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Relationship ended- confused and bemused... Advice Needed!


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:confused::confused::confused:

 

Hello,

I would like to thank you for your time in advance.

 

 

Now to the problem-

 

 

I am a male, at age 19 almost 20. She is 18 almost 19.

 

I had been going out with my girlfriend for 1 year, and we knew each other intimately for over 1.5 years.

 

In the beginning her mother loved me, I was able to break her out of a controlling relationship and by her and her mother's admission, I saved her life.

 

About 9 months in, the mother saw it getting seriously serious- and began to go through what many have told me is best described as parental separation anxiety. My girlfriend was off at her first year of college, and only tied to her mother having lost her father at age 10. Without getting into a long story here, let me leave it at this: her mother is dependant on her daughter, and blinded by that. She does not respect her daughter, her decisions, or anything that she says. Now, she does not respect me. She hates me, and her reasons are irrational and derived from blinding neurosis. Calling my consulting clients and telling them that I am 'not trustworthy' is just the beginning.

 

Now, after 4 moths of her mother against me, her mother has won.

My girlfriend left me last week.

 

She left me after being pressured by her mother 24/7 and a newfound sense of strength from her 'psychologist'. Her psychologist's advice was hypocritical at best, if you remember above where I said I broke her out of a relationship that was going to kill her, well, her psychologist then advised her that this is the best time in her life for a strong relationship. now- she advised her that this is the best time to be single, obviously her mother's working with the psychologist.

 

By the way, did I mention that the psychologist and her mother talk behind her back? anyhow.

 

She wanted to break up on July 3rd, and she did, but without talking to me. 2 days later she came running back to talk after I sent the word out indirectly that she handled to poorly, and that I should have been given the chance to at least converse and talk about this point. I also said that this was far from a point to end the relationship over, that this was more of a point to take a serious look at our partnership, and talk about it. She came back, we talked, I apologized from crowding her space, she apologized for not communicating- and we were back together for a little less than a week.

 

Now she is gone again, saying that she loves me more than anything, and that love isn't the thing. She says that she wants to get to know herself- that she wants to be single, not in any relationship.

 

I couldn't even talk to her about it, it was like speaking to a wall, she was set to do it right after a meeting with her psychologist earlier that day. She said she wasn't feeling well, so I came right over. I wasn't even ready for it, I came into the house with her favorite flowers in hand, and personalized hot tea to give her in bed. I found her on the couch crying, and I new it that moment what happened.

 

She told me that she wanted to be alone, regardless of our past happiness. I did things for her that I can guarantee that less than 1% of guys do for even their wives. I took her to Europe, I made her romantic dinners from scratch, I took her out all of the time, I made her breakfast in bed, and surprised her with her favorite things--- all the time, not just when in little fights with here, which were rare at best.

 

So now it is over- at least for now- but she did not renounce our love even during the final hours, she in-fact put so much pride in how strong her love is for me- but was set on doing something that I don't think she even knew she wanted.

 

It was like this wasn't even her, it was like her mother and doctor were speaking through her. it was like a nightmare.

 

I am not calling her, giving her the time she desired, but I do not want this to be the end due to the fact that the love is obviously still there. I AM ALL FOR LEAVING AND MOVING ON IF THE LOVE IS GONE, BUT THE LOVE IS STRONG!

 

Now another quandary, I had booked tickets to meet her in France as a surprise for our one year anniversary. Her mother of course scheduled a trip with my now ex, and her best friend in the south of France for 8 days over our one year thinking that would hurt the relationship. Well, I took that not as a blow to the crux of our partnership, but as an opportunity.

 

I started to save within the last 4 months of our relationship $6,000. Within the lat 4 months, I have been working hard with my business, and saving money, so she understood that times were tight for cash, but didn't know that I was stockpiling the money along side of my plane tickets to Europe.

 

I was to SURPRISE her in France in t he beginning of her trip with her friend, and let her know that I was there, and what my plans were, and to change her return date to a later one so that we could have some time together, but not stifle or encroach on her trip with her best friend. After her friend went home, I was to take her on a romantic touring of Venice, Paris, and London with lush accommodations at her favorite places.

 

 

Question:

 

Now, I do not know what I should do about our relationship. She will have had 1 month to process things going on before she goes to France.

 

1) So what do I do about the entire relationship. This seems to be a common point for ending relationships- the wanted to obtain self realization and what not. Cant you find yourself better with a partner than without in some cases?

 

2) What do I do about France, still go and let her know that I had it planned, get her best friend in on it, and show her how I feel by placing hundreds of flowers, pictures, and a CD with my voice on it in her room to find. Having her call my worldwide cell phone, and if things go well, walk up and nock on her door? I have many ideas that I could do for her while she is there without running her trip.

 

3) I am not a fan of 'taking a break', but in this case, I feel it is different, and can actually strengthen things, I did realize what I lost once it was gone. Am I kidding myself? Can it ever be strong again?

 

 

Thank you!!!! I really appreciate anyone's advice or help here.

 

-chris

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1) So what do I do about the entire relationship. This seems to be a common point for ending relationships- the wanted to obtain self realization and what not. Cant you find yourself better with a partner than without in some cases?

 

This makes no difference. She is still a very young lady and one from a highly dysfunctional family. There is extreme pathology in a female who loses a father at age 10. This is a trauma of unmeasureable proportions and a matter that takes intense healing over a very long period once the problems are realized.

 

This is compounded by her mother, who is dysfunctionally dependent on your ex as the all-important connection to her dead husband and her reason for living at this time. It will be very difficult, for the time being, for your girl to get serious with anybody as long as mama is around.

 

You sound like an extremely bright guy who likes to fight for what he wants. But in this case, I think you don't realize the problems that will follow you if you continue seeing this lady...even if her mother did not interfere.

 

Your ex has a lot of repressed emotions that must be processed, she has abandonment issues, she is highly vulnerable as evidenced by the psychologist's ability to talk her into leaving you so easily, and she really does need a whole lot of time to be alone and sort all this out. Unfortunately, she won't get a lot of that alone time with mama around but that's not your problem.

 

2) What do I do about France, still go and let her know that I had it planned, get her best friend in on it, and show her how I feel by placing hundreds of flowers, pictures, and a CD with my voice on it in her room to find. Having her call my worldwide cell phone, and if things go well, walk up and nock on her door? I have many ideas that I could do for her while she is there without running her trip.

 

Do nothing of the kind. Call the airline now and get your money back or sell your tickets to someone else. Another option is to go to France alone and tour the countryside. Don't even think of trying to find your ex while you're there if you choose this option.

 

If you go through with your plans, you will appear as a crazed nut and further put a wedge in any potential future relationship with this gal. She may be a little impressed but her mother will be furious if you do this. Just forget about it entirely. I know you were psyched up about doing it but just forget about it now.

 

Placing flowers, pictures, a CD, etc. in her room (I guess you mean her hotel room in France) would be highly inappropriate and bizarre behavior in the context of what has happened. You will then appear to be an absolute fool and you would give her mother undeniable proof of that. Don't do it. Do not get involved in the trip to France under any circumstances.

 

This is OVER....get the France deal out of your head altogether...delete, delete, delete.

 

3) I am not a fan of 'taking a break', but in this case, I feel it is different, and can actually strengthen things, I did realize what I lost once it was gone. Am I kidding myself? Can it ever be strong again?

 

You are going through a denial phase, which is the first phase of pain and hurt in a break up. This is a normal place to be and it's OK. The final stage is anger. When you really get mad as hell about all this, you will have arrived. Right now, getting mad is the last thing you want to consider because as long as you're in denial you feel you can put this back together.

 

Life happens in strange ways and you never know how it's going to play out. But if you want even a slight chance of ever being back with this gal in the future, with or without her mother's blessings, you will have to respect your ex's wishes to be out of her life at least for a while.

 

An important thing to learn is that it takes a great deal more than the most intense love to keep a relationship together. Love is never enough. If many other elements are not in place, there is no relationship. In your life, you will love many ladies deeply with whom you will never have any relationship at all.

 

For now, celebrate the time you had with your ex, move forward with the healing process, and see where time takes you. But you should plan on finding a lady whose mental stability is closer to yours....somebody who doesn't have the attachment issues with her mother (you'll never win in those situations) and someone who has worked out all of her abandonment and repressed anger issues from the death of a parent (if that has occurred).

 

I personally think you have not yet met your soulmate...the greatest love of your life....the one you were meant to be with. Wow, you sound like the dream of every lady. Just don't be too nice too soon with the new ones you meet.

 

What you had planned for France is something few guys would think of or put the energy you have into. I'm just sorry you picked the wrong gal to spring such a wonderful surprise on.

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Hey Tony,

 

Thank you very much for your reply and the time you took to sort through these issues.

 

I agree with much you have to say, but I have a few questions.

 

 

 

First of all, when I say we are in love, I mean in the emotional sense based on loving behaviors. Not just I LOVE YOU because... I LOVE YOU, but I love you because you are so: __ __ __ and because you treat me _ _ _ _ and because you do such loving things for me.

 

That is my definition of true love, something that peaks its head outside the conventional realm of a relationship so that you can better fill the gaps where love is needed. does that make sense?

 

 

-

 

I have been dealing with the France bit for some time, trying to figure out what to do.

 

Remember, I did have the tickets 4 months ago, and this isn't like I am doing it souly to save the relationship.

 

I can guarantee you that when and if she finds out, this is where all of my hard earned cash has been going, and that I was planning an anniversary Italy/UK tour, she will flip (in a good way). My car has been in and out of order for the past 8 months, this is alright, I live at the beach, I work closely, ride my bike, and have 2 cars I use if I need to travel farther out. If you are picturing a beach bum of some sort, not to sound arrogant, but I own a world renowned network security company. It is in startup/stealth forma right now, and has been, this is why the cash flow has been so tight. I make 90k a year but put 95% back into the company. anyhow. I believe that since she doesn't even know about this trip thus far, when she finds out, she will flip.

 

About her mother and the trip. Though you are dead on with reading her mother and their relationship- one thing her mother said was that I would never have the motivation or will to spend my own money to see her in another country while on a trip. Her mother might be furious, but she would be a hypocrite to do so. This would be using her own words against her, and proving her so wrong. Now, I know I might not win the war, but if I can sustain the battles until my love matures a bit more- then who knows.

 

Maybe my focus is misdirected, and I should set a different goal while there.

 

Here is my newest idea:

 

Take a look here for reference first: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=69531#post69531

 

In addition to the linked post above, she told her friend, my friend, that she wanted a to make it more of a break, but knew how I felt about breaks, so she didn't dare say anything anyway- on top of the obvious respect factor.

 

Ok, to the idear!

 

I decorate her room with just flowers, delete the cd player and tracks with my voice, just a calling card with my number on it and a 2 sentence printed note on the card (details ironed out later).

 

The newfound goal is that of me telling her that I love her enough to wait. I will wait and be faithful to any goals I set. This will not be to hard, I am not on the hunt, I feel no need to be, that part of me feels tranquil and solid, while the rest of my emotions whirlwind around that centrifuge of solidarity.

 

I think this is obtainable, and will bolster any future relationship- instead of make her scared and kill future chances.

 

I will still be respecting her space, and furthermore her 'time'.

 

 

Ideas?

 

 

Thanks!

-giraffe

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also,

 

I was thinking of these OTHER 2 options:

 

1, I don't want her in the midst of thinking things over to forget what we have been through (the good). I have hundreds of little items and pictures commemorating the good times that I want to put in a album and give to her for the soul purpose of 'not forgetting'.

 

Just think, her mother and psychologist are not going to tell her to remember the good- they are going to point out the specs of bad, and push them until then end. I am not going to do this with the goal in mind being to get her back right away, but with the goal that she will realize what we had within her own time.

 

2,

Meeting with the mother, trying to smooth things out. I guarantee that this wouldn't not have happened if I were still on good terms with her mother. I want to do this for 2 reasons, one so that she does not slenderize my name any longer, and two to be man enough to stand up and take accountability for any mistakes that I might have made.

 

 

Thoughts on this?

 

Thank You, I know this is allot to digest, but I really appreciate it people.

 

-giraffe

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No matter what I write, you are hell bent on doing what you want. I don't hold that against you. I know how you feel, definitely been there and made all the mistakes.

 

I stand by my original post in every respect, no matter what your definitions of love or whatever are.

 

I do respect your need to learn the hard way. Go forward with what you feel you should do and knock yourself out. We'll be here for you when you get clobbered.

 

I didn't learn this stuff until after my mid twenties no matter what anybody told me so why should I expect you to listen to me. One day you'll be on this board advising other people just like I've advised you.

 

Here's to the school of learning the hard way!!!

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tony,

 

I do respect your advice along with any outside advice, I understand completely that sometimes that is the only way to look at a situation. After letting it sink in for a while, I had decided to nix the France meeting/decoration/romantics and move on to another idea that is much less intrusive.

 

Those ideas are outlined in my above post, what do you think about that- meeting with the mom, and making a memories book, so even through her thinking time, and her time away, she doesn't forget or OVERLOOK the hundreds of things we had shared. And then, at the end of that book, I am going to put a copy of the plane tickets I was to use to go to France, and add something LIKE this:

 

 

(bug symobilic question mark with the world 'the future' inside of it, with this text below)

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

whatever you decide, do the right thing.

 

whatever you decide, my love will not fade within the timeframe of life.

 

whatever you decide, is your decision, I am just a product of the thoughts leading up to that.

 

love-

me

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

What do you think? I will mail the album to her, and let her digest it whenever she wants. It will never say inside, to get back together, or pressure her to do anything, just stating the memories in physical form, something her mother can never wipe away once viewed.

 

:)

 

Thanks-

geoff

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I think the psychiatrist is right. It would be good for her to spend some time alone. She was in a bad, controlling relationship. People tend to repeat these relationships until they heal themselves. One doesn't usually go from a purely dysfunctional relationship to a purely healthy one. This doesn't put a very positive light on your relationship.

 

She needs time to figure out who she is. To get strong and learn to love herself. When she reaches that point she will be ready to decide if she wants a relationship with you. She's asked you to leave her alone. You need to respect that. If at some point in the future you both wish to rekindle the relationship, then so be it. For now, move on with your life.

 

The France idea sounds crazy. You've all ready told her you still love her. Showing up on her vacation is not respecting her space. It is subtle pressure to get back with you and it will affect the time spent with her friend.

 

Don't tell her you will wait for her. You don't know how long that will be or if you will want to do it. Tell her you loved and enjoyed your time with her and to look you up when she's ready. You will be miserable if you wait too long for something that may never happen.

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Alrigt, I do agree with you.

 

I would agree with the psycologyst also, but they way she went about it was wrong not only in my eyes, but in the eyes of other doctors. She played game after game, and was quite underhanded in certain areas which was good for the past controlling relationship, but not this one.

 

 

If she knew that in the end the relationship that she was allowing this girl to enter into with full concent, and overwhealming support was dommed to fail due to X point, then she shold have been counciling around that point so is to build stronger her, I, and us. no?

 

Anyhow- france is off- yes.

 

The scrap book is not off, it is very on. :)

 

I am working on it 24/7 for the next few days, and will have it done soon. There are many smybolic meanins in there, not much wording at all. Any words are not directed at getting her back. Just showing feelings from both of our sides, and presenting memories. This will be given before her trip- and in a no contact, non-intrusive way.

 

 

??question time??

 

 

my question to you BeReal: Can a person not grow emotionaly, physically, and otherwise within a loving supportive freedom granting relationship just as well or better than alone? I quote this from Dr. Phil, and many other relationship-eologists ;) that I respect. Please let me know your thoughts

 

 

 

 

thanks all- any other ideas and thoughts would be wonderfull.

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"my question to you BeReal: Can a person not grow emotionaly, physically, and otherwise within a loving supportive freedom granting relationship just as well or better than alone?"

 

I guess it's possible. I'm not sure you can provide that atmosphere though. There will be subtle pressures in a relationship and she may be too concerned with what you think to be real ;) It's better to have a good understanding of who you are before you get involved. It is always nice to have someone supporting you, but I think you can do that better by just respecting her wishes. If you truly think her psychiatrist is unqualified, maybe you could suggest she find someone else. She is over 18 and her psychologist should be keeping her confidences. If she's not right with herself, then what are you getting out of this relationship? Do you feel like you have her 100%?

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YOU WRITE: "Those ideas are outlined in my above post, what do you think about that- meeting with the mom, and making a memories book, so even through her thinking time, and her time away, she doesn't forget or OVERLOOK the hundreds of things we had shared."

 

The idea sounds pathetically inappropriate to me. You obviously have no respect for this girl or her mother and you are going to show this to them.

 

If you have to make a book so this girl doesn't forget the times you spent together, she has a serious brain dysfunction that needs to be treated by a neurologist. That which remains in normal memories in the mind is far nicer than that represented in pictures.

 

You have been asked in what seems a nice way to back off and move on. You are not willing to respect the wishes of those who have asked you. Instead, you are wanting to think that those are not their wishes, you are making up reasons why this girl really wants to be with you, and you are wanting to go to all lengths to be sure she doesn't forget you. All of these things are just the opposite of what is going to get her back.

 

Women are so turned off to pathetic, needy men it's not funny and everything you have proposed is sickening.

 

Women are attracted to confident men who can live just fine without them. Women are attracted to men who are emotionally strong and can handle these things. You have already expressed your love for this girl but respect is far more important than love. No matter how much you love her, if you're going to be selfish and look out for your own personal desires rather than respect this gal and her mother, you will clearly show them you are someone who is not to be desired.

 

If you act like a man and make yourself scarce, you'll have a much better chance.

 

However, as I've already told you, you're a young man and you've got to make a lot of romantic mistakes before you hit it right. Pursuing this lady as you propose to do will be something you'll look back at in ten years with a red face and embarassment and a great deal of regret.

 

The idea of presenting them with a book of memories is more pathetic than surprising them in France. If you must do one or the other, make an axs of yourself in France....not on American soil.

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it's funny because I am going through the exact same thing right now. Only I have been in a relationship with my bf for 4.5 years now. He lost his mother when he was 10. I don't think he has ever grieved her passing, and I haev told him several times to see a counselor.

 

No matter, he decided that he was confused about what he wanted last week (on Jly 3, coincidence) Then we got back together, a weak later had an argument and broke up again.

 

The thing that makes this so hard is that we run a business together so it is hard not to associate w/ him. I don't think either one of us should walk completely away from the business and I don't think the business can survive without one or the other (me or him).

 

So that is my dilemma. Mind you I want to do all of the things you mentioned. I've tried everything, but it doesn't work.

 

The funny thing is I spoke to him today about a business matter and it seems HE is the one upset! As if I broke up with him!

 

Sunday I went over his house and it was a big mess. His father called the police because I just sat tehre and said I wouldn't leave. I went over there because I told him on teh phone that I took some pills to see what his reaction would be. He hung up on me. When I went over there I asked him if he really thought I was suicidal, why would he do that? I guess that was my test/affirmation that he really doesn't love me. I don't care how selfish you are or how much you need to be alone, if you love someone and you think they are hurt or may die, none of that petty stuff should matter.

 

Anyway, I don't know what is going to happen to the business. There is really no one else who can run it and we're tied up in all these contracts. I'm going out of town for a few days to clear my head about things but I know I will have to face this when I come back. What should I do?

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If she does not want to be with you, how can she say she loves you? That is crazy.

 

If her parents don't want you to date her, and she is siding with her parents, then you MUST let her be.

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that hit the airwaves more than a decade ago, where Sting sings, 'If you love somebody, set them free.' There's even a line where he says he's not going to be a 'beast within a cage.' Reading through the postings on the topic, it sounds like the girl you say you love so much is more of a possession, than someone honestly you love.

 

She asked you for space because she wants to find herself. If you love her, you will respect that, even if it kills you inside. Why? Because you understand that her emotional well-being is much, much more important than your plotting to sabotage her heart. The only thing you're going to accomplish is to drive her away, because she's going to interpret your actions as not caring enough about her to respect her.

 

While some of the things you're planning sound romantic (France, photo albums), in this case it's overkill. Do you really want to woo her back because you love her, or are you trying to prove a point, trying to make her that beast within a cage?

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tony, please, I do understand. I am not assuming much of anything, at worst, an educated guess in order here or there. :)

 

Please do not get frustrated with me, I am trying to convey the problem in such a tough enviroment, some details I cant include if I wanted to, and the others there is no time or space for. Believe me, I am not some nieve teen, though I do respect and appreciate YOU and YOUR help.

 

I understand the point about being a man, and being strong, I do, it makes perfect sense.

 

 

1) ok, I do understand about giving her the space she needs, that is why I am being very careful with placement, pictures, and wording. This book is also going to be the medium wich I let her know about my plans to take her to europe. She needs to know that this is what I have been hiding, planning, and saving for.

 

2) I am going to go meet the mother soon, tonight even maybe, nobody responded to that part of my question, so I am just going with my head, not heart on this one.

 

 

P.S. - quickanne- not to proove a point for sure.

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guys and gals,

 

also, we all agree that she wants her time, and needs to think- well, I atleast want to give her all of the facts? right? so telling her about the europe trip as 'this is what I was doing, had planned, and was saving for' would be acceptable?

 

please referance above post.

 

thanks!

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YOU WRITE: "2) I am going to go meet the mother soon, tonight even maybe, nobody responded to that part of my question, so I am just going with my head, not heart on this one."

 

A few posts above, that's ALL I responded to. You don't want advice. You don't want to listen. You want to do what you want to do and that's OK. You are not obligated to follow any advice you get here. So why are you even asking for it if you already know what you're going to do.

 

No matter what we write, you are only going to see a fraction of what we write...unless somebody comes along and endorses your total plan. That you will pay 100 percent attention to.

 

Going to see mama tonight is a crazy idea. But I want you to do so and to learn over time just how it feels to be a first class fool. I know the feeling, I've been a fool more than just a few times. That's why it saddens me so to see somebody else doing the same sickening things I once did....except I never went quite to the extent that you are.

 

I guess if you're going to do something, you may as well do it all the way!!!

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tony,

 

I am sorry, I did not catch that you were responding to that part of my question, or the question at all. regardless, who cares if I am taking parts of advice, atleast I would be open to some. but this is not the case.

 

I am listening 100%, some stuff is hard to hear as I am sure you know. I listend so hard that I have abandoned all of my old plans and atleast revisied them- is that not a step in the right direction?

 

I am set on talking to the mom- she was once a confidant, and a second mother to me- so I need to regardless. THat is why I am so set on this bit. Can you give me your thoughts on this, and what might be the best way to approach the situation.

 

I was planning on comming at it like this:

 

"i would really like to talk to you- if you dont think so, please, do it for me, I am a young man trying to grow emotionaly and psycologicaly. I want to know why I became the antichrist in your eyes, someone to wage war with, someone to oppose. did you think I fell out of love with your daughter? "

 

 

something like that.

 

 

Also, tony, I would like your opinion on the second post above this one where I ask about telling her about the europe trip no matter the medium which it is conveyed- just the concept of telling her, and what it will mean, and change.

 

 

thank you,

giraffe

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it may be a good idea to talk to the mother, but only if you think you can handle the fact that it probably won't change your relationship w/ the girl

 

if she was truly like a 2nd mother to you, and you're not talking to her just to get her daughter back, then there isn't a real problem with that

 

just make sure you are ready for it and don't expect much. if you do it, do it for you to get some things off of your chest

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you're strange

 

u love her, right? and u think she loves u.

in that case, whats the big deal about giving her space?

let her be alone, think about her r/s with her mother, with you, whatever else. if she loves u, she'll come back to u. there's no need to make any cheesy albums - that's called emotional blackmail. when my ex tried to tell me he's gonna send me photocopies of whatever letters and cards I gave him by mail, i almost puked and said thank god i broke up with him.

 

she's young, she's in a difficult age, with a difficult family situation, so just leave her alone!!! she'll contant you if she feels like it.

 

its unfortunate that u spent time spanning the trip and u cant take her, but its just too bad. find another way to spend the money, or go on the trip with a buddy.

 

when someone is in love with you, there's no way in hell they'll break up with you, no matter what ANYONE says.

so just get the hell outta her life

no albums, no cheese

 

she asked for space - GIVE IT TO HER. if u love her, u'll do what she asked for.

 

best of luck,

-yes

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i personally would be outraged if a guy with whom i broke up met my mother behind my back. i would be seriously mad at the person as well as my mother, for agreeing to meet with him.

 

-yes

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it isnt behind her back- not one bit, she is gone on a trip right now with a friend.

 

I would tell her, but I am respecting her wishes and not talking to her. Everyone of her friends (3 people) know I am going to do it, I am not being secretive at all.

 

this make sense?

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Your ex will be mad as hell that you talked to her mother while she was on a trip with a friend.

 

There is nothing you can do that will be proper short of staying away from these people.

 

Wow, I'd like to be around in a few years when you realize how wacko all this is.

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tony, come on, give me some credit here-

 

if you noticed, above, she will be trhilled as all life when she sees that I have talked to her mom.

 

i quote her psycologyst when she says that would be the manly thing to do. why are you only looking at it like I am doing this out of desperation, with no thought behind my emotion?

 

this scrap book is nothing tacky, trust me- it was origionaly comcieved as my aniversary gift to her, and that is what I believe I will make it now- happy aniversary.

 

 

-giraffe

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how come u'r not mad at her at all?

aren't u mad she broke up with u?

aren't u mad she chose her mother and the psychologist over u?

it sounds like u'r forgetting that she had a mind of her own. nobody does anything for her.

 

just sink this in: NOBODY would EVER break up with someone they love. no matter what. no matter who they talk to.

 

anyway, this does sound pointless...

good luck to u,

-yes

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at her age, she cannot disown her mother, and cant run away from the pschologyst- so no, I am not mad. sure, there is a dependancy flaw with her mother, but I wont fault her for losing her father at age 10 infront of her ont he sidewalk to cancer.

 

 

if that is the case, then getting her to realize that this relationship is worth it, and good should be a goal that is out of reach? right? I dont think I am being nieve when I say this, "the love is there".

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