Considering Immediate NC - Any Input Greatly Appreciated

[iceisles]

Long-time reader, first-time poster. Before I get into my situation, I just want to say that I have found reading these boards to be incredibly helpful. There are some great opinions on here, and it does help to know that there are many others out there dealing with similar situations. To put it simply, this site has helped me immensely, and I look forward to becoming an active member here.

 

Now on to my situation. I have tried to cut it down to the core facts for length purposes, but if there are any additional details that would help you offer advice, just let me know and I will be happy to provide those. I realize this is long, and I appreciate you taking the time to read my problems, as I'm sure you have plenty of your own.

 

Two weeks ago, my girlfriend and I went on a romantic retreat to Tennessee. The first night, while she thought I was asleep, I overheard her talking to some guy on the phone, saying such things as, "I wish you were here", "I love you too", and "I couldn't wait to call you." She also detailed some of the sexual "activities" they could do together if he was there. Obviously, I was profoundly hurt when I heard these things and confronted her that evening. She broke down, saying that she has just been lonely and that this guy was just someone she met online two weeks ago. She swore that she has never met this guy, and that she was only "playing around with him" when she said some of those things. Of course I found great difficulty believing this. However, that same night, she expressed that she still wanted to be with me. This baffled me because she's the kind of girl that would have told me flat out we were over if she wanted to see someone else or just break up. She also seemed genuinely upset about going behind by back and violating our trust. In fact, she became such a wreck that she almost became physically ill.

 

After being angry for a few days, I took time to get some perspective on things. As hard as it was, I found it in my heart to forgive her and give her the benefit of the doubt that she has never met/done anything with this guy. After being together 14 months with an unblemished trust, I realized that I couldn't automatically jump to conclusions. We live two hours away and only see each other one weekend a month, so it's highly possible that she has been lonely without me and was looking to talk to some other guys. Still, though, hearing her say those things to this guy put a serious dent in our trust, and that wound will definitely take some time to heal.

 

A week later, she informed me that she wanted to break up, but to not take it personally. She stated that she needed to focus on school, as it is really stressing her out. I found this excuse to be incredibly suspicious, but she swore that it had nothing to do with wanting to be with someone else. Again, if she really felt that way, I'm 99% positive that she would just come out and say that. However, she is a senior taking pre-med classes in preparation for medical school, so academic stress is a very real possibility. However, if this excuse is valid, the timing was awful considering that I just found out that she has been talking (quite personally, I may add) to some guy she claims she has never met. I didn't want to over-react here, but school was never a problem for her in our relationship before, and the timing of this had a whirlwind of thoughts going in my head.

 

In the week before we broke up and after I put my anger aside, I sent her a variety of flowers, cards, letters, poems, etc. The purpose was to extend a peace offering to make her understand that I was willing to forgive and move forward in our relationship. These were appreciated, although not overwhelmingly so - until last night, when I finally received a sincere e-mail saying "thanks for everything so far." This meant a lot, because it showed that she really did appreciate everything I had done for her in the aftermath of that awful weekend.

 

Since our breakup, we have been talking online and on the phone. I know it wasn't the right thing to do, but I initially wanted answers to a lot of questions and expressed that I would take her back if she wanted to be together again. I expressed my love for her and reassured her that I was willing to work on whatever voids she felt were in our relationship. Again, she passively appreciated this gesture but said those dreaded words, "I just need space." Man, that phrase always sounds so ominous.

 

My question to you guys and gals is not whether or not you think she was/is seeing someone else, because I have no control over that and unfounded speculation (without any concrete evidence) can drive you insane. Besides, if she has been seeing this guy behind my back and flat out lied when confronted about it, this is not someone that I want to be with anyway.

 

What I need to know is whether or not you think immediate no contact (NC) is a good option right now? I must say that our relationship as friends right now is actually pretty damn good, even though we are not together and the bitter memories of what transpired in Tennessee still linger. However, she clearly knows how I feel, particularly after sending a barrage of romantic/sentimental gifts prior to the official breakup. I am not a vengeful person, but I kind of feel that I should slam on the brakes right now and greatly cut back my interaction with her. Actually, given that she still wants to talk, I'd probably be looking at reduced contact, because if she e-mails or calls, I will obviously have to get back to her (though perhaps not right away).

 

My thinking is that this will give her the space she has requested, as I have basically reached full saturation with telling her my feelings, etc. I also want to put the proverbial "ball" back in her court and see what she does with it. My goal is to remain invisible to her online and respond to her e-mails and phone calls with only "small-talk", with no discussion or reference to our relationship past, present, or future. If there is to be any further conversation about "us", it will have to come from her. She broke up with me, and I want to get her thinking that she could possibly lose a second chance with me. I also won't be upset if my silence makes what she did to me start to weigh heavily on her conscience. I apologize if this sounds arrogant, but I was really good to her. Part of me wants to get revenge, albeit diplomatically and maturely. She needs to know how much she hurt me going behind my back, and actions do speak louder than words.

 

Do you think my idea of immediate NC is a good one? If you were me, how would you view my situation? Is the fact that she's still talking to me indicate that maybe she does feel remorse for what she did? Did I over-react with thinking that she was seeing this guy after hearing what I did? Would you buy her excuse about needing space because of school stress? If could you touch on any or all of these questions, I would be most appreciative.

 

I'm sorry if this was long, but it helped to get a lot of this out. I'm confident that your responses will help me feel a lot better about the situation. I know I can't make her love me if she doesn't want to, but I know I have a number of options on where to go from here. It's that direction that I so desperately need.

 

Thanks,

* Dave *

[Papillon]

Sometimes people just need to sort their own sh*t out, and they need to do this without outside disturbance.

 

As much as we want try to fix things, sometimes a relationship is like an old broken wind-up watch: It can't be fixed, but sometimes you wind it up and it starts ticking. It just needed time lying in the attic to stew in it's own juices.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by Papillon

Sometimes people just need to sort their own sh*t out, and they need to do this without outside disturbance.

 

As much as we want try to fix things, sometimes a relationship is like an old broken wind-up watch: It can't be fixed, but sometimes you wind it up and it starts ticking. It just needed time lying in the attic to stew in it's own juices.

 

I agree. She also has problems with depression, so it's possible that is factoring into her needing time. Do you think I should slam on the brakes for awhile? For example, if she were to call me tonight - maybe let the machine pick up and get back to her tomorrow sometime? I've heard appearing needy and/or weak is more likely to push her away.

[Papillon]

If she has emotional problems, then you should be there for her, always. I mean...she's going through a rough time now, same as you, and if she feels the need to talk to you, let her.

 

You should maybe establish a basis to move on - that you love her, and that you are going to give her her space and not mess with her mind, but that she can call whenever she needs to.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by Papillon

If she has emotional problems, then you should be there for her, always. I mean...she's going through a rough time now, same as you, and if she feels the need to talk to you, let her.

 

You should maybe establish a basis to move on - that you love her, and that you are going to give her her space and not mess with her mind, but that she can call whenever she needs to.

 

Maybe I'll do that. I'll just have to keep the phone conversations to whatever she wants to talk about, of if she's quiet, things that have nothing to do with the relationship. I am going to stop e-mailing and IMing her indefinitely, however, as I do not want to appear needy (even though I want her back badly).

[iceisles]

Actually, thinking it over some more, I think I should play hard to get (or at least hard to get ahold of) for awhile, even if she is depressed. I can't have her thinking that I'm sitting by the phone waiting for her to call. The days where we haven't spoken, I've wondered what she's been up to, and it drove me crazy. I think it's time she gets a taste of what that's like, wouldn't you agree? To me, it will be a true test to see if she misses me - and how much.

[iceisles]

Any more takers? I know this is a long a** post, but I could really use the help. Thanks.

[Scott S]

Originally posted by iceisles

I agree. She also has problems with depression, so it's possible that is factoring into her needing time. Do you think I should slam on the brakes for awhile? For example, if she were to call me tonight - maybe let the machine pick up and get back to her tomorrow sometime? I've heard appearing needy and/or weak is more likely to push her away.

 

I think "slam on the brakes" is the wrong metaphor. When you do that, you lock up the wheels, & the vehicle skids out of control. In other words, don't just drop off the face of the earth.

 

You seem to have the idea. Back off gently. Maybe wait 2 or 3 days before calling her back, citing your own busy-ness. If the weather permits in your area, take a short road trip. Perhaps go off fishing.

 

When you do talk to her (and that's when SHE calls you), light small-talk is the order. How are classes going. How are mid-terms going, etc. Don't dredge up about what happened in TN.

 

You're right about appearing needy. That behavior is a repellant.

[Scott S]

Originally posted by iceisles

Actually, thinking it over some more, I think I should play hard to get (or at least hard to get ahold of) for awhile, even if she is depressed. I can't have her thinking that I'm sitting by the phone waiting for her to call. The days where we haven't spoken, I've wondered what she's been up to, and it drove me crazy. I think it's time she gets a taste of what that's like, wouldn't you agree? To me, it will be a true test to see if she misses me - and how much.

 

One other thing. Try not to get into a Mind-Games mentality. You will likely find it as maddening as she would.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by Scott S

One other thing. Try not to get into a Mind-Games mentality. You will likely find it as maddening as she would.

 

Thanks for the advice. It's really easy to cross the line into mind-games, and that's definitely not what I want. I do expect her to call tonight or tomorrow, but I will let the machine get it and call her back in a couple of days. She hasn't been e-mailing me much, but should I be polite and respond with small-talk if she does contact me? And would you also recommend waiting a few days for this as well, even though I check my e-mail every hour?

[savethedrama4allama]

Hi there, former lurker.

 

She asked for space, I recommend you give it to her.

 

From your quote "She broke up with me, and I want to get her thinking that she could possibly lose a second chance with me" I surmise that you would give her a second chance if she wanted it.

 

If this is the case, I recommend you do what you are contemplating: make yourself invisible online, and only reply to her calls or emails sparingly, impersonally, and after a brief period has passed. Don't initiate, only reciprocate.

 

This keeps the lines of communication open if she comes around. I think that "NC" is best when you're coming off a relationship that you know is truly over, and you need time to heal. She might need time to sort things out, or she might want to break up for good and afraid to admit it. But if you love her and want to get back together, don't "slam the breaks" on her yet.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by savethedrama4yrmama

Hi there, former lurker.

 

She asked for space, I recommend you give it to her.

 

From your quote "She broke up with me, and I want to get her thinking that she could possibly lose a second chance with me" I surmise that you would give her a second chance if she wanted it.

 

If this is the case, I recommend you do what you are contemplating: make yourself invisible online, and only reply to her calls or emails sparingly, impersonally, and after a brief period has passed. Don't initiate, only reciprocate.

 

This keeps the lines of communication open if she comes around. I think that "NC" is best when you're coming off a relationship that you know is truly over, and you need time to heal. She might need time to sort things out, or she might want to break up for good and afraid to admit it. But if you love her and want to get back together, don't "slam the breaks" on her yet.

 

I suppose I should have used a better metaphor than "slam the breaks", as that sounds harsh. If she wanted to get back together, I would be willing to give it another chance. I just don't want to appear needy, or that I am just waiting around for her next contact. I want to do everything I can to remain strong, not only for myself, but for any potential friendship/relationship that may be in store for the future. By the way, do you take the fact that she is still talking to me politely as a good sign? I would think if she was totally into someone else, she wouldn't be bothering with me nearly as much. Then again, maybe she feels guilty. Women can be so hard to read.

[savethedrama4allama]

Originally posted by iceisles

I suppose I should have used a better metaphor than "slam the breaks", as that sounds harsh. If she wanted to get back together, I would be willing to give it another chance. I just don't want to appear needy, or that I am just waiting around for her next contact. I want to do everything I can to remain strong, not only for myself, but for any potential friendship/relationship that may be in store for the future.

Perfect.

 

Well, the only person who knows what she is feeling is her- and she may not even. She sounds confused. She obviously doesn't hate your guts if she's still contacting you some, it could indicate that she loves you, or it could be guilt. Maybe she loves you but for some reason knows it will not work. Maybe...she cheated on you with this guy and doesn't want to crush you or is too cowardly to admit it.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by savethedrama4yrmama

Perfect.

 

Maybe...she cheated on you with this guy and doesn't want to crush you or is too cowardly to admit it.

 

I really hope this isn't the case, but the thought has crossed my mind. She is very honest but has always been sensitive to my feelings. I don't think she'd cheat, but 24 years on this Earth has taught me that you can never fully know a person. I am giving her a big benefit of the doubt this one time, but that's it. I believe in forgiveness, but not unconditional or perpetual forgiveness.

[Scott S]

Originally posted by iceisles

[sNIP] I do expect her to call tonight or tomorrow, but I will let the machine get it and call her back in a couple of days. She hasn't been e-mailing me much, but should I be polite and respond with small-talk if she does contact me? And would you also recommend waiting a few days for this as well, even though I check my e-mail every hour?

 

 

Yes, absolutely be polite & respond if she does contact you. After waiting a day or two.

 

Keep the subject matter light-hearted, ask her about school, tell her what you've been up to, and DO NOT say that there is a big black hole in your life where she used to be, etc.

 

Whether you ever have the same kind of relationship again is unclear, but if you don't, wouldn't you rather she remember you as a gentleman, a prize catch that she let slip away, rather than "What a d**khead!! Good riddance!"

[iceisles]

Originally posted by Scott S

Yes, absolutely be polite & respond if she does contact you. After waiting a day or two.

 

Keep the subject matter light-hearted, ask her about school, tell her what you've been up to, and DO NOT say that there is a big black hole in your life where she used to be, etc.

 

Whether you ever have the same kind of relationship again is unclear, but if you don't, wouldn't you rather she remember you as a gentleman, a prize catch that she let slip away, rather than "What a d**khead!! Good riddance!"

 

Excellent points. She e-mailed me last night, so I wrote her a letter today about everything you suggested. I'm basically making it seem like life is grand and perfect, even though I miss her more than anything. She has to be wondering how I appear so happy after being dumped. In fact, I'm almost positive it's making her think.

[iceisles]

With her e-mailing/calling me so often, do you all think taking longer to respond will have a positive effect on my situation? I'm not looking to play mind-games, but I do hope that she will wonder why it takes me 2 days to write back when it usually takes 2 hours. Do you all think it is wrong of me to want to make her wonder what I'm doing? I just want to regain some control of the situation (balance of power, etc.) without being deceitful or manipulative. I keep hearing "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and really believe there could be truth in that.

[Mary3]

In this relationship you became the Giver and she became ( and remains ) the Taker.

 

You give, give, give and then give somemore...promising to take her back...promising to be good....promising to be her everything if she takes you back.

 

She is the Taker and she is going to do what feels good for HER....what she LIKES and if it hurts someone else in the process then oh well.....Thats the Takers mentality. ( Takers DO NOT Feel your PAIN ) okay.,...?

 

You have reached the Withdrawl phase where she withdrawls from you and tries to create her own life.

 

As hard as this is : If you do not do NC and decide to be civil to her and continue talking to her then under no circumstances do you want to judge her, blame her, chastise her.......just treat her like you would your grandmother....pleasant....kind ....but your BEST option is NC.....as HARD as that is.,...let her take the bite.....let HER initiate further contact ALWAYS while she plays this break up game.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by Mary3

In this relationship you became the Giver and she became ( and remains ) the Taker.

 

You give, give, give and then give somemore...promising to take her back...promising to be good....promising to be her everything if she takes you back.

 

She is the Taker and she is going to do what feels good for HER....what she LIKES and if it hurts someone else in the process then oh well.....Thats the Takers mentality. ( Takers DO NOT Feel your PAIN ) okay.,...?

 

You have reached the Withdrawl phase where she withdrawls from you and tries to create her own life.

 

As hard as this is : If you do not do NC and decide to be civil to her and continue talking to her then under no circumstances do you want to judge her, blame her, chastise her.......just treat her like you would your grandmother....pleasant....kind ....but your BEST option is NC.....as HARD as that is.,...let her take the bite.....let HER initiate further contact ALWAYS while she plays this break up game.

 

I get the strange feeling that I am being kept around as a "safety net" and her 2nd, 3rd, or 4th choice. I need to send a message that this is not acceptable. Either come clean with your feelings or stop contacting me altogether. I'm significantly scaling back interaction with her via limited contact in an effort to make her state her position on our situation. I don't like playing games, but I agree that NC (or limited contact) is the best option available to me right now.

[SoleMate]

Great post by Mary3. This girl was using you, I am afraid. As to whether she was cheating...I'd bet the rent on it. If she couldn't avoid calling the OM on your one weekend a month together, then I'm convinced she's in pretty deep with him.

 

If she has a problem with clinical depression, I disagree with Papillon. You do NOT need to stand by her while she jerks around your emotions. Her emotional problems are hers to solve. Like Mary3 said, you have given and given, she has taken and taken. A clinically depressed person can soak up all your sympathy and energy, then turn around and blame you for not caring enough. They are experts at blaming everyone but themselves for the pain they are feeling. (I'm speaking as a former depressed person here.)

 

NC is definitely the right choice for you. NC has two successful outcomes: 1) Reconciliation or 2) Healing of heartache and willingness to move on. For your sake, I hope you achieve Outcome #2.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by SoleMate

Great post by Mary3. This girl was using you, I am afraid. As to whether she was cheating...I'd bet the rent on it. If she couldn't avoid calling the OM on your one weekend a month together, then I'm convinced she's in pretty deep with him.

 

If she has a problem with clinical depression, I disagree with Papillon. You do NOT need to stand by her while she jerks around your emotions. Her emotional problems are hers to solve. Like Mary3 said, you have given and given, she has taken and taken. A clinically depressed person can soak up all your sympathy and energy, then turn around and blame you for not caring enough. They are experts at blaming everyone but themselves for the pain they are feeling. (I'm speaking as a former depressed person here.)

 

NC is definitely the right choice for you. NC has two successful outcomes: 1) Reconciliation or 2) Healing of heartache and willingness to move on. For your sake, I hope you achieve Outcome #2.

 

That's a great point about having to call him during the one weekend we spent together - why would she risk calling another guy behind my back if he was just a casual online friend, as she put it? I do believe that she was unhappy in the relationship but didn't want to hurt my feelings, thinking this news might crush me. Even after we've broken up, she still denies having ever met the guy. At this point, I am caring less and less what the truth is, mainly because I don't expect to ever get the full story anyway. She made need time and/or space to think about things, but I only expect to hear carefully chosen pieces of the story when she starts talking.

 

Right now I'm 80% positive that I wouldn't take her back even if she came crying to my doorstep - and that figure may hit 100% by the end of the weekend. After all, how could I ever be comfortable in a relationship where I couldn't trust my partner? Being sympathetic to my feelings is noble to a point, but not to the extent that it discourages discussing critical issues in a relationship. I officialy started NC yesterday and we'll see if she comes looking for me once I've receded into the shadows. Do I have any concrete proof that she was/is cheating? Nope, but there is something to be said about suspicious, circumstantial evidence. After all, even murder trials can result in a conviction without ever producing a body. As I regain control over my life and emotions, my gut is telling me that there should be no second chances here. That seems to be the sentiment that many of you are also leaning towards.

[SoleMate]

Do I have any concrete proof that she was/is cheating?

Very rarely do people get firsthand proof (like finding the two of them in bed together, naked and sweaty). It's almost always circumstantial. And the standard of proof is simply "preponderance of evidence" in my mind. Then the burden switches to the (possibly) wayward partner.

 

Being sympathetic to my feelings is noble to a point, but not to the extent that it discourages discussing critical issues in a relationship.

That's a great insight - hold on to it. I have seen much damage done by people holding in their true feelings to avoid "hurting others" or "rocking the boat". The result over time is that there is less and less to really connect about, and the two parties inevitably become distanced. Please check out Dr. Harley's thoughts on "Radical Honesty" at <URL removed> You have to be diplomatic and caring in the WAY you say it - just don't hold back on the content.

[iceisles]

There are a number of threads in these forums that discuss why most "second chance" relationships fail, and I agree with most of them. Trust is usually always the element that has been severely damaged or broken, and it can never be fully restored. Whether a couple was together for 14 months or 14 years, trust remains consistently fragile. While I would like for things to be like they were before all of this happened, you cannot turn back the hands of time. Instead, I have to ask myself if she falls in the very small percentage of damaged relationships that are worth saving, and I'd have to say this doesn't qualify. I do believe that this has already made me stronger, and if nothing else, I have learned some solid lessons from this ordeal. Most notably, in situations like this, you can't let other people control you - life has too much to offer to be dragged down by the pitfalls of someone else's peril.

[iceisles]

SoleMate (and anyone else), there is one very important piece of circumstantial evidence that I failed to mention in my initial post. I was with my ex for 36 hours before I caught her talking to this guy, and she kept making excuses to not have sex with me. She complained of having cramps, being too tired, etc., which was completely unlike her. And even though she said she still wanted to be with me after the night of the incident, she kept avoiding sex for the remaining four days of our trip. Only now she changed her excuse to "I'm not in the mood after going through all this." I was certainly mad at her but thought that some make-up "relations" sometime during the trip would surface.

 

Do you think her unwillingness to have sex (or even let me touch her sexually) is pretty solid evidence for her cheating on me? The first night she said she had cramps, then a few hours later I heard her describing in detail what she and this guy could do in the hot tub, etc. She became very defensive (even offended) when I questioned her lack of interest in having sex (even before the incident) and said something to the effect of, "It's my body and you have to respect when I don't want to do anything."

 

I guess this must sound pretty obvious to you, and perhaps I am just looking for validation of my suspicion. However, if she has been intimate with this guy, why wouldn't she just send me a Dear John letter and end it all? If he makes her happy, romantically and/or sexually, why does she need me anymore? I really wish she'd just cut me loose instead of stringing me along. Oh, and thanks to your insight, I am now 90% positive that I will never take her back. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Panther]

All I would have to say from personal experience is one word.....RUN. I just went throught he same thing. I wish I would have taken the advice given earlier and RAN the moment she broke it off with me. NC is th eonly way. It accomplishes a few different things. 1. Either she will miss you and realise what she lost and get back together with you if you want or 2. it will help you get over it, cause a relationship (especially and unhealthy one) can be alike a drug, and the only way to get over it is to go COLD TURKEY. and 3. it will help you keep your self respect.

Good luck....