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Is he a commitment phobe/are these signs of commitment phobia?


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I'm currently going through some emotional hurt following the breakdown of a "relationship" with a guy who seemed to adore me, initially but whose actions quite never matched his words. It's been an extremely confusing time for me because he went from being sweet and nice ( I thought we were progressing) to doing a 360 on me. Admittedly there were signs, but he kept saying stuff like "I haven't done this in ages ie wooing a woman, I'm actually making a lot of effort". Basically negotiating my expectations downwards on the basis that I was the first person he had taken seriously in ages and as a result, should be more understanding of his shortcomings because "he hadn't even liked anyone besides me and his ex in five years". Based on the points below, would you classify him as a commitment phobe/ someone with general commitment issues?

 

 

1) his longest relationships lasted 6months.

 

2) when he slowed things down with me, told me he wasn't ready for the emotional commitment and attachment aspect or prepared to explore this now. "I'm not ready". This was a MAJOR departure from his attitude when we met. He appeared very serious, told his friends "I was the one". He spoke about the future with me, told me that after having met me, he was now desperate for a wife. Said so many endearing and lovely things- seemed like a fair take beginning to a love story.

 

3) In past two years, has avoided relationships and engaged in a string of casual affairs typically lasting about a month. He said he's had sex with less than 100 women ( estimate). He declined to give a specific number-I didn't prove him btw, he was the one who raised the subject.

 

4) He's spoken about getting terrified/ panicky when the prospect/ reality of commitment sets in.

 

5) says he likes to be in "control" of his emotions and also when he's in relationships. Doesn't like being vulnerable because "women take advantage of men who love them very much". Mentioned this theory about it being better for a woman to love the man more. Didn't understand the logic and I can't even explain it properly.

 

6) expressed a strong distrust in women , ( not all women) but stated that be generally doesn't trust women because most of the women he's been involved with had boyfriends at the time he was messing with them. These women were extremely skilled at lying to their boyfriends/ deceiving their boyfriends and making them believe that they were faithful and committed when the reality was far different.

 

7) has mentioned that people ask him why he has this approach/ mindset and whether he's been hurt but says he can't remember being devastated over a breakup. However admitted that when he was still in university ( about 7 years ago) his then girlfriend broke up with him but reiterated that he wasn't crushed or anything.

 

 

8) said he doesn't necessarily believe in "titles" and launched a passionate argument centered on why people without the title "boyfriend/ girlfriend" are capable of having a quality relationship. Questioned the need to attach titles to relationships and demonstrated a measure of fear or dislike for titles. He said "one can get all the benefits of a relationship and even sustain a better relationship without a title". I agreed with him partially but said "yes that's true but people can also have amazing relationships with titles". Also if it's just a title as you've suggested and it has no bearing on the substance of the relationship, why not simply use the title ?" After all, "it's just a title right?"

 

9) he said he'll know he's ready to marry only when he reaches the point of being financially stable enough to raise 2 children. Admitted that people ask him "what if you meet someone you can marry? Shouldn't that be the decisive factor?" And his response was "nahhh it's not about meeting anyone, that's not going to be the determine factor, I'll know I'm ready to entertain prospect of getting married only when I can afford to raise two children. No negotiations. I agree that financial stability is key but it seems like a pretty rigid requirement or having finances to raise not one kid but two prior to getting married ?

 

10) when we started having issues he said to me "I've told you about my relationships in the past and how long they've lasted .... I haven't even been in a relationship in forever. I'm comfortable the way I am and I don't see the need to change, there is no reason for me to change". "I've told you about my relationships so YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND".

 

11) he has a reputation for being an unserious non committal guy in terms of his interactions/ relationships with women.

 

12) when things were going good, I observed a very weird trend. After sharing tender and intimate moments together he'd create some distance the following day by not contacting me. He's go silent and I'd end up reaching out to him and asking "if anything was wrong ". It was so unusual to me, when we were supposed to be basking in the aftermath/ glow of a lovely time spent together he'd become a bit distant. One time I spoke to him about it and his response was " I guess I haven't been in touch as much - don't read much into it".

 

There are so many other examples but would love your thoughts on what the above points illustrate in terms of his attitude to commitment. I'm focused on the moving on process but I'm a very analytical person and I'm trying to get some internal closure. It's really mind boggling because despite the my account of events, I actually saw a very tender side to him. Are commitment phobes capable of showing care and emotions ?

 

Thanks so much for reading.

Edited by Sunshine2016
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I wouldn't read too much into this and try to divert your mind onto other things if you feel yourself start to think about this. Maybe make a "what to do in an emergency list" meaning, if you start thinking about it and falling back into the feelings of loneliness and heart break, you have a list of things you need to do. like, clean your bathroom or go work out. Of course anyone is able to show care but at the end of the day, you guys broke up ): It's not about what could have been, what should have been, it is what it is and the only fact is that that you guys broke up. I like this quote a lot

 

"God grant me the serenity

to accept the things I cannot change;

courage to change the things I can;

and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;

Enjoying one moment at a time;

Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;"

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I'm currently going through some emotional hurt following the breakdown of a "relationship" with a guy who seemed to adore me, initially but whose actions quite never matched his words.

Hi sunshine, I am going to depart here from that horrible term commitment phobe. I do not think all your points have to do with it, like point nine. To me he sounds dismissive-avoidant. These people have a positive self-image and a negative image of others. They unfortunately expect to be disappointed by others: it stems from childhood. an accessible article is: Type: Dismissive-Avoidant | Jeb Kinnison I can recommend you books if you want.

 

As you were paired up with him it is recommendable to look also at your personal attachment-style.

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Thanks so much for your comments. I'm grateful for them.

 

 

I'm going to have a look at the material you've posted, I don't know much about personality types but sounds very enlightening. I'll have a read and get back to you re: recommended books.

 

 

I'm definitely trying not to spend too much time analysing this but it's difficult not to. I've met a fair number of guys in my lifetime but I've ne'er met anyone who appeared so terrified or averse to the idea of commitment, as demonstrated not just by our relationship but his track record/ dating history with women. He seems to prefer spending time with his guy friends and he appears not to want to establish a serious emotional bond or connection with anyone. He really raised my expectations with all the things he said at the start of the relationship. He made me believe in him. It really hurts. I've never been so puzzled in my entire life. I feel like he genuinely liked me... was I imagining things? The way he looked at me and held me....he loved the warmth and comfort, but now he's so cold and distant. I've gone NC though.

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Based on the points below, would you classify him as a commitment phobe/ someone with general commitment issues?

 

Yes he appears to have commitment issues from what you posted, but no that doesn't mean that he isn't capable of having a lasting relationship. With guys like that you need to go slow and be patient. The tendency is to push forward and fill the void when he pulls back- that pressures him and he pulls back even further, which leads to the person needing the connection to push harder, and the downward cycle continues until the fated "I can't do this now" is spoken by the commitment avoider.

 

he went from being sweet and nice ( I thought we were progressing) to doing a 360 on me.

 

I think you mean a 180. If he did a 360 he'd be right back to where he was when you were progressing.

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It's tempting to want to label people, but most people don't fit neatly into labels. I think you just need to know that whatever he is, it's not compatible with what you want in a relationship. Have you ever heard the saying, "Water seeks its own level?" Sometimes, people mirror to us what we truly are. I've often read that people who get involved with a person that won't commit also has commitment issues themselves.

 

Based on what you wrote, he might have some commitment issues. He might just have commitment issues with you. Who really knows? It's more than likely that he simply hasn't found someone compatible. I'd take the advice offered and read up on attachment styles.

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It's tempting to want to label people, but most people don't fit neatly into labels. I think you just need to know that whatever he is, it's not compatible with what you want in a relationship. Have you ever heard the saying, "Water seeks its own level?" Sometimes, people mirror to us what we truly are. I've often read that people who get involved with a person that won't commit also has commitment issues themselves.

 

Based on what you wrote, he might have some commitment issues. He might just have commitment issues with you. Who really knows? It's more than likely that he simply hasn't found someone compatible. I'd take the advice offered and read up on attachment styles.

 

Thanks for reading BCc and for your response. I've heard of the saying but find it difficult to relate to it because I'm not aware of any commitment issues I might have, then again it might be a subconscious thing therefore something I'm not cognisant of...

 

I know now that regardless of any analysis or conclusions I come to, our goals were not compatible.

 

Here's the thing though and something I grapple with, isn't it a "cop out" or a form of denial almost when people with commitment issues downplay their inability to commit and chuck it up to simply never having met the right person? Many atimes this idea of a "right person" being an idealistic, unattainable mental construction. So instead of confronting whatever issues they have with commitment, they ignore or deny these issues and blame it on anything but themselves. I ask because this guy in particular has a particularly dodgy reputation in terms of his history with women. His most serious relationship lasted 6 months and he apparently devastated his ex who is still hung up on him despite him having moved on. What I'm trying to essentially establish or determine here is whether there are some people who have trouble committing to anyone, not just a specific person. I've also begun to question myself : is there something wrong with me? I was very well behaved and really tried to apply lessons learned from past relationships. In a way id say I suppressed some natural and expected reactions in a bid to avoid being dramatic. Yet it still WANs enough. Is this because he simply doesn't do commitment or cos I wasn't good enough ?

 

 

I have to accept some responsibility though, I was warned not to get involved with him by people who know him very well. He's generally never taken women too seriously. I would like to believe that I was special to him ( he made me feel that way- like I was the first person he was committing to in ages) but in the grand scheme of things guess it really doesn't matter. Hopefully some day I'll get to understand what happened.

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Thanks so much for your comments. I'm grateful for them.

 

 

I'm going to have a look at the material you've posted, I don't know much about personality types but sounds very enlightening. I'll have a read and get back to you re: recommended books.

 

 

I'm definitely trying not to spend too much time analysing this but it's difficult not to. I've met a fair number of guys in my lifetime but I've ne'er met anyone who appeared so terrified or averse to the idea of commitment, as demonstrated not just by our relationship but his track record/ dating history with women. He seems to prefer spending time with his guy friends and he appears not to want to establish a serious emotional bond or connection with anyone. He really raised my expectations with all the things he said at the start of the relationship. He made me believe in him. It really hurts. I've never been so puzzled in my entire life. I feel like he genuinely liked me... was I imagining things? The way he looked at me and held me....he loved the warmth and comfort, but now he's so cold and distant. I've gone NC though.

Well it is a bit to early for me to say this is why he did such and such, but reading your material I think he really meant what he said in the beginning. It is just that it does not help you in any way, as if I am right what he has shown you is also his way of dealing with intimacy. If you recognize him in the description in that link, I can tell you how this change can happen, as it really makes you wonder about your sanity. I have been there :(

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@ it's pointless, still studying the material. It's pretty interesting so far. Yes he's made me question my sanity. I just can't understand what went wrong. Usually I can pinpoint a serious issue or a serious argument as the source of a crack in a relationship but this time around, nothing really. I tried to be understanding, patient and open minded... At some point I started walking on eggshells. He sounds so cold and so resolute. Saw a picture of him today and I can't believe he's the same guy.

 

@ BC1, only 4 months which makes me feel even more pathetic. He really made me believe in him, bear in mind we didn't have sex ( because i wasn't ready to with him) yet it's really shaken me. I'm beginning to think that I might be mourning the loss of what could have been. The relationship appeared to be progressing and he just threw it all away. So callously and coldly. I will get over it I know but it's really done my head in and expressing my thoughts helps a lot in terms of releasing emotions etc. Now I'm feeling very angry and I prefer anger to self pity.

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Hello Sunshine2016, so sorry for you going through this.. Sometimes it is not lenght of relationships, sometimes it is about emotions and work that are put into relationship. Don't beat yourself mourning for only 4 months relationship. The way he left may ask yourself about your sanity, but sometimes you just can't help to avoid this happening. The hardest is to accept - it wasn't your fault if you tried to work this out but he didn't. Someone said that this kind of relationship end is one of the hardest - you are mourning not only about the way they left but also for everything that didn't happen. Give yourself time. Maybe for you progress will be faster, maybe slower, but step by step it gets better. Best wishes for you! :)

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@ BC1, only 4 months which makes me feel even more pathetic. He really made me believe in him, bear in mind we didn't have sex ( because i wasn't ready to with him) yet it's really shaken me. I'm beginning to think that I might be mourning the loss of what could have been. The relationship appeared to be progressing and he just threw it all away. So callously and coldly. I will get over it I know but it's really done my head in and expressing my thoughts helps a lot in terms of releasing emotions etc. Now I'm feeling very angry and I prefer anger to self pity.

 

Sometimes, it's not the length but the emotional investment you put into the relationship. It will throw you for a loop when someone comes on strong and then suddenly changes. I actually had something similar happen to me about 10 years ago. Met a guy, and he came on strong. He was chasing me, and I was hesitant. I was very pulled in by his image and what he was saying. One day, he simply stopped returning my calls and blocked me. I had no clue why, and I never heard from him again. I had never had anything like that happen to me before, and it really hurt me for several months afterwards. Even though it was a short relationship, and we weren't in love, it just really hurt me that he didn't even have the nerve to end it face to face or at last call me.

 

I know this seems like a big deal right now, but it will likely become a blip on your radar in the coming years. I would not spend a lot of time wondering if he is a commitment phobe. You should spend time investing in yourself. Since you were only with him for 4 months, I don't think I'd say you have commitment issues. For some reason, I was thinking this was a long term relationship.

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@ it's pointless, still studying the material. It's pretty interesting so far. Yes he's made me question my sanity. I just can't understand what went wrong. Usually I can pinpoint a serious issue or a serious argument as the source of a crack in a relationship but this time around, nothing really. I tried to be understanding, patient and open minded... At some point I started walking on eggshells. He sounds so cold and so resolute. Saw a picture of him today and I can't believe he's the same guy.

Well, probably nothing went wrong, except that you came to close for him to bear. Some people feel engulfed when people manage to really come close, as it has the danger that you potentially can hurt them. When people experience these kind of feelings they sometimes force breaks themselves. There are stories on LS about people being left just before the wedding. A break and self-inflicted hurt is controllable, you potentially hurting them is not. With avoidant dismissive people it is mainly on a neurological level concerning attachment figures, so it can be behaviour close friends of them have never seen. In the beginning of a relationship we still manage to be in some sort of fantasy of them void of past hurt, but after a couple of months the real world creeps in. Stan Tatkin writes about this in the book Love and war in intimate relationships on page 93 below (see Google Books). His cold behaviour is also typical. Every step you make forwards makes them do a step backwards.

 

I have read many stories by people who where dazzled. For example this one from a few years ago:

Many people have asked, ‘If it was such a repulsive experience, why didn’t you leave as soon as her avoidant behaviour appeared?’

 

It’s not quite that simple. At the start of the relationship, they’ll build your confidence level up to a height that you’ve never experienced before in your life. After that, you’re hooked, committed, invested, etc. As soon as they know that you’re hooked, many months down the road, that’s when they let their guard down; when it’s too late.

 

When the avoidant behaviour appears, your first instinct is to do what any sane person would do: work on the relationship’s problems, and tend to your partner and their issues.

It only is not always that a conscience process for them as the person above seemed to believe.

Edited by Itspointless
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Yes he's made me question my sanity.

 

I think this is important. The ex that brought me here made me question my sanity, which is probably how I found my way to LS. He broke up with me the day before we were supposed to start marriage counseling at the church where we were going to get married. He made a big deal about getting this appointment to do the marriage counseling session, so we could get married that summer. He initiated the entire thing.

 

When I say I was shocked, I mean it. I didn't even process that we had actually broken up for a month or so. The weekend before he broke up with me, we were planning a family trip with our parents and his son. We had booked a hotel already. He was telling me how I was the best thing that had happened to him in years. The entire thing really threw me for a loop.

 

So I understand where you are coming from, and a lot of people here do too. This kind of stuff happens. Try not to take it personally. I took it personally for a long time, and I really had to change the way I thought to get through it.

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I don't think there is such a thing as a commitmentphobe. I think they are mythical creatures that women have made up to explain men fading away.

 

I think men who shun commitment fall into 3 General categories -

 

- They don't want to. (The fact he's been with 100 women may explain why)

 

- they're not really into that particular woman enough to make that leap. ( countless men date one woman for years keeping them at arms length because they supposedly have commitment issues, then are married to someone else in a matter of months. I was one of these myself..)

 

- They have some kind of actual mental or personality disorder. This dude seems to be one of these.

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I don't think there is such a thing as a commitmentphobe. I think they are mythical creatures that women have made up to explain men fading away.

 

I think men who shun commitment fall into 3 General categories -

 

- They don't want to. (The fact he's been with 100 women may explain why)

 

- they're not really into that particular woman enough to make that leap. ( countless men date one woman for years keeping them at arms length because they supposedly have commitment issues, then are married to someone else in a matter of months. I was one of these myself..)

 

- They have some kind of actual mental or personality disorder. This dude seems to be one of these.

 

I've known men like this and one is my cousin. He dated so many women and none longer than 6 months. He said he would never marry but met his now wife and was begging her, I mean begging her to marry him within 8 months of dating. They have been married with kids going on 20 years now.

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Yes he appears to have commitment issues from what you posted, but no that doesn't mean that he isn't capable of having a lasting relationship. With guys like that you need to go slow and be patient. The tendency is to push forward and fill the void when he pulls back- that pressures him and he pulls back even further, which leads to the person needing the connection to push harder, and the downward cycle continues until the fated "I can't do this now" is spoken by the commitment avoider.

 

 

 

I think you mean a 180. If he did a 360 he'd be right back to where he was when you were progressing.

 

Thanks Tobin for your response and for reading. I don't know how I managed to miss this yesterday. I understand and agree with you, and sincerely tried to be patient and not too demanding etc. Yes I admit initially, I reacted in the way you've described above when I felt him withdrawing which I thought was the natural reaction. But I really tried to take things slow and not be too pushy etc. He spoke about my pace being different than his which begs the question- how fast was I going? I didn't think I was going too fast, for example I didn't demand daily phone calls but wanted him to stay in touch if not daily then every other day by sending a what's app message here and there etc. I desired simple things like being able to chat with him about how my day at work went and develop a friendship- companionship and intimacy in a nutshell. I wasn't asking to spend every day or every other day with him. I tried to maintain a sense of independence and to not make him my world but naturally I wanted to develop intimacy from him. I didn't push for labels , never asked "where's this going ?" . I complained sometimes when I felt he wasn't giving me much attention but that was about it really, other than that I tried to just go with the flow.

 

In fact, this time around when I perceived the change in his behavior, instead of complaining, I decided to adopt a different strategy. I basically chose not to react to his distance by not exhibiting any anger or upset or discontentment . Instead I opted to raise fun, casual conversations in order to avoid putting pressure on him or inundating him with conversations about "why he was acting up " etc but it didn't work, he kept doing hurtful things and basically stopped making any effort. Turns out he was simply trying to tell me through his actions that he wasn't ready for the emotional aspect of a relationship and started referring to his history almost as if to say "you were informed about my failed relationships and my attitudes towards commitment and how difficult it is for me " forgetting that he had assured me that i was different from the others. Silly me believing that. He also said it wasn't about lack of feelings for me because in as much I didn't believe it, he likes me a lot and cares about me a lot. He raised his voice and said "this is not about you , I know it might sound paradoxical cos you're the one in the situation but it really isn't about you!!".

 

Also I've begun to question what amounts to "reasonable needs" in the context of a fledging relationship. I feel like I need to have a basis of comparison- is daily communication ( in some form)? What really should be the minimum expectations in a relationship?

Edited by Sunshine2016
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Hello Sunshine2016, so sorry for you going through this.. Sometimes it is not lenght of relationships, sometimes it is about emotions and work that are put into relationship. Don't beat yourself mourning for only 4 months relationship. The way he left may ask yourself about your sanity, but sometimes you just can't help to avoid this happening. The hardest is to accept - it wasn't your fault if you tried to work this out but he didn't. Someone said that this kind of relationship end is one of the hardest - you are mourning not only about the way they left but also for everything that didn't happen. Give yourself time. Maybe for you progress will be faster, maybe slower, but step by step it gets better. Best wishes for you! :)

 

Thanks for reading Madde , I appreciate your response. I obsess about what I could have done differently but i guess it really was out of my control. If you read my response to Tobin you will see all the efforts I made to "get it right". Turns out it wasn't sufficient. I woke up thinking about the fun things we could have done but had to comfort myself with the thought that " he chose to not give us the opportunity to do these things". I only have control over my actions. I'll take it a day at a time.

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I think this is important. The ex that brought me here made me question my sanity, which is probably how I found my way to LS. He broke up with me the day before we were supposed to start marriage counseling at the church where we were going to get married. He made a big deal about getting this appointment to do the marriage counseling session, so we could get married that summer. He initiated the entire thing.

 

When I say I was shocked, I mean it. I didn't even process that we had actually broken up for a month or so. The weekend before he broke up with me, we were planning a family trip with our parents and his son. We had booked a hotel already. He was telling me how I was the best thing that had happened to him in years. The entire thing really threw me for a loop.

 

So I understand where you are coming from, and a lot of people here do too. This kind of stuff happens. Try not to take it personally. I took it personally for a long time, and I really had to change the way I thought to get through it.

 

Wow, that must have been a devastating experience. Must have required remarkable strength to get through it. I'm going to read the thread to gain some strength from your story. How did you get closure and did he ever explain why he did what he did?

 

 

I'm encouraging myself with the thought that I won't always feel this way, not for much longer hopefully. Right now my goal is to get through a month of NC first. I also tell myself that it's probably best that I got to see this other side to him at the four month make rather than say after a year.

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I don't think there is such a thing as a commitmentphobe. I think they are mythical creatures that women have made up to explain men fading away.

 

I think men who shun commitment fall into 3 General categories -

 

- They don't want to. (The fact he's been with 100 women may explain why)

 

- they're not really into that particular woman enough to make that leap. ( countless men date one woman for years keeping them at arms length because they supposedly have commitment issues, then are married to someone else in a matter of months. I was one of these myself..)

 

- They have some kind of actual mental or personality disorder. This dude seems to be one of these.

 

 

Hi, thanks for reading and for your response. Much appreciated. Have you read the book "Men who can't love" authored by Steven Carter? It basically discusses this subject in great detail and he's the guy who actually coined the phrase "commitment phobe". I haven't read the book yet but I read that he basically printed excerpts of interviews with commitment phobes who describe their challenges with establishing true intimacy and commitment. Some of them actually have the physical symptoms that typically accompany phobias including panic attacks. I don't really know what to make of it.

 

The subject of this thread hasn't had any look term relationships, his longest lasted 6 months. He also said he doesn't feel like he has ever loved anyone before including his ex, whom he bad his longest relationship of 6 months with ( followed by a casual and extremely damaging friends-with-benefits affair). When we met he wooed me with so many fantasies and assured me I was different. He seemed to really want to give commitment a shot but at the same time he warned me indirectly and ahead of time about his peculiar attributes. I recall a conversation where he said to me "I might not call for a while but it doesn't mean I'm not thinking about you-That's just the way I am. You have to try to figure out that nothing is wrong and I'm just not used to all those relationship dynamics" and I was like "wow, that's going to require so much guess work".

He actually mentioned that he had "forgotten how to do take women on dates because I was the first person he had done this with in forever". At the time, he made it seem like he was really trying to be a good partner ( going against his natural impulses and dispositions towards flings). It felt like he was challenging himself to be committed to me not just because he wanted to be but also because he felt there was something special and different about me ( he used to tell me how much of a "good girl " I am in terms of my values and beliefs and how much he really appreciated that about me."). He used to talk about how much he respected me and how different I was from a lot of materialistic women. He seemed to value me not just for my looks ( he found me extremely attractive and said I was his ideal type physically but also strongly appreciated my attributes and traits and seemed to value me as a person. I didn't feel like I was a piece of ass to him). He wanted us to have sex but was ready to wait for me. But then, one day he totally changed, became cold and withdrawn and that was it. "I'm not ready for the emotional aspect ". "It's not about my feelings for you because I like you and care about you". " it is not about you, you need to believe everything i tell you- this is not about you!!". " I don't want to be with anybody right now- I'm comfortable the way I am. You know I haven't had a relationship in ages and you know how long those relationships ended. I don't need to change right now". Told me that the difference between me and the other girls is that with them it was all about sex, but with me, it was about more than just sex etc.

 

 

Heartbreaking but I'll be fine. I'm also going to stop analysing and obsessing about the events that led u

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Well, probably nothing went wrong, except that you came to close for him to bear. Some people feel engulfed when people manage to really come close, as it has the danger that you potentially can hurt them. When people experience these kind of feelings they sometimes force breaks themselves. There are stories on LS about people being left just before the wedding. A break and self-inflicted hurt is controllable, you potentially hurting them is not. With avoidant dismissive people it is mainly on a neurological level concerning attachment figures, so it can be behaviour close friends of them have never seen. In the beginning of a relationship we still manage to be in some sort of fantasy of them void of past hurt, but after a couple of months the real world creeps in. Stan Tatkin writes about this in the book Love and war in intimate relationships on page 93 below (see Google Books). His cold behaviour is also typical. Every step you make forwards makes them do a step backwards.

 

I have read many stories by people who where dazzled. For example this one from a few years ago:

 

It only is not always that a conscience process for them as the person above seemed to believe.

 

 

Since you posted that link, I've been reading a lot of material on attachment yours. I have learnt a whole lot about myself. It's difficult to fit myself into one box but I think I combine elements of the secure attachment and anxiety attachment styles. I embrace intimacy but I'm also able to give adequate space and independence. But when I feel my relationship is under threat, my anxiety impulses are triggered and I find myself trying to salvage things. At the same time, I'm not excessively needy in that I don't require constant attention and affection. My need to reassurance arises only when I'm being neglected or treated badly and usually when this happens, my fears are confirmed and the guy is checking out emotionally or mentally. I've also learnt that people with secure attachment typed are the healthiest to have relationships with as they seem to almost the perfect blend.

 

Most pertinently, the description of the dismissive avoidant type really sounds like the guy. Initially be appeared to want and desire intimacy with me and I fact, actively sought it but as our ties began to develop, he fled and rejected closeness and intimacy. Strange thing is my ex before him did the same thing. Broke things off when we started progressing. Took me a while to move on and he's since returned- actually he'd dump me and then come back every 2-3 months and dump me again even things started progressing until I had to put an end to the destructive cycle. As recently as yesterday, he was telling me about how much he misses me and wants to see me. Told me I've abandoned him ( really??) but I've moved on from him and I'm no longer interested in him. He's shocked.

 

I wonder how this one I'm dealing with will pan out. They seem attracted to distance- so bizarre.

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I've known men like this and one is my cousin. He dated so many women and none longer than 6 months. He said he would never marry but met his now wife and was begging her, I mean begging her to marry him within 8 months of dating. They have been married with kids going on 20 years now.

 

Very interesting story, heard of a few cases like that. How old was he when he met his wife? I have a relative as well who had 4 kids with 2 women but never married either of them. He had a child with the first woman (my mother actually) and despite her desire to marry, refused to. My mother moved on and met my father and eventually got married to him ( within a year of meeting). This man then started dating another woman who spent about 12 years trying to get him to settle down. He had 3 kids with her but never married her.

 

Well, a few months ago I heard he was about to wed a woman he was dating- he is about 62 years old and his bride is half his age, in her 30's. How do you describe such a scenario? It sounds like he finally conquered his aversion to marriage when it was convenient for him to do so- maybe he got lonely I don't know. Or was it the younger woman who triggered the desire to marry for the first time at the age of 62? She's as young as his son.

 

I do agree that some men haven't committed to a woman yet because they don't want to commit to that specific woman but Ive also observed ( based on anecdotal evidence) that more often than not, when a man demonstrates a consistent pattern of not being able to sustain a good relationship, there might be more to it than simply having not met the right person. But I don't know for sure.

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Since you posted that link, I've been reading a lot of material on attachment yours. I have learnt a whole lot about myself. It's difficult to fit myself into one box but I think I combine elements of the secure attachment and anxiety attachment styles.

Well we basically went through similar things. Only difference with me is that her distancing was triggered by getting ill (again) and stress because of problems her family was experiencing. I was so worried and almost not allowed to talk about it with her: she only wanted to focus on solutions not the problems. It almost sounds healthy but it really wasn't. For it was a repetition of an old trauma, I really lost myself there.

Strange thing is my ex before him did the same thing.

Unfortunately it is not that strange, just as I am not really surprised you recognize anxious elements within yourself. We somehow are attracted to these people, it is called the anxious-avoidant trap. Kind of a shock seeing something described and discussed that is about you and what you were unconscientiously doing. The blaming probably was a defense-mechanism of his. I too gave her a lot of space and time, until she said to me: 'I don't want time.' The moment she really had me she went poooooooffff. When we met she loved to cuddle and was great at communicating, although she was surprised with that. That should have been a red flag, but what did I know ...

 

This following video really convinced me she was dismissive-avoidant:

 

I also want to recommend the book 'Why Can't I Change? How to Conquer Your Self-Destructive Patterns' by Shirley Iimpellizzeri. It is great resource not to only learn about attachment-styles but also to work on ourselves. There are other good books, but I recommend to start there.

 

There used to be a great test at: Attachment Styles and Close Relationships I am not sure, which option is the test I liked, as they have changed some things there.

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Well we basically went through similar things. Only difference with me is that her distancing was triggered by getting ill (again) and stress because of problems her family was experiencing. I was so worried and almost not allowed to talk about it with her: she only wanted to focus on solutions not the problems. It almost sounds healthy but it really wasn't. For it was a repetition of an old trauma, I really lost myself there.

 

Unfortunately it is not that strange, just as I am not really surprised you recognize anxious elements within yourself. We somehow are attracted to these people, it is called the anxious-avoidant trap. Kind of a shock seeing something described and discussed that is about you and what you were unconscientiously doing. The blaming probably was a defense-mechanism of his. I too gave her a lot of space and time, until she said to me: 'I don't want time.' The moment she really had me she went poooooooffff. When we met she loved to cuddle and was great at communicating, although she was surprised with that. That should have been a red flag, but what did I know ...

 

This following video really convinced me she was dismissive-avoidant:

 

I also want to recommend the book 'Why Can't I Change? How to Conquer Your Self-Destructive Patterns' by Shirley Iimpellizzeri. It is great resource not to only learn about attachment-styles but also to work on ourselves. There are other good books, but I recommend to start there.

 

There used to be a great test at: Attachment Styles and Close Relationships I am not sure, which option is the test I liked, as they have changed some things there.

 

My goodness. I just googled "avoidant trap" and my jaw is literally hanging. I can totally relate to everything I've read so far on the avoidant trap. I feel like they authors were describing the dynamics of my relationship and also my "working model " in relationships. It's gotten to the point where I find myself idealizing attributes characterized by avoidants. This has been so enlightening for me and now I'm able to truly understand the reason for some of the rollercoaster relationships which I've been involved in.

 

Thanks for the recommendation, I'm going to order it on Amazon today and look forward to reading it.

 

Just like your situation, initially he appeared even more keen than I was and said a lot of serious and meaningful things. He was desperate to convince me about his "good" intentions towards me. He told me I was the one, told his friends I was the one .... until he had me and our intimacy started to develop which set-off the push-pull dynamics and hot -and-cold trends.

 

In light of the attachment styles which you've highlighted and the factors at play, I can now understand why he would keep on saying things like "i know I don't call as often but that's just the way I am and I know it makes no sense to you but it makes sense to me". Just a few questions please if you don't mind :

 

 

A) why is it that during the early stages of the relationship, we had a mutual desire for intimacy which he fulfilled ( albeit short lived). Can I assume that he was loving and caring because his autonomy wasn't threatened at the time? ( honestly it never really was- he had all the time to do whatever he wanted) but I guess perception is sometimes more powerful than reality.

 

B) applying this information, is there anyway I could have avoided the breakdown of this relationship? I need to know if this whole thing was out of my control or if I could have somehow salvaged the relationship.

 

c) Are these people capable of establishing and sustaining long term fulfilling relationships without psychological intervention?

 

One thing I've learnt also is that they're way too complicated to deal with ... Relationships really shouldn't require so much calculation and analysis. A man who is incapable or finds it extremely difficult to establish intimacy is way too much work.

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Thanks for the recommendation, I'm going to order it on Amazon today and look forward to reading it.

[...]

 

A) why is it that during the early stages of the relationship, we had a mutual desire for intimacy which he fulfilled ( albeit short lived). Can I assume that he was loving and caring because his autonomy wasn't threatened at the time? ( honestly it never really was- he had all the time to do whatever he wanted) but I guess perception is sometimes more powerful than reality.

 

B) applying this information, is there anyway I could have avoided the breakdown of this relationship? I need to know if this whole thing was out of my control or if I could have somehow salvaged the relationship.

 

c) Are these people capable of establishing and sustaining long term fulfilling relationships without psychological intervention?

 

One thing I've learnt also is that they're way too complicated to deal with ... Relationships really shouldn't require so much calculation and analysis. A man who is incapable or finds it extremely difficult to establish intimacy is way too much work.

Good, that book will answer most of your questions with regard to attachment, also about yourself.

 

A. Yes, because it mostly works on a subconscience level. People get avoidant because they most of the time could not trust there caregivers to be there for them when they were very young. So they learned to not lean on others for comfort. But we as humans all crave a bond, even when we are avoidant attached. Its a paradox: they want it, but they do not feel comfortable having it. It also must be said that it is a spectrum, so many people can have it a bit or in certain situations. If you search on Google Books for what I linked to earlier you also will find about that particular point. It took me many months to find an answer to that question!

 

B. It was out of your control. You can try if he is open for reading about this and working on it in therapy. But most probable is that he will be annoyed with it. As avoidant people usually have a positive few of themselves they most of the time blame the other, it also is the easy way for them. Some people do take the hard road though. Severe dismissive-avoidance is almost not treatable though. But the writer of that book, did the work herself, but she already was a psychologist, so I think more open to it.

 

C. Perhaps if their avoidant traits are mild and their partners are willing to put up with it.

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