Why "closure" isn't necessary

[ZiggyZoo]

Hey all! Been on hiatus for a bit, sorting things out. Feel free to check out my other threads for my history, if you don't know it. Still not with my ex, we're doing very LC, which is working out fine. No baby yet either, two more weeks!

 

Anyway, I just wanted to share my experience with the "final relationship talk" which should have given me the closure I needed and all that. First of all, let me say that I firmly believe that closure comes from within. You have to find your own peace with why the relationship ended, what your part was, without relying on your ex to have any of the answers you're looking for. And this experience just completely reinforced that belief.

 

So, we're doing LC, only talking about the baby. He's completely respectful of this, he only spoke about how he would do anything to make it all better with us if he could. And honestly, he's moved his ex out (her baby wasn't his, she lied about it) and has been really great about helping out any way I need him to. So that's going well.

 

I ended up breaking my own rule when I found out his ex's baby wasn't his and just blew up. I mean, I let him have it, I let him know how much he hurt me by sleeping with her, how much he hurt me by not contacting me, everything. He let me vent, and said that he was so sorry, if he could undo it he would, he still loves me very much. So, the words that every dumpee wants to hear, right? Except that it made zero effing difference. I still hurt, his knowing that didn't change anything. I didn't feel a sense of relief from knowing that he knows how he made me feel, nothing.

 

I guess the moral here is that there's no point in having a last talk, or writing a final letter. You're still going to have to heal yourself, nothing your ex can ever say will make it better.

[erklat]

Every dumpee should concentrate on damage control. Final talks and letters say

things are not going your way already.

[hunk]

By no means am I advocating running back to this guy, not after the intentionally malicious things he did to you, but as an alternate opinion - the guy seems to have expressed true remorse. Do you feel like if you really did want him back you would be able to forgive him and see his apologies as genuine? I mean, he messed up. If what he did to you are deal breakers (which I would not blame you for seeing them as in any way, the guy EGGED YOUR HOUSE) then I completely understand. But is there any part of you that wants to be with him? I mean what he did to you was completely messed up so I can totally understand where you're coming from. I'm just curious how you see his apologies/remorse and how they fit into the bigger scheme of your feelings for him. Your situation has been very interesting from the outset I have to admit.

[Meli22]

I agree it does come from within. Although I am technically the dumper in my last rship, it was because he was having doubts about his feelings, things weren't good enough for him, the spark was different. I got fed up (after putting up with his coldness/uncertainties for MONTHS!) and walked away. There was very poor communication because whenever I brought the issue up, I would be shut back down and told we can't talk about it. I beat myself up a little now for putting up with that and not standing up for myself. The thing I have struggled with is that these thoughts for him came from nowhere, we were doing fine with no major issues. Because of this I blamed myself for so long; I wasn't good enough, why couldn't he appreciate me? Did he lose attraction for me? And then I realised.. I did nothing wrong. I gave it my all. He even told me he was afraid that this would happen for him in all relationships, so whether he blamed me or not, that statement alone is enough for me to know its not ME.

 

 

To this day I do wonder what the real reason was that made him decide that something was missing, but he himself doesn't know. And I know him well enough that he can speak about issues and things that bothered him. It could be GIGS, getting bored, or a combination of both. But what I have realised is that, I put up with too much during that rship. I have seen him for what he was really like. A lovely man, but possessive, controlling, slightly manipulative and insecure. I changed myself (bad idea) to accommodate his needs. It was getting worse and I feel I would have been set up for a life of misery if we were to marry. So that is enough closure for me

[DexterLS]

Talking about closure, I messaged my cheating ex-girlfriend of a 6/7 year relationship to tell her I forgave her for her betrayal.

 

Her answer was: "I did not betray you! Take care, bye". At one point she even said "**** off" too.

 

Not the closure I was looking for but at this point, who cares. I know I gave this relationship everything. She doesn't have the integrity to tell me straight up she started liking the other guy. She is now with him and they are happy together.

 

Point is, it feels like **** to keep wondering why every time but I keep reminding myself that the problem is not with me. Sure, when you get dumped for someone else, it's a little harder, but got to live with this!

[Ruby65]

I'm SO glad to see you back and posting -- I've been wondering how you've been!

 

I'm also relieved to hear the ex's baby wasn't his and that he moved her out. You didn't need to have either of those issues clouding your horizon, not with a baby just two weeks away!!

 

I think you're doing wonderfully with your LC. Just take good care of yourself and do what feels best for YOU.

 

[ZiggyZoo]

By no means am I advocating running back to this guy, not after the intentionally malicious things he did to you, but as an alternate opinion - the guy seems to have expressed true remorse. Do you feel like if you really did want him back you would be able to forgive him and see his apologies as genuine? I mean, he messed up. If what he did to you are deal breakers (which I would not blame you for seeing them as in any way, the guy EGGED YOUR HOUSE) then I completely understand. But is there any part of you that wants to be with him? I mean what he did to you was completely messed up so I can totally understand where you're coming from. I'm just curious how you see his apologies/remorse and how they fit into the bigger scheme of your feelings for him. Your situation has been very interesting from the outset I have to admit.

 

Hey hunk, how you doin'?

 

I think you might have me confused with someone else. There was another pregnant lady on here whose ex was a complete a*shole. He got engaged to someone else right awat, and the new fiancee texted pictures of the ring...is that who you're thinking of? My ex broke up with me, I told him I was pregnant, and didn't hear anything from him for months. He slept with HIS ex in the meantime and she said he got her pregnant. That's my story. So, nothing too malicious, just him not checking on my situation. And some butt hurt that he slept with his ex like that.

 

So, as far as his apologies, I do completely believe he's genuine. He's backed up his words with his actions (he said his ex basically just moved in on him, and he was working towards helping her get her own place, which he did) and he's been very respectful of my boundaries as far as LC goes. He's apologized for not contacting me, for hurting me, etc and has been helping out with baby stuff. He's even taken my girls to the park with his daughter, so I could take naps.

 

I've been thinking about it a lot, and I think my pride has a lot to do with my hesitation to get back together. I wonder what I would be telling myself if I moved forward. Would it be a slap to my self-esteem, to allow someone to get away with treating me like that? Or can I look at it as a messed up situation that got out of hand, and he's genuinely remorseful. I know he's had terrible relationships in the past, so I can see how his communication skills weren't developed. I haven't forgiven him necessarily, but I can understand how it all happened, if that makes sense.

 

I still have feelings for him, sure. I guess I'm just seeing what happens. I've accepted that our old relationship is over. I'm not going to rule out anything in the future, but am in no hurry. His actions that have showed me that he is really sorry have gone a long way towards this attitude. So there's your answer? Maybe, maybe not...

[ZiggyZoo]

I agree it does come from within. Although I am technically the dumper in my last rship, it was because he was having doubts about his feelings, things weren't good enough for him, the spark was different. I got fed up (after putting up with his coldness/uncertainties for MONTHS!) and walked away. There was very poor communication because whenever I brought the issue up, I would be shut back down and told we can't talk about it. I beat myself up a little now for putting up with that and not standing up for myself. The thing I have struggled with is that these thoughts for him came from nowhere, we were doing fine with no major issues. Because of this I blamed myself for so long; I wasn't good enough, why couldn't he appreciate me? Did he lose attraction for me? And then I realised.. I did nothing wrong. I gave it my all. He even told me he was afraid that this would happen for him in all relationships, so whether he blamed me or not, that statement alone is enough for me to know its not ME.

 

 

To this day I do wonder what the real reason was that made him decide that something was missing, but he himself doesn't know. And I know him well enough that he can speak about issues and things that bothered him. It could be GIGS, getting bored, or a combination of both. But what I have realised is that, I put up with too much during that rship. I have seen him for what he was really like. A lovely man, but possessive, controlling, slightly manipulative and insecure. I changed myself (bad idea) to accommodate his needs. It was getting worse and I feel I would have been set up for a life of misery if we were to marry. So that is enough closure for me

 

YES! All this! I went through the same sort of thing with my ex-husband. He dumped me, and I almost drove myself crazy with blaming myself. I had an excellent therapist who helped me see that it wasn't all me and it wasn't all him. And how closure is something that I had to find by myself. It is such a good feeling to finally realize that.

[ZiggyZoo]

I'm SO glad to see you back and posting -- I've been wondering how you've been!

 

I'm also relieved to hear the ex's baby wasn't his and that he moved her out. You didn't need to have either of those issues clouding your horizon, not with a baby just two weeks away!!

 

I think you're doing wonderfully with your LC. Just take good care of yourself and do what feels best for YOU.

 

 

Hey, Ruby!

 

Thank you for your kind words and support. There are so many wonderful people on here.

 

Yeah, I'm definitely relieved that the toxic ex is gone. I for sure wasn't going to let my little one be around her, so it's much nicer this way.

 

I've been thinking a lot, like I posted above.. I'm really happy right now with how things are going. NC is so draining, I am happy that I don't have to worry about accidentally seeing a picture of him posted somewhere, or stress running into him. Plus I know that he and his baby will have a relationship, which is what I wanted for both of them. Its just nice to not have to worry about so many things...

[hunk]

Yep, great answer. That's basically what I was wondering - whether it was your pride that was interfering with your feelings for him, because as you said it seems he is genuinely remorseful. I guess as cliche as it is, everybody screws up, it's just how people behave after they screw up and whether they fundamentally try to learn from their screw up and rectify the situation to the best of their abilities that means the most. I'm not sure who I was thinking about then ... I could've sworn it was your situation where this guy was doing some really messed up stuff to intentionally hurt you but obviously it mustn't have been.

 

If I put myself in your position, or rather if a woman had done this type of thing to me but also shown the remorse this guy seems to be showing, i think my process would kind of go this way

- I still love her

- This has affected her, she has communicated this to me and i believe her, and she's showing true remorse which speaks volumes about how she feels about me

- I still love her

- I still love her

- It makes no sense to throw this away given I still love her and she is really trying to make it work

 

However I would be extremely cautious and be taking things extremely slowly. I do believe people deserve second chances, you seem smart enough to know this guy and obviously know yourself. You are the best judge of this situation. IF you still love him and want to be with him I wouldn't let your pride get in the way.

 

Glad to hear you're doing well. I'm doing fine, dating here and there, nothing serious, I feel as if i'm at the tail end of my healing/forgiving myself and i'm basically out of the woods 95%. I'm actively looking for the first time in my life aswell which is weird:lmao::lmao:

[Meli22]

YES! All this! I went through the same sort of thing with my ex-husband. He dumped me, and I almost drove myself crazy with blaming myself. I had an excellent therapist who helped me see that it wasn't all me and it wasn't all him. And how closure is something that I had to find by myself. It is such a good feeling to finally realize that.

 

When we broke up I remember thinking oh god.. How will I deal with all of this self blame? What if I'd have done this or that differently, maybe we'd be perfect now? My therapist explained to me that I did all I could, in fact I probably invested a little too much. And that in fact HE was the one with the issues and it's a wonder that MY feelings didn't fade. This helped me so much, because throughout our whole rship I thought EVERYTHING was my fault. It's nice to step back and realise it wasn't.

[ZiggyZoo]

Yep, great answer. That's basically what I was wondering - whether it was your pride that was interfering with your feelings for him, because as you said it seems he is genuinely remorseful. I guess as cliche as it is, everybody screws up, it's just how people behave after they screw up and whether they fundamentally try to learn from their screw up and rectify the situation to the best of their abilities that means the most. I'm not sure who I was thinking about then ... I could've sworn it was your situation where this guy was doing some really messed up stuff to intentionally hurt you but obviously it mustn't have been.

 

If I put myself in your position, or rather if a woman had done this type of thing to me but also shown the remorse this guy seems to be showing, i think my process would kind of go this way

- I still love her

- This has affected her, she has communicated this to me and i believe her, and she's showing true remorse which speaks volumes about how she feels about me

- I still love her

- I still love her

- It makes no sense to throw this away given I still love her and she is really trying to make it work

 

However I would be extremely cautious and be taking things extremely slowly. I do believe people deserve second chances, you seem smart enough to know this guy and obviously know yourself. You are the best judge of this situation. IF you still love him and want to be with him I wouldn't let your pride get in the way.

 

Glad to hear you're doing well. I'm doing fine, dating here and there, nothing serious, I feel as if i'm at the tail end of my healing/forgiving myself and i'm basically out of the woods 95%. I'm actively looking for the first time in my life aswell which is weird:lmao::lmao:

 

I'm glad that you're doing well. It's a long process, but it feels good to work things out properly. Less to bite you in the a*s down the road, that's for sure.

 

You pretty much nailed my thought process on the head. I've been really examining my views on forgiveness and all that. I used to be so completely black and white with people, and it has cost me some relationships, romantic and otherwise, that I could have been a little more understanding in. Because yeah, people screw up. I certainely have. And if there's a genuine remorse there, is it so wrong to believe that it won't happen again? I'm starting to think that in this case, it wouldn't. Man, every time I see my ex, I feel so happy, and I know he does too. He'll thank me every time we hang out for the opportunity to do so. So if I'm happy and he's happy, then maybe I need to unclench and let things progress for more.

 

I'm never happy when a break-up happens, but I've been lucky that so far, I've been able to turn them around and learn some sort of lesson from them. This one is by far to cut slack when it's warranted and to communicate. If he and I had just communicated better, this wouldn't have happened.

[ZiggyZoo]

When we broke up I remember thinking oh god.. How will I deal with all of this self blame? What if I'd have done this or that differently, maybe we'd be perfect now? My therapist explained to me that I did all I could, in fact I probably invested a little too much. And that in fact HE was the one with the issues and it's a wonder that MY feelings didn't fade. This helped me so much, because throughout our whole rship I thought EVERYTHING was my fault. It's nice to step back and realise it wasn't.

 

My ex left me for another woman, and would try to blame me for making him do it, since he told me he wasn't happy, and I didn't do enough to fix it. It makes me so angry now to read that and know that I believed it. And that he would do that to me, just so he wouldn't have to feel guilty for cheating. But once I understood what he was doing, it really helped me. I got over missing him overnight, as soon as it all became clear. The anger phase is a wonderful ting.

[Ruby65]

I'm glad that you're doing well. It's a long process, but it feels good to work things out properly. Less to bite you in the a*s down the road, that's for sure.

 

You pretty much nailed my thought process on the head. I've been really examining my views on forgiveness and all that. I used to be so completely black and white with people, and it has cost me some relationships, romantic and otherwise, that I could have been a little more understanding in. Because yeah, people screw up. I certainely have. And if there's a genuine remorse there, is it so wrong to believe that it won't happen again? I'm starting to think that in this case, it wouldn't. Man, every time I see my ex, I feel so happy, and I know he does too. He'll thank me every time we hang out for the opportunity to do so. So if I'm happy and he's happy, then maybe I need to unclench and let things progress for more.

 

I'm never happy when a break-up happens, but I've been lucky that so far, I've been able to turn them around and learn some sort of lesson from them. This one is by far to cut slack when it's warranted and to communicate. If he and I had just communicated better, this wouldn't have happened.

 

^ I for one am really happy to read the above! Crossing my fingers that you two will have a happy ending.

 

I agree it's on HIM to win you back, if it ever happens... to do whatever it takes, for as long as it takes.

[darkbloom]

So happy you're back ziggy!

 

Even if you don't get back together, it's probably still a comforting feeling to know that he apologized and that he acknowledged the mistakes and the hurt that he caused you.

 

I am also reexamining my theories on forgiveness. I too am very black and white with people. While I make mistakes, I am very conscious in not doing anything that will cause another person harm. I am fairly good at this, however, I forget that others don't think of act as thoughtfully as I do. And others do not always have the best intentions when they do things. Am I always going to be black and white or does this soften with age?

 

In trying to gain my own closure, I tried to put myself in the ex's shoes. I still can't imagine doing what he did, even if I was in that frame of mind. Does this just mean I make better choices because of my regard for others? Or does this mean he made a mistake and isn't as strong in moral character as I am?

 

I've never made a choice to intentionally hurt someone else. Maybe if I did, I would have more understanding.

 

P.S. Still check my mailbox occasionally for letters from him since that would be the only true way for him to break NC. It never occurred to me until your story to check my mail.

[ZiggyZoo]

Hello darkbloom, it's good to be back!

 

I think the thing that makes me the happiest about the way things are with me and my ex is not having to guard against any accidental contact. Or just seeing him. And also, I always knew that I would probably have to go LC, with the little one on the way, so I'm glad that transition went so well. The rest is just confusing as hell, but in a good way. I'm enjoying hanging out with him again, and its so nice to have another person as

s excited about my pregnancy as I am.

 

I've found that I've softened my views on forgiveness and am definitely not as black and white as I was when I was younger. Shoot, even since I've started coming on here, I've relaxed a little. I've really come to believe that there's not necessarily a one-size-fits-all answer to each individual situation. I do still believe in NC for at least the first six months though, but the idea of a successful reconciliation in some cases is one that I could see happening. Before I was very much against it.

 

I believe too that some people are just naturally more considerate of others. My ex-husband, for example, cheated on me and was a complete a*shole afterwards. I totally think my morals are better than his, and I think it's likely the same with you. Some people are more empathetic and can see past their own immediate needs to project how their actions could possibly hurt someone else. I know I can, so it makes me much more thoughtful with what I say and do. Do I blame people who aren't like this for THEIR sh*tty behavior? I do, when they've done it a few times, and have seen the consequences. If someone hasn't learned from their mistakes and continues to do the same thing over and over then I absolutely think they're selfish and wrong.

Edited May 30, 2015 by ZiggyZoo