need that makes it impossible to satisfy her or make her happy for any extended period. Indeed, a team of psychologists cannot do it. The BPDer must learn how to manage her own issues. Nobody can do it for her. The healing is an inside job. Trying to make a BPDer happy by doing things for her -- and by showing her your love and devotion -- is as futile as trying to fill up the Grand Canyon with a squirt gun.

 

Why do you suppose we're so empathetic?

My view is that it is a combination of genetics and childhood environment. The result is that, by the time we were in high school, you and I had already become the "little fixers" of the family -- trying to help other family members get along and be happy. The best explanation of this I've seen is Shari Schreiber's blog article. (But please ignore her other blogs describing BPDers because she has a very black-white view of BPDers, confusing them with narcissists and sociopaths).

 

Can't that be detrimental to us; being attracted to the "wounded bird" type?

In the field of religion, no, it is not detrimental. On the contrary, being totally selfless and giving is the path to eternal salvation, the key to entering heaven. In the field of psychology, however, yes, it is considered detrimental if we are overly empathetic and self sacrificing. In psychology, having a healthy productive life is all about achieving balance, not excess.

 

I share Schreiber's view that excessive caregivers like you and me have such a strong desire to be needed (for what we can do) that it far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). This becomes a problem to the extent we are unable to feel love unless the woman desperately needs us. The result is that we will walk right on past all the emotionally available women (BORING) until we find one who desperately needs us -- which is evident in the strong vulnerability she is projecting.

 

Having a desire to help people in need is actually a very good characteristic to have. It becomes a disaster, however, whenever we caregivers fall in love with BPDers. The relationship quickly becomes toxic -- taking on an addictive quality as with heroine addiction. The BPDer's contribution to that toxicity primarily arises from the predicament that love and intimacy will hurt her as much as it will help her.

 

She therefore will flip back and forth between pushing you away (when the intimacy hurts) and pulling you back (when her abandonment fear hurts even worse). The caregiver's contribution to the toxicity is an enabling behavior that harms the BPDer by destroying her opportunities to confront her own issues and learn how to manage them.

 

I've heard about that, but I started developing feelings for her before I realized she had these problems. I loved her before she fully unveiled her issues. So how does that work?

The way it works with BPDers is that, during the courtship period, the BPDer's infatuation convinces her that you're the nearly perfect man who has arrive to rescue her from unhappiness. In this way, the infatuation holds her two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay. She therefore is free to mirror your personality so closely that both of you are convinced you've met your soul mate. Hence, if she is a BPDer, she likely did love you, albeit in the immature way that a young child is able to love.

 

After 4 or 6 months, however, the infatuation starts to evaporate. This allows both fears to return, which means you would have started triggering those fears and seeing the anger released. At that point, you would start feeling as though she had deceived you and misrepresented herself. With BPDers, however, it usually is more accurate to say that you both were deceived by the infatuation.

 

The human condition is that, whenever we experience intense feelings (e.g., infatuation or anger), our intellectual judgment goes out the window. In this way, intense feelings produce distortions in our perceptions of other people. BPDers are like this too -- except that the distortions are times ten or twenty with them because, being unable to regulate their emotions, they experience intense feelings far more often. This, at least, is my understanding, Lebowski.

[xxoo]

Lebowski, you should assume yourself to be the one responsible parent, and figure out how to care for her full time. Look for daycare, inquire about getting assistance to pay for it if needed. Some universities have daycare.

 

Responsible single parents do this stuff all the time. I know it's incredibly hard, but they do it. When you said that your ex would hide from your mom so that she couldn't hand the baby back--that shows you can't depend on your ex to care for your child. I've seen this play out with other friends. You MUST be there for your child, even if it means school suffers. The child comes first. These first 5 years are crucial in her development.

 

What do other parents do? They use daycare, they make friends and create a social network. I've been the friend who watches a child for the day in a pinch, no problem, happy to do it. That's what friends do for each other. You need to think about yourself as a parent first now, and create this support system for yourself and your child. Your ex is likely going to slowly be less interested in caring for her, and it's going to be on you. Start now.

[stillafool]

I'm so sorry about what you and your daughter are going through because of

your ex. She might be a stripper but at least she has a job. Yes she treated and treats you terribly but you need to stop focusing on your past relationship with her and keep your focus on your daughter. It's over between you and your ex and whomever she was pretending to be when you were with her is obviously not the person she truly was. Now that you know what she is all you can do is try to raise your daughter above what her mother provides and hopefully one day have full custody. You should not have any conversations with your ex that doesn't involve your daughter.

[lebowski99]

You're so spot on, Downtown. I really do feel as if I can feel what others can feel. I felt like I could look into her eyes in our most intimate moments and seriously FEEL her pain and feel how much she just wanted to be loved. It made me want to love her so much more. It really is a blessing and a curse. I feel things at such a deep level, and with the right person it can be amazing I'm sure, but with someone with BPD it is pure hell...

 

And you're right. I probably have overestimated my ability to instill boundaries with her. I did try, but I probably didn't do nearly as well as I would like to of think I had. I remember her calling me and going crazy one time accusing me of cheating about 5 months into the relationship (when she really began to unveil her true self), and her telling me it was over. I was actually at the gym and my phone was in the locker, and when I got all of the messages my heart was pounding and I couldn't believe she would be saying all of that. She's done far more than that since, but it's just indicative of how things went. Instead of me not reacting to it and thinking to myself "I don't want to be with someone that acts like that anyways"... I gave in and did everything I could to convince her that I loved her and would never cheat. But so many instances like that occurred and it was a no win situation. Whether I professed my love she didn't believe me. And when I started to get pushed away and put far less effort in, it was a self fulfilling prophecy that I didn't really love her just as she had suspected.

 

It all really was like a drug addiction to. I craved her and we couldn't get enough of each other. But I was nowhere near as dependent as her. I still encouraged her to have a life outside of me, but she preferred that neither one of us had a life outside of each other, ultimately adding to my feeling of suffocation. I wonder, though, wouldn't it be less passionate for her being with someone who is less aware and less empathetic as someone such as myself. Because having a care giver type personality as I do and doing whatever I could to satisfy her on every level, wouldn't she be less satisfied with other people who don't offer her the same type of affection? I just don't get how she can talk so poorly about me and want to intentionally hurt me when I provided her with more than anyone else she's been with can. I'm not even going to get into the type of people she dates outside of me, but they really have no value whether it be mentally or materially. So I don't get why she would be drawn to people who can hardly understand 3rd grade literature, let alone her. Especially when I put in SO MUCH time to understand her. It's beyond me...

 

I do like that analogy to. I suppose it would be like filling up the grand canyon with a water gun. And I don't mean to ask these seemingly redundant questions. They're just ones that occur to me that I would like help sorting through. I know nobody on here or anyone in my life has any obligation to answer any of my questions, but I can't even begin to explain how much it helps me to have someone break down my thoughts with me and help me have a better understanding.

 

I know it's easy for people to say things like "you don't need to be focused on your relationship with her. Your child is what's important"... And I whole heartedly agree that my daughter is 100% the most important priority above anything else. I'm going to take any measures necessary to provide my daughter with the best environment possible. I'm going to talk to a lawyer soon, but I'm not sure how much I can prove that the mother of my child has done wrong.

 

But I feel like when people undermine my thoughts and tell me to disregard how I feel, it's like telling a depressed person to "get over it"... It's not as if I WANT these thoughts. I HATE these thoughts. I don't want to think about any personal feelings towards my ex. I just feel like I never got any closure and that may perhaps inhibiting me from FULLY moving on. Because I still hate the thought of other men touching on her and her possibly prostituting (I have a cousin whose girlfriend works at the same place and prostitution is a common occurence there) for men and giving her body away like that. Especially when this is a girl whose body and mind I cherished and valued and loved so much. At one point that was only for me to touch and love, and she can just throw it away. I wouldn't dare admit thinking that to anyone else, but I actually had trouble going to sleep last night thinking about this stuff. I really just can't help it. How do I move on?

 

I feel like I need another female in my life to take away my angst in regards to my ex, but I know that's not right. It just pains me sometimes knowing she is giving herself away so freely and having such a great time, when I'm so busy with school and work and my daughter on the weekends, that I don't have time to pursue a different love interest. And plus it shouldn't be the burden of anyone I'm with to lighten my stress. How do I do that on my own? Although I do just love having a female that I can share myself with and one that can be vulnerable to me and let me show her affection and love and allow me to make her feel loved. I crave fulfilling intimacy with a woman, but it's hard to find... All the while she is out giving herself away so easily

[lebowski99]

Also, are there varying degrees to which BPD is exhibited? I'm just wondering how it may look when comparing mild to severe BPD

[Downtown]

Also, are there varying degrees to which BPD is exhibited?

Yes, Lebowski, as I noted in my August 8 post, BPD is a "spectrum" disorder. This means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). Moreover, each of us is at different parts of the BPD spectrum during various stages of our lives. During early childhood, for example, we all behave like full-blown BPDers 24/7. And many of us behave that way again for a few years during adolescence, largely due to the hormone changes.

 

At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list.

 

Are there early warning signs that would signal to me that my daughter may be developing this disorder?

It is very difficult to spot a lifetime BPD problem in young children because, as noted above, they typically behave like BPDers 24/7 (or, rather, BPDers behave like young children). It thus is difficult for professionals to recognize the difference between a strong-willed or emotional child and one with severe BPD traits. Moreover, many children start behaving like BPDers again when hormones surge during puberty. Therapists therefore are extremely reluctant to diagnose full-blown BPD in anyone younger than 18 (but they nonetheless sometimes do so for teenagers having severe issues).

 

Generally, the closest therapists ever get to discussing BPD-like symptoms in children is ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder). Of course, it is normal for a child to exhibit oppositional behavior at certain stages of development. This behavior thus has to be very strong to be considered ODD, which generally begins during preschool years. Sometimes it develops later but it almost always develops before the early teen years. These ODD behaviors are so strong that they cause significant impairment with family, social activities, and school. See the Mayo Clinic Description of ODD.

 

My own self value has diminished some from her behaviors and words.... I've felt like I wasn't good enough almost.

One likely reason for that loss of self esteem is that, in order to keep a BPDer in the relationship, you almost certainly would have to walk on eggshells -- not behaving as your true self but, rather, as the person she expected you to be at that moment. The result is that the abused partners who remain in a BPDer relationship eventually feel as though they are no longer themselves. They feel like they've become an unrecognizable, different person entirely.

 

Yet, if you are only feeling "diminished" and "not good enough" after dating a BPDer for over two years, consider yourself very LUCKY. A large share of the abused ex-partners of BPDers come stumbling out of that toxic relationship feeling so utterly confused that they question their own sanity. Of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one MOST NOTORIOUS for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. It therefore is not surprising that therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going crazy -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

She has said in the last few months that I'm ugly and she doesn't know what she ever saw in me. Said my penis is too small and didn't satisfy her.... I know she has these issues so I should only take comments with a grain of salt.

No, you take comments "with a grain of salt" when they are made by a mature adult who might be mistaken about some assertions. Yet, if your exGF is a BPDer as you suspect, she likely has the emotional development of a four year old. You therefore should take these ludicrous claims as though they were being made by a hurt, angry kid on a school playground. For the record, I was called much worse than that in grade school. And junior high was no walk in the park either.

 

This is a girl who used to be obsessed with me. After sex she would be all over me and moaning and saying how she wants nobody but me forever. She would cry and say I'm TOO perfect and sexy and funny and smart...

Like I said earlier, the rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) are akin to the rapturous highs and painful withdrawals associated with Heroin addiction. It can be very very difficult to walk away when you're always thinking you may be just ten minutes from another high.

 

I also understand that's a part of the "splitting" aspect of BPD. But did she not believe any of that? Did she not feel the same connection that I did? How can she feel so perfect to me and it mean nothing to her?

If she is a BPDer, yes, she very likely believed it and experienced the same intense feelings you enjoyed. The primary reason that it seems like she didn't is that she is too emotionally immature to tolerate periods of strong conflicting feelings. As I tried to explain earlier, a BPDer will split off the conflicting feeling, putting it entirely out of reach of her conscious mind. Hence, although the loving feeling is still there, she is consciously unaware of it until something triggers a flip back to experiencing the other conflicting feeling. When you are around young children, you will see these rapid transitions happening frequently.

 

She could just so easily move on and betray me like it was nothing.

Because BPDers can flip in ten seconds to splitting you black, they can quickly put their loving feelings completely out of reach of their conscious minds. Hence, although those feelings are very intense and are still there, it will appear that a BPDer is able to turn them on or off like a light switch. This does not imply, however, that you meant "nothing" to her. Like a young child, a BPDer's perception of reality is essentially determined by whatever intense feeling is flooding her mind at this very moment.

 

It feels like even when I gave my best, it wasn't recognized...

Because BPDers have the full set of normal human emotions, they typically experience joy and appreciation when you make sacrifices for them. Hence, if your exGF is a BPDer, she likely did "recognize" and appreciate it when you gave your best. The main problem, then, it that this appreciation was short lived.

 

With BPDers -- as with young children -- trying to build up a lasting store of appreciation (so there is something to draw on during hard times) is as futile as trying to build a lasting sandcastle beside the sea. It will be washed away with the next tide of feelings flooding her mind, as I noted above.

 

So with her "mirroring", will she feel that same connection with others that she did me?

Most likely, yes. I note that, if she is a BPDer, she almost certainly HATES to be alone because -- without a strong sense of self -- she needs someone to provide stability and a sense of direction -- and to provide a cohesive personality she can emulate (i.e., mirror). Hence, although BPDers do value the individual differences of their various partners, a BPDer typically is attracted more to the relationship itself than to the particular attributes of her current partner. That is, she really really needs the relationship. If not with you, then with someone else. And he may be nothing like you.

 

Was what we had nothing really special?

Yes, you two did have something very special. Indeed, during the courtship period -- at which time her two fears were absent -- you likely experienced a level of passion and emotional intensity you had never seen before, not even in a movie. Unlike BPDers, normal women typically don't break out the fireworks when coming out of the gate so early into the relationship. It therefore can take some patience, on your part, to adjust to a normal, stable woman. They usually won't fall so hard for you in just two weeks that they are already convinced you are "the one."

 

Wouldn't it be less passionate for her being with someone who is less aware and less empathetic as someone such as myself.

If she is a BPDer, you are mistaken to conclude she wants you to know all about her, including even her feelings and thoughts. A BPDer lives in fear that -- even though you appear to truly love her day to day -- you will abandon her when you eventually discover how empty and needy she is on the inside.

 

Consider that a narcissist is so completely out of touch with his true self that he mistakenly believes that the false self image he projects is true. In contrast, a BPDer knows that her false self image is largely false. For that reason, and because she is incapable of trusting you, she fears you will walk out as soon as you figure out what you're dealing with.

 

Because having a care giver type personality as I do and doing whatever I could to satisfy her on every level, wouldn't she be less satisfied with other people who don't offer her the same type of affection?

If she is a BPDer, your love and intimacy is a double-edged sword, causing as much pain as joy. Because a BPDer has a fragile sense of who she is, she cannot tolerate intimacy/love for very long before it starts to feel suffocating, controlling, and painful. This is the "engulfment" fear I mentioned earlier.

 

The result is that, as you draw near to a BPDer in intimacy to show your love, you inevitably will make her feel like she is vanishing into thin air, becoming hopelessly merged into your strong personality. This is why a BPDer will create fights -- over absolutely nothing at all -- to push you away so she gets breathing room. And this is why the very WORST fights tend to occur immediately after the very BEST of times.

 

This means that trying to "heal" a BPDer by loving her is as counterproductive as trying to heal a burn patient by hugging him. Although BPDers crave intimacy like nearly everyone else, they simply cannot tolerate it for very long. In this regard, they have the same reaction to intimacy as vampires do to sunlight: they crave to see a sunrise but fear it will destroy them when they do.

 

Consequently, the best way I can answer your question -- i.e., whether she would less satisfied with a less loving man -- is to observe that BPDers typically have long-lasting relationships with two groups of people. One is the caregivers like us, who will tolerate the abuse for years because we're mistakenly convinced that -- when we figure out what WE are doing wrong -- we will be able to restore her to that wonderful woman we saw at the beginning.

 

The other group -- which BPDers seem to be just as content with -- are the narcissists. Although narcissists are not truly loving like the caregivers, they do offer the virtue of periodically showing great attention and periodically withdrawing in anger. In this way, the narcissist gives a BPDer a repeating series of mini-vacations away from intimacy. Like the BPDers, narcissists need frequent breaks from intimacy.

 

I actually had trouble going to sleep last night thinking about this stuff. I really just can't help it. How do I move on?

Lebowski, you already started moving on when you sought advice and commiseration here on the LoveShack forum. The frustration you now feel with the moving on process is perfectly normal. It likely arises from the struggle in your mind between your "intuitive child" and "logical adult." Because I had been in a 15 year relationship, it took me at least a year to bring my child's feelings into close alignment with my adult's understanding.

 

After just two weeks of intense reading on the Internet, I had a pretty good understanding of what I needed to do to get out of the toxic relationship and why I needed to do it. Yet, because my child was over a year behind my adult, the child sabotaged my every effort to break away.

 

It hindered me with nagging doubts, terrible guilt, and a strong feeling of obligation. It kept telling me that the theory floating around in the adult part of my mind was an insufficient basis on which to wholly abandon a loved one. Even after I had left her, I still refused to go No Contact for eight more months, at which point I finally realized she is incapable of ever being my friend.

 

It seems that -- for all human beings -- the inner child makes at least 90% of the important decisions. I was 50 years old before I understood that simple notion. And it took me 12 years to do it.

 

What happened was that, for 12 years, I took my bipolar foster son to a weekly family group meeting with the psychologist who was treating him. Whenever the psych challenged me on something, I always had an elaborate well-thought-out explanation for doing whatever I had chosen to do. Never mind that what I had chosen was not working with my foster son and never mind that I kept repeating the same pattern year after year.

 

The psych was always greatly amused by my explanations. He would laugh and point out, in his kindly fashion, that my elaborate rationalizations could not disguise the fact that my inner child -- not my adult -- was calling all the shots, making nearly all the decisions. In any contest between the adult and child, he claimed, the child would almost always win. But I just could not swallow that concept.

 

Yet, after 12 years of his gentle rebukes, it dawned on me one night -- right as I was about to drift asleep -- why he had to be right. My inner child, I suddenly realized, is the sole judge of what is fun and what is not fun. That decision is all powerful. The adult part of my mind will nearly always conclude that it makes no sense -- indeed, would be preposterous -- to do something, go somewhere, or date someone I do not enjoy. My adult logic thus nearly always has to end up in the lap of my inner child.

 

This is why learning about my exW's problem (BPD) and my problem (excessive caregiving) is the easy part. What is difficult is internalizing that understanding, i.e., transforming knowledge into wisdom, which requires that my feelings catch up with my intellectual thoughts.

 

Simply stated, I must persuade my child that my adult views of my ex's illness and my own issues are correct. Had I failed in that effort, I would remain stuck in a destructive pattern, repeating my past mistakes over and over, because my child will be calling nearly all the shots.

[lebowski99]

I apologize for such a delayed response; I've been extremely busy since Friday.

 

You have been a tremendous help for me understanding the various aspects that are at play with someone with BPD. It really helps me see things for what they are.

 

The only dilemma I currently face, is how do I absolve any feelings for her? Whether it be feelings of hate, lingering love, or anything? I just want to be indifferent. Why do I still become hurt by the thought of her giving herself away so easily? Also, although I'm reluctant to admit, I think I'm also prevented from moving on to a certain extent by the fact that it seems like she could have moved on so easily from our relationship and become so callous. Especially considering how hard I tried to make things work. She proclaimed to be so absolutely enamored and so in love with me at one time, and now it seems she gets pleasure from seeing me hurt... How can I stop caring? I would give anything to stop any thoughts of her

[SincereOnlineGuy]

She's 20...She had a very tumultuous child hood in which she endured sexual abuse by an older cousin, and her parents were never around...both of her parents were in prison...the same girl I saw so much beauty in (inside and out)...how can she just give herself away so easily and degrade herself? And I share a beautiful daughter with this person.

 

I don't mean to sound irrational right now, I can't help how I feel.

 

 

 

This could be the epitome of irrational... when you write/know all of that, and are still surprised in the least that this person is a stripper.

 

 

There used to be a certain talk show host who would say:

 

"Thank heaven that women can become prostitutes and strippers... (because the only path/outlet for men who were once abused is to continue the abuse cycle)"

 

 

All the stuff that you wanted her to be, and that you wish she was, has no place in your present thinking.

 

The time to reason through whether or not you wanted a child shared with this person was back when you were learning all of the other information which pointed directly TO the place where she is today.

 

 

She is who she is, and you are already here, so now you deal with the scenario from this point forward.

 

 

At present, she has a job where she can earn enough money on the weekend to maybe care all week for the child you share. IF you limit your worries and concerns to seeing to it that the child is not abused in any way, and is as well-provided-for as the two of you can muster, then you will have been successful.

 

 

It is not lost on us that this now-stripper selected you to (get close enough to create a child)... and if her selection process is flawed enough so that (we as a society) need to be concerned with the now-stripper bringing an abusive partner into your daughter's life in the future, well, then probably youuuuuuuuuuu have greater concerns on which to focus than the mother of your child being a stripper.

[lollipopspot]

And as far as getting custody of my daughter, I'm not sure what I can do. I'm always working between going to class and doing class work. It would be nearly impossible for me to have her during the week because I wouldn't have time for her.

 

Then you need to lighten your load and take fewer classes. Your classes are a moment in time. Whereas these first years set the entire stage for your daughter's life, emotionally. You may or may not be able to get her full time, but you should have her 50% of the time.

[Chi townD]

 

And as far as getting custody of my daughter, I'm not sure what I can do. I'm always working between going to class and doing class work. It would be nearly impossible for me to have her during the week because I wouldn't have time for her. When I was gone on my internship, my mom had my daughter nearly the entire time I was gone. But she said it was very difficult because she has so many other things to do and I can't count on her to really help me raise my daughter. Also, I'm not sure how to prove the circumstances that my ex is exposing my daughter to. But when I was gone, my mom would talk about how my ex had tried to hide from her a couple times so my mom couldn't take my daughter to her, and she would come out looking like a complete mess and like she was messed up on something. And I know that the mother of my child will leave my daughter with anyone when she doesn't feel like watching her, but again, I don't know how to prove there's any type of abuse.

 

 

 

Dude, there are three types of strippers that I've seen. 1. young girls trying to pay for college and 2. Girl trying to make ends meet. 3. Fast and easy money with a lot of partying, drugs and drinking. Which one do you think she's siding on?

 

 

You said yourself you are one semester away from graduating. You'll have a degree and get a good paying job. Keep an eye out on your Ex's behavior. The moment that it even LOOKS like she's neglecting or putting your daughter in a dangerous spot, you need to be a dad and step up to protect your kid. Period.

[Downtown]

How do I absolve any feelings for her? Whether it be feelings of hate, lingering love, or anything? I just want to be indifferent.

As I noted above, Lebowski, learning about BPD behaviors is the easy part. What is hard is waiting for your emotions (i.e., the inner child) to catch up with your intellectual thoughts (i.e., your inner adult). That process likely will take many months, if not a year. What helped me A LITTLE was talking about it to friends. This helped me connect my new thoughts to my feelings, bringing them in closer alignment. That helped only a little because my friends' eyes quickly glazed over when I would bring it up again.

 

What helped me a lot more, then, was writing about it to anyone who would write back. I therefore found it comforting to communicate here on the LoveShack forum. I believe it facilitated my recovery process. I also found it helpful to see a psychologist, for 6 or 7 sessions, to obtain professional guidance.

[xxoo]

Becoming a fiercely protective and involved parent would destroy a lot of your interest in the mother herself, outside how her choices affect your daughter. Her mother is a potential obstacle to her well being. That's how you should regard her. Put that way, who cares about the dating life of the woman who is an obstacle to your child's well being? It's insignificant. Meaningless BS that takes focus away from the child at risk.

 

Every child needs someone to put her first. Can you do that?

[lebowski99]

Thank you to all who have responded. I agree that my daughter is absolutely the #1 priority. It doesn't make sense for me to have any concern about my ex's personal life outside of how it affects my daughter. As mentioned, though, I don't intentionally have any lingering feelings for her. I know the writing was on the wall for our current circumstances, it's just that I have been involved with A LOT of girls since high school on, and none have ever impressed me as she had. It compounded my amazement in her because I couldn't believe she had developed such phenomenal traits IN SPITE of her rough upbringing.

 

But I realize it was a mirage. It was probably a great result of mirroring, in combination with a lot of other factors. She didn't easily make herself accessible for sex (which I thought translated for self respect). The majority of girls I've been with have wanted sex almost immediately. She also just seemed to have many characteristics that really meshed well with me. She seemed to be analytical and possessed great awareness. On many occasions she had talked about how much disdain she had for her mom, her couple of friends, and her closest sister. All of whom are terrible influences on her and engage in negative behavior. During our time together, she had pretty much alienated herself from everyone aside from me; ultimately putting even more pressure on me. But she was able to recognize and express how dysfunctional they are and I thought that translated to her having a deep rooted understanding for wanting to always aspire to be better. I thought since she was able to recognize how their negative/habitual behaviors will always cause strife in their life, she would do everything possible to avoid following in their foot steps.

 

But I'm also aware of how deeply rooted traits are embedded in people from childhood, so it was understandable to me whenever her negative traits started to present themselves. I just thought since she already had such a basic understanding of things that most people who come from her circumstances don't posses, that she would be able to amend and alter some of the negative traits she had developed. It really did seem like she had the strength and mental ability to do so... So I just thought with effective communication and love, we could circumvent issues derived from being brought up by neglectful and toxic parents...

 

However, once we broke up, she completely began to follow in her moms foot steps. Her parents both were released from prison shortly before things ended, and now she is like her side kick. Although her mom only uses her daughter as a friend to engage in questionable activities whenever it's most beneficial for her. She's a terrible mom. I just don't get how my ex could so easily pin point the error of her moms ways, then do exactly as she does. Her sister is a complete slut to, and she spoke with great disdain about some of the things she had done before, but yet she's now doing the same things as her as well... And she has always had some strange, unbreakable allegiance to her dad, but he obviously hasn't been very involved in her life. He's always been more concerned about what's going on in his own life. And when he found out about her older cousin (about 10 yrs older) molesting her for yrs, he got out of prison and apparently was smoking weed with the said cousin and my ex at a family reunion. I couldn't believe it! And whenever the news broke that this cousin had molested her--it came out after her sister told the cousin's girlfriend because he had been molesting her son--the family attacked my ex while she was pregnant. They said she was a liar and did everything they could to sweep it under the rug. And now she's on good terms with all of them. It's inconceivable to me how that is even possible...

 

But it's just so crazy to me how someone could possess these amazing qualities I've always looked for, then completely do a 360. I know the mirroring affect would come into play here, but I'm not sure how you could emulate such qualities with such thoroughness if you didn't really posses these traits to some degree. Some things just can't be faked. Some of the conversations we had required an understanding of things that just can't be forged.

 

And I was her voice of reason, her place of solace from all of the chaos. I know without doubt I offered her something that is extremely hard to replace, and I know deeply within her she truly desires what I offered her. But her issues always trump and smother the great qualities that are underlying. I feel like I used to look into her eyes and just see straight into her soul. Even when she would be doing destructive things, although I would be upset, I would still just want to hold her and assure her that she is lovable. Because I know that everything she does is only a result of pain that she has endured growing up, and she unconsciously developed these bad traits beyond her control. It's just a sad situation but obviously one I have to accept and move past...

 

 

But yes, I'm fulling willing to do whatever is necessary to protect my daughter and provide her with the structure and unconditional love that is necessary for a healthy upbringing. I'm huge into child development, and I do understand the profound, life long affects derived from upbringing. I will eventually get full custody, and if I have reason to believe that it's an immediate need, then that's what I will do. I'll just have to see how things progress and very closely monitor my daughters behavior and health. I love her beyond measure and there's been countless times where my ex wanted to get rid of my daughter after our break up and I would be there in an instant. I didn't care what my ex was trying to do, just that my daughter was at a home where she was wanted. This is obviously going to be tough, but talking through things on here helps me to have a better perspective.

[Downtown]

It compounded my amazement in her because I couldn't believe she had developed such phenomenal traits IN SPITE of her rough upbringing.

Likewise, Lebowski, I have a great admiration for the accomplishments of most BPDers I've met in my personal life. What impresses me in other people is not how high they are on the ladder but, rather, how far they've managed to climb. My BPDer exW, for example, was sexually abused for years by her own father but still managed to survive. She is a remarkable woman -- having such a warm and friendly personality that complete strangers immediately feel a fondness for her.

 

But she was able to recognize and express how dysfunctional they are and I thought that translated to her having a deep rooted understanding for wanting to always aspire to be better.

Like your Ex, many BPDers are extremely intelligent and possess great affective empathy, i.e., the ability to feel what other people are feeling. Yet, the human condition is that, whenever we experience intense feelings, our conscious minds hand control over to emotional, intuitive, childlike part of ourselves (i.e., the "inner child"). Because BPDers cannot regulate their emotions, they are hampered far more frequently by these intense feelings.

 

This means, of course, that their highly developed logic and empathy skills go out the window as the "inner child" takes control. The result is that, whenever you try to have a calm reasonable discussion with a BPDer on any sensitive issue, you have only ten seconds -- the time it takes for her intense feelings to be triggered -- before you find yourself dealing with the four-year-old-child part of her mind. This is why BPD is said to be a "thought distortion," i.e., the intense feeling distorts the BPDer's perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations.

 

I just thought since she already had such a basic understanding of things that most people who come from her circumstances don't posses, that she would be able to amend and alter some of the negative traits she had developed.

Emotionally unstable people lack an integrated, cohesive sense of who they are. They therefore are without a rudder, without anything to ground them -- other than the partner they have at the moment. This means they not only lack a stable sense of direction but also lack self awareness.

 

This may be hard to believe when the person often exhibits a great understanding of other peoples' motivation. Yet, despite all that insight, a BPDer has so much self loathing and shame that it is simply too painful for her to be very self aware. Moreover, as noted above, that insight goes out the window when feelings are intense because the BPDer's perception -- no matter how skilled -- is distorted.

 

They said she was a liar and did everything they could to sweep it under the rug. And now she's on good terms with all of them. It's inconceivable to me how that is even possible.

It's possible in the same way that a whole nation of mostly good people can systematically kill off all the Jewish members of their own citizenship. It's possible in the same way that a parent is able to permanently disown his own adult child because she is gay or she married outside the family religion.

 

The human condition is that our brains are hard wired to shift into black-white thinking whenever we are under great stress or are suddenly startled. This means that, whenever our feelings are very intense, we all immediately find ourselves on a slippery slope to relying fully on B-W thinking -- wherein we categorize other people as "all good" or "all bad," as "with us" or "against us," and as "saved" or "damned to ever lasting hell." Because there is no grey area in this narrow, childish way of thinking, the smallest infraction or comment is all it takes for us to recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other. This is why B-W thinking can produce such disastrous results when applied to our interpersonal relationships.

 

My exW, for example, dearly loves her two sisters. She nonetheless will periodically split one of them black and refuse to talk to her for 6 months or a year. Then some minor thing happens and they are back to being thick as thieves. Because all three of them are that way (i.e., BPDer) to a large extent, most of the time one of the sisters is being ignored by the other two. Then, for a few glorious months, the three of them will be back to being thick as thieves.

 

I'm not sure how you could emulate such qualities with such thoroughness if you didn't really posses these traits to some degree. Some things just can't be faked. Some of the conversations we had required an understanding of things that just can't be forged.

As I noted above, I suspect that your Ex was NOT faking her understanding. Similarly, my exW had a great ability to understand other people and great empathy toward them -- as long as those people did not trigger her fears (which would cause her to split them black).

 

Indeed, there were even a few times -- perhaps 4 or 5 times in 15 years -- where she exhibited great self awareness of her own issues. These brief periods lasted only a day at most. These periods of self-awareness in BPDers are called "moments of clarity." Sadly, despite their clarity, these moments of insight had absolutely no lasting effects.

 

As I mentioned earlier, a BPDer's subconscious works 24/7 to prevent her from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes that relying on the primitive ego defenses that are available to young children. The defense that is relied on most heavily is projection (because it works and, being hidden from the conscious mind, is entirely guilt free). This, at least, is my understanding, Lebowski.

 

Even when she would be doing destructive things, although I would be upset, I would still just want to hold her and assure her that she is lovable.

Yes, I know what you're talking about. I felt that way so many times for 15 years. Being empathetic caregivers, we are able to see the hurt little child in the angry adult. It is so hard to walk away from a sick, hurt child.

[BlueIris]

Try to get your family’s assistance with money so that you have more time with your child. Perhaps appeal to them as helping out with their grandchild.

 

One possible advantage to her stripping might be that she can make more money in less time so that she can spend more time parenting. When I was in college, a few of the medical students started stripping because they could make so much more money Friday and Saturday nights than they could working 20 or 30 hours in a lab or library. Makes sense, right? Possibly if you took more parenting time in a cooperative, team-like way, she might not feel a time and financial pressure and might seek other routes for building a future. It's worth a try. Good luck.

Edited October 15, 2015 by BlueIris